JPI install details (long)

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Long long story for the archives cut short: 60 hours logged and signed off
in my AMT log but my JPI EDM 760 Twin plus Oil temp is installed.
Everything works as advertised. For those who may contemplate this install,
read the Install manual AND the website FAQs several times. JPI's
documentation is far from complete and concise and you'll pick up required
tips and procedures from several of their documents. Don't even get me
started on their operators manual vs. recent firmware revisions!

Here are the put yourself to sleep details:

A couple months ago I had one of those airplane upgrade dreams that all
owners eventually have. New this, new that, wouldn't this be cool, if I
only had this... you know the dream where the sheep that you're counting all
have $$$ painted on their sides, your bank account is unlimited, and all
your wife ever says is "Sure honey, that would be nice."

Anyway, my dream started off with a JPI EDM 760 Twin engine analyzer that
featured indicators for both engines in one 3 1/8" display. Those 14 orange
bars (I dreamt that I had the optional Oil Temp probes) flashed and
flickered as the $heep merrily hopped along through their pasture of lush
green grass (obviously another money metaphor). It continued on with a
Shadin dual fuel flow indicator that is STC'd to eliminated our old
inaccurate Piper fuel flow pressure gauge and interfaced with our King KLN94
GPS. Ahhhh life is good and all these new blinking lights and numbers make
me feel like a real pilot..... zzzzzz.... :)

As with most things in my flying life, I began to justify this project first
in one way and then another. "I'd like to get it installed before we
overhaul our left engine..... I should do it now while it's still warm out
and I won't have to heat the hanger to do it this winter.... I can do it
one piece at a time and it won't cost so much.... I can do it myself under
the supervision of my A&P and save install $... With over 75% of the value
of our airplane tied up in engines, I really ought to know what they are
doing." I'm sure that most of you have used these same arguments, if not
with your wives, with yourself, so I'm betting you know what I'm talking
about.

The next day I started shopping for price quotes and the die was cast, the
Aztec was getting an engine monitor.

I begin thinking that I could buy a used indicator on ebay, have the
firmware updated, and buy new probes and a wiring harness. The STC is
available from JPI and this idea "almost" pencils out, however JPI decided
to continue their Oshkosh special and offered a $300 rebate plus 2 free
option probes. This threw my favor towards a completely new system,
including the warranty which I wouldn't have gotten by going piece-meal.

After several phone calls and endless emails, Gulf Coast Avionics had the
best deal and the most informative salesman, so he got my business. I
decided to add 5 feet to the normal 20 foot wiring harnesses just to be sure
I'd have enough wire, and as it turns out, I'm thankful that I did, this
left me plenty of excess to create service loops and I ended up using 3 of
the 5 extra feet reaching my #1 and #2 cylinders.

While I waited for the unit to be shipped, I spent plenty of time perusing
part 43 and JPI's manual for the proper methods and techniques of running
and securing the wiring harnesses. I eventually ended up ordering a small
fortune worth of heat resistant wedge type adel clamps, bolts, and steel
stop nuts. Inquiries to this and other internet groups several A&P's that
I've come to trust and respect suggested that using adel clamps and doing it
right would be worth the extra effort and expense down the road, ie: plastic
zip ties would eventually get brittle and break. But what route to take
from the firewalls to the cylinders?

Commercial break, flash back, rewind, grab another beer.... Does this ever
happen to you? Just when you've spent some serious money on a project that
might not be necessary, but is definitely an improvement, something comes
along that you just CAN'T pass up. Only days after I shelled out for the
complete JPI EDM 760, the eBay gods send me a "watched list" notification
for a complete leather interior, only 2 years old including the complete
seats for a 1966 Aztec.... and it's maroon. It would match perfectly!
Uggg!!! I've got to bid on it! I price it using Airtex's catalog and
figure out that it would cost over $10k, new. We bid $3k, win the auction,
at the reserve price, fly to Ft Lauderdale (17hrs on the hobbs in under 26
clock hours) and bring home the interior. JPI project gets put on hold,
interior gets installed leaving the forward pilot and co pilot side panels
open to run the JPI wiring harnesses through the wings and into the cabin.

