Dual glide slope, $95...priceless!

[Jack Allison[_1_]]

It's funny how anything less than $100 seems cheap when it comes to
fixing something on an airplane (especially when it's your own
airplane). Hmmm, must be because after the inevitable $1000+ repairs,
anything less than $100 seems like chump change. Go figure.

When we bought the Arrow, one thought I had when looking at pictures of
the panel was "Cool, dual glide slopes!"...only to later discover that
the glide slope in the #2 nav head didn't work. I don't recall if we
were told or if we surmised that we may not have a glide slope receiver
for the #2 nav. After just now poking around a bit on the web, I've
learned that our nav radios have built in glide slope receivers.

We had the plane at the avionics shop to get the VORs tuned since it's
never good when the #1 VOR indicates six degrees left of course when the
#2 VOR indicates (correctly) that you're on course. It turns out this
was an easy fix for the avionics guys. While doing the work, they
informed us that we do indeed have a glide slope receiver on the #2 nav
and that the problem can likely be fixed for an hour of labor ($95). We
authorize the hour for diagnosis and the problem turned out to be a few
recessed pins in a connector. The end result? We now have a functional
#2 glide slope and it only cost us $95...ah, life is good. Compared to a
rough estimate of $1700 to buy/install a second glide slope receiver,
the $95 option is...well...chump change.

Of course, now we *need* to go test fly the plane. Like I said, life is
good! :-)

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[NW_Pilot]

"Jack Allison" > wrote in message
...
> It's funny how anything less than $100 seems cheap when it comes to fixing
> something on an airplane (especially when it's your own airplane). Hmmm,
> must be because after the inevitable $1000+ repairs, anything less than
> $100 seems like chump change. Go figure.
>
> When we bought the Arrow, one thought I had when looking at pictures of
> the panel was "Cool, dual glide slopes!"...only to later discover that the
> glide slope in the #2 nav head didn't work. I don't recall if we were told
> or if we surmised that we may not have a glide slope receiver for the #2
> nav. After just now poking around a bit on the web, I've learned that our
> nav radios have built in glide slope receivers.
>
> We had the plane at the avionics shop to get the VORs tuned since it's
> never good when the #1 VOR indicates six degrees left of course when the
> #2 VOR indicates (correctly) that you're on course. It turns out this was
> an easy fix for the avionics guys. While doing the work, they informed us
> that we do indeed have a glide slope receiver on the #2 nav and that the
> problem can likely be fixed for an hour of labor ($95). We authorize the
> hour for diagnosis and the problem turned out to be a few recessed pins in
> a connector. The end result? We now have a functional #2 glide slope and
> it only cost us $95...ah, life is good. Compared to a rough estimate of
> $1700 to buy/install a second glide slope receiver, the $95 option
> is...well...chump change.
>
> Of course, now we *need* to go test fly the plane. Like I said, life is
> good! :-)
>
> --
> Jack Allison
> PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
>
> "To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
> a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
> - Rod Machado
>
> (Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)


I like then days!!!!

[Jon Kraus]

and don't forget, that is $95 divided by three! Partnerships can be a
very good thing... We are looking for a # 3 as well.. We'll see...



Jack Allison wrote:
> It's funny how anything less than $100 seems cheap when it comes to
> fixing something on an airplane (especially when it's your own
> airplane). Hmmm, must be because after the inevitable $1000+ repairs,
> anything less than $100 seems like chump change. Go figure.
>
> When we bought the Arrow, one thought I had when looking at pictures of
> the panel was "Cool, dual glide slopes!"...only to later discover that
> the glide slope in the #2 nav head didn't work. I don't recall if we
> were told or if we surmised that we may not have a glide slope receiver
> for the #2 nav. After just now poking around a bit on the web, I've
> learned that our nav radios have built in glide slope receivers.
>
> We had the plane at the avionics shop to get the VORs tuned since it's
> never good when the #1 VOR indicates six degrees left of course when the
> #2 VOR indicates (correctly) that you're on course. It turns out this
> was an easy fix for the avionics guys. While doing the work, they
> informed us that we do indeed have a glide slope receiver on the #2 nav
> and that the problem can likely be fixed for an hour of labor ($95). We
> authorize the hour for diagnosis and the problem turned out to be a few
> recessed pins in a connector. The end result? We now have a functional
> #2 glide slope and it only cost us $95...ah, life is good. Compared to a
> rough estimate of $1700 to buy/install a second glide slope receiver,
> the $95 option is...well...chump change.
>
> Of course, now we *need* to go test fly the plane. Like I said, life is
> good! :-)
>

