Filling with nitrogen

[scott moore]

Hi,

I am considering purchase of a nitrogen fill system. I don't have power
at my tiedown, and filling the tires with a 12 volt portable compressor
is a pain due to having to park the car near the tire, move to the
other side, etc. I figgured a nice nitrogen tank system would give me
a power free solution and fill the tire with the best possible kind
of gas.

I found a fill system online:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/nitrogenTire.php

My only question is why it says "no struts". That would seem to me
to be one of the best uses of this system, that I can top off my
strut, which is forever going low (on a Cessna). Is there a reason
for this restriction, and is there a system that can do struts?

Thank you.

Scott Moore

[scott moore]

scott moore wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am considering purchase of a nitrogen fill system. I don't have power
> at my tiedown, and filling the tires with a 12 volt portable compressor
> is a pain due to having to park the car near the tire, move to the
> other side, etc. I figgured a nice nitrogen tank system would give me
> a power free solution and fill the tire with the best possible kind
> of gas.
>
> I found a fill system online:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/nitrogenTire.php
>
> My only question is why it says "no struts". That would seem to me
> to be one of the best uses of this system, that I can top off my
> strut, which is forever going low (on a Cessna). Is there a reason
> for this restriction, and is there a system that can do struts?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Scott Moore

Another point on this, I note that the same company is selling a
hand pump for both tire and strut use:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2007Individual/Cat07578.pdf

This is completely confusing to me, why would just pumping air into
the strut be ok, but nitrogen not ok?

Scott Moore

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"scott moore" > wrote in message
...
> scott moore wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am considering purchase of a nitrogen fill system. I don't have power
>> at my tiedown, and filling the tires with a 12 volt portable compressor
>> is a pain due to having to park the car near the tire, move to the
>> other side, etc. I figgured a nice nitrogen tank system would give me
>> a power free solution and fill the tire with the best possible kind
>> of gas.
>>
>> I found a fill system online:
>>
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/nitrogenTire.php
>>
>> My only question is why it says "no struts". That would seem to me
>> to be one of the best uses of this system, that I can top off my
>> strut, which is forever going low (on a Cessna). Is there a reason
>> for this restriction, and is there a system that can do struts?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Scott Moore
>
> Another point on this, I note that the same company is selling a
> hand pump for both tire and strut use:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2007Individual/Cat07578.pdf
>
> This is completely confusing to me, why would just pumping air into
> the strut be ok, but nitrogen not ok?
>
> Scott Moore

It's just a WAG but it maybe certification issues.

[Jay Masino]

> > My only question is why it says "no struts". That would seem to me
> > to be one of the best uses of this system, that I can top off my
> > strut, which is forever going low (on a Cessna). Is there a reason
> > for this restriction, and is there a system that can do struts?
> >
>
> Another point on this, I note that the same company is selling a
> hand pump for both tire and strut use:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2007Individual/Cat07578.pdf
>

On your first "tank" solution, I suspect that the mentioned "pressure
reducing single stage regulator" doesn't go up to the pressures
neccessary for struts (usually atleast 150 psi).

I have a strut pump, as well as a high pressure tank that I use for my
struts. I only consider the pump as a backup. Nitrogen is best. I
think that it's a waste of time in a tire.

--- Jay

--

Jay Masino "Home is where My critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[scott moore]

Jay Masino wrote:
>>> My only question is why it says "no struts". That would seem to me
>>> to be one of the best uses of this system, that I can top off my
>>> strut, which is forever going low (on a Cessna). Is there a reason
>>> for this restriction, and is there a system that can do struts?
>>>
>> Another point on this, I note that the same company is selling a
>> hand pump for both tire and strut use:
>>
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2007Individual/Cat07578.pdf
>>
>
> On your first "tank" solution, I suspect that the mentioned "pressure
> reducing single stage regulator" doesn't go up to the pressures
> neccessary for struts (usually atleast 150 psi).
>
> I have a strut pump, as well as a high pressure tank that I use for my
> struts. I only consider the pump as a backup. Nitrogen is best. I
> think that it's a waste of time in a tire.
>
> --- Jay
>

May I ask, where did you get the high pressure setup for struts?