Back to your regularly scheduled program:

Our IO540's have their alternator cable routed one side and the starter
cable routed on the other, both are tucked inside and above the intake
tubes. However, the JPI instructions clearly state NOT to tie the probe
leads or the wiring harness to these cables for fear of getting improper
readings. This lead to a suggestion by my local A&P, secure the alternator
and battery cables to the sump bolts using adel clamps and then using double
adel clamps secure the JPI wire bundle to the battery and alternator cable.
Easier said than done. My thumb and finger tips can attest to just how
difficult it is to get your hands between the intake and exhaust tubes then
secure an uncooperative adel clamp to a sump bolt! This was definitely NOT
part of my dream, however, once completed, it made for a very neat, secure,
and unobstructed install.

The CHT probes and the EGT probes installed without a hitch. By the time I
was finished, my fingers had become quite nimble installing the 52 tiny
screws, 52 lock washers, 52 nuts, several feet of shrink tube, anti-chafe
cover, triple tie wraps and triple tying with waxed lacing.

(insert thread about removing the oil galley plugs here, heat and patience
is the key)

After several checkups and inspections by my A&P, I was ready to install the
indicator and connect the wiring harnesses. I wanted to install the JPI in
the upper left hole on the copilot's side. This required pulling a 2nd
altimeter, moving it into the lower right hand side because the panel had a
hole located perfectly for the adjustment knob. But, this is where my
factory fuel flow lived so that would have to move upward to the upper right
hole, which I made available by removing my right tach and installing a dual
tach.

The system requires a ground wire run to one of the engines, which JPI does
not supply wire for, but the electrical connections are fairly simple. The
ground wire and the power wire are pigtailed out of the power/option
connection, so you just splice in a 2 amp circuit breaker or inline fuse to
the power wire and splice into the ground wire that you ran to the engine.
The oil temp, outside air temp, and TIT probes also get connected in this
same connector. (If you choose the CHT bayonet adapter probe to work in
conjunction with your factory CHT's you also have to ground those individual
probes to the engines)

With everything moved, installed, secured, and approved it was time to crank
'er up and see if all the blinking lights actually blinked. Ahhhh!!!
Perrrrfect! I'm a happy camper and overdue for a nap....hmm... what's that?
A $heep with $hadin dyed in it's wool??!! Lord have Mercy.

Jim

[Jay Honeck]

> With everything moved, installed, secured, and approved it was time to crank
> 'er up and see if all the blinking lights actually blinked. Ahhhh!!!
> Perrrrfect! I'm a happy camper and overdue for a nap....hmm... what's that?
> A $heep with $hadin dyed in it's wool??!! Lord have Mercy.

Ha. It never ends, does it?

Our JPI EDM-700 is the most important instrument in the panel. Before
we start the take-off roll, the copilot calls out "Six good bars" once
we're at full throttle -- meaning that all six cylinders are firing
evenly. Without that call, we abort the take-off, period.

When we lost cylinder #2 on departure from Titusville, FL, back in '04,
it was instantly obvious what was going on, simply by glancing at the
engine monitor. You will never, ever guess again "which cylinder is
misfiring" when the engine runs rough.

I'm glad my mechanic installed it, although he did use the tie-wrap
method. So far, after just four years we've had to replace a few that
have gotten brittle and broken, so your installation method is
superior.

You'll love that gauge as much as we do, I'm sure. And it might just
save your life, or your engine, or both, someday.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Kyle Boatright]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Long long story for the archives cut short: 60 hours logged and signed
> off
> in my AMT log but my JPI EDM 760 Twin plus Oil temp is installed.
> Everything works as advertised. For those who may contemplate this
> install,
> read the Install manual AND the website FAQs several times. JPI's
> documentation is far from complete and concise and you'll pick up required
> tips and procedures from several of their documents. Don't even get me
> started on their operators manual vs. recent firmware revisions!
>
<<<snip>>>

> Jim

Nice write-up. Reminds me of every system I installed in my homebuilt. Lots
of research, a steep learning curve, and finally, the satisfaction of doing
something yourself and doing it right.

Everything in aviation is a learning experience.

KB

[Jack Allison[_1_]]

Ah, so now I see the JPI->fuel flow->interior->oil galley plug
connection. And here I thought you were just futzing around with parts
of the plane in some random fashion. :-)

60 hrs logged...very nice. Man...I'm tired from reading though.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

It's all part of a huge Master(card bill) plan.
Jim

"Jack Allison" > wrote in message
. ..
> Ah, so now I see the JPI->fuel flow->interior->oil galley plug
> connection. And here I thought you were just futzing around with parts
> of the plane in some random fashion. :-)
>
> 60 hrs logged...very nice. Man...I'm tired from reading though.
>
>
> --
> Jack Allison
> PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
>
> "To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
> a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
> - Rod Machado
>
> (Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Was that the exhaust leak event?
I'm sure we'll find it more and more valuable as time goes on. I've got one
cylinder on our right engine that I'd like to do a compression check on,
although it was 73/80 during our annual in August, the EGT drops off during
very low power operation and the CHT trails the others. I've already
cleaned the injector so a probe swap and a compression check are next on my
list.

