Wind

[Guy Elden Jr]

Today is without a doubt the windiest day we've seen up here in the
northeast in quite a few months... METARs all around NYC are reporting
anywhere from 15 - 25 kts, gusting anywhere from 30 - 40 kts. Some of
the spreads between standing winds and gusts are around 20 - 25 kts, so
a typical C-172 pilot would have to adjust approach speed by around 10
- 13 kts using the half gust factor method.

Me personally, today is a day I stay nice and safely on the ground. Yet
I've noticed a lot of PIREPs in the vicinity - C-172s, Mooneys, etc,
reporting low-level windshear, urgent pireps for moderate to severe
turbulence, and one guy even reported he whacked his head in some bumps
at 6000 feet:

PIREP 15:57Z 10/29/06
ABE UUA /OV FJC360010/TM 1557/FL060/TP M20P/TB SVR/RM HIT HEAD ON
CIELING

My question to you all: why would anyone in a spam can even attempt
flight on a day like this?

--
Guy

[Peter R.]

Guy Elden Jr > wrote:

> My question to you all: why would anyone in a spam can even attempt
> flight on a day like this?

IMO, it all comes down to one's comfort level and experience. Personally,
I would fly in today's winds if I needed to go somewhere and weren't
carrying an experienced passenger. Additionally, I would also consider
launching today simply for the practice if family commitments didn't
compete.

However, this comfort level comes from commuting weekly across NY State in
my Bonanza since early last year. While today's winds were forecasted a
few days ago and are of no surprise to us here, I have encountered several
flights where the winds at the destination airport were much stronger than
forecasted.

One such flight occurred last spring while flying into Buffalo, NY. Winds
were forecasted 15G25, but when approach began vectoring my aircraft for
the ILS, the winds picked up to 30G45 with wind shear of +/-20 kts reported
at 1,500agl (this was NOT due to a nearby t-storm, which is a completely
different animal). I continued the flight and landed without incident,
although that was the first time an astute lineman actually directed me to
park into the wind, rather than on the line.

With this, though, I also understand why many wouldn't fly today and I
certainly respect that choice.

--
Peter

[Matt Whiting]

Peter R. wrote:
> Guy Elden Jr > wrote:
>
>
>>My question to you all: why would anyone in a spam can even attempt
>>flight on a day like this?
>
>
> IMO, it all comes down to one's comfort level and experience. Personally,
> I would fly in today's winds if I needed to go somewhere and weren't
> carrying an experienced passenger. Additionally, I would also consider
> launching today simply for the practice if family commitments didn't
> compete.
>
> However, this comfort level comes from commuting weekly across NY State in
> my Bonanza since early last year. While today's winds were forecasted a
> few days ago and are of no surprise to us here, I have encountered several
> flights where the winds at the destination airport were much stronger than
> forecasted.
>
> One such flight occurred last spring while flying into Buffalo, NY. Winds
> were forecasted 15G25, but when approach began vectoring my aircraft for
> the ILS, the winds picked up to 30G45 with wind shear of +/-20 kts reported
> at 1,500agl (this was NOT due to a nearby t-storm, which is a completely
> different animal). I continued the flight and landed without incident,
> although that was the first time an astute lineman actually directed me to
> park into the wind, rather than on the line.
>
> With this, though, I also understand why many wouldn't fly today and I
> certainly respect that choice.
>

Same here. I flew my Skylane several times in similar winds. I took my
instrument flight ride on a day much like this. 15-25K on the ground
and 40K at 6,000 ft. It took me three circuits to really get the hold
established, but the DE said that was find given the wind and
turbulence. Flying partial panel was a challenge that day, but I think
the DE was reasonable given the conditions.

I landed at ELM one night after a flight from Roanoke when the wind on
the ground was 30K. I didn't dare leave the airplane until the line
crew came out and tied me down. They heard me coming in and were
waiting for me. I was going to call in for help, but they were savvy
enough to know I couldn't exit the airplane on those conditions.
Taxiing crosswind was a little bit dicey, but the Skylane handled in
pretty well. That was the only time I've ever hit a 45 degree bank
angle on the ILS!