Scott Moore

[J. Severyn]

"scott moore" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Masino wrote:
>
> May I ask, where did you get the high pressure setup for struts?
>
> Scott Moore

This works just fine for struts:
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=675&ReturnPage=/shop/flyer.aspx?PageNo=1

John Severyn
@KLVK

[Jay Masino]

scott moore > wrote:
> May I ask, where did you get the high pressure setup for struts?
>

In my case, I sorta' "inherited" it from a airport old timer that lost
his medical and was getting out of aviation. My strut pump came from
Bogart (the same people that sell the Piper battery box mod and copper
cable mod)

--- Jay


--

Jay Masino "Home is where My critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"scott moore" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi,
>
> I am considering purchase of a nitrogen fill system. I don't have power
> at my tiedown, and filling the tires with a 12 volt portable compressor
> is a pain due to having to park the car near the tire, move to the
> other side, etc. I figgured a nice nitrogen tank system would give me
> a power free solution and fill the tire with the best possible kind
> of gas.
>
> I found a fill system online:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/nitrogenTire.php
>
> My only question is why it says "no struts". That would seem to me
> to be one of the best uses of this system, that I can top off my
> strut, which is forever going low (on a Cessna). Is there a reason
> for this restriction, and is there a system that can do struts?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Scott Moore

A $40 ten gallon air tank is way more than enough for tires.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Fly]

Expensive.
My set up costs:
Bottle of Nitrogen is about $100
A set of victor guages that the refirgeration guys use is about $110. 0-600
PSI on the low side.
$13 for the gooseneck to fit the schrader valve and $25 to have a long
hi-pressure hose made.

Keep in mind that it a takes high pressure to force the schrader's needle
valve open.

Kent Felkins
Tulsa



"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in message
...
> "scott moore" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am considering purchase of a nitrogen fill system. I don't have power
>> at my tiedown, and filling the tires with a 12 volt portable compressor
>> is a pain due to having to park the car near the tire, move to the
>> other side, etc. I figgured a nice nitrogen tank system would give me
>> a power free solution and fill the tire with the best possible kind
>> of gas.
>>
>> I found a fill system online:
>>
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/nitrogenTire.php
>>
>> My only question is why it says "no struts". That would seem to me
>> to be one of the best uses of this system, that I can top off my
>> strut, which is forever going low (on a Cessna). Is there a reason
>> for this restriction, and is there a system that can do struts?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Scott Moore
>
> A $40 ten gallon air tank is way more than enough for tires.
>
> --
> Geoff
> The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
> remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
> When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.
>

[Steve Schneider]

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
>
> A $40 ten gallon air tank is way more than enough for tires.
>
> --
> Geoff
> The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
> remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
> When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.
>
>

Agreed. I have a 5 Gallon tank (purchased for about $20 at Kragen) which
I take home to fill using my compressor about once or twice a year. With
no power in the hangar, this little tank works great to top off the
tires. It works well enough that I haven't bothered to keep track, but
I'd guess that I can put 2-5 lbs in all three tires for some 5 to 10
occasions before I'd need to refill the tank.

Steve

[Travis Marlatte]

"scott moore" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi,
>
> I am considering purchase of a nitrogen fill system. I don't have power
> at my tiedown, and filling the tires with a 12 volt portable compressor
> is a pain due to having to park the car near the tire, move to the
> other side, etc. I figgured a nice nitrogen tank system would give me
> a power free solution and fill the tire with the best possible kind
> of gas.
>
> I found a fill system online:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/nitrogenTire.php
>
> My only question is why it says "no struts". That would seem to me
> to be one of the best uses of this system, that I can top off my
> strut, which is forever going low (on a Cessna). Is there a reason
> for this restriction, and is there a system that can do struts?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Scott Moore


Nitrogen for tires? Isn't that kindof expensive?

