Chicago area from the southwest - advice?

[Chad Speer]

We're visiting friends who live in downtown Chicago next weekend and
I'm considering a few airports for our visit. Aside from lamenting
about the murder of Meigs (which would have been perfect, of course) or
suggesting a boycott, can anyone offer suggestions as to the best field
and FBO for the visit? We're flying an Archer, so fees and service to
the little guy are of interest.

I've found some older threads on the subject suggesting Midway (sounds
fun), but the comments on each FBO are hit and miss, leaving me without
a clear choice. This is my first trip to Chicago, so I'm open to
suggestions. We have a ride, so I'd like to stay close to downtown for
their benefit, but ground transportation accessibility is no factor.

Also, any comments on the advantages of IFR and VFR in the area are
appreciated. I usually file IFR, but I have no desire to get the
guided tour. :-)

Nice to see so many of the old hands still on here. I've lurked for
many years but haven't posted in a very long time.


Chad Speer
PP-ASEL, IA
ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

[Andrew Sarangan[_1_]]

I have flown to Midway a few times in our club Archers. I found it to
be surprisingly easy. The controllers were very accomodating. We even
requested a downtown tour along the lakeshore. IFR is much easier than
VFR. If you are coming from the southwest, you will probably be cleared
to the MOTIF intersection and then radar vectored after that. From the
southeast I always got cleared to the Chicago Heights VOR. If you look
at the STARs that might give you some clues on where you might be
routed. But all my flights there were nearly a straightline to the
airport without much detours. I would recommend parking at Atlantic
Aviation. I had nothing but great service, including free rides to the
train stations and hotels.



Chad Speer wrote:
> We're visiting friends who live in downtown Chicago next weekend and
> I'm considering a few airports for our visit. Aside from lamenting
> about the murder of Meigs (which would have been perfect, of course) or
> suggesting a boycott, can anyone offer suggestions as to the best field
> and FBO for the visit? We're flying an Archer, so fees and service to
> the little guy are of interest.
>
> I've found some older threads on the subject suggesting Midway (sounds
> fun), but the comments on each FBO are hit and miss, leaving me without
> a clear choice. This is my first trip to Chicago, so I'm open to
> suggestions. We have a ride, so I'd like to stay close to downtown for
> their benefit, but ground transportation accessibility is no factor.
>
> Also, any comments on the advantages of IFR and VFR in the area are
> appreciated. I usually file IFR, but I have no desire to get the
> guided tour. :-)
>
> Nice to see so many of the old hands still on here. I've lurked for
> many years but haven't posted in a very long time.
>
>
> Chad Speer
> PP-ASEL, IA
> ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

[[email protected]]

Suggestion...

Schaumburg, 06C, fly into Schaumburg Airport and either a rental car
with AVIS in Schaumburg (847) 330 2847 (tell them Patrick from Hawai'i
sent you) or you can jump on the Metra train which has a stop at the
Stadium adjacent to the airport, it can take you downtown for about 5
bucks one way, within the hour

Fly into Lewis University Airport (I don't remember the Identifier),
rent a car at the AVIS station thats inside the GA terminal.

The upsides are free parking (last time I was at either a year ago),
and one of the most top-notch FBOs in the US, from my experience. Also,
it's a lot nicer to fly out of a basic small airport than it is to deal
with an arrival at Midway, especially on your first trip when you're
unfarmiliar with the airspace.

[Chad Speer]

wrote:

*****
Suggestion...

Schaumburg, 06C, fly into Schaumburg Airport and either a rental car
with AVIS in Schaumburg (847) 330 2847 (tell them Patrick from Hawai'i
sent you) or you can jump on the Metra train which has a stop at the
Stadium adjacent to the airport, it can take you downtown for about 5
bucks one way, within the hour

Fly into Lewis University Airport (I don't remember the Identifier),
rent a car at the AVIS station thats inside the GA terminal.

The upsides are free parking (last time I was at either a year ago),
and one of the most top-notch FBOs in the US, from my experience. Also,
it's a lot nicer to fly out of a basic small airport than it is to deal
with an arrival at Midway, especially on your first trip when you're
unfarmiliar with the airspace.
*****


Thanks for the reply (and you too, Andrew). I had initially selected
Lewis University Airport (KLOT) as my destination until I realized that
Google Maps was showing "Lincoln Park, IL" much further to the
southwest than it is. Once I entered an address, it was correctly
displayed. Strange and a little confusing. :-) I had hoped to avoid
a long drive for our hosts to pick us up, not knowing how bad traffic
would be.

Maybe an additional question should have been "How much hassle is
Chicago traffic on the weekend for a visitor?" I'd love to rent a car
if I can actually get around to some of the interesting places without
much hassle.