It's also nice to know that our 2000 hour left engine is running stable as a
rock.

Jim


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> > With everything moved, installed, secured, and approved it was time to
crank
> > 'er up and see if all the blinking lights actually blinked. Ahhhh!!!
> > Perrrrfect! I'm a happy camper and overdue for a nap....hmm... what's
that?
> > A $heep with $hadin dyed in it's wool??!! Lord have Mercy.
>
> Ha. It never ends, does it?
>
> Our JPI EDM-700 is the most important instrument in the panel. Before
> we start the take-off roll, the copilot calls out "Six good bars" once
> we're at full throttle -- meaning that all six cylinders are firing
> evenly. Without that call, we abort the take-off, period.
>
> When we lost cylinder #2 on departure from Titusville, FL, back in '04,
> it was instantly obvious what was going on, simply by glancing at the
> engine monitor. You will never, ever guess again "which cylinder is
> misfiring" when the engine runs rough.
>
> I'm glad my mechanic installed it, although he did use the tie-wrap
> method. So far, after just four years we've had to replace a few that
> have gotten brittle and broken, so your installation method is
> superior.
>
> You'll love that gauge as much as we do, I'm sure. And it might just
> save your life, or your engine, or both, someday.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Ronnie]

Now that you have experience, want to do another
install in my '64 Aztec? :-)

