Garmin 496 Training

[John Theune]

Kobra wrote:
> I was thinking of upgrading my 396 to the 496 and bought VFlite's
> Interactive Guide to see the new features in action. It was very helpful,
> but I just don't think there are enough new features (taxi guidance, AOPA
> database, etc.) to justify the price tag.
>
> I am offering the course on eBay at: http://tinyurl.com/vfruy
>
> for 9 dollars if anyone else is interested.
>
> I hope the 596 has a touch screen, full IFR approaches, MEA's and approach
> altitudes. Then I'll trade up instantly.
>
> Kobra
>
>
Not very likely. Since none of those items can be used in a handheld
GPS ( legally, discounting touch screen ) why would Garmin put them in?

[Sam Spade]

Kobra wrote:
> I was thinking of upgrading my 396 to the 496 and bought VFlite's
> Interactive Guide to see the new features in action. It was very helpful,
> but I just don't think there are enough new features (taxi guidance, AOPA
> database, etc.) to justify the price tag.
>
> I am offering the course on eBay at: http://tinyurl.com/vfruy
>
> for 9 dollars if anyone else is interested.
>
> I hope the 596 has a touch screen, full IFR approaches, MEA's and approach
> altitudes. Then I'll trade up instantly.
>
> Kobra
>
My Garmin 195 has full IFR approaches. Garmin figured out later that
wasn't a good idea.

[John Theune]

Frank Stutzman wrote:
> In rec.aviation.ifr Sam Spade > wrote:
>
>> My Garmin 195 has full IFR approaches. Garmin figured out later that
>> wasn't a good idea.
>
> Uhhh, its been a while since I've looked at the IFR stuff on my 195, but I
> don't think it has full approaches. The final approach course, yes, but
> thats far from a 'full' approach.
>
> I don't have another handheld GPS so I don't know what Garmin did on the
> later models.
>
> --
> Frank Stutzman
> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
> Hood River, OR
>
I had a 195 ( but no longer ) and as I recall your right it was the
extended center line that was depicted, not the entire approach.

[Frank Stutzman]

In rec.aviation.ifr Sam Spade > wrote:

> My Garmin 195 has full IFR approaches. Garmin figured out later that
> wasn't a good idea.

Uhhh, its been a while since I've looked at the IFR stuff on my 195, but I
don't think it has full approaches. The final approach course, yes, but
thats far from a 'full' approach.

I don't have another handheld GPS so I don't know what Garmin did on the
later models.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[Jay Honeck]

> I hope the 596 has a touch screen, full IFR approaches, MEA's and approach
> altitudes. Then I'll trade up instantly.

And a bigger screen that can be displayed in portrait mode! Without
that, I'll never buy another Garmin.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Nathan Young]

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:45:28 +0000 (UTC), Frank Stutzman
> wrote:

>In rec.aviation.ifr Sam Spade > wrote:
>
>> My Garmin 195 has full IFR approaches. Garmin figured out later that
>> wasn't a good idea.
>
>Uhhh, its been a while since I've looked at the IFR stuff on my 195, but I
>don't think it has full approaches. The final approach course, yes, but
>thats far from a 'full' approach.
>
>I don't have another handheld GPS so I don't know what Garmin did on the
>later models.

The 295 allows you to select the approach, and then fly 'vectors' to
intercept the final approach course. Or you can select direct to the
fix preceding the runway (for example the OM on an ILS), then the GPS
autosequences to the RW approach end as the final fix.

It does not have missed approach procedures.

I am not sure about vertical guidance. I have seen the 'glideslope'
needle on the GPS' HSI, but I don't know if it is actually tied to the
correct heights for each segment of an approach, or if it is providing
something more simplistic, like a 3deg glideslope.

[The Visitor]

Jay Honeck wrote:


> And a bigger screen that can be displayed in portrait mode! Without
> that, I'll never buy another Garmin.

Yeah, what he said.

John

[Kobra]

I was thinking of upgrading my 396 to the 496 and bought VFlite's
Interactive Guide to see the new features in action. It was very helpful,
but I just don't think there are enough new features (taxi guidance, AOPA
database, etc.) to justify the price tag.

