LightSpeed QFR CC ANR vs Bose Aviation X

[jbskies]

I have used LightSpeed QFR Cross Country (ANR) headset for 4 years.
During this AOPA 2006 convention, I was tempted by the Bose's discount
and purchased a Bose X headset. After 2 flights, today I decide to
return the Bose headset.

The reason that I return the Bose is because it seems to be noisier
than the QFR CC. I could hear all kinds of higher frequency noise
during the flights that made me feel uncomfortable. However, I feel
upset because all the reviews saying Bose X is better in noise
cancellation, which I don't agree. Is there any one who has the same
experience as me? BTW, I also own a LightSpeed 20-3G headset. I
only wore it for several flights before I put it on my passenger seat
for the occasional passenger. I felt it is nosier than the QFR. BTW,
I brought my QFR ANR headsets for $230 per pair.

Thanks in advance.

[Paul kgyy]

I haven't tried the QFR ANR version, but have the non-ANR version for
passenger use. I was very impressed with the amount of passive noise
rejection, and this is probably contributing to your satisfaction with
the ANR version.

ANR isn't a magic bullet. I have the Lightspeed 30-3G ANR set and the
noise level drops dramatically when I turn it on, yet on longer flights
the noise still bothers. I haven't tried the Bose.

At Oshkosh I bought the Clarity Aloft non-ANR set with foam in-ear
phones. It has the opposite effect of the Lightspeed 30-3G for me:
seems louder initially, but seems to get quieter and more comfortable
as the flight progresses.

Headphones experience is extremely personal.

[[email protected]]

jbskies > wrote:
: I have used LightSpeed QFR Cross Country (ANR) headset for 4 years.
: During this AOPA 2006 convention, I was tempted by the Bose's discount
: and purchased a Bose X headset. After 2 flights, today I decide to
: return the Bose headset.

: The reason that I return the Bose is because it seems to be noisier
: than the QFR CC. I could hear all kinds of higher frequency noise
: during the flights that made me feel uncomfortable. However, I feel
: upset because all the reviews saying Bose X is better in noise
: cancellation, which I don't agree. Is there any one who has the same
: experience as me? BTW, I also own a LightSpeed 20-3G headset. I
: only wore it for several flights before I put it on my passenger seat
: for the occasional passenger. I felt it is nosier than the QFR. BTW,
: I brought my QFR ANR headsets for $230 per pair.

: Thanks in advance.

I have had the same experience with the "higher-end" Lightspeed headsets. I've got a few pilot friends who have the
15XL, 20XL, 25XL, 30XL, and 3G IIRC... they're all the same. They have a great "wow-factor" of ANR by getting rid of the first
few engine harmonics (say, up to 800Hz or so). After that, they provide little to no attentuation, and in some cases actually
*amplify* the noise. I think I might be particularly susceptible to the 1-3kHz frequency range (where they tend to suck and/or
amplify the noise). I don't remember where I saw the review that showed the spillover (i.e. noise amplification) at 1-3 kHz.

In any event, I find when I'm wearing one of those, then engine noise goes away rather impressively, but the
radios/intercom become harder to hear. I have to turn up the volume to make out the voice (coincidentially also around 1-2kHz
for most of the intelligibility part) in lieu of the ambient noise. In fact, the amount I have to turn it up becomes almost
painful to me.

I've got some clampy passives, and some LightSpeed XFR CC ANR's that I use primarily... good passives, kills the highs,
and takes the edge off the engine noise (10dB or so maybe). Comfortable, (relatively) cheap, and better for your hearing, I'm
pretty sure.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Drew Dalgleish]

I have QFR solos as well I haven't tried the bose headsets and don't
plan to. The lightspeed do everything I need very well and
comfortably.

