Battery heater: Any experiences?

[Peter R.]

After having some rather lucky starts last winter, I am thinking of adding
a Tanis battery heater to my Tanis system. On paper, this new heating
element makes sense to me.

Any experiences?

--
Peter

[The Visitor]

I didn't know they made one. Makes sense for some though. Could you put
in an automotive one? It's not like you were using it in flight.

Peter R. wrote:
> After having some rather lucky starts last winter, I am thinking of adding
> a Tanis battery heater to my Tanis system. On paper, this new heating
> element makes sense to me.
>
> Any experiences?
>

[Kyle Boatright]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> After having some rather lucky starts last winter, I am thinking of adding
> a Tanis battery heater to my Tanis system. On paper, this new heating
> element makes sense to me.
>
> Any experiences?
>
> --
> Peter

How does the Tanis battery heater work? I know Reiff has one that glues to
the battery box.

My solution for a cold battery is to drape a household heating pad over the
battery and leave it plugged in overnight. Of course, my plane's battery is
very easy to access.

KB

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 18:35:25 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"
> wrote:

>
>"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
>> After having some rather lucky starts last winter, I am thinking of adding
>> a Tanis battery heater to my Tanis system. On paper, this new heating

I'd heat the engine instead.

>> element makes sense to me.
>>
>> Any experiences?
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>
>How does the Tanis battery heater work? I know Reiff has one that glues to
>the battery box.

I've never seen the Tanis battery heater, but I'd guess it's much like
the crank case heater. (A piece of silicone rubber with a heating
element inside glued to the battery box or stuck inside between the
battery and box...if it'd fit) It probably runs no where near the
temperature of the regular heater.

I have a Tanis block heater plus one insert on each cylinder head. If
I wrap up the engine compartment the whole inside is about 40C with
the outside edges still quite warm to the touch. I'd guess the
battery gets to 80 or 90 F. Now if it'd just heat the cabin to the
same<sigh>

NOTE I wrap the engine compartment with two layers of these new space
age blankets. Sewn together. They completely cover the firewall
forward and are held together under the engine compartment with large
safety pins.

>
>My solution for a cold battery is to drape a household heating pad over the
>battery and leave it plugged in overnight. Of course, my plane's battery is
>very easy to access.
>
I figure if the engine is warm so is the battery and the engine should
be warm. It also turns over a lot easier with less current draw when
it's warm even if the battery is cold.


It's not set up on the airplane, but for my 9500 watt back up
generator I have just a small 50/75 ? watt heat lamp in a reflector
about two feet from the battery. It stays on all winter. The battery
will be slightly warm to the touch. Something like a low wattage
heating pad would *probably* be OK, but generally they get too hot
although wrapped around a batter would probably not get any where near
what they do when you lay on one.

>KB
>
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Kyle Boatright]

"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 18:35:25 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
>>> After having some rather lucky starts last winter, I am thinking of
>>> adding
>>> a Tanis battery heater to my Tanis system. On paper, this new heating
>
> I'd heat the engine instead.

I heat both. The battery in my airplane is not under-cowl and heating the
engine doesn't help the battery very much.

>
>>> element makes sense to me.
>>>
>>> Any experiences?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter
>>
>>How does the Tanis battery heater work? I know Reiff has one that glues
>>to
>>the battery box.
>
> I've never seen the Tanis battery heater, but I'd guess it's much like
> the crank case heater. (A piece of silicone rubber with a heating
> element inside glued to the battery box or stuck inside between the
> battery and box...if it'd fit) It probably runs no where near the
> temperature of the regular heater.
>
> I have a Tanis block heater plus one insert on each cylinder head. If
> I wrap up the engine compartment the whole inside is about 40C with
> the outside edges still quite warm to the touch. I'd guess the
> battery gets to 80 or 90 F. Now if it'd just heat the cabin to the
> same<sigh>
>
> NOTE I wrap the engine compartment with two layers of these new space
> age blankets. Sewn together. They completely cover the firewall
> forward and are held together under the engine compartment with large
> safety pins.
>
>>
>>My solution for a cold battery is to drape a household heating pad over
>>the
>>battery and leave it plugged in overnight. Of course, my plane's battery
>>is
>>very easy to access.
>>
> I figure if the engine is warm so is the battery and the engine should
> be warm. It also turns over a lot easier with less current draw when
> it's warm even if the battery is cold.
>
>
> It's not set up on the airplane, but for my 9500 watt back up
> generator I have just a small 50/75 ? watt heat lamp in a reflector
> about two feet from the battery. It stays on all winter. The battery
> will be slightly warm to the touch. Something like a low wattage
> heating pad would *probably* be OK, but generally they get too hot
> although wrapped around a batter would probably not get any where near
> what they do when you lay on one.

They don't get particularly warm when draped over the battery. First, they
are not trapped between a big insulator (a bed or chair) and a heat
generator (the person), second, it is cold, and third the heating pad
doesn't have a *lot* of direct contact with the battery or battery box. I
figure my heating pad keeps the battery 20F or so above ambient.


>
>>KB
>>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com

KB

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

I don't know if "competition" would be the correct word to use because this
says that it's unavailable.... but here's the link to the reiff battery
heater http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Battery%20Heater.htm
Jim



"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> After having some rather lucky starts last winter, I am thinking of adding
> a Tanis battery heater to my Tanis system. On paper, this new heating
> element makes sense to me.
>
> Any experiences?
>
> --
> Peter

[Jay Somerset]

On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:50:02 -0500, "Peter R." > wrote:

> After having some rather lucky starts last winter, I am thinking of adding
> a Tanis battery heater to my Tanis system. On paper, this new heating
> element makes sense to me.
>
> Any experiences?