I just looked more closely at KLOT on a road map. Maybe I should land
here since I can jump out of my Archer and take Archer Ave from the
airport to downtown. ;-)

Now, I'm definitely hoping to take a lake shore tour in the plane. It
sounds ironically easy now that Meigs is closed. So much for security.
Any helpful tips or local procedures for the tour?


Chad Speer
PP-ASEL, IA
ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

[Jay Beckman]

> *****
>
>
> Thanks for the reply (and you too, Andrew). I had initially selected
> Lewis University Airport (KLOT) as my destination until I realized that
> Google Maps was showing "Lincoln Park, IL" much further to the
> southwest than it is. Once I entered an address, it was correctly
> displayed. Strange and a little confusing. :-) I had hoped to avoid
> a long drive for our hosts to pick us up, not knowing how bad traffic
> would be.
>
> Maybe an additional question should have been "How much hassle is
> Chicago traffic on the weekend for a visitor?" I'd love to rent a car
> if I can actually get around to some of the interesting places without
> much hassle.
>

I've not flown into the Chicagoland area .. but I've driven there a lot.
Chicago freeway traffic can be some of the worst you'll ever see in the USA.

Picture your typical rush hour crush in most major cities (excepting LA or
NY) and this is what is normal for about 20 hours a day around the Chigago
area. Now add another 40% more cars and then you have actual rush hour in
Chicago. No lie, I've had it take over two hours to go from the Loop out to
O'Hare...at 430 in the morning!!! Using the major surface streets can
actually work better if you are going from point a to point b and don't mind
altering your route at will.

The suggestion offered regarding using the train to downtown is a good one,
IMO but whatever means you use to get downtown, Chicago is actually a pretty
good walking city. Michigan Ave, along the lake (the Gold Coast), Rush
Street area, all are fun to just meander around on foot.

Good luck with your trip...

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[tscottme]

weekend traffic in Chicago is seldom worth avoiding except when there is
some special event like a pro sports game, snowstorm, etc. The extensive
roads aren't big enough for daily rush hour traffic, they have ample
capacity otherwise.

--

Scott

[[email protected]]

Weekends never were too bad from what I remember, Archer Ave. into
downtown would be a bad move though... for travel time you always take
a freeway there... if you want to be close to the rental place go to
Lewis, if you don't mind a 5 minute drive after getting picked up at
the airport go to Schaumburg, AVIS will come pick you up (their number
is (847) 330 2847, and the manager is named Barb, she's a good friend
of mine and when she came here to Hawai'i on her Honeymoon I flew and
her new husband around the islands, if you tell her I sent you she
should take good care of you), also the drive into downtown Chicago
from Schaumburg is very quick (20 minutes), from Romeoville (Lewis U)
it's over an hour, not only that but 06C has 100000% better planning
facilities.

It really depends on how quickly you want ot be behind the wheel of a
car, but all around Schaumburg is a better place, plus when you want to
hit the lakefront getting into the I-290 corridor (Class B corridor
between O'hare and Midway), and the only way to "break through" to the
lakefront, is a 8 nautical mile flight, from Lewis it's about 20 since
you have to make a big circle.

[Jay Honeck]

> Picture your typical rush hour crush in most major cities (excepting LA or
> NY) and this is what is normal for about 20 hours a day around the Chigago
> area. Now add another 40% more cars and then you have actual rush hour in
> Chicago. No lie, I've had it take over two hours to go from the Loop out to
> O'Hare...at 430 in the morning!!! Using the major surface streets can
> actually work better if you are going from point a to point b and don't mind
> altering your route at will.

Jay, you forgot to add the following:

"Now picture stopping all 16 lanes of traffic every few miles to
collect a few coins from each car, causing epic traffic back-ups,
rather than simply increasing the local gas tax a penny."

And also:

"Now imagine that the occupants of this same city seem to enjoy arguing
about, and are simply baffled by, the "causes" of their traffic woes."

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
(Former Chicago Tribune Employee)
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ron Natalie]

Chad Speer wrote:
> We're visiting friends who live in downtown Chicago next weekend and
> I'm considering a few airports for our visit. Aside from lamenting
> about the murder of Meigs (which would have been perfect, of course) or
> suggesting a boycott, can anyone offer suggestions as to the best field
> and FBO for the visit? We're flying an Archer, so fees and service to
> the little guy are of interest.
>
Actually, as smelly as it sounds, Gary, IN has always been good
to us. Coming from the East it's the last thing before you
hit the big city. We've stopped their for fuel a few times
and have taken their courtesy car over to lunch (they have a
whole list of restaurants they give you with directions).
It's relatively easy to get into Chicago proper from there.

