The Good, the Bad, the Ugly: AirGizmo PIREP, PS Engineering CD/Intercom woes, XM "service"

[Jay Honeck]

********************
The Good:
********************
Yesterday we had our 496 "panel docked" with the installation of an
"AirGizmo". (See them here: http://www.airgizmos.com/) It's just
about he slickest installation you can imagine, and really cleans up
the cockpit. All the wiring is neatly behind the panel, everything is
professionally wired (no more cigar lighter splitters zip tied under
the panel) -- and it looks great.

I bought the new "angle piece" that cocks the unit a bit toward the
pilot's position, which is wonderful. The view from either position is
clear, and everything is easily within reach. I can't say enough good
things about this unit, and -- best of all -- your shop can do the
install with nothing more than a logbook entry.

********************
The Bad:
********************
At the same time, we had the avionics shop connect the 496's XM radio
output to our PS Engineering CD/Intercom, with the obvious goal of
being able to play the radio through our headsets. This seemingly
simple task has turned out to be quite a difficult thing to accomplish,
strangely enough, and will require another visit to the shop next week.
Here's why:

The pin inputs on the intercom are "Music 2" and "Auxilliary". "Music
2" feeds ONLY the back two seats, which allows my kids to listen to
music different from what Mary and are hearing. "Auxiliary" (the
avionics boys discovered only after completing the installation) only
feeds the PILOT position. Only the pilot can hear anything.

The unit was designed before the proliferation of Ipods and MP3
players, so apparently PS Engineering made no accommodation for an
auxillary music input that feeds all four positions! Additionally, the
auxiliary input does not "auto-squelch" when ATC starts talking, which
required the shop to install a "kill switch" in the panel so that I can
cut the music quickly if needed.

The avionics boys wanted to experiment with a few things, to see how
they could effectively feed all four positions without interfering with
the unit's "Intellivox" auto-squelch -- but we ran out of time. It was
getting late, and we had to be home to meet family coming in for the
holiday, so we had to depart. Just as well, as Tony (the head of the
shop) wants time to diagram and study the circuitry in more detail
before they started running experimental patch cords all over the
place...

Anyone got any theories? How can we feed all four intercom positions
using the PS Engineering PCD7100? See the wiring diagram here:
http://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/PCD7100I_Wire.pdf

********************
The Ugly
********************
Anyone used XM's automated "customer service" phone system? What a
joke!

If you don't know the phone number you gave them when you signed up
(I've got four possibilities, and chose the wrong one), the next thing
the system will ask for is the special "XM" number on your unit. (Which
was in the panel of the plane, which was being worked on at that moment
and inaccessible to me.) There is no way to go BACK to give the
automated "Bitchin' Betty" a different phone number.

Eventually, after yelling at the automated hag for ten minutes, I was
connected to someone in India who had NO idea how to do anything with
an aviation customer. After being put on hold for five minutes I was
at last connected with a very sweet (and competent) girl in Texas who
was able to activate my music option and downgrade my aviation service
from "Premium" to "Regular" for the winter. When I finally got her,
the whole process took maybe 90 seconds.

What a PIA to deal with! My advice to XM -- hire some more customer
service reps, and Deep Six the automated system.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[houstondan]

when removing the 496 from the docking station, i assume you still have
to individually disconnect all the many power, antenna and audio
connections?

dan

[karl gruber[_1_]]

Maybe you can hard wire this thing in there to cancel the music during ATC.
http://www.marvgolden.com/headsets/psengmuse.htm

