Goodbye, AvMap...

[Jay Honeck]

Well, we've now flown behind the Garmin 496 for 10 weeks, and around 20
flights, and we've decided that -- despite having an awful screen and a
slow processor -- we'll keep it. The fantastic benefits of having
on-board weather simply outweigh the painful truth that the 496
represents a bad compromise in an aviation GPS display.

We thought about keeping our favorite GPS -- the AvMap EKP-IIIC Gold --
on the copilot's yoke, but we've already got the Lowrance 2000c planted
there. The 2000c represents the best value in GPS today, with a screen
nearly as large as the AvMap's, at a fraction of the price. It's also
current technology and a current model, which means that it will be
supported (I hope!) by Lowrance for a while longer.

Thus, sadly, we've decided to sell the AvMap. If only those stupid
*******s at AvMap had come out with XM weather, like they promised at
OSH '05, we'd have kept the unit forever. It is still hand's down,
head & shoulders the finest moving map display I've seen in a portable
GPS -- it's a far better display than either the 2000c or the 496 --
and we hate to part with it. Buy I've simply got no use for it, now.

It's on Ebay right now. See it here, if you're interested:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W186264FD
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ross Richardson[_2_]]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Well, we've now flown behind the Garmin 496 for 10 weeks, and around 20
> flights, and we've decided that -- despite having an awful screen and a
> slow processor -- we'll keep it. The fantastic benefits of having
> on-board weather simply outweigh the painful truth that the 496
> represents a bad compromise in an aviation GPS display.
>
> We thought about keeping our favorite GPS -- the AvMap EKP-IIIC Gold --
> on the copilot's yoke, but we've already got the Lowrance 2000c planted
> there. The 2000c represents the best value in GPS today, with a screen
> nearly as large as the AvMap's, at a fraction of the price. It's also
> current technology and a current model, which means that it will be
> supported (I hope!) by Lowrance for a while longer.
>
> Thus, sadly, we've decided to sell the AvMap. If only those stupid
> *******s at AvMap had come out with XM weather, like they promised at
> OSH '05, we'd have kept the unit forever. It is still hand's down,
> head & shoulders the finest moving map display I've seen in a portable
> GPS -- it's a far better display than either the 2000c or the 496 --
> and we hate to part with it. Buy I've simply got no use for it, now.
>
> It's on Ebay right now. See it here, if you're interested:
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?W186264FD
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
What do you think the reoccuring cost for the 496 is going to be to keep
the weather, database, etc?

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Dave Butler[_1_]]

Ross Richardson wrote:

> What do you think the reoccuring cost for the 496 is going to be to keep
> the weather, database, etc?

Google for my contribution to the thread "Garmin 396 vs 496" just a few
days ago.

Dave

[Jay Honeck]

> What do you think the reoccuring cost for the 496 is going to be to keep
> the weather, database, etc?

$50 per month for weather, unless we downgrade to the $30/month version
over the winter.

We'll probably update the other databases at OSH every year.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> 496 and a slow processor? Garmin are making a big deal out of it being
> 5x faster screen update etc.

I know. I simply can't imagine flying behind a 396, if these claims
are true.

What Garmin doesn't tell you is this: The re-draw rate as you fly
along is fine. Nothing to write home about, but okay. But just try to
skew your cursor ahead of your route, to check out the weather!

Here's how it goes:

Skew...cursor disappears....screen goes blank...count to 3....cursor
reappears....screen reappears....cursor disappears....screen
disappears...count to 3...ad nauseum...

Your only other option is to zoom out far enough to see your route of
flight -- but then most of the reporting stations disappear, because
the screen is so dinky! (If it didn't declutter, it would be one blob
of triangles...)

Your only hope at that point is to move your cursor to where you THINK
the next reporting station ought to be, and zoom back in, hoping that
you're pretty close. THEN you can check the weather -- IF you guessed
right. If you guessed wrong, start skewing...or zoom back out and
guess again.

We find ourselves simply not checking the weather ahead, cuz it's so
clumsy to use. It's ridiculous, and it's not what I expected in a
unit that cost almost $3000.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mike Spera]

Jay still commenting about the slow slew rate of his new Garmin 496:
> Skew...cursor disappears....screen goes blank...count to 3....cursor
> reappears....screen reappears....cursor disappears....screen
> disappears...count to 3...ad nauseum...
>

The 396 is about the same. I don't believe the faster refresh rate of
the 496 makes this any better. The faster refresh appears to be mainly
limited to the updates of the rotation of the map as you turn and the
faster response of the little airplane in the turn coordinator on the
panel page. Scrolling and slewing around appear to be about the same
(delay) in both units. However, I tried them at different times. If
anyone has both models in the same place at the same time to test please
report back to the group if there is a significant difference.

I will say that I only get the blank screen and wait when I move the
cursor initially just a little. After I have the redrawn screen, I can
slide around that screen without any more blanking provided I stay on
that screen. Once I slide off the screen it goes into the blank out mode
again.