I had a colleage from work along, but fortunately he's a very
experienced flier. I still was afraid he might get sick as the
turbulence was in the severe category. There were moments when we were
moving so fast that I could not read the instruments. And tuning the
radio was challenging to say the least.


Matt

[Judah]

"Guy Elden Jr" > wrote in news:1162142286.380093.150600
@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> Today is without a doubt the windiest day we've seen up here in the
> northeast in quite a few months... METARs all around NYC are reporting
> anywhere from 15 - 25 kts, gusting anywhere from 30 - 40 kts. Some of
> the spreads between standing winds and gusts are around 20 - 25 kts, so
> a typical C-172 pilot would have to adjust approach speed by around 10
> - 13 kts using the half gust factor method.
>
> Me personally, today is a day I stay nice and safely on the ground. Yet
> I've noticed a lot of PIREPs in the vicinity - C-172s, Mooneys, etc,
> reporting low-level windshear, urgent pireps for moderate to severe
> turbulence, and one guy even reported he whacked his head in some bumps
> at 6000 feet:
>
> PIREP 15:57Z 10/29/06
> ABE UUA /OV FJC360010/TM 1557/FL060/TP M20P/TB SVR/RM HIT HEAD ON
> CIELING
>
> My question to you all: why would anyone in a spam can even attempt
> flight on a day like this?
>
> --
> Guy


Depends on your reasons for flying... If I'm flying to see a customer, I
will deal with some turbulence as long as I know I won't have cross-wind
issues. If I hadn't flown in a couple of weeks and today was my only chance
to get up because of other life commitments (work, wife, kids, whatever) I
might still go... It's just wind ("potholes in the sky", I like to say).

Besides, the pirep doesn't say how tall the pilot is - I'm 5'11" and I bet
I would hit my head on the ceiling in moderate turbulence in a Mooney.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Judah > wrote:

> "Guy Elden Jr" > wrote in news:1162142286.380093.150600
> @f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Today is without a doubt the windiest day we've seen up here in the
> > northeast in quite a few months... METARs all around NYC are reporting
> > anywhere from 15 - 25 kts, gusting anywhere from 30 - 40 kts. Some of
> > the spreads between standing winds and gusts are around 20 - 25 kts, so
> > a typical C-172 pilot would have to adjust approach speed by around 10
> > - 13 kts using the half gust factor method.
> >
> > Me personally, today is a day I stay nice and safely on the ground. Yet
> > I've noticed a lot of PIREPs in the vicinity - C-172s, Mooneys, etc,
> > reporting low-level windshear, urgent pireps for moderate to severe
> > turbulence, and one guy even reported he whacked his head in some bumps
> > at 6000 feet:
> >
> > PIREP 15:57Z 10/29/06
> > ABE UUA /OV FJC360010/TM 1557/FL060/TP M20P/TB SVR/RM HIT HEAD ON
> > CIELING
> >
> > My question to you all: why would anyone in a spam can even attempt
> > flight on a day like this?
> >
> > --
> > Guy
>
>
> Depends on your reasons for flying... If I'm flying to see a customer, I
> will deal with some turbulence as long as I know I won't have cross-wind
> issues. If I hadn't flown in a couple of weeks and today was my only chance
> to get up because of other life commitments (work, wife, kids, whatever) I
> might still go... It's just wind ("potholes in the sky", I like to say).
>
> Besides, the pirep doesn't say how tall the pilot is - I'm 5'11" and I bet
> I would hit my head on the ceiling in moderate turbulence in a Mooney.

It also depends on where you are. Flat terrain is far more benign than
mountainous terrain. I recall a few years ago when, allegedly, three
airplanes were lost in the Sierra Foothills on a day that had high
winds. A C150 lost control due to turbulence and a Bonanza and a C210
came apart in flight.

[tony roberts]

> My question to you all: why would anyone in a spam can even attempt
> flight on a day like this?