I am offering the course on eBay at: http://tinyurl.com/vfruy

for 9 dollars if anyone else is interested.

I hope the 596 has a touch screen, full IFR approaches, MEA's and approach
altitudes. Then I'll trade up instantly.

Kobra

[Kobra]

>>
> Not very likely. Since none of those items can be used in a handheld GPS
> ( legally, discounting touch screen ) why would Garmin put them in?

They most certainly can be used legally!! Just not as PRIMARY navigation
guidance.

Why did Garmin put the FAF to the MAP guidance of an IFR approach in their
handheld GPS's? It's just as illegal to use this information as primary
guidance under an IFR flight plan as it would be to use the IAF to the FAF
and to use any holding depictions or course reversals.

My take is that they know people use the handhelds in IFR conditions under
an IFR flight plan as *backup* situational awareness while on the approach.
So if they're going to give you right-left guidance, why not up-down
guidance for backup situational awareness? Same goes for the MEA's

Kobra

[Dan Luke]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

> And a bigger screen that can be displayed in portrait mode! Without
> that, I'll never buy another Garmin.

You should be so lucky as to have a choice.

Garmin's competitors are a bunch of weenies.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Dan[_1_]]

Yup... It's been pretty good for their stock performance though...

--Dan
(Garmin fan and stockholder)


Dan Luke wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" wrote:
>
> > And a bigger screen that can be displayed in portrait mode! Without
> > that, I'll never buy another Garmin.
>
> You should be so lucky as to have a choice.
>
> Garmin's competitors are a bunch of weenies.
>
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM

[Jay Honeck]

> > And a bigger screen that can be displayed in portrait mode! Without
> > that, I'll never buy another Garmin.
>
> You should be so lucky as to have a choice.
>
> Garmin's competitors are a bunch of weenies.

Boy, isn't that the truth? Lowrance, with all of its nautical might,
has proven to be nothing but a bottom feeder (and I own and like a
2000c, BTW). And AvMap may as well go back to Italy, because they
clearly don't understand marketing in the US.

It's really a shame, cuz without competition Garmin can just keep
stuffing their over-priced dinky x96's down our throats, knowing that
they're the only weather game in town.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Frank[_5_]]

How about the www.aviationsafety.com

Large screen, weather, charts, approach plates. I don't have one, but it
looks real attractive, lower cost to boot..

Frank


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> > And a bigger screen that can be displayed in portrait mode! Without
>> > that, I'll never buy another Garmin.
>>
>> You should be so lucky as to have a choice.
>>
>> Garmin's competitors are a bunch of weenies.
>
> Boy, isn't that the truth? Lowrance, with all of its nautical might,
> has proven to be nothing but a bottom feeder (and I own and like a
> 2000c, BTW). And AvMap may as well go back to Italy, because they
> clearly don't understand marketing in the US.
>
> It's really a shame, cuz without competition Garmin can just keep
> stuffing their over-priced dinky x96's down our throats, knowing that
> they're the only weather game in town.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Doug[_1_]]

I'm pretty happy with my Garmins. Most of us are. You, Jay, are about
the ONLY one complaining.

[Dan Luke]

"Doug" wrote:

> I'm pretty happy with my Garmins. Most of us are. You, Jay, are about
> the ONLY one complaining.


I like Garmin portables; I've had five of them, up to the 496 I have now.

That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with my choices. The 496 is great for what
it does, but it could be better in several ways and cheaper, too.

Where's the price/features pressure on Garmin coming from? Nowhere, right
now.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[Doug[_1_]]

Well, what features that Garmin does not offer would you like to see?

Jay says a larger screen. OK, seems possible. What else?

[Ray Andraka]

Doug wrote:

> Well, what features that Garmin does not offer would you like to see?
>
> Jay says a larger screen. OK, seems possible. What else?
>

Flight plan entry that recognizes airways. CCC V16 ENO for example.