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Jack,
I've got the same problem with our #1 glideslope. Do you know if they
pulled the recessed pins and replaced them? or did they simply push the pins
back in place?
Thanks,
Jim

[Mark Hansen]

Jack,

Great to hear! Also glad to hear you got that VOR problem resolved ;-)

By the way, our club now owns a brand new 172SP with the G1000!
I don't think I'm going to be flying it thought, but it sure looks nice!
I think the hourly rate is going to be something like $115 wet.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Robert M. Gary]

The older VOR heads (the ones fed by the KX-170B style, not the KX-155
style) can be relied upon to be 6 degrees off every couple of months.
Although technically an avionics shop needs to do the adjustment most
owners puchase the spline screwdriver and do the adjustment themselves.
You simply remove the OBS knob (via set screw) and there adjustment
screw is behind it. Usually I do it as MHR or SAC where you have a VOT.

-Robert


Jack Allison wrote:
> It's funny how anything less than $100 seems cheap when it comes to
> fixing something on an airplane (especially when it's your own
> airplane). Hmmm, must be because after the inevitable $1000+ repairs,
> anything less than $100 seems like chump change. Go figure.
>
> When we bought the Arrow, one thought I had when looking at pictures of
> the panel was "Cool, dual glide slopes!"...only to later discover that
> the glide slope in the #2 nav head didn't work. I don't recall if we
> were told or if we surmised that we may not have a glide slope receiver
> for the #2 nav. After just now poking around a bit on the web, I've
> learned that our nav radios have built in glide slope receivers.
>
> We had the plane at the avionics shop to get the VORs tuned since it's
> never good when the #1 VOR indicates six degrees left of course when the
> #2 VOR indicates (correctly) that you're on course. It turns out this
> was an easy fix for the avionics guys. While doing the work, they
> informed us that we do indeed have a glide slope receiver on the #2 nav
> and that the problem can likely be fixed for an hour of labor ($95). We
> authorize the hour for diagnosis and the problem turned out to be a few
> recessed pins in a connector. The end result? We now have a functional
> #2 glide slope and it only cost us $95...ah, life is good. Compared to a
> rough estimate of $1700 to buy/install a second glide slope receiver,
> the $95 option is...well...chump change.
>
> Of course, now we *need* to go test fly the plane. Like I said, life is
> good! :-)
>
> --
> Jack Allison
> PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
>
> "To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
> a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
> - Rod Machado
>
> (Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Robert M. Gary]

Mark Hansen wrote:
> Jack,
>
> Great to hear! Also glad to hear you got that VOR problem resolved ;-)
>
> By the way, our club now owns a brand new 172SP with the G1000!
> I don't think I'm going to be flying it thought, but it sure looks nice!
> I think the hourly rate is going to be something like $115 wet.

That's awesome! They're charging about that same price for old 172's at
Exec.

-Robert

[Mark Hansen]

On 10/20/06 07:39, Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Mark Hansen wrote:
>> Jack,
>>
>> Great to hear! Also glad to hear you got that VOR problem resolved ;-)
>>
>> By the way, our club now owns a brand new 172SP with the G1000!
>> I don't think I'm going to be flying it thought, but it sure looks nice!
>> I think the hourly rate is going to be something like $115 wet.
>
> That's awesome! They're charging about that same price for old 172's at
> Exec.

That's right. I did most of my training at SkyWalk, which was charging over
$100 for a 70's-era 172 with a GNS 430. I"m sure the prices are much higher
now. I tried to look at their rates online, but the site is broken ;-(

I love the club - not just the wet rate, but the insurance that is included
as well.

>
> -Robert
>



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Ben Jackson]

On 2006-10-20, Jack Allison > wrote:
> The end result? We now have a functional
> #2 glide slope and it only cost us $95...

That's awesome! Now you can fly two ILSs at once!!

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Robert M. Gary]

Mark Hansen wrote:
> On 10/20/06 07:39, Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > Mark Hansen wrote:
> >> Jack,
> >>
> >> Great to hear! Also glad to hear you got that VOR problem resolved ;-)
> >>
> >> By the way, our club now owns a brand new 172SP with the G1000!
> >> I don't think I'm going to be flying it thought, but it sure looks nice!
> >> I think the hourly rate is going to be something like $115 wet.
> >
> > That's awesome! They're charging about that same price for old 172's at
> > Exec.
>
> That's right. I did most of my training at SkyWalk, which was charging over
> $100 for a 70's-era 172 with a GNS 430. I"m sure the prices are much higher
> now. I tried to look at their rates online, but the site is broken ;-(
>
> I love the club - not just the wet rate, but the insurance that is included
> as well.