Ronnie

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Long long story for the archives cut short: 60 hours logged and signed
> off
> in my AMT log but my JPI EDM 760 Twin plus Oil temp is installed.
> Everything works as advertised. For those who may contemplate this
> install,
> read the Install manual AND the website FAQs several times. JPI's
> documentation is far from complete and concise and you'll pick up required
> tips and procedures from several of their documents. Don't even get me
> started on their operators manual vs. recent firmware revisions!
>
> Here are the put yourself to sleep details:
>
> A couple months ago I had one of those airplane upgrade dreams that all
> owners eventually have. New this, new that, wouldn't this be cool, if I
> only had this... you know the dream where the sheep that you're counting
> all
> have $$$ painted on their sides, your bank account is unlimited, and all
> your wife ever says is "Sure honey, that would be nice."
>
> Anyway, my dream started off with a JPI EDM 760 Twin engine analyzer that
> featured indicators for both engines in one 3 1/8" display. Those 14
> orange
> bars (I dreamt that I had the optional Oil Temp probes) flashed and
> flickered as the $heep merrily hopped along through their pasture of lush
> green grass (obviously another money metaphor). It continued on with a
> Shadin dual fuel flow indicator that is STC'd to eliminated our old
> inaccurate Piper fuel flow pressure gauge and interfaced with our King
> KLN94
> GPS. Ahhhh life is good and all these new blinking lights and numbers
> make
> me feel like a real pilot..... zzzzzz.... :)
>
> As with most things in my flying life, I began to justify this project
> first
> in one way and then another. "I'd like to get it installed before we
> overhaul our left engine..... I should do it now while it's still warm
> out
> and I won't have to heat the hanger to do it this winter.... I can do it
> one piece at a time and it won't cost so much.... I can do it myself under
> the supervision of my A&P and save install $... With over 75% of the
> value
> of our airplane tied up in engines, I really ought to know what they are
> doing." I'm sure that most of you have used these same arguments, if not
> with your wives, with yourself, so I'm betting you know what I'm talking
> about.
>
> The next day I started shopping for price quotes and the die was cast, the
> Aztec was getting an engine monitor.
>
> I begin thinking that I could buy a used indicator on ebay, have the
> firmware updated, and buy new probes and a wiring harness. The STC is
> available from JPI and this idea "almost" pencils out, however JPI decided
> to continue their Oshkosh special and offered a $300 rebate plus 2 free
> option probes. This threw my favor towards a completely new system,
> including the warranty which I wouldn't have gotten by going piece-meal.
>
> After several phone calls and endless emails, Gulf Coast Avionics had the
> best deal and the most informative salesman, so he got my business. I
> decided to add 5 feet to the normal 20 foot wiring harnesses just to be
> sure
> I'd have enough wire, and as it turns out, I'm thankful that I did, this
> left me plenty of excess to create service loops and I ended up using 3 of
> the 5 extra feet reaching my #1 and #2 cylinders.
>
> While I waited for the unit to be shipped, I spent plenty of time perusing
> part 43 and JPI's manual for the proper methods and techniques of running
> and securing the wiring harnesses. I eventually ended up ordering a small
> fortune worth of heat resistant wedge type adel clamps, bolts, and steel
> stop nuts. Inquiries to this and other internet groups several A&P's that
> I've come to trust and respect suggested that using adel clamps and doing
> it
> right would be worth the extra effort and expense down the road, ie:
> plastic
> zip ties would eventually get brittle and break. But what route to take
> from the firewalls to the cylinders?
>
> Commercial break, flash back, rewind, grab another beer.... Does this
> ever
> happen to you? Just when you've spent some serious money on a project
> that
> might not be necessary, but is definitely an improvement, something comes
> along that you just CAN'T pass up. Only days after I shelled out for the
> complete JPI EDM 760, the eBay gods send me a "watched list" notification
> for a complete leather interior, only 2 years old including the complete
> seats for a 1966 Aztec.... and it's maroon. It would match perfectly!
> Uggg!!! I've got to bid on it! I price it using Airtex's catalog and
> figure out that it would cost over $10k, new. We bid $3k, win the
> auction,
> at the reserve price, fly to Ft Lauderdale (17hrs on the hobbs in under 26
> clock hours) and bring home the interior. JPI project gets put on hold,
> interior gets installed leaving the forward pilot and co pilot side panels
> open to run the JPI wiring harnesses through the wings and into the cabin.
>
> Back to your regularly scheduled program:
>
> Our IO540's have their alternator cable routed one side and the starter
> cable routed on the other, both are tucked inside and above the intake
> tubes. However, the JPI instructions clearly state NOT to tie the probe
> leads or the wiring harness to these cables for fear of getting improper
> readings. This lead to a suggestion by my local A&P, secure the
> alternator
> and battery cables to the sump bolts using adel clamps and then using
> double
> adel clamps secure the JPI wire bundle to the battery and alternator
> cable.
> Easier said than done. My thumb and finger tips can attest to just how
> difficult it is to get your hands between the intake and exhaust tubes
> then
> secure an uncooperative adel clamp to a sump bolt! This was definitely
> NOT
> part of my dream, however, once completed, it made for a very neat,
> secure,
> and unobstructed install.
>
> The CHT probes and the EGT probes installed without a hitch. By the time
> I
> was finished, my fingers had become quite nimble installing the 52 tiny
> screws, 52 lock washers, 52 nuts, several feet of shrink tube, anti-chafe
> cover, triple tie wraps and triple tying with waxed lacing.
>
> (insert thread about removing the oil galley plugs here, heat and patience
> is the key)
>
> After several checkups and inspections by my A&P, I was ready to install
> the
> indicator and connect the wiring harnesses. I wanted to install the JPI
> in
> the upper left hole on the copilot's side. This required pulling a 2nd
> altimeter, moving it into the lower right hand side because the panel had
> a
> hole located perfectly for the adjustment knob. But, this is where my
> factory fuel flow lived so that would have to move upward to the upper
> right
> hole, which I made available by removing my right tach and installing a
> dual
> tach.
>
> The system requires a ground wire run to one of the engines, which JPI
> does
> not supply wire for, but the electrical connections are fairly simple.
> The
> ground wire and the power wire are pigtailed out of the power/option
> connection, so you just splice in a 2 amp circuit breaker or inline fuse
> to
> the power wire and splice into the ground wire that you ran to the engine.
> The oil temp, outside air temp, and TIT probes also get connected in this
> same connector. (If you choose the CHT bayonet adapter probe to work in
> conjunction with your factory CHT's you also have to ground those
> individual
> probes to the engines)
>
> With everything moved, installed, secured, and approved it was time to
> crank
> 'er up and see if all the blinking lights actually blinked. Ahhhh!!!
> Perrrrfect! I'm a happy camper and overdue for a nap....hmm... what's
> that?
> A $heep with $hadin dyed in it's wool??!! Lord have Mercy.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Hmm... a week long vacation in Texas. I think I'd have to hold off until
mid January when it's miserable up here. I've kicked around the idea of
taking the wife and kids to Schlitterbahn, but so far it's just an entry on
my "places to fly" list.
Jim

"Ronnie" > wrote in message
om...
> Now that you have experience, want to do another
> install in my '64 Aztec? :-)
>
> Ronnie

[Jay Honeck]

> Was that the exhaust leak event?