[Judah]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in
:

> I've not flown into the Chicagoland area .. but I've driven there a lot.
> Chicago freeway traffic can be some of the worst you'll ever see in the
> USA.
>
> Picture your typical rush hour crush in most major cities (excepting LA
> or NY) and this is what is normal for about 20 hours a day around the
> Chigago area. Now add another 40% more cars and then you have actual
> rush hour in Chicago. No lie, I've had it take over two hours to go
> from the Loop out to O'Hare...at 430 in the morning!!! Using the major
> surface streets can actually work better if you are going from point a
> to point b and don't mind altering your route at will.
>
> The suggestion offered regarding using the train to downtown is a good
> one, IMO but whatever means you use to get downtown, Chicago is actually
> a pretty good walking city. Michigan Ave, along the lake (the Gold
> Coast), Rush Street area, all are fun to just meander around on foot.
>
> Good luck with your trip...
>
> Jay Beckman
> PP-ASEL
> Chandler, AZ

I can tell you unequivocably that Chicago traffic is worse than NY traffic.
NY traffic is pretty tame - North-South traffic is really not all that bad,
it's just getting across town that sucks.

Chicago traffic sucks in every direction. I'd compare it to Washington DC
traffic, where yesterday it took us an hour to go 1.8 miles.

Public transportation is the way to go...

[[email protected]]

Courtesy car... yes.

But I don't think there is a single rental car place there... and with
good reason, it's undeniably one of the most depressing slums in
America.

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Chad Speer wrote:
> > We're visiting friends who live in downtown Chicago next weekend and
> > I'm considering a few airports for our visit. Aside from lamenting
> > about the murder of Meigs (which would have been perfect, of course) or
> > suggesting a boycott, can anyone offer suggestions as to the best field
> > and FBO for the visit? We're flying an Archer, so fees and service to
> > the little guy are of interest.
> >
> Actually, as smelly as it sounds, Gary, IN has always been good
> to us. Coming from the East it's the last thing before you
> hit the big city. We've stopped their for fuel a few times
> and have taken their courtesy car over to lunch (they have a
> whole list of restaurants they give you with directions).
> It's relatively easy to get into Chicago proper from there.

[Travis Marlatte]

- Schaumburg would be my first choice for cheapest. Use mass transit. Make
sure the train schedules match your needs.

- Midway is the closest. I would choose Midway, if someone is going to pick
you up or you want to maximize your productive time on the ground. Good mass
transit access. Even with the fees, you will come out ahead by saving on car
rental.

- Gary is also a good choice for location but a little depressing. Rent a
car. You will get to experience all the glories of the Chicago area:
pollution, congestion, tolls, road construction, confusing highway
exchanges.

All of these airports are a 45 to 90 minute commute to Chicago.

IFR to Midway. VFR to Gary or Schaumburg. Coming in VFR from the SE, pass by
Gary but give them a call. They protect a very small airspace and will
probably suggest a Midway approach freq for advisories. Fly up the lakeshore
until the scenery gets boring. Then, turn around. 2500 feet, 1/2 mile or so
off shore.


-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
...
> Chad Speer wrote:
>> We're visiting friends who live in downtown Chicago next weekend and
>> I'm considering a few airports for our visit. Aside from lamenting
>> about the murder of Meigs (which would have been perfect, of course) or
>> suggesting a boycott, can anyone offer suggestions as to the best field
>> and FBO for the visit? We're flying an Archer, so fees and service to
>> the little guy are of interest.
>>
> Actually, as smelly as it sounds, Gary, IN has always been good
> to us. Coming from the East it's the last thing before you
> hit the big city. We've stopped their for fuel a few times
> and have taken their courtesy car over to lunch (they have a
> whole list of restaurants they give you with directions).
> It's relatively easy to get into Chicago proper from there.

[Jim Burns[_1_]]

Not only that, but imagine that there is construction currently occurring to
remove many of the toll booths and install more high speed I-PASS lanes
which SOMEDAY will help solve the problem, but in the mean time makes it 10
times as bad.
Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> > Picture your typical rush hour crush in most major cities (excepting LA
or
> > NY) and this is what is normal for about 20 hours a day around the
Chigago
> > area. Now add another 40% more cars and then you have actual rush hour
in
> > Chicago. No lie, I've had it take over two hours to go from the Loop
out to
> > O'Hare...at 430 in the morning!!! Using the major surface streets can
> > actually work better if you are going from point a to point b and don't
mind
> > altering your route at will.
>
> Jay, you forgot to add the following:
>
> "Now picture stopping all 16 lanes of traffic every few miles to
> collect a few coins from each car, causing epic traffic back-ups,
> rather than simply increasing the local gas tax a penny."
>
> And also:
>
> "Now imagine that the occupants of this same city seem to enjoy arguing
> about, and are simply baffled by, the "causes" of their traffic woes."
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> (Former Chicago Tribune Employee)
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Nathan Young]

On 29 Nov 2006 16:17:29 -0800, "Chad Speer" >
wrote:

>We're visiting friends who live in downtown Chicago next weekend and

>Also, any comments on the advantages of IFR and VFR in the area are
>appreciated. I usually file IFR, but I have no desire to get the
>guided tour. :-)
>

Chicago has a ton of area airports, but if you are trying to fly
closest to downtown, there are really only 3 choices:
Palwaukee (PWK), OHare (ORD), and Midway (MDW).