Too bad I"m on the wrong side of town. Davis is a long drive from
Folsom ;(

-Robert

[Mark Hansen]

On 10/20/06 13:08, Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Mark Hansen wrote:
>> On 10/20/06 07:39, Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> > Mark Hansen wrote:
>> >> Jack,
>> >>
>> >> Great to hear! Also glad to hear you got that VOR problem resolved ;-)
>> >>
>> >> By the way, our club now owns a brand new 172SP with the G1000!
>> >> I don't think I'm going to be flying it thought, but it sure looks nice!
>> >> I think the hourly rate is going to be something like $115 wet.
>> >
>> > That's awesome! They're charging about that same price for old 172's at
>> > Exec.
>>
>> That's right. I did most of my training at SkyWalk, which was charging over
>> $100 for a 70's-era 172 with a GNS 430. I"m sure the prices are much higher
>> now. I tried to look at their rates online, but the site is broken ;-(
>>
>> I love the club - not just the wet rate, but the insurance that is included
>> as well.
>
> Too bad I"m on the wrong side of town. Davis is a long drive from
> Folsom ;(

You don't really need to rent anyway, do you? On the other hand, if all
you want is access to a G1000-equipped airplane, the monthly dues for
the club are only $20 (although you have to maintain flight currency
in type at least every two months).

I can just imagine you flying to Davis to pick up the G1000 and go
fly it around :-)

Davis is about a 30 minute drive for me, so it's not too bad. Now the
smell of the cows ... that's another issue all together! ;-)
I'm a city boy, after all.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Robert M. Gary]

Mark Hansen wrote:
> On 10/20/06 13:08, Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > Mark Hansen wrote:
> You don't really need to rent anyway, do you? On the other hand, if all
> you want is access to a G1000-equipped airplane, the monthly dues for
> the club are only $20 (although you have to maintain flight currency
> in type at least every two months).

No, but the G1000 rate is great. I also rent and sometimes instruct in
a G1000 182 at Executive. I really like the system but I still consider
my Mooney to be a more capable family travel machine than the G1000
182, mostly because of the speed difference. Its amazing to be pulling
13GPH and just keeping up with the traffic on the freeway in the 182.
;)
Sadly the Mooney is now at Cameron Park and I'm afraid to fly it
because of some very strange recently fuel problems. I'm getting
different information all over the place. Before I spend $2000 to
overhaul a 600 hour fuel servo I want to look into it more. Owning a
plane, just managing maintenance, is a full time job.

-Robert

[Mark Hansen]

On 10/20/06 14:53, Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Mark Hansen wrote:
>> On 10/20/06 13:08, Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> > Mark Hansen wrote:
>> You don't really need to rent anyway, do you? On the other hand, if all
>> you want is access to a G1000-equipped airplane, the monthly dues for
>> the club are only $20 (although you have to maintain flight currency
>> in type at least every two months).
>
> No, but the G1000 rate is great. I also rent and sometimes instruct in
> a G1000 182 at Executive. I really like the system but I still consider
> my Mooney to be a more capable family travel machine than the G1000
> 182, mostly because of the speed difference. Its amazing to be pulling
> 13GPH and just keeping up with the traffic on the freeway in the 182.
> ;)

Yes, I almost bought into a Mooney partnership, but just couldn't fit
into the cockpit ;-(

Of course, most of my flying is just training and practice at this
point, so a (relatively) cheap Cessna is just fine. I'm not considering
long distance travel until later. Perhaps by then I'll fit ;-)


> Sadly the Mooney is now at Cameron Park and I'm afraid to fly it
> because of some very strange recently fuel problems. I'm getting
> different information all over the place. Before I spend $2000 to
> overhaul a 600 hour fuel servo I want to look into it more. Owning a
> plane, just managing maintenance, is a full time job.

Yeah, I've been following the posts. Sorry to hear that, and I hope
it doesn't work out too badly for you.

Best of luck.