Karl


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> ********************
> The Good:
> ********************
> Yesterday we had our 496 "panel docked" with the installation of an
> "AirGizmo". (See them here: http://www.airgizmos.com/) It's just
> about he slickest installation you can imagine, and really cleans up
> the cockpit. All the wiring is neatly behind the panel, everything is
> professionally wired (no more cigar lighter splitters zip tied under
> the panel) -- and it looks great.
>
> I bought the new "angle piece" that cocks the unit a bit toward the
> pilot's position, which is wonderful. The view from either position is
> clear, and everything is easily within reach. I can't say enough good
> things about this unit, and -- best of all -- your shop can do the
> install with nothing more than a logbook entry.
>
> ********************
> The Bad:
> ********************
> At the same time, we had the avionics shop connect the 496's XM radio
> output to our PS Engineering CD/Intercom, with the obvious goal of
> being able to play the radio through our headsets. This seemingly
> simple task has turned out to be quite a difficult thing to accomplish,
> strangely enough, and will require another visit to the shop next week.
> Here's why:
>
> The pin inputs on the intercom are "Music 2" and "Auxilliary". "Music
> 2" feeds ONLY the back two seats, which allows my kids to listen to
> music different from what Mary and are hearing. "Auxiliary" (the
> avionics boys discovered only after completing the installation) only
> feeds the PILOT position. Only the pilot can hear anything.
>
> The unit was designed before the proliferation of Ipods and MP3
> players, so apparently PS Engineering made no accommodation for an
> auxillary music input that feeds all four positions! Additionally, the
> auxiliary input does not "auto-squelch" when ATC starts talking, which
> required the shop to install a "kill switch" in the panel so that I can
> cut the music quickly if needed.
>
> The avionics boys wanted to experiment with a few things, to see how
> they could effectively feed all four positions without interfering with
> the unit's "Intellivox" auto-squelch -- but we ran out of time. It was
> getting late, and we had to be home to meet family coming in for the
> holiday, so we had to depart. Just as well, as Tony (the head of the
> shop) wants time to diagram and study the circuitry in more detail
> before they started running experimental patch cords all over the
> place...
>
> Anyone got any theories? How can we feed all four intercom positions
> using the PS Engineering PCD7100? See the wiring diagram here:
> http://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/PCD7100I_Wire.pdf
>
> ********************
> The Ugly
> ********************
> Anyone used XM's automated "customer service" phone system? What a
> joke!
>
> If you don't know the phone number you gave them when you signed up
> (I've got four possibilities, and chose the wrong one), the next thing
> the system will ask for is the special "XM" number on your unit. (Which
> was in the panel of the plane, which was being worked on at that moment
> and inaccessible to me.) There is no way to go BACK to give the
> automated "Bitchin' Betty" a different phone number.
>
> Eventually, after yelling at the automated hag for ten minutes, I was
> connected to someone in India who had NO idea how to do anything with
> an aviation customer. After being put on hold for five minutes I was
> at last connected with a very sweet (and competent) girl in Texas who
> was able to activate my music option and downgrade my aviation service
> from "Premium" to "Regular" for the winter. When I finally got her,
> the whole process took maybe 90 seconds.
>
> What a PIA to deal with! My advice to XM -- hire some more customer
> service reps, and Deep Six the automated system.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck]

> when removing the 496 from the docking station, i assume you still have
> to individually disconnect all the many power, antenna and audio
> connections?

Yep. But there's enough "slack" in them to make that a fairly easy
proposition.

Getting it back in the AirGizmo looks like a pain, though, as you have
to kinda "thread" the wiring through appropriate holes in the back of
the panel dock. Luckily, I've now got an extra power cord (the shop
used a new one for the installation, rather than hacking up my old
one), for the inevitable day when that stupid 90-degree power connector
breaks...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"Jay Honeck" > writes:

> Yesterday we had our 496 "panel docked" with the installation of an
> "AirGizmo". (See them here: http://www.airgizmos.com/) [...] I
> can't say enough good things about this unit, and -- best of all --
> your shop can do the install with nothing more than a logbook entry.
> [...]

Just curious, but sort of FAA-style authorization permits such a
modification to a certified airplane without at least a field
approval? As already spotted during an earlier thread here,
even the manufacturer says otherwise:

http://www.airgizmos.com/faq.asp

- FChE

[Jay Honeck]

> Just curious, but sort of FAA-style authorization permits such a
> modification to a certified airplane without at least a field
> approval?

The FSDO in Des Moines.

Installation of an AirGizmo is considered a minor modification. The
GPS is still portable and removeable, all you're doing is running some
wires.