>jbskies > wrote:
>: I have used LightSpeed QFR Cross Country (ANR) headset for 4 years.
>: During this AOPA 2006 convention, I was tempted by the Bose's discount
>: and purchased a Bose X headset. After 2 flights, today I decide to
>: return the Bose headset.
>
>: The reason that I return the Bose is because it seems to be noisier
>: than the QFR CC. I could hear all kinds of higher frequency noise
>: during the flights that made me feel uncomfortable. However, I feel
>: upset because all the reviews saying Bose X is better in noise
>: cancellation, which I don't agree. Is there any one who has the same
>: experience as me? BTW, I also own a LightSpeed 20-3G headset. I
>: only wore it for several flights before I put it on my passenger seat
>: for the occasional passenger. I felt it is nosier than the QFR. BTW,
>: I brought my QFR ANR headsets for $230 per pair.
>
>: Thanks in advance.
>
> I have had the same experience with the "higher-end" Lightspeed headsets. I've got a few pilot friends who have the
>15XL, 20XL, 25XL, 30XL, and 3G IIRC... they're all the same. They have a great "wow-factor" of ANR by getting rid of the first
>few engine harmonics (say, up to 800Hz or so). After that, they provide little to no attentuation, and in some cases actually
>*amplify* the noise. I think I might be particularly susceptible to the 1-3kHz frequency range (where they tend to suck and/or
>amplify the noise). I don't remember where I saw the review that showed the spillover (i.e. noise amplification) at 1-3 kHz.
>
> In any event, I find when I'm wearing one of those, then engine noise goes away rather impressively, but the
>radios/intercom become harder to hear. I have to turn up the volume to make out the voice (coincidentially also around 1-2kHz
>for most of the intelligibility part) in lieu of the ambient noise. In fact, the amount I have to turn it up becomes almost
>painful to me.
>
> I've got some clampy passives, and some LightSpeed XFR CC ANR's that I use primarily... good passives, kills the highs,
>and takes the edge off the engine noise (10dB or so maybe). Comfortable, (relatively) cheap, and better for your hearing, I'm
>pretty sure.
>
>-Cory
>
>--
>
>************************************************** ***********************
>* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
>* Electrical Engineering *
>* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
>************************************************** ***********************
>

[Denny]

Hmmm, interesting Cory... I settled on the 20-3G's for Fat Alberts
seats... Now, I have exactly the opposite experience, in that when I
turn OFF the ANR I the radio volume is overwhelmed by the engine noise
and have to turn it up to a loud level... When I turn the ANR back ON
suddenly the radio is blasting my ears.. The radio has no way of
knowing or responding to the ANR setting of the head set... This
behavior is identical to every ANR headset I have used... You can
check to see if there is a difference in the audio passed throught he
headset by listening to the radio with the engine off and switching the
ANR on and off...

I fly in a friends planes (GlassAir and P-Centurion) and he is a Bose
True Believer. with 8 sets of them.. I am not impressed with his
headsets... They sound good in his P-210, which is cathedral quiet to
start with, in fact so good I normally push them up on my hat because I
can hear just fine without them... In the GlassAir they lack passive
reduction for that rip snorting engine out front and the scream of air
going over the airframe at 230 knots...

On long flights, I have never found a headset that gets better as the
hours go by... This past summer I made numerous trips hauling
grandchildren around the Great Lakes.. 6 to 9 flying hours a day at a
time... From experience I know how the headsets aggravate after a few
hours.. I took DC's, and LightSpeed, and Telex sets with me and swapped
them as I went along... I was sick of headsets, and airplanes, and
sitting, and noise, and not being able to pee, by the time I painfully
crawled back out of the plane... It did NOT get better as the day wore
on... The LightSpeed is the best of the bunch in my opinion, ymmv..

denny

[[email protected]]

All comments given with the understanding that each person is different and
has different preferences.