ORD is, well ORD, one of the busiest airports in the world. I would
rule it out unless you are seeking out an adventure. I believe
arrival slots are required, and the landing fee is steep. I have
never flown there, so my comments are hearsay.

PWK is a nice airport, with nice FBOs, but it is still a long drive
from downtown, especially so in rush hour traffic (1hr).

Midway is the closest to downtown of the 3. It is probably also the
easiest to access when arriving from the SouthWest, so that is where I
would go.

I would call ahead to the FBOs (MillionAir?) to ask for latest fuel
price, landing fees, tiedown/overnight fees, and if any of these are
waived for purchasing fuel. Reading the airnav.com site, the charges
seem to be a point of contention. Either way, I would expect to
outlay for some combination of $5.00 fuel, $10.00 landing fee and $50
ramp fee.

MDW also is served by the Orange Line El Train so if your company gets
tied up, and you lose your ride, you could take the El train back to
MDW.

IFR. I have never flown IFR into MDW, but I do not think you will get
vectored too badly coming in from the SW. Do expect to get sent lower
(3000), probably as you near the Joliet VOR (JOT) or perhaps further
West. I would probably file to the JOTv, and then expect to get
vectors upon reaching JOT, or perhaps the CGTv.

VFR. If you are on flight-following, center will drop you around 30
miles West of the ORD Bravo. Chicago Approach for flight following
will be 119.35 in that area. There are a lot of MDW arrivals in that
area, so I always feel more comfortable with Approach calling out
traffic.

-Nathan

[[email protected]]

: Now, I'm definitely hoping to take a lake shore tour in the plane. It
: sounds ironically easy now that Meigs is closed. So much for security.
: Any helpful tips or local procedures for the tour?

I've flow along lakeshore transitioning between Gary and Milwaukee about a
dozen times or so. So long as you stay clear the Bravo, Chicago approach is
completely fine with you being there. I've used VFR flight following about half the
time and just squawked 1200 the other half. So long as you're prompt and professional
on the radio, they don't have any troubles with you.

Of course traffice is rather "compressed" in that small corridor, so looking
out for other VFR traffic is pretty important. The lake is at about 700' IIRC, and
the bottom of the Bravo is either 3000' or 1900', depending on where you are.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Ron Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>
> "Now picture stopping all 16 lanes of traffic every few miles to
> collect a few coins from each car, causing epic traffic back-ups,
> rather than simply increasing the local gas tax a penny."
>
There is a funny folk duo from Madison that on the beginning
of one of their albums has a history of Wisconsin (involving
things like the expedition of Merriweather Lewis and Kimberly
Clark). The talk about the expedition realizing that they
had proceded south of out Wisconsin when their indian guides
stopped periodically to throw forty cents into the bushes.

[bdl]

Chad Speer wrote:
> We're visiting friends who live in downtown Chicago next weekend and
> I'm considering a few airports for our visit. Aside from lamenting
> about the murder of Meigs (which would have been perfect, of course) or
> suggesting a boycott, can anyone offer suggestions as to the best field
> and FBO for the visit? We're flying an Archer, so fees and service to
> the little guy are of interest.

Flew into KPWK (Formerly Palwaukee, now Chicago Executive) for the
Thanksgiving holiday Seems any time I try to make this trip IFR (I'm
based in Missouri) I always get routed from PLANO OBK KPWK, so keep
that in mind when planning your routing. I'm usually able to get
direct PLANO from pretty far back (SPI usually) so it's not too much of
a guided tour. By PLANO I'm below 4000 MSL, usually get 3000 shortly
thereafter, then 2500 until the ILS into PWK. You'll always get the
ILS into PWK due to O'Hare being very close to the south. If they are
landing north, you won't get a circling approach to 34, cancel IFR if
you can and you'l be able to circle around to 34.

FBO's at PWK seemed to have changed hands a few times. North American
Jet, became Trajen, which became Atlantic. Signature is also on the
field.