This according to McCandless Aviation in Waterloo, IA.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Newps]

Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:

> "Jay Honeck" > writes:
>
>
>>Yesterday we had our 496 "panel docked" with the installation of an
>>"AirGizmo". (See them here: http://www.airgizmos.com/) [...] I
>>can't say enough good things about this unit, and -- best of all --
>>your shop can do the install with nothing more than a logbook entry.
>>[...]
>
>
> Just curious, but sort of FAA-style authorization permits such a
> modification to a certified airplane without at least a field
> approval? As already spotted during an earlier thread here,
> even the manufacturer says otherwise:
>
> http://www.airgizmos.com/faq.asp


It is irrelavant what the manufacturer says. The manufacturer either
gets an STC or forfeits any ability to tell you how to install their
product. A casual reading of the regs shows that installing one of
these docks is a minor alteration.

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> Anyone got any theories? How can we feed all four intercom positions
> using the PS Engineering PCD7100?
>

PSE has the most responsive customer service department. Have your
mechanics ask them.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[[email protected]]

> The pin inputs on the intercom are "Music 2" and "Auxilliary". *"Music
> 2" feeds ONLY the back two seats, which allows my kids to listen to
> music different from what Mary and are hearing. "Auxiliary" (the
> avionics boys discovered only after completing the installation) only
> feeds the PILOT position. *Only the pilot can hear anything.

Actually, I'm not sure exactly what one is calling The Auxillary if it
is anything other than the SWITCHED Auxillary input that is activated
by the AUX front panel pushbutton.

There is a Music #1 which will be heard by the pilot and copilot while
Music #2 will be heard by the passengers.
>
> The unit was designed before the proliferation of Ipods and MP3
> players, so apparently PS Engineering made no accommodation for an
> auxillary music input that feeds all four positions! *

Your description of the operation is correct, but it wasn't because the
PMA7000CD was designed before many of the portable MP3 players came
out, it was because we learned a lot from our original design of the
PMA6000 where the intercom mode switch controlled who heard Music #1.
Because this function switches music inside the audio panel, it limited
the amount of flexibility of who hears what when.

This is why when we designed the PMA7000 Series we made the music
distribution simple, #1 to Crew, #2 to the passengers. With the
installation of one or two switches, the combinations of who hears what
is significant.


Additionally, the
> auxiliary input does not "auto-squelch" when ATC starts talking, which
> required the shop to install a "kill switch" in the panel so that I can
> cut the music quickly if needed.\

This I don't understand. The Mute button on the front panel of the
PMA7000CD places Music #1 for the crew in the Mute or Karoake Mode. The
passengers can also have this feature, but a SPST switch is required to
allow them to make this change "on the fly"

>
> The avionics boys wanted to experiment with a few things, to see how
> they could effectively feed all four positions without interfering with
> the unit's "Intellivox" auto-squelch -- but we ran out of time. *It was
> getting late, and we had to be home to meet family coming in for the
> holiday, so we had to depart. *Just as well, as Tony (the head of the
> shop) wants time to diagram and study the circuitry in more detail
> before they started running experimental patch cords all over the
> place...

Please have your shop call me at PS Engineering and I'll be glad to
help them. There is actually a wiring diagram discribing this exactly
in the installation manual. You can download this manual by going to
www.ps-engineering.com/downloads.shtml
>
Jay, please let me know how I can help, I'll do what ever I can to make
sure that the Bad turns into AWESOME!

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.
www.ps-engineering.com

[Newps]

wrote:

>
> This is why when we designed the PMA7000 Series we made the music
> distribution simple, #1 to Crew, #2 to the passengers. With the
> installation of one or two switches, the combinations of who hears what
> is significant.

You're a little vague here. Are you saying there's no single input so
all four positions get the same music feed from a single music in jack?

[BigBadBrad]

This is what I love about these forums...I swear, I am ready to trade in
the Garmin 340 audio panel my partner/brother and I bought a couple of years
ago, and have yet to install in our Skyhawk, for a PS Engineering unit
based, almost solely on these posts!

Mark, your representation of your company and technical knowledge of your
product is an awesome example that some companies still care.
Good on ya!

Brad Boss
Co-Owner 1967 C-172H N3916R
MH-47 Flight Engineer by night....


> wrote in message
ups.com...


