Cost of owning a Diamond DA40, new vs 5-6 years old

[[email protected]]

Any DA40 owners here ?

Assume one flies 100-150 hours/year, how much is the annual cost
associated with
owning a new DA40 ?

What about a 5-6 years 2nd hand one ?

I don't own business and have no way of writting off any of the costs.

Thanks in advance.

P S

[Peter R.]

> wrote:

> What about a 5-6 years 2nd hand one ?
>
> I don't own business and have no way of writting off any of the costs.

Responding here as a one time owner of new and used small aircraft, I would
look to purchase a used aircraft rather than a new one, especially in the
case where one is unable to write off the large depreciation expense.

In my experience, new single-engine aircraft these days are just like new
automobiles. Fly them off the showroom floor and the damn things
depreciate 20 percent that instant. Wait another year and resale value
falls even more. Perhaps not so dramatically, but it is a significant
expense that outweighs the protection of a new airplane warranty. But
that is only one man's opinion...


--
Peter

[[email protected]]

Peter R. wrote:
> > wrote:
>
> > What about a 5-6 years 2nd hand one ?
> >
> > I don't own business and have no way of writting off any of the costs.
>
> Responding here as a one time owner of new and used small aircraft, I would
> look to purchase a used aircraft rather than a new one, especially in the
> case where one is unable to write off the large depreciation expense.
>
> In my experience, new single-engine aircraft these days are just like new
> automobiles. Fly them off the showroom floor and the damn things
> depreciate 20 percent that instant. Wait another year and resale value
> falls even more. Perhaps not so dramatically, but it is a significant
> expense that outweighs the protection of a new airplane warranty. But
> that is only one man's opinion...
>
>
> --
> Peter

Indeed. There is a clifff on the price trend. It falls off quite
steeply in 5-6
years. Which is why I'm staring at the 5-6 year old planes.

A new one does give one the assurance that no one has buried
any fatigues in the structure. Only issue is I'm sensitive to both the
initial and the ongoing costs.

P S

[Steve C]

I have a 2001 Star, which I purchased new 5 years ago. As others have
noted, there is a big depreciation on new airplanes. On the other hand,
new Diamonds come with a 2 year warranty. I spent zero on repairs
during the first two years (and very little since then).

You can calculate your own expenses such as debt service, hangar or
tiedown. Figure 9 gal/hr fuel burn. Insurance is relatively
inexpensive, as there is a good loss experience with Diamonds.

All the new Stars are G1000 equipped and run close to $300K. The older
Garmin or Bendix King equipped models are lots cheaper.

Steve


wrote:
> Any DA40 owners here ?
>
> Assume one flies 100-150 hours/year, how much is the annual cost
> associated with
> owning a new DA40 ?
>
> What about a 5-6 years 2nd hand one ?
>
> I don't own business and have no way of writting off any of the costs.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> P S

[[email protected]]

Nothing major to fix for the first 5 years. What a luxury. For the
last 3 years,
how much did the annuals cost ?

I actually don't care much about the G1000 panel. I can live with it,
but don't
feel a loss with anything else. In this respect, the 5-6 years old
planes are
not any less desirable.

Steve C wrote:
> I have a 2001 Star, which I purchased new 5 years ago. As others have
> noted, there is a big depreciation on new airplanes. On the other hand,
> new Diamonds come with a 2 year warranty. I spent zero on repairs
> during the first two years (and very little since then).
>
> You can calculate your own expenses such as debt service, hangar or
> tiedown. Figure 9 gal/hr fuel burn. Insurance is relatively
> inexpensive, as there is a good loss experience with Diamonds.
>
> All the new Stars are G1000 equipped and run close to $300K. The older
> Garmin or Bendix King equipped models are lots cheaper.
>
> Steve
>
>
> wrote:
> > Any DA40 owners here ?
> >
> > Assume one flies 100-150 hours/year, how much is the annual cost
> > associated with
> > owning a new DA40 ?
> >
> > What about a 5-6 years 2nd hand one ?
> >
> > I don't own business and have no way of writting off any of the costs.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > P S

[Steve C]

wrote:

> how much did the annuals cost ?