Better than a battery heater is a trickle charger. It will both keep the
battery fully charged, and also keep it warm. Just make sure you get a
charger for your battery voltage (12 or 24 volts).

Check with your IA to see if you need a form 337 (or some such) to make the
installation legal.

[Peter R.]

Jay Somerset > wrote:

> Better than a battery heater is a trickle charger. It will both keep the
> battery fully charged, and also keep it warm. Just make sure you get a
> charger for your battery voltage (12 or 24 volts).

Interesting food for thought, both the above and the other suggestions.
Instead of purchasing the heater, I am now considering all of these
options. Thanks, all.


--
Peter

[nrp]

Maybe you can get to the clock terminal with a trickle charger lead?
You only need & want maybe 100 milli-amps if even that much.

[Newps]

You can get a 1 amp trickle charger at the auto parts store. You will
never hurt the battery at a constant 1 amp.




nrp wrote:
> Maybe you can get to the clock terminal with a trickle charger lead?
> You only need & want maybe 100 milli-amps if even that much.
>

[[email protected]]

Newps > wrote:
> nrp wrote:
>> Maybe you can get to the clock terminal with a trickle charger lead?
>> You only need & want maybe 100 milli-amps if even that much.
>
> You can get a 1 amp trickle charger at the auto parts store. You will
> never hurt the battery at a constant 1 amp.

You probably won't hurt the battery itself (plates, case), but if it's a
flooded battery, the electrolyte will tend to go away. :)

The average cheap "trickle charger" is not regulated in any way, and
depends on the user shutting off the charger after a certain time.
These are commonly sold as a motorcycle battery charger, with output of
1 A at 12 V (and sometimes 6 V). These are great for charging smaller
batteries when you don't want to use a "big" charger (6 A, 10 A, or 12 A),
and for playing certain tricks on an elderly big battery when you are
trying to squeeze a little more life out of it (ground vehicles only).
But if you hook one up to a flooded battery and leave it long enough,
you'll start overcharging the battery and cooking off some of the
electrolyte. Their output voltage is high enough that they will still
attempt to charge at nearly 1 A, even when the battery is fully charged.

A better choice is a regulated charger that will automatically switch to
a lower charging rate once the battery is fully charged. These chargers
start out with a high output voltage that will charge the battery at
around 1 or 1.5 A, but when the battery voltage rises far enough, will
automatically switch to a lower output voltage, which drops the charge
current to 0.1 A or less - just enough to overcome the self-discharge of
the battery without overcharging it. A couple of examples are the
Deltran "Battery Tender" and the Schumacher "Battery Companion". I have
a little more experience with the Deltran units, but I have also used
the Schumacher one, and both brands seem to do a good job of maintaining
flooded batteries without damaging them. The Deltran chargers seem to
be a little pricier and harder to find, but are available in 24 V. I
don't think the Schumachers are available in 24 V, but the 12 V ones are
less expensive than the Deltrans and are often available at Wal-Mart.

If I had to use an unregulated cheap "trickle charger" to maintain an
unattended battery for a long time, I would probably use it with an
electromechanical lamp timer to only run the charger for an hour or two
a day. This is enough time to correct any self-discharge, but not long
enough to overcharge the battery really badly. The electromechanical
lamp timer is so that it will pick up where it left off in case of a
power outage.

FWIW, in an older revision of their manual at
http://gillbatteries.com/images/sect4.pdf , Gill specifically said
"don't let a trickle charger run forever". The legal and marketing
departments got at the manual and turned it into
http://gillbatteries.com/battery_PDF/flooded_service_manual.pdf
which still doesn't like trickle chargers, but you have to read between
the lines a bit.

Whatever you use, don't forget to unhook it before you fly off. OK,
you'd never do that, but... When I work on ground vehicles where I
might not be the next person to operate the vehicle, I have found the
most reliable way is to loop the extension cord for the charger through
the driver's door handle or steering wheel. Most people will try to
figure out what the cord is hooked up to before driving off. If you
have a lot of money, you can get a nifty flush-mount male 120 V plug
with a solenoid-operated ejector pin in it. The solenoid gets wired
to the vehicle electrical system, so when you turn on the key/master/
whatever, the solenoid comes on and spits the plug out of the socket.

Roger mentioned that he uses a heat lamp on his motor-generator battery
to keep it warm. Depending on the mounting of your aircraft battery,
you might be able to do something similar (with hardware you probably
already have) to decide if the "official" battery heater would help.
Calibrate your head with a few "start after cold soak" cycles with no
heater. Then get a drop light with a plain old incandescent bulb in
it and put it under the battery somewhere - watch out for things that
might melt, fluids that might drip on the lamp, etc - and switch it on.
Hang out for 30-60 minutes (don't run off), then take the drop light
out and try a start. If the engine seems to start a lot easier, it
might be worth spending money on the "official" battery heater with a
thermostat and everything.

A few years back, I put an oil pan heater on my Chevy. This was in
Kansas City, where you really don't need an oil pan heater, but when
I plugged it in, it did seem to make the engine start a little easier
after a cold soak. One winter, when I plugged it in, it made the engine
start a _lot_ easier after a cold soak - nearly to the point that if I
didn't plug it in I sometimes wondered if it would start or not. I
didn't figure it out right away, but the battery was crapping out -
later in the winter it died for good and I installed a new battery.
With the new battery, the engine started pretty easy whether I plugged
the heater in or not. The heater still made a difference, but not as
much as it did when the battery was on its way out. So I think in my
case the heater was useful, but not as useful as having a good battery.
If you live way up north, a good battery _and_ a heater may be more
useful.

Disclaimer: This is based on experience with flooded and VRLA/AGM
batteries for starting and traction on ground vehicles. I don't have
an A&P; I don't even have a TG&Y. I don't get money or other
consideration from any of the companies mentioned.

Matt Roberds