> The pin inputs on the intercom are "Music 2" and "Auxilliary". "Music
> 2" feeds ONLY the back two seats, which allows my kids to listen to
> music different from what Mary and are hearing. "Auxiliary" (the
> avionics boys discovered only after completing the installation) only
> feeds the PILOT position. Only the pilot can hear anything.

Actually, I'm not sure exactly what one is calling The Auxillary if it
is anything other than the SWITCHED Auxillary input that is activated
by the AUX front panel pushbutton.

There is a Music #1 which will be heard by the pilot and copilot while
Music #2 will be heard by the passengers.
>
> The unit was designed before the proliferation of Ipods and MP3
> players, so apparently PS Engineering made no accommodation for an
> auxillary music input that feeds all four positions!

Your description of the operation is correct, but it wasn't because the
PMA7000CD was designed before many of the portable MP3 players came
out, it was because we learned a lot from our original design of the
PMA6000 where the intercom mode switch controlled who heard Music #1.
Because this function switches music inside the audio panel, it limited
the amount of flexibility of who hears what when.

This is why when we designed the PMA7000 Series we made the music
distribution simple, #1 to Crew, #2 to the passengers. With the
installation of one or two switches, the combinations of who hears what
is significant.


Additionally, the
> auxiliary input does not "auto-squelch" when ATC starts talking, which
> required the shop to install a "kill switch" in the panel so that I can
> cut the music quickly if needed.\

This I don't understand. The Mute button on the front panel of the
PMA7000CD places Music #1 for the crew in the Mute or Karoake Mode. The
passengers can also have this feature, but a SPST switch is required to
allow them to make this change "on the fly"

>
> The avionics boys wanted to experiment with a few things, to see how
> they could effectively feed all four positions without interfering with
> the unit's "Intellivox" auto-squelch -- but we ran out of time. It was
> getting late, and we had to be home to meet family coming in for the
> holiday, so we had to depart. Just as well, as Tony (the head of the
> shop) wants time to diagram and study the circuitry in more detail
> before they started running experimental patch cords all over the
> place...

Please have your shop call me at PS Engineering and I'll be glad to
help them. There is actually a wiring diagram discribing this exactly
in the installation manual. You can download this manual by going to
www.ps-engineering.com/downloads.shtml
>
Jay, please let me know how I can help, I'll do what ever I can to make
sure that the Bad turns into AWESOME!

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.
www.ps-engineering.com

[Newps]

BigBadBrad wrote:

> This is what I love about these forums...I swear, I am ready to trade in
> the Garmin 340 audio panel my partner/brother and I bought a couple of years
> ago, and have yet to install in our Skyhawk, for a PS Engineering unit
> based, almost solely on these posts!

I've had both. What would make you swap them?

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, please let me know how I can help, I'll do what ever I can to make
> sure that the Bad turns into AWESOME!

Mark, what in the heck are you doing here, answering technical
questions on Thanksgiving Day???

:-)

I'll pass along your advice to Tony, and you can expect to hear from
him in the next few days. Thanks a lot for the timely advice!

Blues skies...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> Mark, what in the heck are you doing here, answering technical
> questions on Thanksgiving Day???
>

Oh, and just so you have an idea who Mark is, have a look at his last
name - and ask yourself what the S in PS Engineering...

As I said, outstanding customer service.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[[email protected]]

Sorry, didn't mean to be vague.

Music #1 goes to the Crew (Pilot and Copilot); Music #2 goes to the
passengers (up to four passengers).

Without some external switching means, it is not possible for all to
hear one source.

However, unlike our competition and our PMA6000, it is possible to
create many different music distribution combinations, thus providing
flexibility in who hears what. While this does require an external
switch, please know that the competition's unit as well as our PMA6000,
no matter how many external switches you install, you are stuck with
the fact that these audio panels switch the music inside the unit. And
that switching is linked to the intercom mode switch. What this means
is that the audio panel dictates who hears what music when.

While I know external switches adds costs to the installation, the good
news is that the PMA7000 doesn't require any other external switches,
other than the ones discussed above, where our competition requires at
least two. One for changing the music gain level and one to allow the
music NOT to mute during intercom activity. The PMA7000 doesn't require
a gain switch and the muting is on the front panel. (for the crew only,
and external switch is required if the passengers want the Karaoke
mode).