[Dan Luke]

"Doug" wrote:
> Well, what features that Garmin does not offer would you like to see?
>
> Jay says a larger screen. OK, seems possible. What else?

Twist-knob data entry. Quick connect, yoke mount docking station. All
waypoints for approaches (probably forbidden by lawyers). Customizable page
order with ability to skip pages.

[Tri-Pacer[_1_]]

>> Garmin's competitors are a bunch of weenies.
>
> Boy, isn't that the truth? Lowrance, with all of its nautical might,
> has proven to be nothing but a bottom feeder (and I own and like a
> 2000c, BTW). And AvMap may as well go back to Italy, because they
> clearly don't understand marketing in the US.
>
> It's really a shame, cuz without competition Garmin can just keep
> stuffing their over-priced dinky x96's down our throats, knowing that
> they're the only weather game in town.
> --

Strange that no one has mentioned the King Skymap IIIC

Big screen, intuitive software, terrain info, etc.

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A

[Jay Honeck]

> Strange that no one has mentioned the King Skymap IIIC
>
> Big screen, intuitive software, terrain info, etc.

Stranger still (and sad to say) -- I'd never even heard of it before
now. I had to Google it to even see what it looks like.

How come King wasn't pushing these things out the door at OSH?
Wouldn't you think that even ONE of the dozens of vendors there MIGHT
have mentioned it to me?

Oh, wait -- it doesn't have live weather. Bingo -- it's out of
contention.

Too bad. Just another AvMap.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Doug[_1_]]

Jay, live weather is NOT trivial. And for all your griping about
Garmin's lack of innovation, they were the innovator on that one (for
handhelds). Early on cockpit too. And they did it RIGHT (satellite to
plane, NOT ground antennae to plane like King did it).

I don't think anyone else does satellite to plane weather, EXCEPT
Garmin, do they?

[Sam Spade]

Frank Stutzman wrote:
> In rec.aviation.ifr Sam Spade > wrote:
>
>
>>My Garmin 195 has full IFR approaches. Garmin figured out later that
>>wasn't a good idea.
>
>I turned the old thing on. It has one fix prior to the FAF, which is
usually (but not always) the IF. The Garmine 295, and onward only have
the FAF (and runway ot MAP).

[Sam Spade]

Doug wrote:

> Jay, live weather is NOT trivial. And for all your griping about
> Garmin's lack of innovation, they were the innovator on that one (for
> handhelds). Early on cockpit too. And they did it RIGHT (satellite to
> plane, NOT ground antennae to plane like King did it).
>
> I don't think anyone else does satellite to plane weather, EXCEPT
> Garmin, do they?
>
You mean for handhelds I guess. There are several vendors piping NEXRAD
for MFDs.

[Jay Honeck]

> > I don't think anyone else does satellite to plane weather, EXCEPT
> > Garmin, do they?
> >
> You mean for handhelds I guess. There are several vendors piping NEXRAD
> for MFDs.

Palm/pocket/tablet-PC versions abound. I almost bought one of the
tablet PC versions at OSH, but the absurd price tag (and fear of a hard
drive crash at altitude) scared me off.

We pilots are apparently just too small a niche market for the other
main players in the market (Lowrance, AvMap) to jump aboard. It's
frustrating, but understandable.

But don't get me wrong -- weather is a wonderful tool to have on board,
and the 496 is a fine piece of equipment. What I hate is that it could
easily be made perfect, with just a few minor tweaks, but (I'm guessing
here) Garmin apparently wants to keep the box small enough to use as a
dashboard automotive GPS -- which precludes making the changes
necessary to turn it into a truly useful aviation GPS. (It really IS a
fantastic automotive GPS. I am truly, 100% satisfied with it in that
mode. Unfortunately, that represents about 5% of my usage, to date.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ray Andraka]

Jay Honeck wrote:


>
> Palm/pocket/tablet-PC versions abound. I almost bought one of the
> tablet PC versions at OSH, but the absurd price tag (and fear of a hard
> drive crash at altitude) scared me off.
>
> We pilots are apparently just too small a niche market for the other
> main players in the market (Lowrance, AvMap) to jump aboard. It's
> frustrating, but understandable.
>
> But don't get me wrong -- weather is a wonderful tool to have on board,
> and the 496 is a fine piece of equipment. What I hate is that it could
> easily be made perfect, with just a few minor tweaks, but (I'm guessing
> here) Garmin apparently wants to keep the box small enough to use as a
> dashboard automotive GPS -- which precludes making the changes
> necessary to turn it into a truly useful aviation GPS. (It really IS a
> fantastic automotive GPS. I am truly, 100% satisfied with it in that
> mode. Unfortunately, that represents about 5% of my usage, to date.)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Jay, I'm still trying to figure out where you'd put a bigger screen in
Atlas? I find there isn't enough clearance between my lap and the yoke
on my Six to put it on my lap. Anywhere else obstructs instruments or
windows. That's why I like my Garmin III pilot. It's nice and small,
and I have it mounted on top of the glarshield in the horizontal
position so that it is in my scan, yet not obstructing anything on the
panel, and where it is the only view it blocks is that of the long nose
of the Six. The 396/496 when I get around to getting one will have to
find a spot on my panel...I think I can fit it under the center stack
above the throttle and prop controls...maybe. Nothing bigger is going
to fit anywhere.

Before I bought the III-pilot (I bought it the week it was announced), I
bought a Garmin 195. I tried it out for a couple flights, but just
couldn't find a spot where it could live where I could still see crucial
stuff on my panel (yoke was out, couldn't see the DG or TC with it
there, too big to put on the panel between the Loran and the engine
controls, no room on my lap, blocked half the sky on the glareshield,
etc. So the next day Garmin announces the III-pilot, so I returned the
195 and got that instead. Small has it's virtues.

[Doug[_1_]]

Yes, but are they SATELLITE to receiver weather? Does any other vendor
use the XMradio satellite weather data?

[Jim Burns]

Doug,
help me understand your question. Are you discounting the portable
PDA/notebook/laptop combinations that use XM Weather and saying that only
Garmin has a portable dedicated GPS unit that also displays XM Weather?
Jim

"Doug" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Yes, but are they SATELLITE to receiver weather? Does any other vendor
> use the XMradio satellite weather data?
>

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Doug" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Yes, but are they SATELLITE to receiver weather? Does any other vendor
> use the XMradio satellite weather data?

Yes.

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, I'm still trying to figure out where you'd put a bigger screen in
> Atlas? I find there isn't enough clearance between my lap and the yoke
> on my Six to put it on my lap. Anywhere else obstructs instruments or
> windows.

I flew for years with the AvMap -- easily twice the screen size of the
496 -- on my yoke. Here's a picture of it, installed:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?U54D246D6 (The old Lowrance Airmap 300,
pictured on the co-pilot's yoke, is long gone, too...)

The AvMap DID block some of the lesser instruments. I would have to
look around it a bit to see two of the four fuel gauges, and the tach.
But the "sacred six" were all unobstructed -- and flying behind that
huge color screen was just a joy. The 496's screen is very
restrictive in what it can show, by comparison.

Size matters.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Doug" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Yes, but are they SATELLITE to receiver weather? Does any other vendor
>> use the XMradio satellite weather data?
>
> Yes.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/fl210True.php

[Doug[_1_]]

Interesting. One thing I noticed, a USB port? I certainly hope they did
not use that standard USB plug. It does not lock on and comes undone
with any movement at all, and in an airplane you would certainly have
movement.

There is a wealth of devices out there.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Doug" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> >> Yes, but are they SATELLITE to receiver weather? Does any other vendor
> >> use the XMradio satellite weather data?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/fl210True.php

[Sam Spade]

Doug wrote:
> Interesting. One thing I noticed, a USB port? I certainly hope they did
> not use that standard USB plug. It does not lock on and comes undone
> with any movement at all, and in an airplane you would certainly have
> movement.
>
>

Not to mention all the dangling wires shown in the vendor's photos of
typical cockpits. Dangling wires and IFR just don't do well together.