Jay, is that what yours does?

Mike

[Thomas Borchert]

Peter,

> have been trying hard to establish the 396 v 496 difference, for
> European use where there is no airborne weather. Unfortunately none of
> the vendors I spoke to seems to know anything about it (they aren't
> pilots, for a start).
>

Didn't we speak about this extensively? You didn't give the impression
that you were still lacking any information. If so, ask away.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Peter,

> I have been trying hard to establish the 396 v 496 difference, for
> European use where there is no airborne weather.
>

Oh, the key thing with regard to this is, of course: There is no
European version of the 396. Simple as that. The 496, however, is
available in a version without weather. But, as I told you before, the
unit that really fits your mission description 100 percent is the
Lowrance Airmap 600c, or the 2000c.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jay Honeck]

> The Avmap EKP IV seems nicer (big screen for a start) but even fewer
> people here know anything about it.

Isn't that odd? AvMap is a European product.

Here's my take: If you can't get weather on the 496 in Europe, run --
don't walk -- to the AvMap IV instead.

It is head and shoulders, 1000 times better at being a GPS than the
496.

If only AvMap would overlay XM weather on that beautiful screen! My
496 would be on Ebay in 10 seconds...

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I will say that I only get the blank screen and wait when I move the
> cursor initially just a little. After I have the redrawn screen, I can
> slide around that screen without any more blanking provided I stay on
> that screen. Once I slide off the screen it goes into the blank out mode
> again.
>
> Jay, is that what yours does?

Yes, it works that way -- provided you stay on that screen. When I'm
on a long cross country flight, however -- say, from Iowa to Michigan
-- and I want to check current weather at my destination, that's gonna
require slewing (not skewing -- d'oh!) "across" several screens.

Cursor disappear...screen goes blank...count to 3....screen reappears,
slew across tiny little 3-inch screen...cursor disappears...screen goes
blank....count to 3....

Or you can zoom out, reposition the cursor, and zoom back in, hoping
that you've placed your cursor in approximately the right spot. If
not, zoom out, and try again! (Or slew...)

As long as you're not on a cross country flight, and the weather isn't
a factor, this design flaw never comes into play. Of course, that's
precisely when you need and want the weather most, is when you're on a
long cross country flight...

I may have already said this, but the 496 is an outstanding automotive
tool, by the way. We used it again the other day to find an obscure
address in a tiny town in a different state -- and "Bitchin' Betty"
directed me right into the driveway. It's an incredible tool.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mike Spera]

> .stuff snipped
> Yes, it works that way -- provided you stay on that screen.
> .stuff snipped
> I may have already said this, but the 496 is an outstanding automotive
> tool, by the way.

I guess the engineers figured you would only want to "look ahead" no
farther than the current screen. This was a bit of a chore on the last
somewhat challenging cross country. I was zoomed in to see obstructions
like antennas (cuz we were at 1200' AGL) and the weather ahead was
changing through the entire 2.5 hour flight. I zoomed out rather than
wait for 3 or 4 "blank out - refresh" cycles. The number of steps and
total time to get there was about the same though. Since I was only
concerned about the radar ahead and not the Metars/Tafs, I would
sometimes switch to the Nexrad page (push menu twice to see the menu
view - once you selected weather, nexrad, and had zoomed to the right
level, the unit defaulted to it with the next double push of the menu
button). You could accomplish the same thing by zooming out the gps
page, but the other way gives you a North up view that helped me keep my
mental "picture" aligned as far as where the rain was forming and headed.

I am still wrestling with the auto kit. As I said in an earlier rant...
er, posting, I am still leery about hauling around a $2300+ dollar GPS
in the car. It appears the Sony unit will do well for $499. Considering
the small delta between a fully blown complete auto GPS and just the 396
kit, I am still leaning towards buying a "dedicated" auto unit. Another
plus is that I can leave both units hooked up and don't have to swap.
The auto units have touch screens that are WAY easier to enter in names
and addresses. Menu navigation is way faster than these aviation units
with their button sequences for everything.

A consultant who works for me has had a Magellan 700 hanging off one of
his air vents for years and nobody has ever bothered it. He parks
everywhere (O'Hare remote parking, city streets - Wrigley Field,
downtown Chicago, Baltimore, Toronto, etc). I would think these units
would be perfect for smash and grab thieves. They plug into the cig
lighter and have a "hook" that keeps them in the air vent. 10 seconds
max time to steal.

Not sure if this guy is just lucky or the thieves don't know what they
are worth or don't have a market to sell them (the people who buy stolen
stuff from thieves don't know what a GPS is or what they are used for????).

Anyway, I'm still thinkin'. Anyone have a recommendation for an auto
GPS? I prefer an older used unit that works well. Like I said the
Magellan 700 my consultant has seems just fine. It took me about 10
seconds to figure out how to use it.

Thanks,
Mike