With our recent introduction of the PMA8000B, NO EXTERNAL SWITCHES are
required at all. Thanks to the front panel user selectable audio panel
configuration control, you can send music from Music #1, Music #2, and
the front panel utility jack, where you want it to go just be selecting
what you want the audio panel to do, from the front panel!

Someone asked, "Why would you exchange a GMA340 for a PS Engineering
audio panel? Excellent question! Here's a link that will give you some
very good reasons, IMHO, that should be considered when making that
decision. Go to www.ps-engineering.com/pma8000b.shtml and then click on
the word INCOMPARABLE. There you will see information that really isn't
available anywhere else.

I didn't have the intention to turn this reply into a sales pitch, so I
apologize if this offends anyone, but the question was raised and I
felt compelled to answer.

And thank you to those who have been so supportive of us over the
years. This business is one my passions (my family is the other) and I
just get the biggest kick when we win business from a competitor who
can be described as nothing short of awesome. Thank goodness they
haven't focused on this audio stuff like we have over the last 21
years. And Innovation will continue to drive the direction of PS
Engineering; it's what separates us from the rest of the pack.


Again, thank you very much.

Sincerely,
Mark


Newps wrote:

You're a little vague here. Are you saying there's no single input so
all four positions get the same music feed from a single music in jack?

[Jay Honeck]

> Oh, and just so you have an idea who Mark is, have a look at his last
> name - and ask yourself what the S in PS Engineering...

I know. I've purchased two PS Engineering intercom/CD players (one for
each of the planes I've owned), and loved them both -- largely due to
Mark's timely commentary and expert advice here on the 'groups.

Incidentally, lest someone think otherwise, I certainly don't blame PS
Engineering for my shop's ignorance of how to hook up XM radio to my
intercom. They were the ones who cavalierly said "Sure, we can do it!"
without apparently having the vaguest notion of how to make it actually
*work* -- which (BTW) fits 100% into my experience with every avionics
upgrade I've ever done.

In fact, when I first arrived at the airport I joked with the head tech
about "Should I make a follow-up appointment right now, or shall we
wait until the end?" At the time we all laughed heartily, but -- in my
limited experience with three different avionics shops -- there has
never yet been an installation that didn't either (a) need to be
tweaked, or (b) caused something else in the panel to become
non-functional.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Without some external switching means, it is not possible for all to
> hear one source.

Hey Mark, one last question, if you're still monitoring this thread:

Using the auxiliary input, the XM radio connection to the pilot's
position is working okay -- but I noticed a pronounced alternator
whine. I'm assuming it's alternator whine because the pitch goes up
and down in synch with engine RPM.

Obviously I'm going to have the shop try to eliminate that during next
week's follow-up visit. Any advice on how they should proceed? (The
whine is NOT there when listening to the intercom or music from the
CD.)

Thanks!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> They were the ones who cavalierly said "Sure, we can do it!"
> without apparently having the vaguest notion of how to make it actually
> *work*
>

My experience with avionics shops here in Germany is similar. What I
don't get is: Why don't they simply call the manufacturer and ask?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Mike Adams[_1_]]

wrote:

> Music #1 goes to the Crew (Pilot and Copilot); Music #2 goes to the
> passengers (up to four passengers).
>
> Without some external switching means, it is not possible for all to
> hear one source.
>

When I had my panel installed, I decided I didn't really need the
flexibility for two separate music sources for the front and back seats, so
just had the two inputs wired together, and connected to an input jack on
the panel. I can just plug in the iPod or CD player and it's available to
all 4 positions with no external switching required.

I have a B/K KMA-28, which is a re-branded PMA7000. It works absolutely
perfectly. I am very pleased with it.

Mike

[Jay Honeck]

> When I had my panel installed, I decided I didn't really need the
> flexibility for two separate music sources for the front and back seats, so
> just had the two inputs wired together, and connected to an input jack on
> the panel. I can just plug in the iPod or CD player and it's available to
> all 4 positions with no external switching required.

That's one solution we talked about, but I would hate to lose that
flexibility.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mike Adams[_1_]]

Jay,

Do you have any pictures posted of the Air Gizmo installation? I'm curious
how it looks, especially with the angle mount. I see they now have a
vertical angle tilt bracket as well, which might be interesting for a
mounting low in the stack.