I called Atlantic to find out what overnight parking on the ramp would
cost for my Archer, when they quoted me $50/night!!! For a 4 night/5
day stay that was going to cost me more than the fuel to get there!
Obviously Atlantic only wants the bizjet crowd.

Signature was a more reasonable $10/night. For comparison sake,
Shaumburg (06C) quoted me $7/night. Fuel at Signature was a
reasonable (?) $4.50/gal with a $0.50 discount for a weekend takeoff.
Ramp fee of $25 was waived with 7 gals purchased.

Signature was great, gave me full service in all respects, even helping
by entertaining my little one (2 years old) and the family cat which
made the journey with us.

I would have flown into 06C, but I was going to be arriving after dark,
and 06C shuts down at 7pm. There are no instrument arrivals to 06C.
I read somewhere that you could do a arrival into KDPA and then scoot
over to 06C.

In my case, PWK vs 06C is about equal from my in-laws, so ground trip
for them is minimal. MDW is probably a good choice if your going
downtown, since the train is right there.

As to departures.....

Anybody know the secret from departing the chicago area to the
south/southwest? Departing from PWK, I've either been vectored almost
to Iowa and then south, or around Midway to the south, and then brought
back on course. In addition I was told this last time when picking up
my clearance (with a filed 4000 for strong southwest windws at
altitude) that they want you to fly 8000 with the palwaukee two
departure. I've usually been able to negotiate lower, but my
"negotiations" only seem to last till I get handed off to another
sector. As far away as I was from ORD and MDW you'd think lower but
still above the MVA would be better for them, but ATC system design is
still black magic for me.

If this last departure had been closer to VFR conditions, I'd have
probably departed VFR, to pick up my clearance further down the
road.... Maybe next time.

Brian

[bdl]

bdl wrote:
> Signature was a more reasonable $10/night. For comparison sake,
> Shaumburg (06C) quoted me $7/night. Fuel at Signature was a
> reasonable (?) $4.50/gal with a $0.50 discount for a weekend takeoff.
> Ramp fee of $25 was waived with 7 gals purchased.
>

The 0.50/gal discount was taken off of the $4.50/gal so it net'd to
$4/gal in the end. Should have made that clearer

[Jay Beckman]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>
>> "Now picture stopping all 16 lanes of traffic every few miles to
>> collect a few coins from each car, causing epic traffic back-ups,
>> rather than simply increasing the local gas tax a penny."
>>
> There is a funny folk duo from Madison that on the beginning
> of one of their albums has a history of Wisconsin (involving
> things like the expedition of Merriweather Lewis and Kimberly
> Clark). The talk about the expedition realizing that they
> had proceded south of out Wisconsin when their indian guides
> stopped periodically to throw forty cents into the bushes.

As a Great Lakes area native, the above description just has me rolling with
laughter...

Jay B

[[email protected]]

: > There is a funny folk duo from Madison that on the beginning
: > of one of their albums has a history of Wisconsin (involving
: > things like the expedition of Merriweather Lewis and Kimberly
: > Clark). The talk about the expedition realizing that they
: > had proceded south of out Wisconsin when their indian guides
: > stopped periodically to throw forty cents into the bushes.

: As a Great Lakes area native, the above description just has me rolling with
: laughter...

Having gone to graduate school in Champaign, IL and driven to the folks' in Milwaukee, WI a number of
times on I-39, I roll a bit myself at the truth...

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[[email protected]]

: As to departures.....

: Anybody know the secret from departing the chicago area to the
: south/southwest? Departing from PWK, I've either been vectored almost
: to Iowa and then south, or around Midway to the south, and then brought
: back on course. In addition I was told this last time when picking up
: my clearance (with a filed 4000 for strong southwest windws at
: altitude) that they want you to fly 8000 with the palwaukee two
: departure. I've usually been able to negotiate lower, but my
: "negotiations" only seem to last till I get handed off to another
: sector. As far away as I was from ORD and MDW you'd think lower but
: still above the MVA would be better for them, but ATC system design is
: still black magic for me.

: If this last departure had been closer to VFR conditions, I'd have
: probably departed VFR, to pick up my clearance further down the
: road.... Maybe next time.

It seems pretty much SOP that in a spam-can flying IFR anywhere near the Chicago Bravo that you will almost
*always* be vectored almost to Iowa (Well, at least Beloit and Rockford, IL).