Hi Guy

Here is a different viewpoint. One day, on a cross country, you may
suddenly find yourself in similar - unforecast - conditions.
So I suggest that it is a great idea to go up and practice when
conditions are like that - with an instructor/safety pilot if necessary,
provided of course that it isn't straight across your runway.

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[john smith]

In article >,
Matt Whiting > wrote:

> And tuning the radio was challenging to say the least.

Brace your hand against the panel/stack and grasp the knob between thumb
and forefinger.

[Matt Whiting]

john smith wrote:
> In article >,
> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>
>>And tuning the radio was challenging to say the least.
>
>
> Brace your hand against the panel/stack and grasp the knob between thumb
> and forefinger.

I'm well familiar with that technique. I couldn't keep my had in one
place on the stack. This was in severe turbulence, not the run of the
mill light or moderate. I've never seen anthing like it before or
since. The motion was so violent at times that I literally couldn't
read the instruments momentarily.


Matt

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Guy Elden Jr wrote:
> My question to you all: why would anyone in a spam can even attempt
> flight on a day like this?


To get to where you need to go. I used to have a courier job where I flew every
day, Monday through Friday. I doubt my boss would be too impressed with me if I
sat a day out simply because it was bumpy.

The roughest rides are inside thunderstorms and in clear air immediately after a
strong cold front passes through. Thunderstorms always scared me because of the
fear of losing control while on instruments. Clear air turbulence was just an
annoyance because at least I knew I wasn't going to have any problems with
maintaining orientation.

Certain things are done exactly the same: ball cap on head, seat down low,
seatbelt as tight as you can make it, slow down to maneuvering speed, maintain
control rather than altitude.

I always preferred to fly in these conditions alone. At least I knew *I* wasn't
going to puke.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[RK Henry]

On 29 Oct 2006 09:18:06 -0800, "Guy Elden Jr" >
wrote:

>My question to you all: why would anyone in a spam can even attempt
>flight on a day like this?

Great day to practice "Chinese landings."

RK Henry

[kontiki]

At some point you need to get up there and fly in some wind if you
ever want to get beyond just a fair weather pilot. Fly with a CFI
for a few hours in it just to get some experience. Eventually you
will not mind this sort of weather so much and you will be a MUCH
safer pilot.

[Jose[_1_]]

> Great day to practice "Chinese landings."

What are Chinese landings?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Judah]

Jose > wrote in news:n5m1h.25323$7I1.14444
@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:

>> Great day to practice "Chinese landings."
>
> What are Chinese landings?
>
> Jose

Isn't that where everyone in the vehicle hops out on final and switches
seats?

[Ron Natalie]

Guy Elden Jr wrote:
> Today is without a doubt the windiest day we've seen up here in the
> northeast in quite a few months... METARs all around NYC are reporting
> anywhere from 15 - 25 kts, gusting anywhere from 30 - 40 kts. Some of
> the spreads between standing winds and gusts are around 20 - 25 kts, so
> a typical C-172 pilot would have to adjust approach speed by around 10
> - 13 kts using the half gust factor method.

I learned in Colorado. 20G33 was good student solo weather.
It's all what you're used to. Of course, I was also used
to unlimited visibilities. Margy on the other hand learned
in DC. Winds were never severe but 4 miles in haze is a
nice VFR day.

[RK Henry]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:19:31 GMT, Jose >
wrote:

>> Great day to practice "Chinese landings."
>
>What are Chinese landings?

That's where you're landing in a slip with one wing higher than the
other. "One Hung Lo."

I had a primary CFI who used to call them that. I once saw the term
mentioned in an AOPA Pilot magazine quiz page. Apparently the term
dates to WWI.

RK Henry

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:19:31 GMT, Jose > wrote:

> > Great day to practice "Chinese landings."
>
> What are Chinese landings?

"One Wing Low"

Ron Wanttaja

[john smith]

> > > Great day to practice "Chinese landings."

> > What are Chinese landings?

> "One Wing Low"

I am still trying to determine which is more exciting... in a high wing
or a low wing? I am thinking high wing because the roll angle is greater.