[Jack Allison[_1_]]

Jim Burns wrote:
> Jack,
> I've got the same problem with our #1 glideslope. Do you know if they
> pulled the recessed pins and replaced them? or did they simply push the pins
> back in place?
> Thanks,
> Jim

Not sure Jim as one of my partners was dealing with the avionics shop on
this one. I'm unfamiliar with the type of connector involved so am not
sure what is possible in terms of pushing pins back in place vs. replacing.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison[_1_]]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> and don't forget, that is $95 divided by three! Partnerships can be a
> very good thing... We are looking for a # 3 as well.. We'll see...
>
Do you have a new prospective #3 or is it still the same guy? Either
way, I hope it works out for the best.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison[_1_]]

Mark Hansen wrote:

> Great to hear! Also glad to hear you got that VOR problem resolved ;-)
Yeah, me too. Turns out one partner was working with ATC to have them
tell him when he was on a given airway. #2 nav said dead on, #1 nav
showed six degrees left of course. Gee, didn't we just see that
recently? :-)

>
> By the way, our club now owns a brand new 172SP with the G1000!
> I don't think I'm going to be flying it thought, but it sure looks nice!
> I think the hourly rate is going to be something like $115 wet.
>

IIRC, my brother pays something like $112/hr. wet for a non glass 172SP
at KRHV. $115 wet for the G1000 172 sounds pretty reasonable...but,
yeah, I hear you. At some point, I'd like to get a couple hours in
something with a glass panel...no big hurry though.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison[_1_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> The older VOR heads (the ones fed by the KX-170B style, not the KX-155
> style) can be relied upon to be 6 degrees off every couple of months.

The one that was off is a newer Garmin, installed along with the GNS430
by the previous owner. While I haven't checked the logs on this, I'd
bet it hasn't been tuned since then. During the first 1.5 years of
ownership, both VORs were never more than +/- one degree.

> Although technically an avionics shop needs to do the adjustment most
> owners puchase the spline screwdriver and do the adjustment themselves.
> You simply remove the OBS knob (via set screw) and there adjustment
> screw is behind it. Usually I do it as MHR or SAC where you have a VOT.

Hmmm, interesting...not something that gets logged I'd bet :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison[_1_]]

Ben Jackson wrote:
>
> That's awesome! Now you can fly two ILSs at once!!
>
That or divide DH by 2, right? :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[RST Engineering]

Jack, you are going to be in the position of the guy with two wris****ches.
He's never sure exactly what time it is.



"Jack Allison" > wrote in message
. ..


>> Although technically an avionics shop needs to do the adjustment most
>> owners puchase the spline screwdriver and do the adjustment themselves.
>> You simply remove the OBS knob (via set screw) and there adjustment
>> screw is behind it. Usually I do it as MHR or SAC where you have a VOT.

Yes, and that setscrew is a SPLINE, and a little tiny bugger at that. It
takes the smallest spline in my toolbox to get it off. The screwdriver
needs to be a small long shaft as well...I've got an old footlong
eighth-inch fiberglass "TV Tuner adjuster" that works for me.



>
> Hmmm, interesting...not something that gets logged I'd bet :-)

Log? You keep a LOG?????

{;-)

Jim

[Jack Allison[_1_]]

RST Engineering wrote:
> Jack, you are going to be in the position of the guy with two wris****ches.
> He's never sure exactly what time it is.

LOL..."Ok we're above glide slope, no below glide slope, left of course,
on course...aw heck, average everything out between the two glide slopes
and localizers"

> Yes, and that setscrew is a SPLINE, and a little tiny bugger at that. It
> takes the smallest spline in my toolbox to get it off. The screwdriver
> needs to be a small long shaft as well...I've got an old footlong
> eighth-inch fiberglass "TV Tuner adjuster" that works for me.

Sounds like I need to get me one of those...um...for...er...when I need
to tune my TV :-)

>> Hmmm, interesting...not something that gets logged I'd bet :-)
>
> Log? You keep a LOG?????

Well, yeah, gotta have some place to put those expensive stickers the
shops type up for us...on those occasions where we opt to have them work
on the plane that is :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Robert M. Gary]

Jack Allison wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > The older VOR heads (the ones fed by the KX-170B style, not the KX-155
> > style) can be relied upon to be 6 degrees off every couple of months.
>
> The one that was off is a newer Garmin, installed along with the GNS430
> by the previous owner. While I haven't checked the logs on this, I'd
> bet it hasn't been tuned since then. During the first 1.5 years of
> ownership, both VORs were never more than +/- one degree.

Interesting, those are normally highly accurate. I also have two
glideslopes. I always tell myself I should set both but almost always
forget. Even when I do set it, I tend to forget to look at the #2.
However, I do take careful note of the FAF altitude as a GS
verification.

-Robert