"Tombstone" agency splitting hairs again

[BillyJack]

A close call between two planes at O'Hare Airport this
summer was closer than originally reported.

The National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday that
an Atlas Air cargo plane and a United Airlines jet came
within 35 feet of colliding on July 23 -- not 300 feet as
reported back in July by the Federal Aviation Administration.

The incident was one of the most serious in a string of
runway incursions at O'Hare this year.


http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/136427,CST-NWS-ntsb15.article

[Jim Macklin]

I'd like to see a study that breaks down the involvement of
US citizen pilots and foreign pilots in those incursions and
near mid airs. It has been my experience that pilots from
certain places in the world have a very casual attitude
about such things.



"BillyJack" > wrote in message
...
|
| A close call between two planes at O'Hare Airport this
| summer was closer than originally reported.
|
| The National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday that
| an Atlas Air cargo plane and a United Airlines jet came
| within 35 feet of colliding on July 23 -- not 300 feet as
| reported back in July by the Federal Aviation
Administration.
|
| The incident was one of the most serious in a string of
| runway incursions at O'Hare this year.
|
|
|
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/136427,CST-NWS-ntsb15.article

[Barney Rubble]

Come on spill the beans, which race are you disparaging, based on your
entirely scientific study?

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
...
> I'd like to see a study that breaks down the involvement of
> US citizen pilots and foreign pilots in those incursions and
> near mid airs. It has been my experience that pilots from
> certain places in the world have a very casual attitude
> about such things.
>
>
>
> "BillyJack" > wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | A close call between two planes at O'Hare Airport this
> | summer was closer than originally reported.
> |
> | The National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday that
> | an Atlas Air cargo plane and a United Airlines jet came
> | within 35 feet of colliding on July 23 -- not 300 feet as
> | reported back in July by the Federal Aviation
> Administration.
> |
> | The incident was one of the most serious in a string of
> | runway incursions at O'Hare this year.
> |
> |
> |
> http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/136427,CST-NWS-ntsb15.article
>
>

[Jim Macklin]

Not race, culture, some cultures have a rather dangerous
attitude about process and procedures.


"Barney Rubble" > wrote in message
...
| Come on spill the beans, which race are you disparaging,
based on your
| entirely scientific study?
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| ...
| > I'd like to see a study that breaks down the involvement
of
| > US citizen pilots and foreign pilots in those incursions
and
| > near mid airs. It has been my experience that pilots
from
| > certain places in the world have a very casual attitude
| > about such things.
| >
| >
| >
| > "BillyJack" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > |
| > | A close call between two planes at O'Hare Airport this
| > | summer was closer than originally reported.
| > |
| > | The National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday
that
| > | an Atlas Air cargo plane and a United Airlines jet
came
| > | within 35 feet of colliding on July 23 -- not 300 feet
as
| > | reported back in July by the Federal Aviation
| > Administration.
| > |
| > | The incident was one of the most serious in a string
of
| > | runway incursions at O'Hare this year.
| > |
| > |
| > |
| >
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/136427,CST-NWS-ntsb15.article
| >
| >
|
|

[Roy N5804F]

Come on Jim, You are standing on the edge !
Every culture [and race] has the proverbial bad apple, but to generalize
about a culture [or race] is just off the wall.

Roy
Piper Archer N5804F


"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
...
>
> Not race, culture, some cultures have a rather dangerous
> attitude about process and procedures.
>
>
> "Barney Rubble" > wrote in message
> ...
> | Come on spill the beans, which race are you disparaging,
> based on your
> | entirely scientific study?
> |
> | "Jim Macklin" > wrote
> in message
> | ...
> | > I'd like to see a study that breaks down the involvement
> of
> | > US citizen pilots and foreign pilots in those incursions
> and
> | > near mid airs. It has been my experience that pilots
> from
> | > certain places in the world have a very casual attitude
> | > about such things.
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > "BillyJack" > wrote in message
> | > ...
> | > |
> | > | A close call between two planes at O'Hare Airport this
> | > | summer was closer than originally reported.
> | > |
> | > | The National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday
> that
> | > | an Atlas Air cargo plane and a United Airlines jet
> came
> | > | within 35 feet of colliding on July 23 -- not 300 feet
> as
> | > | reported back in July by the Federal Aviation
> | > Administration.
> | > |
> | > | The incident was one of the most serious in a string
> of
> | > | runway incursions at O'Hare this year.
> | > |
> | > |
> | > |
> | >
> http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/136427,CST-NWS-ntsb15.article
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
>
>
>

