View Full Version : Contact Approach -- WX reporting
December 14th 06, 03:55 AM
It was briefly mentioned in one of the longer threads that a contact
approach requires 1 sm reported ground visibility. It reminded me that
I had flown a contact approach some 8 months ago to an airport about 15
minutes after the tower had closed (there is no automated weather
available) and couldn't land because fog and low clouds had rolled in.
So did approach control screw up? I'm sure they had the last ATIS
report some 70 to 80 minutes old at the time of my request, and the
weather was good in that report.
Interestingly, both the AIM and the 7110.65 say that a requirement for
ATC authorization of a contact approach is that "The reported ground
visibility is at least 1 statute mile."
But the AIM starts out by saying: "Pilots operating in accordance with
an IFR flight plan, provided they are clear of clouds and have at least
1 mile flight visibility and can reasonably expect to continue to the
destination airport in those conditions, may request ATC authorization
for a contact approach."
Newps
December 14th 06, 04:07 AM
wrote:
> It was briefly mentioned in one of the longer threads that a contact
> approach requires 1 sm reported ground visibility. It reminded me that
> I had flown a contact approach some 8 months ago to an airport about 15
> minutes after the tower had closed (there is no automated weather
> available) and couldn't land because fog and low clouds had rolled in.
>
> So did approach control screw up? I'm sure they had the last ATIS
> report some 70 to 80 minutes old at the time of my request, and the
> weather was good in that report.
So you're saying that the controllers are the weather observers there?
That would put it in a gray area. The book states that weather must be
available. If you received the clearance before the tower closed that
would be OK.
>
> Interestingly, both the AIM and the 7110.65 say that a requirement for
> ATC authorization of a contact approach is that "The reported ground
> visibility is at least 1 statute mile."
>
> But the AIM starts out by saying: "Pilots operating in accordance with
> an IFR flight plan, provided they are clear of clouds and have at least
> 1 mile flight visibility and can reasonably expect to continue to the
> destination airport in those conditions, may request ATC authorization
> for a contact approach."
Flight viz is irrelavant. The determining factor is reported ground viz.
Jim Macklin
December 14th 06, 04:25 AM
The pilot requests a contact approach and ATC can approve if
the most recent [weather is considered current for one hour]
was reported as 1 SM. A visual appraoch may be requested by
the pilot or initiated by ATC if visual requirements are
meet.
In any case the pilot may refuse the clearance. In
addition, if visibility drops below the required minimum,
the pilot is required to report and get/resume IFR
procedures.
AIM
5-4-22. Visual Approach
a. A visual approach is conducted on an IFR flight plan and
authorizes a pilot to proceed visually and clear of clouds
to the airport. The pilot must have either the airport or
the preceding identified aircraft in sight. This approach
must be authorized and controlled by the appropriate air
traffic control facility. Reported weather at the airport
must have a ceiling at or above 1,000 feet and visibility 3
miles or greater. ATC may authorize this type approach when
it will be operationally beneficial. Visual approaches are
an IFR procedure conducted under IFR in visual
meteorological conditions. Cloud clearance requirements of
14 CFR Section 91.155 are not applicable, unless required by
operation specifications.
b. Operating to an Airport Without Weather Reporting
Service. ATC will advise the pilot when weather is not
available at the destination airport. ATC may initiate a
visual approach provided there is a reasonable assurance
that weather at the airport is a ceiling at or above 1,000
feet and visibility 3 miles or greater (e.g., area weather
reports, PIREPs, etc.).
c. Operating to an Airport With an Operating Control Tower.
Aircraft may be authorized to conduct a visual approach to
one runway while other aircraft are conducting IFR or VFR
approaches to another parallel, intersecting, or converging
runway. When operating to airports with parallel runways
separated by less than 2,500 feet, the succeeding aircraft
must report sighting the preceding aircraft unless standard
separation is being provided by ATC. When operating to
parallel runways separated by at least 2,500 feet but less
than 4,300 feet, controllers will clear/vector aircraft to
the final at an angle not greater than 30 degrees unless
radar, vertical, or visual separation is provided during the
turn-on. The purpose of the 30 degree intercept angle is to
reduce the potential for overshoots of the final and to
preclude side-by-side operations with one or both aircraft
in a belly-up configuration during the turn-on. Once the
aircraft are established within 30 degrees of final, or on
the final, these operations may be conducted simultaneously.