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Ron Natalie]

Jay Beckman wrote:

>
> As a Great Lakes area native, the above description just has me rolling with
> laughter...
>
> Jay B
>
>
It turns out they have that text on their website. I can't do it
justice:

http://members.aol.com/berrymanp/alyrics/01sesq.html

[Rick[_1_]]

wrote in message
om>...
>Weekends never were too bad from what I remember, Archer Ave. into
>downtown would be a bad move though... for travel time you always take
>a freeway there... if you want to be close to the rental place go to
>Lewis, if you don't mind a 5 minute drive after getting picked up at
>the airport go to Schaumburg, AVIS will come pick you up (their number
>is (847) 330 2847, and the manager is named Barb, she's a good friend
>of mine and when she came here to Hawai'i on her Honeymoon I flew and
>her new husband around the islands, if you tell her I sent you she
>should take good care of you), also the drive into downtown Chicago
>from Schaumburg is very quick (20 minutes),

Actually, a 20 minute drive from Schaumburg to the Loop is very, very, very
quick, dangerously so, and probably impossible...unless you're the Blues
Brothers. Mere mortals should plan on an hour, more or less, depending on
just where in Chicago you're going.

>from Romeoville (Lewis U)
>it's over an hour, not only that but 06C has 100000% better planning
>facilities.
>
>It really depends on how quickly you want ot be behind the wheel of a
>car, but all around Schaumburg is a better place, plus when you want to
>hit the lakefront getting into the I-290 corridor (Class B corridor
>between O'hare and Midway), and the only way to "break through" to the
>lakefront, is a 8 nautical mile flight, from Lewis it's about 20 since
>you have to make a big circle.

- Rick

[Chad Speer]

Rick wrote:
*****
Actually, a 20 minute drive from Schaumburg to the Loop is very, very,
very quick, dangerously so, and probably impossible...unless you're the
Blues Brothers. Mere mortals should plan on an hour, more or less,
depending on just where in Chicago you're going.
*****

I thought that didn't jibe with the map. Of course, I *do* have half a
pack of cigarettes. ;-)


Chad Speer
PP-ASEL, IA
ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

[[email protected]]

Rick wrote:
> Actually, a 20 minute drive from Schaumburg to the Loop is very, very, very
> quick, dangerously so, and probably impossible...unless you're the Blues
> Brothers. Mere mortals should plan on an hour, more or less, depending on
> just where in Chicago you're going.

The loop? I didn't say loop, I used to work on School Street in Chicago
and lived in Schaumburg, I was thinking Schaumburg to School street in
light traffic.

Although the idea of getting to the loop in 20 minutes sounds tempting,
maybe if someone put an airport on the lakefront that could cater to
charter and private flights to benefit the attractiveness of the city
for the business community would make that possible.

Ideas, ideas.

[Chad Speer]

Well, thanks everyone for all your great advice. I have a much better
picture of the area's airports and what to expect.

I think we'll fly into Midway since it's only a two night visit and we
don't want to waste time in transit or inconvenience our hosts. I'll
double check the fees this week, but it sounds like a fuel purchase
takes some of the sting out. No problem.

Now I'll just have to remember to be sharp on the radio so I don't get
put in the penalty box by approach. We don't have no stinkin' penalty
boxes at Kansas City Center, but I hear Chicago loves them. Maybe I
should let my wife do the talking. Nobody would dare mess with her.
;-)


Chad Speer
PP-ASEL, IA
ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

[bdl]

wrote:

> It seems pretty much SOP that in a spam-can flying IFR anywhere near the Chicago Bravo that you will almost
> *always* be vectored almost to Iowa (Well, at least Beloit and Rockford, IL).
>

Thats been my observation. I guess my question is WHY... Especially
when im so low and so far outside the Class Bravo that I can't possibly
be in the way of approaching traffic on a southbound leg.

ANybody ever get a tour of the Chicago TRACON?

Brian

[Travis Marlatte]

"bdl" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> wrote:
>
>> It seems pretty much SOP that in a spam-can flying IFR anywhere near the
>> Chicago Bravo that you will almost
>> *always* be vectored almost to Iowa (Well, at least Beloit and Rockford,
>> IL).
>>
>
> Thats been my observation. I guess my question is WHY... Especially
> when im so low and so far outside the Class Bravo that I can't possibly
> be in the way of approaching traffic on a southbound leg.
>
> ANybody ever get a tour of the Chicago TRACON?
>
> Brian
>

One of the problems is that DuPage sits just to the west. If the traffic at
O'Hare is just right, they will sometimes let you go over the top of DuPage.
Otherwise, they will take you not only west of the lower layers of the class
B but far enough west so that they can keep you well clear of DuPage.

The best that you can do VFR is squeeze between DuPage and the class B. It's
a nice tour. Even that feels way too far west, if you are headed southeast.

I just chalk it up to the experience of IFR flying. After all, the only real
reason to endure such "hardship" is if it is real IFR. Otherwise, cancel and
go visual. I just quietly motor wherever they want me to go - as long as I
end up at my destination.