[Jim Macklin]

No, to ignore actual difference is dangerous. Case in
point, several years ago an airliner with a 100 passengers
crashed on Long Island. There were many survivors since
there was no fire fire. No fuel remained on the airplane
which had held over the ocean because the pilots did not
seek emergency handling, even though they knew they were
running out of fuel. They also knew that the NYC area had
bad weather and long delays but they did not divert and land
at the dozens of airports from Miami to NYC and New
England. This was clearly a machismo thing.

I isn't about race, skin color or even religion. It is
about culture. If you don't understand the difference, take
a few courses.



"Roy N5804F" > wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| Come on Jim, You are standing on the edge !
| Every culture [and race] has the proverbial bad apple, but
to generalize
| about a culture [or race] is just off the wall.
|
| Roy
| Piper Archer N5804F
|
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| ...
| >
| > Not race, culture, some cultures have a rather dangerous
| > attitude about process and procedures.
| >
| >
| > "Barney Rubble" > wrote in
message
| > ...
| > | Come on spill the beans, which race are you
disparaging,
| > based on your
| > | entirely scientific study?
| > |
| > | "Jim Macklin" >
wrote
| > in message
| > | ...
| > | > I'd like to see a study that breaks down the
involvement
| > of
| > | > US citizen pilots and foreign pilots in those
incursions
| > and
| > | > near mid airs. It has been my experience that
pilots
| > from
| > | > certain places in the world have a very casual
attitude
| > | > about such things.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "BillyJack" > wrote in message
| > | > ...
| > | > |
| > | > | A close call between two planes at O'Hare Airport
this
| > | > | summer was closer than originally reported.
| > | > |
| > | > | The National Transportation Safety Board said
Tuesday
| > that
| > | > | an Atlas Air cargo plane and a United Airlines jet
| > came
| > | > | within 35 feet of colliding on July 23 -- not 300
feet
| > as
| > | > | reported back in July by the Federal Aviation
| > | > Administration.
| > | > |
| > | > | The incident was one of the most serious in a
string
| > of
| > | > | runway incursions at O'Hare this year.
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| >
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/136427,CST-NWS-ntsb15.article
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
| >
|
|
|

[Jose[_1_]]

> This was clearly a machismo thing.

Was it?

Could it also have been a timidity thing? In this country, the pilot(s)
in command has the absolute final say on what goes on in the plane.
It's even written into the FARs. This might not be true in the other
countries. For example (I know, not a parallel), I'm told by pilots who
once flew there that in Mexico, flights have to be dispatched by a
military commander.

These kinds of differences will manifest themselves in training and
attitude in the cockpit. They may have simply been "afraid of the
anticipated mountain of paperwork" not realizing (deep down) that
nothing like that would occur in this country for declaring an emergency
and doing whatever was necessary to meet the emergency.

That would be the opposite of machismo.

Not everything can be blamed on culture.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jim Macklin]

you just blamed Mexican culture.




"Jose" > wrote in message
om...
|> This was clearly a machismo thing.
|
| Was it?
|
| Could it also have been a timidity thing? In this
country, the pilot(s)
| in command has the absolute final say on what goes on in
the plane.
| It's even written into the FARs. This might not be true
in the other
| countries. For example (I know, not a parallel), I'm told
by pilots who
| once flew there that in Mexico, flights have to be
dispatched by a
| military commander.
|
| These kinds of differences will manifest themselves in
training and
| attitude in the cockpit. They may have simply been
"afraid of the
| anticipated mountain of paperwork" not realizing (deep
down) that
| nothing like that would occur in this country for
declaring an emergency
| and doing whatever was necessary to meet the emergency.
|
| That would be the opposite of machismo.
|
| Not everything can be blamed on culture.
|
| Jose
| --
| "Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you
can't see where
| it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry
Potter).
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[BillyJack]

It was actually a Columbian airliner
Running on fumes and augured in
I remember that one