Mike

[Montblack]

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
>> Jay, please let me know how I can help, I'll do what ever I can to make
>> sure that the Bad turns into AWESOME!
>
> Mark, what in the heck are you doing here, answering technical questions
> on Thanksgiving Day???


His football team was losing... <g>


Montblack

[Newps]

wrote:

>
> Without some external switching means, it is not possible for all to
> hear one source.
>
> However, unlike our competition and our PMA6000, it is possible to
> create many different music distribution combinations, thus providing
> flexibility in who hears what. While this does require an external
> switch, please know that the competition's unit as well as our PMA6000,
> no matter how many external switches you install, you are stuck with
> the fact that these audio panels switch the music inside the unit. And
> that switching is linked to the intercom mode switch. What this means
> is that the audio panel dictates who hears what music when.

I had an earlier one of your intercoms(1000 II) in my 182 and the
Bonanza I bought came with the Garmin. In both cases I had/have a music
in jack and that feeds music to all four seats. The Garmin is stereo
and boy does that sound good compared to an analog unit, much better
than I thought it would. The PM intercom had the Pilot/crew/all switch
but it didn't really do anything, must have been wired that way. The
Garmin has pilot and crew isolate but I never use it. The PM intercom
muted the music when a radio call or somebody talked on the intercom. I
had the avionics shop wire the Garmin so it was in karaoke mode. They
asked if I wanted a switch on the panel for that but I said no and after
having it awhile I've never felt the need to turn off karaoke mode. I'm
not sure why switching the music internally is a bad thing, everybody
hears it and we're good to go. I could install a second music in jack
for the rear seat passengers only but have no need for that.

[[email protected]]

Newps wrote: (Like your screen name by the way, New PS!) How about
that.

> I had an earlier one of your intercoms(1000 II) in my 182 and the
> Bonanza I bought came with the Garmin. *In both cases I had/have a music
> in jack and that feeds music to all four seats.
NOTE: Only when the GARMIN GMA340 is in ALL mode will passengers hear
music,
otherwise (unless music #1 and music #2 are hooked together) passengers
will not hear music when you want to isolate the folks in the rear from
the pilot
and copilot up front.

>*The Garmin is stereo
> and boy does that sound good compared to an analog unit, much better
> than I thought it would.

The GARMIN GMA340 is an analog audio panel, only is the switching means
done by digital electronics. In another words, the audio is not
digitized.

*>The Garmin has pilot and crew isolate but I never use it. *The PM
intercom
> muted the music when a radio call or somebody talked on the intercom. *I
> had the avionics shop wire the Garmin so it was in karaoke mode.

Sorry, the GMA340 does not have our Karoake mode, the switch that your
avionics installed only prevents the intercom from muting the music,
the radio
will continue to mute the music, no way of preventing that from
happening. For me, having
the music go up and down, up and down again and again on long IFR cross
countries is just
an annoyance. So what I do is I enable our "Karoake" mode. and I set
the music level
to a comfortable background level. Of course, I make sure the aircraft
radio is in the
foreground. And if I miss a call, no problem, instead of transmitting
"Say Again", I
just push the playback button on my PMA8000B and there's that message!
*
>They asked if I wanted a switch on the panel for that but I said no and after
> having it awhile I've never felt the need to turn off karaoke mode. *I'm
> not sure why switching the music internally is a bad thing, everybody
> hears it and we're good to go.

See my note above; when you don't want to hear the
conversation from the folks in the back, you must select the Crew mode.

Unfortunately, this action turns the music off for those poor souls.

>I could install a second music in jack
> for the rear seat passengers only but have no need for that.

Again, I hope you don't mind me pointing out these little details, but
that
is what we do, we get the details right. When we don't, our customers
let
us know, and we make the improvements as soon as possible.

Sincerely,
Mark

[Newps]

wrote:


>
>
>>�The Garmin is stereo
>>and boy does that sound good compared to an analog unit, much better
>>than I thought it would.
>
>
> The GARMIN GMA340 is an analog audio panel, only is the switching means
> done by digital electronics. In another words, the audio is not
> digitized.