[Peter Clark]

On 16 Nov 2006 18:24:16 -0800, "Doug" >
wrote:

>Yes, but are they SATELLITE to receiver weather? Does any other vendor
>use the XMradio satellite weather data?

Doesn't WSI now have a satellite system, or are they just using
wxworx?

[Kobra]

>The 496's screen is very
> restrictive in what it can show, by comparison.
>

Jay,

If I were you I'd borrow someone's 396/496, mount it on your yoke as
pictured in your photo. I think after 2 or 3 flights you won't be
complaining about the screen size. All the cardinal information is fit
nicely into that screen without having to squint.

If you need to see further out in front of you just zoom out. I don't think
what is important is the size as much as the resolution...and the resolution
on the x96's is pretty darn good.

Kobra

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Kobra" > wrote

> Jay,
>
> If I were you I'd borrow someone's 396/496, mount it on your yoke as
> pictured in your photo. I think after 2 or 3 flights you won't be
> complaining about the screen size.

He has his own 496, already.
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck]

> >The 496's screen is very
> > restrictive in what it can show, by comparison.
>
> If I were you I'd borrow someone's 396/496, mount it on your yoke as
> pictured in your photo. I think after 2 or 3 flights you won't be
> complaining about the screen size. All the cardinal information is fit
> nicely into that screen without having to squint.

Actually, I own the 496, and have it mounted on the co-pilot's yoke
(since it requires so much "head-down" time, we put it over there).
For the pilot we have a Lowrance 2000c, which IMHO is a superior basic
moving map GPS.

We have flown quite a few hours with the 496 since purchasing it at
OSH, and have been very disappointed with its diminutive size. I
thought we would get used to it, but neither Mary nor I have. The
bottom line is that once you've flown with a good-sized GPS like the
AvMap, it's just very hard to go back to a dinky screen.

I love having the weather, though. For that reason alone it was a
worthwhile trade, going from the AvMap to the 496 -- but it's just too
bad that we have to choose between size and weather. You'd think that
for almost three grand we could do better.

Incidentally, if the stars ever align properly (weather, my schedule,
and shop schedule) I am having the 496 installed into an AirGizmo
"panel dock" -- which will essentially turn it into a panel-mounted
GPS. At the same time we're having the 496's XM radio output routed
into our intercom, and all that nasty wiring (XM satellite antenna, GPS
antenna, power cord, and XM music-to-intercom wiring) will disappear.
It'll be nice to have the co-pilot's yoke back, and all that
gobbledygook wiring gone.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Al G[_1_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> >The 496's screen is very
>> > restrictive in what it can show, by comparison.
>>

snip

> Incidentally, if the stars ever align properly (weather, my schedule,
> and shop schedule) I am having the 496 installed into an AirGizmo
> "panel dock" -- which will essentially turn it into a panel-mounted
> GPS.

Just a quick note, get the "panel dock" with the "angle" built in so the
Pilot can see it. I fly a P210, with a 496 in the standard panel mount on
the right side. The co-pilot can see it, but the pilot can't.


Al G

[Sam Spade]

Peter Clark wrote:
> On 16 Nov 2006 18:24:16 -0800, "Doug" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Yes, but are they SATELLITE to receiver weather? Does any other vendor
>>use the XMradio satellite weather data?
>
>
> Doesn't WSI now have a satellite system, or are they just using
> wxworx?

Info on WSI. They are switching to Sirius.

http://tinyurl.com/yms3zw

[Jay Honeck]

> Just a quick note, get the "panel dock" with the "angle" built in so the
> Pilot can see it. I fly a P210, with a 496 in the standard panel mount on
> the right side. The co-pilot can see it, but the pilot can't.

Roger that. I've got the angle piece from AirGizmos -- just waiting to
have it installed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Doug[_1_]]

My experience with the handheld computers (and laptops) is they are not
as good as the dedicated handhelds (garmin etc). Mainly becuae the
garmins are made to be operated in an aircraft environment. The others
have chord, display, and button problems that are not idealized for the
pilot.