About $450 per. I do owner assisted annuals, my IA charges $300 for the
inspection. Other Star owners report about $1800 for an annual, without
the owner assist. It is a relatively easy airplane to work on, no
corrosion issues to deal with because of the composite structure. There
are currently NO ADs on the DA40 airframe. There is one recurring AD
inspection on all Lycoming fuel injected engines, including the
IO360-M1A in the Star.

One issue with the non-G1000 airframes is future resale value. If you
plan to keep the airplane for a while, the steam gauge version is a
'best buy'.

Steve

[[email protected]]

Peter wrote:
> wrote
>
> >Nothing major to fix for the first 5 years. What a luxury.
>
> Not unusual. I bought a new Socata TB20 in 2002; spent nothing in the
> first two years and spent close to nothing since.
>
> The warranty bill was massive though; about US$100k of mostly American
> (Honeywell) avionics had to be replaced...
>
> I firmly expect to spend close to nothing for another 5-10 years.
> Then, airframe parts will start to go.
>
> I firmly believe that every penny saved by buying an old airplane is
> returned, plus hassle, in the form of extra maintenance costs.

This is a very interesting statement. I bet it is especially true to
owners whos hourly earning rates are above the usual range :-).

>
> It's not like cars, which tend to be very reliable nowadays all the
> way through their life, and start to cost big money only when they
> start to rust right through, and that takes ~ 15 years on most of the
> decent types (here in Europe, anyway); BMW, Honda, Toyota, etc. By
> that time the car is worth close to zero anyway; in fact it's worth
> close to zero (say less than 10% of its purchase price) a long before
> then. I bought a 10 year old Toyota last year and expect to get 10
> more out of it. Cars are not a valid comparison, IMHO.
>
> The DA40 seems to be largely problem free - except for the Thielert
> diesel engines which have a long history of troubles and it isn't
> apparent that this is sorted, but as an American you are probably not
> looking at that version.

Yes. I try to stay alive first, then worry about the environment :-).

[ChrisJ]

Any DA40 owners here ?

Assume one flies 100-150 hours/year, how much is the annual cost associated with owning a new DA40 ?

What about a 5-6 years 2nd hand one ?

I don't own business and have no way of writing off any of the costs.

Thanks in advance.

P S

We own a 2007 DA40-XL, currently at about 450 TT, and have found the maintenance costs to be quite reasonable. Basically zero cost while it was still under warranty. Since the warranty expired, we've had to replace a failed starter (roughly $1000 incl labor) and chose to update the G1000 firmware twice for nominal costs. IIRC, annuals have come in under $3000 each.

Estimating monthly fixed recurring costs for our bird, not including hangar charges or fuel:

XM Weather for G1000: $50
Oil changes and minor maintenance: ~$100
Insurance: ~$70
Annual reserve: $250

For older planes, you may be facing rudder cable replacement (mandatory after five years, IIRC). Other than being closer to TBO times and required services such as the rudder cable replacement, I don't think there's a substantial increase in maintenance costs associated with an oldler DA40. Of course, with any plane you need to be prepared for significant unintended service costs. One DA40 owner in Australia recently had to replace his composite prop after landing on a remote strip (in the middle of the Outback) and finding that a rock had shattered the prop tip upon landing.

One benefit to newer models is that ADs and MSBs are less likely to apply and you may have updated versions of some components such as the electric fuel pump which was prone to fail on the earlier models.

You can find a lot more Diamond owners and information on costs on the diamond-specific forums (e.g. diamondaviators dot net).

[MarkIV]

Any DA40 owners here ?

Assume one flies 100-150 hours/year, how much is the annual cost
associated with owning a new DA40 ? What about a 5-6 years 2nd hand one ?

I don't own business and have no way of writting off any of the costs.

I wouldn't own a Diamond when there are electric airplanes you should buy. If you can't run your own business (I install solar panels of a secret kind)then you should rethink buying any airplane.

Most people are unable to see beyond today. Yes gravity isn't a factor. But people are flying electric planes today. That's real. Billions are being spent on a better power technology...and I believe they're going to make it and when they do...I will retrofit a plane such as one that currently is an LSA. I don't care that the plane is illegal.

http://gayincarolina.jottit.com/mark%27s_baby_pic_!!

[stevebucknor1]

I would look to purchase a used aircraft rather than a new one, especially in the case where one is unable to write off the large depreciation expense. I actually don't care much about the G1000 panel. I can live with it,but don't feel a loss with anything else.