I wrote that wrong. I meant to say the PM was a mono unit. What is the
benefit to a digital unit versus an analog unit?



>
> �>The Garmin has pilot and crew isolate but I never use it. �The PM
> intercom
>
>>muted the music when a radio call or somebody talked on the intercom. �I
>>had the avionics shop wire the Garmin so it was in karaoke mode.
>
>
> Sorry, the GMA340 does not have our Karoake mode, the switch that your
> avionics installed only prevents the intercom from muting the music,
> the radio
> will continue to mute the music, no way of preventing that from
> happening.

Well yes. That is exactly what I wanted it to do.






>
>
>>I could install a second music in jack
>>for the rear seat passengers only but have no need for that.
>
>
> Again, I hope you don't mind me pointing out these little details, but
> that
> is what we do, we get the details right.

What detail? In order for the people in the back to listen to their own
music and being that they are teenagers there's no way I want to listen
to that crap, a second music in jack would be required.

[Bob Noel]

In article . com>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

[snip]
> In fact, when I first arrived at the airport I joked with the head tech
> about "Should I make a follow-up appointment right now, or shall we
> wait until the end?" At the time we all laughed heartily, but -- in my
> limited experience with three different avionics shops -- there has
> never yet been an installation that didn't either (a) need to be
> tweaked, or (b) caused something else in the panel to become
> non-functional.


To maintain balance in the world, my radio installs have all gone
well. Over the years I've had my local avionics shop:

Install an intercom

Install a kx-125, a KN-64 DME

install a kx-155, KI-209, Strikefinder, STEC-40, a new DG with
pickoff for the strikefinder and stec-40 (and new antennas and coax).

install a GEM-602 engine analyzer

install a digital OAT

Not once did I have to go back and get something tweaked.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Jay Honeck]

> Do you have any pictures posted of the Air Gizmo installation? I'm curious
> how it looks, especially with the angle mount. I see they now have a
> vertical angle tilt bracket as well, which might be interesting for a
> mounting low in the stack.

Not yet. We took some family members flying this afternoon, and
stupidly forgot the camera...

It's a wonderful installation, truly a great enhancement to the plane
without much hassle.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Not once did I have to go back and get something tweaked.

Oh, boy, Bob, have you gone and done it now! You have not just
tempted the avionics gods, you have BAITED them.

I'd hang some garlic over the hangar door, or sumpin'...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article . com>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> > Not once did I have to go back and get something tweaked.
>
> Oh, boy, Bob, have you gone and done it now! You have not just
> tempted the avionics gods, you have BAITED them.

nah, you've been the magnet for the bad juju

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Bob Noel]

In article om>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> > Do you have any pictures posted of the Air Gizmo installation? I'm curious
> > how it looks, especially with the angle mount. I see they now have a
> > vertical angle tilt bracket as well, which might be interesting for a
> > mounting low in the stack.
>
> Not yet. We took some family members flying this afternoon, and
> stupidly forgot the camera...

hmmm.

"After trashing two Canon Elph cameras (by keeping them in my pocket all
the time, and fouling the auto-focus lens with pocket lint), I
purchased a little velcro belt pouch for it. I wear it like a cell
phone, and the camera is with me at all times.

My kids think I look like a geek (and I do), but I've always got the
camera along, and never "miss the moment"... "

gotcha. :-)

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Bill Watson]

I have a 340 and a 396. It all works very well except that I do wish I
could switch the music to 'everyone else' when I go into pilot isolation
mode. It would be nice to keep the music going for my often sleeping
passenger when I need isolation for an IFR procedure or something. Or
when I have yammering passengers and I just need to slip away while they
yap-on with music in the background.

A nit but a nice to have for sure.

BTW, the 396/496 mounts very nicely in the Maule with one of those
gimbaled mounts. The cable lengths work great with the cigar lighter
and all. The XM attenna magnet is perfect for overhead attach
underneath the headliner. Took awhile to figure it out but love it now.