Denny > wrote:
: Hmmm, interesting Cory... I settled on the 20-3G's for Fat Alberts
: seats... Now, I have exactly the opposite experience, in that when I
: turn OFF the ANR I the radio volume is overwhelmed by the engine noise
: and have to turn it up to a loud level... When I turn the ANR back ON
: suddenly the radio is blasting my ears.. The radio has no way of
: knowing or responding to the ANR setting of the head set... This
: behavior is identical to every ANR headset I have used... You can
: check to see if there is a difference in the audio passed throught he
: headset by listening to the radio with the engine off and switching the
: ANR on and off...

Couple of issues with this. First of all, the active part of the headset can
be set to amplify the incoming signal when activated. Secondly, the incoming signal
could be frequency shaped... either directly, or through the feedback path of the ANR.
Thirdly, the "loudness" is a *perceived* amount... frequency-dependent and
invidual-person independent.

I personally find on the 20-3G-flavor Lightspeeds that without the ANR, I
cannot hear much of anything out the radio or intercom without having it up painfully
loud. With the ANR on, the engine magically disappears, but I *still* cannot
adequately understand the speech over the radio or intercom without having the volume
up too loud. I suspect it has to do with the amplification of the noise in the voice
range (1-2kHz) as in my original post.

... and yes, I've had my hearing checked recently. I helped a fellow grad
student a year or so ago here at Tech who needed certificated IFR-rated pilots for a
BUNCH of sim time. Part of that was a thorough hearing test. If anything, I might be
overly sensitive due to good hearing ;)

: I fly in a friends planes (GlassAir and P-Centurion) and he is a Bose
: True Believer. with 8 sets of them.. I am not impressed with his
: headsets... They sound good in his P-210, which is cathedral quiet to
: start with, in fact so good I normally push them up on my hat because I
: can hear just fine without them... In the GlassAir they lack passive
: reduction for that rip snorting engine out front and the scream of air
: going over the airframe at 230 knots...

Passive: Good at "high" frequencies... where "high" is more or less determined by the
relationship between the frequency and the mass of the headsets. That's why putting
your hands on a passive headset helps dramatically with engine noise.... hands ==>
more effective mass. Unfortunately, headsets have to be light for fatigue reasons.

Active: Good at "low" frequencies... Engine and it's first harmonics relatively easy
to cancel. Unfortunately, too agressive of performance within a low-frequency band
often leads to "spill-over" at high frequencies.

: On long flights, I have never found a headset that gets better as the
: hours go by... This past summer I made numerous trips hauling
: grandchildren around the Great Lakes.. 6 to 9 flying hours a day at a
: time... From experience I know how the headsets aggravate after a few
: hours.. I took DC's, and LightSpeed, and Telex sets with me and swapped
: them as I went along... I was sick of headsets, and airplanes, and
: sitting, and noise, and not being able to pee, by the time I painfully
: crawled back out of the plane... It did NOT get better as the day wore
: on... The LightSpeed is the best of the bunch in my opinion, ymmv..

Another reason I like the Lightspeed QFR-CC headsets. Minimal clamping force
makes the pretty comfortable. Mild ANR takes the edge off the engine.

As an interesting side-note, I've got a friend with a Sea-Ray... experimental
2-place flying boat (fiberglass hull, high-wing, pusher, with Rotax 912S mounted high
and behind the cockpit). It's gear-reduced, so engine RPM is typically around 4500 in
cruise IIRC with a 3-blade prop. Using his Lightspeed 25XL's (or similar), I
literally couldn't tell if the headsets were on or not in flight... higher frequency
engine noise not cancelled, and the passive performance was minimal where it counted.
I could converse with him easier with the headset off my head.

He tried my QFR-CC headsets and the next day bought 2 of them for the plane...

Oh... and almost this exact topic was the subject of my dissertation which I
finished this past spring... :)

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:06:16 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

> All comments given with the understanding that each person is different and
>has different preferences.
>

I intend purchasing two of these headsets but the rebranded version
(MG Golden Eagle) from:
http://www.marvgolden.com/headsets/goldeneagleanr.htm
I e-mailed Marv Golden and they said in a perfect world you should be
able to get 38 db of noise reduction in ANR mode.