No, this was the lead B-Bs on the top AND bottom spark plug, thanks to
long idling (Presidential TFR) and burning that nasty, expensive avgas.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Hmm... a week long vacation in Texas. I think I'd have to hold off until
> mid January when it's miserable up here. I've kicked around the idea of
> taking the wife and kids to Schlitterbahn, but so far it's just an entry on
> my "places to fly" list.

Hey Jim -- have him meet you in Dalhart!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Oh you're FUNNY!
Actually, it would be a great shop to work in, but I don't think I'd get 2
minutes of sleep with all those freakin' trains running all night long.

"N6205Y, you're cleared to land on the taxiway, land and hold short
operations are in effect, hold short of running into the FBO."
Roger!

Jim

[Jon Woellhaf]

Jay Honeck wrote about the cause of losing a cylinder
> ... this was the lead B-Bs on the top AND bottom spark plug, thanks to
> long idling (Presidential TFR) and burning that nasty, expensive avgas.

and failure to lean agressively while idling?

[Ronnie]

Well, obviously there is an inside joke there.

I'm been to Dalhart and what I most remember about
the airport it the smell of the stockyards next door.
Better hold your nose if the wind is from that direction.

Jim, when you are ready to come down to Schlitterbahn,
let me know. I'm in Austin, so I'm only about 45 minutes
away.

One of these days I'm going to get my Aztec in a hangar
again and start trying to catch up with you on making it
as nice as your Aztec. Sure wish I was as motived as
you seem to be.

Ronnie


"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Oh you're FUNNY!
> Actually, it would be a great shop to work in, but I don't think I'd get 2
> minutes of sleep with all those freakin' trains running all night long.
>
> "N6205Y, you're cleared to land on the taxiway, land and hold short
> operations are in effect, hold short of running into the FBO."
> Roger!
>
> Jim
>
>

[Ronnie]

Jim,

I'd love to see some of your fuel flow and temperature
data logs from the JPI during cruise along with the MP
and RPM settings once you have some flight time on it.

Sounds like you removed the Piper fuel flow gauges, correct?
So I guess a comparison of the Shadin fuel flow to the Piper
gauges is not possible. I'm just wondering how accurate
or not the stock fuel flow gauges are.

Also, how does the JPI CHTs compare to the single Piper
CHT. Both of mine have always indicated right near the
top end of the green arc, but I don't know if the gauges are
inaccurate or if the CHTs are really that high.

I'm still flying blind in reguard to engine temps and fuel flows.
since I only have the facotry gauges. Maybe one of these days
I'll have the same dream that you did :-)

Ronnie



"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Long long story for the archives cut short: 60 hours logged and signed
> off
> in my AMT log but my JPI EDM 760 Twin plus Oil temp is installed.
> Everything works as advertised. For those who may contemplate this
> install,
> read the Install manual AND the website FAQs several times. JPI's
> documentation is far from complete and concise and you'll pick up required
> tips and procedures from several of their documents. Don't even get me
> started on their operators manual vs. recent firmware revisions!
>
>

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Ronnie,
>
> > I'd love to see some of your fuel flow and temperature
> > data logs from the JPI during cruise along with the MP
> > and RPM settings once you have some flight time on it.

Sure, download JPI's EZtrends software from
http://www.jpitech.com/Downloads/EzTrends_setup.exe
When we get a few flights on it I'll send you our files.

> >
> > Sounds like you removed the Piper fuel flow gauges, correct?
> > So I guess a comparison of the Shadin fuel flow to the Piper
> > gauges is not possible. I'm just wondering how accurate
> > or not the stock fuel flow gauges are.
>
We don't have the Shadin yet. It's my next project. As far as our Piper
FF, it's a joke, but it's consistent, so I assume we could have it
calibrated and it would be more usefull. Our normal cruise fuel burn at
10k
feet and full throttle is 22 gph, down lower it runs 25gph. We've
confirmed
this dozens of times over hundereds of hours. The Piper gauge shows
16.5gph
per side, 33gph, or higher.

> >
> > Also, how does the JPI CHTs compare to the single Piper
> > CHT. Both of mine have always indicated right near the
> > top end of the green arc, but I don't know if the gauges are
> > inaccurate or if the CHTs are really that high.
>
From what I can tell, our CHT gauges are pretty accurate. Both of our old
AC CHT probes have been replaced with the Rockwell probes plus the in-line
resistor mod that the Bonanza flyers created. We're able to keep that
overly wide Piper needle on the low side of the 400 degree dot.