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> When I had my panel installed, I decided I didn't really need the
>> flexibility for two separate music sources for the front and back seats, so
>> just had the two inputs wired together, and connected to an input jack on
>> the panel. I can just plug in the iPod or CD player and it's available to
>> all 4 positions with no external switching required.
>
> That's one solution we talked about, but I would hate to lose that
> flexibility.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Bob Noel > wrote:

> > > Not once did I have to go back and get something tweaked.
> >
> > Oh, boy, Bob, have you gone and done it now! You have not just
> > tempted the avionics gods, you have BAITED them.
>
> nah, you've been the magnet for the bad juju

aw heck, I done got bit by the avionics gods, sort of. The avionics
shop that I've been using since 1994 (the one that I never had
compliants with) was sold sometime around September, and was
suddenly closed 4 December.

Now KBED (Bedford, MA) is without any avionics shop on the
field. (Gee, is it possible that Massport skimming off a percentage
of the gross receipts had anything to do with it?)

Anyway, Jay, you were right. I tempted the gods.

(>-{

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Jay Honeck]

> Anyway, Jay, you were right. I tempted the gods.

Ah, well -- it never ends.

We're flying back from Janesville, after a nice lunch with Jim Burns,
grooving to the XM tunes, when I go to dial in the Iowa City AWOS on
COM 2 -- and the little digits dial does nothing. It just spins,
moving the numbers to the right of the decimal point, but without
changing frequencies.

Some little gear inside, no doubt, has stripped, or broken, or fell
out. And I just sold my other Narco Com 120, after upgrading to an
810+R digital com...

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Roger[_4_]]

On 11 Dec 2006 20:53:10 -0800, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:

>> Anyway, Jay, you were right. I tempted the gods.
>
>Ah, well -- it never ends.
>
>We're flying back from Janesville, after a nice lunch with Jim Burns,
>grooving to the XM tunes, when I go to dial in the Iowa City AWOS on
>COM 2 -- and the little digits dial does nothing. It just spins,
>moving the numbers to the right of the decimal point, but without
>changing frequencies.
>
>Some little gear inside, no doubt, has stripped, or broken, or fell
>out.

Jay, you know better than to even hope for that. They quit using
mechanical switches. It probably is a small and very expensive
electronic replacement for a switch.

> And I just sold my other Narco Com 120, after upgrading to an
>810+R digital com...
>
>:-(
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, you know better than to even hope for that. They quit using
> mechanical switches. It probably is a small and very expensive
> electronic replacement for a switch.

Actually, a friend of mine had the identical thing happen to his radio.
So this guy took his radio apart yesterday, figuring "What do I have
to lose?" -- and found a cracked 25-cent plastic gear. It was cracked
cleanly down to the shaft, in a nice, straight line.

Whenever that part of the gear mated with the tuning shaft's gear, the
shaft would slip, as the broken gear "flexed" away from the other gear.
This rendered the small frequencies (the ".075" part) unchangeable.

Of course, for an avionics shop to get at that gear would require
dismantling dozens of other little gears, gizmos, and what-nots, to the
tune of several hundred dollars in labor. Since the radio itself (an
old, out-of-production, Com-only Narco 120) was worth MAYBE $200, my
friend sat down with an A&P friend, and postulated a fix.

First, he discovered that he could tune the radio by pressing the
broken gear up against the shaft gear with a screw driver while turning
the knob. With trial and error he re-aligned the frequency in the
window to be accurate, by tuning it to his local AWOS frequency.

Then, he set the radio on end, so that the broken gear was horizontal.
By carefully placing a piece of scotch tape on the bottom of the broken
gear, he created a "plate" for glue to build up against. He then VERY
carefully packed JB Weld into the tiny break in the gear, filling the
space down to the scotch tape, and being careful not to "fill in" any
gear teeth.

JB Weld completely dries in 15 minutes, so after 12 minutes it has set
up firmly, whereupon he carefully removed the scotch tape. He then
carefully "packed" the stuff down so that any excess wouldn't interfere
with the gear teeth.

He reassembled the radio, slid it back into the panel -- and left it to
dry. JB Weld reaches maximum strength in 24 hours, so by now it should
be as good as new.

This might buy the guy a few weeks, or it may last forever. Since his
radio is used as Com 2, primarily to listen to AWOS and/or ground
control, he doesn't use it much -- and now he'll be tuning those small
numbers VERY carefully, indeed.

My friend is a very smart guy.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"