-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

[bdl]

Travis Marlatte wrote:

> One of the problems is that DuPage sits just to the west. If the traffic at
> O'Hare is just right, they will sometimes let you go over the top of DuPage.
> Otherwise, they will take you not only west of the lower layers of the class
> B but far enough west so that they can keep you well clear of DuPage.

Thanks, and I haven't looked at the sectional real close but thats
likely the reason.

> I just chalk it up to the experience of IFR flying. After all, the only real
> reason to endure such "hardship" is if it is real IFR. Otherwise, cancel and
> go visual. I just quietly motor wherever they want me to go - as long as I
> end up at my destination.

Yeah I heard you. It was more of the "heck, why do they have me on a
270 vector STILL?" I wanna go south! I'm /G pick a point on the map,
I'll go there. It's nice and flat around here, I'm high enough to not
be an issue with any towers, but low enough that I shouldn't be in
anybody's approach path.

Even requested a more southerly vector from Chicago Center (I had been
on a 270 vector for that long) and it was at least another 15 minutes
before I could be turned south.

Not complaining, was just curious as to the "box" ATC was working in.

I think the next time, I'll be departing VFR (weather permitting) with
a filed IFR clearance originating further down the road. When doing
cross countries I like to be in the system. It lets my family track me
on flightaware.com, I know I'll get flight following, and as you said,
I can always cancel.

Thanks for the info.

Brian

[Everett M. Greene[_2_]]

"bdl" > writes:
> Yeah I heard you. It was more of the "heck, why do they have me on a
> 270 vector STILL?" I wanna go south! I'm /G pick a point on the map,
> I'll go there. It's nice and flat around here, I'm high enough to not
> be an issue with any towers, but low enough that I shouldn't be in
> anybody's approach path.

If you pass by some high rocks and start seeing an
endless stretch of water ahead of you, you have
probably been sent a bit too far west.

> Even requested a more southerly vector from Chicago Center (I had been
> on a 270 vector for that long) and it was at least another 15 minutes
> before I could be turned south.

On an airline flight departing LAX, we were vectored west
over the ocean. After quite some time, the pilot told
the passengers that ATC had promised we could turn
east some time before getting to Hawaii.

> Not complaining, was just curious as to the "box" ATC was working in.
>
> I think the next time, I'll be departing VFR (weather permitting) with
> a filed IFR clearance originating further down the road. When doing
> cross countries I like to be in the system. It lets my family track me
> on flightaware.com, I know I'll get flight following, and as you said,
> I can always cancel.

[bdl]

Everett M. Greene wrote:
> If you pass by some high rocks and start seeing an
> endless stretch of water ahead of you, you have
> probably been sent a bit too far west.

I figured by the time I saw the Alexis Park Inn, I'd land and stay the
night. That's at least way before the rocks. :-)

[Rick[_1_]]

wrote in message
. com>...
>Rick wrote:
>> Actually, a 20 minute drive from Schaumburg to the Loop is very, very,
very
>> quick, dangerously so, and probably impossible...unless you're the Blues
>> Brothers. Mere mortals should plan on an hour, more or less, depending on
>> just where in Chicago you're going.
>
>The loop? I didn't say loop,

Ok, you said downtown.

>I used to work on School Street in Chicago
>and lived in Schaumburg, I was thinking Schaumburg to School street in
>light traffic.
>
>Although the idea of getting to the loop in 20 minutes sounds tempting,
>maybe if someone put an airport on the lakefront that could cater to
>charter and private flights to benefit the attractiveness of the city
>for the business community would make that possible.
>
>Ideas, ideas.

Maybe you should write to Mayor Daley and make the suggestion.

- Rick

[Chad Speer]

Well, the weather was severe clear for the trip up, so we went into
Midway VFR. I called Midway Tower (frequency on the Chicago TAC says
Midway Approach) over BOJAK, which is published on the I-55 VISUAL
APPROACH RWY 13C. It was on my way and easy for them to find. They
assigned me a code and put me straight to the field entering Class C at
or below 2000.

I eventually got a right downwind to 22R, while the big kids played on
22L (actually ILS 31C circle to 22L). I kept it in close and landed
long (probably unnecessary, since I didn't hear anyone else assigned to
that runway while taxiing in). Two hours and ten minutes on the clock
with a groundspeed most of the way of 165 knots. Too much for an
Archer, should be a long trip back. ;-)

Atlantic Aviation exceeded my expectations. Check my remarks on
AirNav. Great experience.

Left early last night because the weather looked like it could hold
some icing potential today (now it looks okay). We filed IFR, departed
in the dark VFR on course, ran into a ragged layer at 4000, picked up
our IFR with Chicago Center and took it up to 10000 looking for some
relief from the headwind. No luck. Groundspeed was 100 knots no
matter where we cruised. We stayed up high and with time spent below
2000 with Midway and below 4000 waiting for a clearance (and making 85
knots across the ground), we made Kansas City in just under 4 hours,
including a GPS18 back home at LXT.