> >
> > I'm still flying blind in reguard to engine temps and fuel flows.
> > since I only have the facotry gauges. Maybe one of these days
> > I'll have the same dream that you did :-)
> >
> > Ronnie

[Jay Honeck]

> > ... this was the lead B-Bs on the top AND bottom spark plug, thanks to
> > long idling (Presidential TFR) and burning that nasty, expensive avgas.
>
> and failure to lean agressively while idling?

Yep. Three things happened that day that rarely have happened.

1. A long, long idle, while waiting to depart a towered airport under
a presidential TFR.
2. Four tanks full of avgas.
3. Several days of rain before departure.

I don't know what it is, but my engine doesn't seem to run as smoothly
after sitting outside in driving rain for days on end. Dunno if the
spark plug wires are getting soaked, or what?

Anyway, I obviously didn't lean enough during the long idle. Thank
goodness I normally don't have to run with crap gas that requires such
archaic engine management procedures.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Well, obviously there is an inside joke there.

Yep. The roughest flight of our lives ended in Dalhart, Texas. It
was a wild ride, and -- although we were all thankful for the kindness
and generosity of the outstanding FBO there -- I don't think any of us
wish to return anytime soon.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ron Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>
> Anyway, I obviously didn't lean enough during the long idle. Thank
> goodness I normally don't have to run with crap gas that requires such
> archaic engine management procedures.
>
Contrary to what many people "think" they are doing, on most carbs,
you're not doing anything with respect to leaning at idle until you
get it to near the point of stopping the engine.

[Roy Smith]

In article >,
Ron Natalie > wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> >
> > Anyway, I obviously didn't lean enough during the long idle. Thank
> > goodness I normally don't have to run with crap gas that requires such
> > archaic engine management procedures.
> >
> Contrary to what many people "think" they are doing, on most carbs,
> you're not doing anything with respect to leaning at idle until you
> get it to near the point of stopping the engine.

One of my club's Arrows has always been prone to fouling plugs, so for many
years I used to lean it hard on the ground. I was confident that this was
a good thing, and confidently taught the procedure to many of my students.

Then, we got an electronic fuel flow gauge in the plane. I was shocked to
discover that when I pulled the mixture back to where I always pulled it on
the ground, the fuel flow meter didn't register any change at all.

I guess that's why they taught us in engineering school that any
measurement is better than the best guess.

[Jon Woellhaf]

Yes. The idea is to lean at idle until you get near the point of stopping
the engine. Try to takeoff that way and the engine will stall. Don't ask me
how I know. <g>

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>
>> Anyway, I obviously didn't lean enough during the long idle. Thank
>> goodness I normally don't have to run with crap gas that requires such
>> archaic engine management procedures.
>>
> Contrary to what many people "think" they are doing, on most carbs,
> you're not doing anything with respect to leaning at idle until you
> get it to near the point of stopping the engine.

[Ron Natalie]

Jon Woellhaf wrote:
> Yes. The idea is to lean at idle until you get near the point of stopping
> the engine. Try to takeoff that way and the engine will stall. Don't ask me
> how I know. <g>
>
Most likely the same way I know the Navion breaks ground in an
incredibly short distance if you take off with the full (37 degrees)
of flaps. It won't climb worth crap though, I don't recommend it
for short fields.

[john smith]

In article . com>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> I don't know what it is, but my engine doesn't seem to run as smoothly
> after sitting outside in driving rain for days on end. Dunno if the
> spark plug wires are getting soaked, or what?

After a good rain and high humidity, get the airplane out of the hangar
with the cowling off. Find a dark place on the airport and start the
engine. If the plug wires are bad, you will see them "glow" as power is
applied.

[john smith]

In article >,
"Jim Burns" > wrote:

> We don't have the Shadin yet. It's my next project. As far as our Piper
> FF, it's a joke, but it's consistent, so I assume we could have it
> calibrated and it would be more usefull. Our normal cruise fuel burn at
> 10k feet and full throttle is 22 gph, down lower it runs 25gph. We've
> confirmed this dozens of times over hundereds of hours. The Piper gauge
> shows 16.5gph per side, 33gph, or higher.

I can tell you that the originally installed Piper ff gauge reads 2 gph
higher than the FS-450. The fuel totalizer is calibrated and is always
within 0.1 gallons when the tanks are refilled.