Jim Macklin wrote:
> you just blamed Mexican culture.
>
>
>
>
> "Jose" > wrote in message
> om...
> |> This was clearly a machismo thing.
> |
> | Was it?
> |
> | Could it also have been a timidity thing? In this
> country, the pilot(s)
> | in command has the absolute final say on what goes on in
> the plane.
> | It's even written into the FARs. This might not be true
> in the other
> | countries. For example (I know, not a parallel), I'm told
> by pilots who
> | once flew there that in Mexico, flights have to be
> dispatched by a
> | military commander.
> |
> | These kinds of differences will manifest themselves in
> training and
> | attitude in the cockpit. They may have simply been
> "afraid of the
> | anticipated mountain of paperwork" not realizing (deep
> down) that
> | nothing like that would occur in this country for
> declaring an emergency
> | and doing whatever was necessary to meet the emergency.
> |
> | That would be the opposite of machismo.
> |
> | Not everything can be blamed on culture.
> |
> | Jose
> | --
> | "Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you
> can't see where
> | it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry
> Potter).
> | for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"Barney Rubble" > wrote in message
...
> Come on spill the beans, which race are you disparaging, based on your
> entirely scientific study?

Whoever they are, they probably have better comprehension of the English
language than you do. (It wouldn't take much)


>
> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'd like to see a study that breaks down the involvement of
>> US citizen pilots and foreign pilots in those incursions and
>> near mid airs. It has been my experience that pilots from
>> certain places in the world have a very casual attitude
>> about such things.
>>

[Matt Barrow]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
...
> you just blamed Mexican culture.

Latino?

> |
> | That would be the opposite of machismo.
> |
> | Not everything can be blamed on culture.

An individual's approach to life is reflected in their philosophy.

For groups, it their culture.

Just as some individuals prosper, live well, etc., and some aren't worth the
gallon of gas it would take to blow them up, the same holds for a culture.

I leave it to you all to figure out the characteristics.

[Jim Macklin]

yep, that is the one.



"BillyJack" > wrote in message
...
| It was actually a Columbian airliner
| Running on fumes and augured in
| I remember that one
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > you just blamed Mexican culture.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > "Jose" > wrote in message
| > om...
| > |> This was clearly a machismo thing.
| > |
| > | Was it?
| > |
| > | Could it also have been a timidity thing? In this
| > country, the pilot(s)
| > | in command has the absolute final say on what goes on
in
| > the plane.
| > | It's even written into the FARs. This might not be
true
| > in the other
| > | countries. For example (I know, not a parallel), I'm
told
| > by pilots who
| > | once flew there that in Mexico, flights have to be
| > dispatched by a
| > | military commander.
| > |
| > | These kinds of differences will manifest themselves in
| > training and
| > | attitude in the cockpit. They may have simply been
| > "afraid of the
| > | anticipated mountain of paperwork" not realizing (deep
| > down) that
| > | nothing like that would occur in this country for
| > declaring an emergency
| > | and doing whatever was necessary to meet the
emergency.
| > |
| > | That would be the opposite of machismo.
| > |
| > | Not everything can be blamed on culture.
| > |
| > | Jose
| > | --
| > | "Never trust anything that can think for itself, if
you
| > can't see where
| > | it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry
| > Potter).
| > | for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
| >
| >

[Jim Macklin]

Maybe even Spanish. And how much Spanish culture is Arab?
This could go on a long time.

Our Puritan culture makes nudity very double-edged. On one
hand women's breast are to be covered and on the other, they
are objects of great interest. In other parts of the world
breasts are not an issue.


"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| ...
| > you just blamed Mexican culture.
|
| Latino?
|
| > |
| > | That would be the opposite of machismo.
| > |
| > | Not everything can be blamed on culture.
|
| An individual's approach to life is reflected in their
philosophy.
|
| For groups, it their culture.
|
| Just as some individuals prosper, live well, etc., and
some aren't worth the
| gallon of gas it would take to blow them up, the same
holds for a culture.
|
| I leave it to you all to figure out the characteristics.
|
|

[Jose[_1_]]

> you just blamed Mexican culture.

No, I used one example with which I was familiar (Mexican Law) to
illustrate that something that looks like machismo could actually be its
opposite, and also to illustrate that what looks like culture may
actually be something else (legality).

The incident in question did not involve (AFAIK) Mexican pilots, they
were from a different country.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jose[_1_]]

> An individual's approach to life is reflected in their philosophy.
> For groups, it their culture.