I have a cordless air compressor. Rechargeable. Has a built in light.
Clearly designed for emergency car use. I love it. I think I bought it at
K-Mart and I have no idea how much I paid. I just Googled and saw prices
ranging from $40 to $60. Mine has been pumping away for about 6 years now. I
use it for the airplane, the car, the boat trailer, bicycles, no name it. It
has A/C charger and a cigarette lighter adapter for recharging.
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

[scott moore]

J. Severyn wrote:
> "scott moore" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jay Masino wrote:
>>
>> May I ask, where did you get the high pressure setup for struts?
>>
>> Scott Moore
>
> This works just fine for struts:
> http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=675&ReturnPage=/shop/flyer.aspx?PageNo=1
>
> John Severyn
> @KLVK
>
>

ok, I'm a bit confused here. Does it take 1,500 PSI to fill a strut? On
an ordinary Cessna 172?

Does the strut have a special fitting? Different from a tire fill valve?

Thank you.

Scott Moore

[scott moore]

Fly wrote:
> Expensive.
> My set up costs:
> Bottle of Nitrogen is about $100
> A set of victor guages that the refirgeration guys use is about $110. 0-600
> PSI on the low side.
> $13 for the gooseneck to fit the schrader valve and $25 to have a long
> hi-pressure hose made.
>
> Keep in mind that it a takes high pressure to force the schrader's needle
> valve open.
>
> Kent Felkins
> Tulsa

Ok, today I got the nitrogen bottle, it was about $100 for 40 (liters?).
The regulator is high side is 0-4000 psi, low side 0-200 PSI. Is this
enough, or do I need to exchange that, and what pressure is required?
Standard pressure hoses, as I am sure you are aware, are only good
up to 200psi.

Thanks for all the hints.

Scott Moore

[J. Severyn]

"scott moore" > wrote in message
...
>
> ok, I'm a bit confused here. Does it take 1,500 PSI to fill a strut? On
> an ordinary Cessna 172?
>
> Does the strut have a special fitting? Different from a tire fill valve?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Scott Moore

If you can get the aircraft weight off the strut, it can be filled with an
ordinary pump.... The fitting is a standard Schrader valve. (but a high
pressure version)

For instance: the 152 strut is filled with 5606 with the nose strut deflated
and the valve removed. Then the valve is inserted and all aircraft weight is
taken off the nose (tie down the tail). Then the strut is filled to 20 PSI.
Then the tail tie-down is removed (gently) and the nose wheel brought to the
ground.

I believe the 172 is the same.....but do not have a 172 maintenance manual
handy to check the exact pressure.

So you are correct, the high pressure pump is not needed for the 172 nose
strut.

However you will need the high pressure pump to inflate struts if the
aircraft weight cannot be conveniently taken off the gear as the required
pressure is above most standard shop air pressures.

John Severyn
@KLVK

[scott moore]

J. Severyn wrote:
> "scott moore" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ok, I'm a bit confused here. Does it take 1,500 PSI to fill a strut? On
>> an ordinary Cessna 172?
>>
>> Does the strut have a special fitting? Different from a tire fill valve?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Scott Moore
>
> If you can get the aircraft weight off the strut, it can be filled with an
> ordinary pump.... The fitting is a standard Schrader valve. (but a high
> pressure version)
>
> For instance: the 152 strut is filled with 5606 with the nose strut deflated
> and the valve removed. Then the valve is inserted and all aircraft weight is
> taken off the nose (tie down the tail). Then the strut is filled to 20 PSI.
> Then the tail tie-down is removed (gently) and the nose wheel brought to the
> ground.
>
> I believe the 172 is the same.....but do not have a 172 maintenance manual
> handy to check the exact pressure.
>
> So you are correct, the high pressure pump is not needed for the 172 nose
> strut.
>
> However you will need the high pressure pump to inflate struts if the
> aircraft weight cannot be conveniently taken off the gear as the required
> pressure is above most standard shop air pressures.
>
> John Severyn
> @KLVK
>
>

Thanks, that's a good clarification.

Scott Moore

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fly [mailto:fly at Tulsaconnect.com]
> Posted At: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:28 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
> Conversation: Filling with nitrogen
> Subject: Re: Filling with nitrogen
>
....
>
> Keep in mind that it a takes high pressure to force the schrader's
needle
> valve open.

The needle on the Schrader valve is opened with the center post of the
hose end, not from high-pressure in the hose. The fill adapter depresses
the valve stem.