When the parallel runways are separated by 4,300 feet or
more, or intersecting/converging runways are in use, ATC may
authorize a visual approach after advising all aircraft
involved that other aircraft are conducting operations to
the other runway. This may be accomplished through use of
the ATIS.
d. Separation Responsibilities. If the pilot has the airport
in sight but cannot see the aircraft to be followed, ATC may
clear the aircraft for a visual approach; however, ATC
retains both separation and wake vortex separation
responsibility. When visually following a preceding
aircraft, acceptance of the visual approach clearance
constitutes acceptance of pilot responsibility for
maintaining a safe approach interval and adequate wake
turbulence separation.
e. A visual approach is not an IAP and therefore has no
missed approach segment. If a go around is necessary for any
reason, aircraft operating at controlled airports will be
issued an appropriate advisory/clearance/instruction by the
tower. At uncontrolled airports, aircraft are expected to
remain clear of clouds and complete a landing as soon as
possible. If a landing cannot be accomplished, the aircraft
is expected to remain clear of clouds and contact ATC as
soon as possible for further clearance. Separation from
other IFR aircraft will be maintained under these
circumstances.
f. Visual approaches reduce pilot/controller workload and
expedite traffic by shortening flight paths to the airport.
It is the pilot's responsibility to advise ATC as soon as
possible if a visual approach is not desired.
g. Authorization to conduct a visual approach is an IFR
authorization and does not alter IFR flight plan
cancellation responsibility.
REFERENCE-
AIM, Canceling IFR Flight Plan, Paragraph 5-1-14.
h. Radar service is automatically terminated, without
advising the pilot, when the aircraft is instructed to
change to advisory frequency.
5-4-23. Charted Visual Flight Procedure (CVFP)
a. CVFPs are charted visual approaches established for
environmental/noise considerations, and/or when necessary
for the safety and efficiency of air traffic operations. The
approach charts depict prominent landmarks, courses, and
recommended altitudes to specific runways. CVFPs are
designed to be used primarily for turbojet aircraft.
b. These procedures will be used only at airports with an
operating control tower.
c. Most approach charts will depict some NAVAID information
which is for supplemental navigational guidance only.
d. Unless indicating a Class B airspace floor, all depicted
altitudes are for noise abatement purposes and are
recommended only. Pilots are not prohibited from flying
other than recommended altitudes if operational requirements
dictate.
e. When landmarks used for navigation are not visible at
night, the approach will be annotated "PROCEDURE NOT
AUTHORIZED AT NIGHT."
f. CVFPs usually begin within 20 flying miles from the
airport.
g. Published weather minimums for CVFPs are based on minimum
vectoring altitudes rather than the recommended altitudes
depicted on charts.
h. CVFPs are not instrument approaches and do not have
missed approach segments.
i. ATC will not issue clearances for CVFPs when the weather
is less than the published minimum.
j. ATC will clear aircraft for a CVFP after the pilot
reports siting a charted landmark or a preceding aircraft.
If instructed to follow a preceding aircraft, pilots are
responsible for maintaining a safe approach interval and
wake turbulence separation.
k. Pilots should advise ATC if at any point they are unable
to continue an approach or lose sight of a preceding
aircraft. Missed approaches will be handled as a go-around.
5-4-24. Contact Approach
a. Pilots operating in accordance with an IFR flight plan,
provided they are clear of clouds and have at least 1 mile
flight visibility and can reasonably expect to continue to
the destination airport in those conditions, may request ATC
authorization for a contact approach.
b. Controllers may authorize a contact approach provided:
1. The contact approach is specifically requested by the
pilot. ATC cannot initiate this approach.
EXAMPLE-
Request contact approach.
2. The reported ground visibility at the destination airport
is at least 1 statute mile.
3. The contact approach will be made to an airport having a
standard or special instrument approach procedure.
