Weight of Ice

[gwengler]

I roughly calculated that the weight of 1 in. of ice on all forward
surfaces on my T182 (fixed gear) is about 250 lbs. Anyone cares to
comment on this?
Gerd (ATPL)

[Jim Macklin]

It isn't the weight, it is the lack of aerodynamic shape.




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"gwengler" > wrote in message
oups.com...
|I roughly calculated that the weight of 1 in. of ice on all
forward
| surfaces on my T182 (fixed gear) is about 250 lbs. Anyone
cares to
| comment on this?
| Gerd (ATPL)
|

[Jose[_1_]]

> I roughly calculated that the weight of 1 in. of ice on all forward
> surfaces on my T182 (fixed gear) is about 250 lbs. Anyone cares to
> comment on this?

Just that the change in shape of the airfoil is probably more important
than the weight.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[gwengler]

> Just that the change in shape of the airfoil is probably more important
> than the weight.

That is correct, but at some time, the weight itself becomes an issue,
too. I was just curious about the weight. There are some interesting
pictures here comparing a Cessna wing with a TKS equipped Cirrus wing:
http://www.ferryflights.org/Ferryflights-icing.htm

Gerd

[Bill[_4_]]

You are long past dead when the weight becomes an issue.
At least in a little plane. The shape of the ice buildup can
be really ugly.

Worse problems: Shape of the wing >> drag
Tail plane stalling in landing
configuration.

Airplanes with the spar in the front seat tend to carry ice
better-- the ugly shape interferes less with the wing lift.

Trust me on this. Bill Hale BPPP instructor

gwengler wrote:
> > Just that the change in shape of the airfoil is probably more important
> > than the weight.
>
> That is correct, but at some time, the weight itself becomes an issue,
> too. I was just curious about the weight. There are some interesting
> pictures here comparing a Cessna wing with a TKS equipped Cirrus wing:
> http://www.ferryflights.org/Ferryflights-icing.htm
>
> Gerd

[Bob Gardner]

Another swing at a dead horse...weight is a minor factor. If you could carry
another passenger, you could carry as much weight in the form of ice as in
your worst nightmares.

Bob Gardner

"gwengler" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I roughly calculated that the weight of 1 in. of ice on all forward
> surfaces on my T182 (fixed gear) is about 250 lbs. Anyone cares to
> comment on this?
> Gerd (ATPL)
>

[Jim Macklin]

Also, rime is full of air and may be 1/2 the weight of clear
ice. It is the spoiler effect of the ice that causes the
problem.


"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
. ..
| Another swing at a dead horse...weight is a minor factor.
If you could carry
| another passenger, you could carry as much weight in the
form of ice as in
| your worst nightmares.
|
| Bob Gardner
|
| "gwengler" > wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| >I roughly calculated that the weight of 1 in. of ice on
all forward
| > surfaces on my T182 (fixed gear) is about 250 lbs.
Anyone cares to
| > comment on this?
| > Gerd (ATPL)
| >
|
|

[Robert M. Gary]

Bob Gardner wrote:
> Another swing at a dead horse...weight is a minor factor. If you could carry
> another passenger, you could carry as much weight in the form of ice as in
> your worst nightmares.

I guess I'm not old enough. However, was there really ever a time when
students were taught that its the weight of the ice that kills?

-Robert, CFII

[Bob Gardner]

Maybe I'm not old enough either. I can't remember weight as ever having been
a consideration. Those leading edge profiles showing clear, rime, and mixed
have been around since the early 60s to my personal knowledge.

HOWEVER, I have a book from the 1920s that talks about "ice barnacles."

Bob

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Bob Gardner wrote:
>> Another swing at a dead horse...weight is a minor factor. If you could
>> carry
>> another passenger, you could carry as much weight in the form of ice as
>> in
>> your worst nightmares.
>
> I guess I'm not old enough. However, was there really ever a time when
> students were taught that its the weight of the ice that kills?
>
> -Robert, CFII
>

[Andrew Sarangan[_1_]]

gwengler wrote:
> I roughly calculated that the weight of 1 in. of ice on all forward
> surfaces on my T182 (fixed gear) is about 250 lbs. Anyone cares to
> comment on this?
> Gerd (ATPL)


Frost on the wing weighs next to nothing, probably a few ounces.

[Robert M. Gary]

Bob Gardner wrote:
> Maybe I'm not old enough either. I can't remember weight as ever having been
> a consideration. Those leading edge profiles showing clear, rime, and mixed
> have been around since the early 60s to my personal knowledge.
>
> HOWEVER, I have a book from the 1920s that talks about "ice barnacles."
>
> Bob

I wondered if perhaps some of the ultra low wing loading of the older
planes (like the J-3) didn't have nearly the aerodynamic effect as a
result of ice as a higher loading wing today does. Essentially, perhaps
today we have a lack of excess lift available?
In my younger days, I flew the J-3 after only doing a 1/2 ass job of
defrosting it. I never noticed any problems. Just thinking out loud.

-Robert

[Jim Macklin]

Other problems with the weight of ice that accumulates on
the ground and is not completely removed... I was shown
pictures of a CE 210 [old, strut braced] which crashed near
Tulsa about 30 years ago. It seems that all the ice was
removed except for some small amounts on the ailerons. When
the plane go to cruise speed flutter began and it wrenched
both out wing panels into scrap metal.



"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ps.com...
|
| Bob Gardner wrote:
| > Maybe I'm not old enough either. I can't remember weight
as ever having been
| > a consideration. Those leading edge profiles showing
clear, rime, and mixed
| > have been around since the early 60s to my personal
knowledge.
| >
| > HOWEVER, I have a book from the 1920s that talks about
"ice barnacles."
| >
| > Bob
|
| I wondered if perhaps some of the ultra low wing loading
of the older
| planes (like the J-3) didn't have nearly the aerodynamic
effect as a
| result of ice as a higher loading wing today does.
Essentially, perhaps
| today we have a lack of excess lift available?
| In my younger days, I flew the J-3 after only doing a 1/2
ass job of
| defrosting it. I never noticed any problems. Just thinking
out loud.
|
| -Robert
|

[The21stCenturyPatriot]

gwengler wrote:
> I roughly calculated that the weight of 1 in. of ice on all forward
> surfaces on my T182 (fixed gear) is about 250 lbs. Anyone cares to
> comment on this?
> Gerd (ATPL)
>

Get rid of that fat ass mother-in-law in the back seat and
you can compensate for icing it looks like

[PilotWeb.org]

More than just the weight is involved. Remember, ice can kill you four
ways:


1. Ice DECREASES LIFT by changing shape of airfoil
2. Ice DECREASES THRUST by accumulating on your props or turbine
inlets
3. Ice INCREASES WEIGHT, for obvious reasons.
4. Ice INCREASES DRAG, parasitic.

Bad, bad, bad, and bad.

Stay out of it, and if you get in, get out while you still have
controllability and climb capability.

But of course, you knew that :)



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