>
> Kent Felkins
> Tulsa
>

[Fly]

> The needle on the Schrader valve is opened with the center post of the
> hose end, not from high-pressure in the hose. The fill adapter depresses
> the valve stem.
>

You have one of those fancy $30 adaptors that the turbine guys use.
Most common for GA lights planes is just the gooseneck by itself.
I started to explain about the tee-post adaptor but left it alone.
I think Aircraft tool supply carries them...
Kent

[Fly]

> Ok, today I got the nitrogen bottle, it was about $100 for 40 (liters?).
> The regulator is high side is 0-4000 psi, low side 0-200 PSI. Is this
> enough, or do I need to exchange that, and what pressure is required?
> Standard pressure hoses, as I am sure you are aware, are only good
> up to 200psi.

Seems it takes 200-300 psi. to open the schrader...
What plane you have?
Kent

[scott moore]

Fly wrote:
>> Ok, today I got the nitrogen bottle, it was about $100 for 40 (liters?).
>> The regulator is high side is 0-4000 psi, low side 0-200 PSI. Is this
>> enough, or do I need to exchange that, and what pressure is required?
>> Standard pressure hoses, as I am sure you are aware, are only good
>> up to 200psi.
>
> Seems it takes 200-300 psi. to open the schrader...
> What plane you have?
> Kent
>
>

C-172.

Scott Moore

[scott moore]

Ok, I'm showing in the $400's to get that high. The regulator I got, a
victor 0871-0044, 5-125 psig is $146.

http://www.toolfetch.com/Brand/Victor/Welding/Regulators/

What I am going to use this for is to fill tires and service the strut
at my powerless tiedown location. The price difference covers that
the strut pump costs:

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?CookieTest=Yes&PRODUCT_ID=675&ReturnPage=%2fshop%2fflyer.aspx%3fPageNo%3d1

Besides I assume also having the correct fittings I need for the
scheader valve.

So it seems the way to go is stay with the low pressure system I have
for tires, then use the strut pump to multiply pressure to get that
done, which is a less frequent event.

Have I missed anything?

Scott Moore

Fly wrote:
> Expensive.
> My set up costs:
> Bottle of Nitrogen is about $100
> A set of victor guages that the refirgeration guys use is about $110. 0-600
> PSI on the low side.
> $13 for the gooseneck to fit the schrader valve and $25 to have a long
> hi-pressure hose made.
>
> Keep in mind that it a takes high pressure to force the schrader's needle
> valve open.
>
> Kent Felkins
> Tulsa

[Robert Dorsey]

I was thinking about this kit for my struts. The hand pumps are nice
for an emergency fill with air or H if you have a tank sitting around,
but this kit isn't too much more money and stowes nicely away.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/product.php?productid=56&cat=11&page=1





On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 17:28:07 -0600, "Fly" <fly at Tulsaconnect.com>
wrote:

>Expensive.
>My set up costs:
>Bottle of Nitrogen is about $100
>A set of victor guages that the refirgeration guys use is about $110. 0-600
>PSI on the low side.
>$13 for the gooseneck to fit the schrader valve and $25 to have a long
>hi-pressure hose made.
>
>Keep in mind that it a takes high pressure to force the schrader's needle
>valve open.
>
>Kent Felkins
>Tulsa
>
>
>
>"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in message
...
>> "scott moore" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am considering purchase of a nitrogen fill system. I don't have power
>>> at my tiedown, and filling the tires with a 12 volt portable compressor
>>> is a pain due to having to park the car near the tire, move to the
>>> other side, etc. I figgured a nice nitrogen tank system would give me
>>> a power free solution and fill the tire with the best possible kind
>>> of gas.
>>>
>>> I found a fill system online:
>>>
>>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/nitrogenTire.php
>>>
>>> My only question is why it says "no struts". That would seem to me
>>> to be one of the best uses of this system, that I can top off my
>>> strut, which is forever going low (on a Cessna). Is there a reason
>>> for this restriction, and is there a system that can do struts?
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Scott Moore
>>
>> A $40 ten gallon air tank is way more than enough for tires.
>>
>> --
>> Geoff
>> The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
>> remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
>> When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.
>>
>

[Fly]

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/flyer.aspx

Shows a strut pump coupler.

My regulator says Victor Medalist P250-500



Kent