Philosophy and culture are not the be-all and end-all you make it seem.
What makes people =individual= is how they differ from each other, and
from whatever cultural stereotypes you measure by. The Columbian
airliner was flown by an individual, not by a culture.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Matt Barrow]

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
...
> yep, that is the one.
>

Maybe this one? http://www.joesharkey.com (the reporter aboard the Legacy
jet).

>
>
> "BillyJack" > wrote in message
> ...
> | It was actually a Columbian airliner
> | Running on fumes and augured in
> | I remember that one
> |
> | Jim Macklin wrote:
> | > you just blamed Mexican culture.
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > "Jose" > wrote in message
> | > om...
> | > |> This was clearly a machismo thing.
> | > |
> | > | Was it?
> | > |
> | > | Could it also have been a timidity thing? In this
> | > country, the pilot(s)
> | > | in command has the absolute final say on what goes on
> in
> | > the plane.
> | > | It's even written into the FARs. This might not be
> true
> | > in the other
> | > | countries. For example (I know, not a parallel), I'm
> told
> | > by pilots who
> | > | once flew there that in Mexico, flights have to be
> | > dispatched by a
> | > | military commander.
> | > |
> | > | These kinds of differences will manifest themselves in
> | > training and
> | > | attitude in the cockpit. They may have simply been
> | > "afraid of the
> | > | anticipated mountain of paperwork" not realizing (deep
> | > down) that
> | > | nothing like that would occur in this country for
> | > declaring an emergency
> | > | and doing whatever was necessary to meet the
> emergency.
> | > |
> | > | That would be the opposite of machismo.
> | > |
> | > | Not everything can be blamed on culture.
> | > |
> | > | Jose
> | > | --
> | > | "Never trust anything that can think for itself, if
> you
> | > can't see where
> | > | it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry
> | > Potter).
> | > | for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
> | >
> | >
>
>

[Barney Rubble]

What was wrong with my question? It was grammatically correct and
succinct.... WTF is your problem and who asked you to chime in anyway? Back
in your cage monkey.


"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Barney Rubble" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Come on spill the beans, which race are you disparaging, based on your
>> entirely scientific study?
>
> Whoever they are, they probably have better comprehension of the English
> language than you do. (It wouldn't take much)
>
>
>>
>> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I'd like to see a study that breaks down the involvement of
>>> US citizen pilots and foreign pilots in those incursions and
>>> near mid airs. It has been my experience that pilots from
>>> certain places in the world have a very casual attitude
>>> about such things.
>>>
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"Barney Rubble" > wrote in message
...
> What was wrong with my question?

Other than it didn'tm in any way, address his actual remarks...?

> It was grammatically correct and succinct....

It had no relation to what he said. IOW, it was a stream of words with no
bearing to the point he made.

>WTF is your problem and who asked you to chime in anyway?

If you don't want reponses from the public, post to private email.

As I said, pay a bit more attention to your reading compre

> Back in your cage monkey.

Head out of your ass, SFB. I've got better things to do than give you
lessons that you should have picked up in elementary school.

>
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Barney Rubble" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Come on spill the beans, which race are you disparaging, based on your
>>> entirely scientific study?
>>
>> Whoever they are, they probably have better comprehension of the English
>> language than you do. (It wouldn't take much)
>>
>>
>>>
>>> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I'd like to see a study that breaks down the involvement of
>>>> US citizen pilots and foreign pilots in those incursions and
>>>> near mid airs. It has been my experience that pilots from
>>>> certain places in the world have a very casual attitude
>>>> about such things.
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Roger[_4_]]

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 06:05:58 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>
>"Barney Rubble" > wrote in message
...
>> Come on spill the beans, which race are you disparaging, based on your
>> entirely scientific study?
>
>Whoever they are, they probably have better comprehension of the English
>language than you do. (It wouldn't take much)

As I recall, according to the NTSB one of the contributing factors was
a lack of English language skills and quite likely not knowing they
should have declared a urgent fuel situation before it became an
emergency situation before it became a messy situation.


>
>
>>
>> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I'd like to see a study that breaks down the involvement of
>>> US citizen pilots and foreign pilots in those incursions and
>>> near mid airs. It has been my experience that pilots from
>>> certain places in the world have a very casual attitude
>>> about such things.
>>>
>
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com