Thanks again for all of your advice. This was a fun trip for my wife
and me.


Chad Speer
PP-ASEL, IA
ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

[Chad Speer]

I forgot to post a link to a nice photo we took while taxiing in to
Atlantic Aviation.

http://www.stickywebz.com/flying/midway.jpg


Chad Speer
PP-ASEL, IA
ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

[Travis Marlatte]

Excellent, Chad. Glad it worked out.

Can you tally your expenses at Midway for us?

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

"Chad Speer" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well, the weather was severe clear for the trip up, so we went into
> Midway VFR. I called Midway Tower (frequency on the Chicago TAC says
> Midway Approach) over BOJAK, which is published on the I-55 VISUAL
> APPROACH RWY 13C. It was on my way and easy for them to find. They
> assigned me a code and put me straight to the field entering Class C at
> or below 2000.
>
> I eventually got a right downwind to 22R, while the big kids played on
> 22L (actually ILS 31C circle to 22L). I kept it in close and landed
> long (probably unnecessary, since I didn't hear anyone else assigned to
> that runway while taxiing in). Two hours and ten minutes on the clock
> with a groundspeed most of the way of 165 knots. Too much for an
> Archer, should be a long trip back. ;-)
>
> Atlantic Aviation exceeded my expectations. Check my remarks on
> AirNav. Great experience.
>
> Left early last night because the weather looked like it could hold
> some icing potential today (now it looks okay). We filed IFR, departed
> in the dark VFR on course, ran into a ragged layer at 4000, picked up
> our IFR with Chicago Center and took it up to 10000 looking for some
> relief from the headwind. No luck. Groundspeed was 100 knots no
> matter where we cruised. We stayed up high and with time spent below
> 2000 with Midway and below 4000 waiting for a clearance (and making 85
> knots across the ground), we made Kansas City in just under 4 hours,
> including a GPS18 back home at LXT.
>
> Thanks again for all of your advice. This was a fun trip for my wife
> and me.
>
>
> Chad Speer
> PP-ASEL, IA
> ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC
>

[Chad Speer]

Travis Marlatte wrote:

*****
Excellent, Chad. Glad it worked out.

Can you tally your expenses at Midway for us?
*****


Sure - easily done.

$7.50 Landing Fee

$15/night ramp fee - first night waived with minimum fuel purchase. My
22 gallons were enough, but I don't remember the minimum. I only
stayed one night, so no ramp fees.

Fuel was $4.83/gal for 100LL. Airnav is showing $5.23 as of Dec. 1. I
don't know if that's a price change or a weekend discount. I had heard
of a flowage fee, but no such creature showed up on my bill.

They plugged my Tanis heater in at no cost.

Total cost? $7.50 plus fuel.


Chad Speer
PP-ASEL, IA
ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

[[email protected]]

: Fuel was $4.83/gal for 100LL. Airnav is showing $5.23 as of Dec. 1. I
: don't know if that's a price change or a weekend discount. I had heard
: of a flowage fee, but no such creature showed up on my bill.

: They plugged my Tanis heater in at no cost.

: Total cost? $7.50 plus fuel.

That's a pretty big "plus."

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Chad Speer]

wrote:

*****
: Total cost? $7.50 plus fuel.

That's a pretty big "plus."
*****


It's also a variable. Saying my cost was $113.50 would be less useful
to someone burning more or less fuel for such a trip, so I put the fuel
price in the post.

No airport or FBO recommended in this thread was more than $1 per
gallon cheaper, so I figure I paid up to $22 total for the convenience
of Midway. I consider that to be a bargain.


Chad Speer
PP-ASEL, IA
ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

[[email protected]]

Chad Speer wrote:
> Travis Marlatte wrote:
>
> *****
> Excellent, Chad. Glad it worked out.
>
> Can you tally your expenses at Midway for us?
> *****
>
>
> Sure - easily done.
>
> $7.50 Landing Fee
>
> $15/night ramp fee - first night waived with minimum fuel purchase. My
> 22 gallons were enough, but I don't remember the minimum. I only
> stayed one night, so no ramp fees.
>
> Fuel was $4.83/gal for 100LL. Airnav is showing $5.23 as of Dec. 1. I
> don't know if that's a price change or a weekend discount. I had heard
> of a flowage fee, but no such creature showed up on my bill.
>
> They plugged my Tanis heater in at no cost.
>
> Total cost? $7.50 plus fuel.

Wow, a positive experience at MDW, its a Festivus Miracle :)...... JG