4. Approved separation is applied between aircraft so
cleared and between these aircraft and other IFR or special
VFR aircraft.
EXAMPLE-
Cleared contact approach (and, if required) at or below
(altitude) (routing) if not possible (alternative
procedures) and advise.
c. A contact approach is an approach procedure that may be
used by a pilot (with prior authorization from ATC) in lieu
of conducting a standard or special IAP to an airport. It is
not intended for use by a pilot on an IFR flight clearance
to operate to an airport not having a published and
functioning IAP. Nor is it intended for an aircraft to
conduct an instrument approach to one airport and then, when
"in the clear," discontinue that approach and proceed to
another airport. In the execution of a contact approach, the
pilot assumes the responsibility for obstruction clearance.
If radar service is being received, it will automatically
terminate when the pilot is instructed to change to advisory
frequency.
"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
|
|
| wrote:
| > It was briefly mentioned in one of the longer threads
that a contact
| > approach requires 1 sm reported ground visibility. It
reminded me that
| > I had flown a contact approach some 8 months ago to an
airport about 15
| > minutes after the tower had closed (there is no
automated weather
| > available) and couldn't land because fog and low clouds
had rolled in.
| >
| > So did approach control screw up? I'm sure they had the
last ATIS
| > report some 70 to 80 minutes old at the time of my
request, and the
| > weather was good in that report.
|
| So you're saying that the controllers are the weather
observers there?
| That would put it in a gray area. The book states that
weather must be
| available. If you received the clearance before the tower
closed that
| would be OK.
|
|
|
| >
| > Interestingly, both the AIM and the 7110.65 say that a
requirement for
| > ATC authorization of a contact approach is that "The
reported ground
| > visibility is at least 1 statute mile."
| >
| > But the AIM starts out by saying: "Pilots operating in
accordance with
| > an IFR flight plan, provided they are clear of clouds
and have at least
| > 1 mile flight visibility and can reasonably expect to
continue to the
| > destination airport in those conditions, may request ATC
authorization
| > for a contact approach."
|
| Flight viz is irrelavant. The determining factor is
reported ground viz.
December 14th 06, 04:28 AM
Newps wrote:
> So you're saying that the controllers are the weather observers there?
> That would put it in a gray area. The book states that weather must be
> available. If you received the clearance before the tower closed that
> would be OK.
Yes the controllers are the weather observers. Why does that make it a
gray area?
I'm pretty sure the clearance came after the tower closed. I've also
noticed that the approach controllers occasionally loose track of time
and they don't always realize the tower has closed. Maybe that's what
happened. Or the controller wasn't fresh on contact approaches, since
I think its used relatively rarely around here. By the way, this is a
small satellite airport under Class B and C airspace, if that makes a
difference.
Dan[_1_]
December 14th 06, 04:50 AM
Since a contact approach requires the airport to have an IFR approach,
I fail to see the advantage of a contact approach. If visibility is at
1 mile, I think I would rather just fly the approach than pick around
for the airport in those conditions - too risky. Where is the
advantage? Following other traffic visually?
--Dan
wrote:
> Newps wrote:
> > So you're saying that the controllers are the weather observers there?
> > That would put it in a gray area. The book states that weather must be
> > available. If you received the clearance before the tower closed that
> > would be OK.
>
> Yes the controllers are the weather observers. Why does that make it a
> gray area?
>
> I'm pretty sure the clearance came after the tower closed. I've also
> noticed that the approach controllers occasionally loose track of time
> and they don't always realize the tower has closed. Maybe that's what
> happened. Or the controller wasn't fresh on contact approaches, since
> I think its used relatively rarely around here. By the way, this is a
> small satellite airport under Class B and C airspace, if that makes a
> difference.
Jose[_1_]
December 14th 06, 05:02 AM
> If visibility is at
> 1 mile, I think I would rather just fly the approach than pick around
> for the airport in those conditions - too risky. Where is the
> advantage? Following other traffic visually?
It could shorten the time in the air. Some approaches require a ten
mile detour. In low vis, you could be vectored over the airport and
request a contact approach. Boom, you're down. Otherwise, it's out to
the IAF, be vectored around due to traffic... finally get down ten
minutes later just as fog rolls in.
Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
Jim Macklin
December 14th 06, 05:05 AM
1 mile is the minimum, but if you had to fly to the fix,
possibly an NDB or VOR on or very near the airport and then
fly a procedure turn, you are adding 10-15 minutes to the
flight. A contact approach saves time and time is money for
a freight pilot's company. Company loose money, pilot loose
job.
On a contact approach you do not follow anybody, you are the
only airplane and you navigate to the airport directly.
A visual approach may be instigated by the controller if the
weather is good VFR. When the controller asks, "Cessna
123XB, do you have traffic in sight? or "Report the airport
insight" the next words you'll hear will probably be "Cessna
123XB cleared for the visual."
Pilots request a contact approach and a controller may
approve. ATC may issue a visual approach and pilots may
reject it.
In any case, the pilot doing a contact approach must
maintain a flight visibility of 1 sm while the controller
can't issue the clearance unless the visibility is reported
as 1 sm. At airports without official weather reporting,
the pilot can report to ATC that visibility is such and such
and he can maintain VMC and request a contact approach, the
pilot become the weather observer. The advantage is that
the IFR clearance is still in the system and the pilot has
the "out." It keeps an active flight plan, which is nice er
than canceling IFR and then nobody will look for you.
"Dan" > wrote in message
ups.com...
| Since a contact approach requires the airport to have an
IFR approach,
| I fail to see the advantage of a contact approach. If
visibility is at
| 1 mile, I think I would rather just fly the approach than
pick around
| for the airport in those conditions - too risky. Where is
the
| advantage? Following other traffic visually?
|
| --Dan
|
|
| wrote:
| > Newps wrote:
| > > So you're saying that the controllers are the weather
observers there?
| > > That would put it in a gray area. The book states
that weather must be
| > > available. If you received the clearance before the
tower closed that
| > > would be OK.
| >
| > Yes the controllers are the weather observers. Why does
that make it a
| > gray area?
| >
| > I'm pretty sure the clearance came after the tower
closed. I've also
| > noticed that the approach controllers occasionally loose
track of time
| > and they don't always realize the tower has closed.
Maybe that's what
| > happened. Or the controller wasn't fresh on contact
approaches, since
| > I think its used relatively rarely around here. By the
way, this is a
| > small satellite airport under Class B and C airspace, if
that makes a
| > difference.
|
December 14th 06, 05:06 AM
Dan wrote:
> Since a contact approach requires the airport to have an IFR approach,
> I fail to see the advantage of a contact approach. If visibility is at
> 1 mile, I think I would rather just fly the approach than pick around
> for the airport in those conditions - too risky. Where is the
> advantage? Following other traffic visually?
>
> --Dan
The way I see it, its the IFR equivalent of Special VFR. So you can
sneak under a cloud layer and not wait 20 minutes to get the instrument
approach (which is clogged by traffic at a nearby airport).
There are always uses, and, yes, it can by risky. That's why pilots
have to request contact approaches (they can't be assigned by ATC
otherwise).
December 14th 06, 05:17 AM
Jim Macklin wrote:
> At airports without official weather reporting,
> the pilot can report to ATC that visibility is such and such
> and he can maintain VMC and request a contact approach, the
> pilot become the weather observer.
Can you really do that? A pilot's guess of ground visibility from
aloft is good enough for the FAA?
> The advantage is that
> the IFR clearance is still in the system and the pilot has
> the "out." It keeps an active flight plan, which is nice er
> than canceling IFR and then nobody will look for you.
I wouldn't consider search-and-rescue an "out." The only thing I can
think of is that staying IFR keeps other IFR traffic out of your hair.
Is there another advantage?
karl gruber[_1_]
December 14th 06, 05:42 AM
One advantage (without looking at the regs so beat me up) is if you are VFR
and want to make a low weather scud run into an airport where "special VFR"
is NOT available.
Just ask the tower for a "Contact approach" instead.
Karl
"Curator" worlds most hangar queeny Skywagon.
"Dan" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Since a contact approach requires the airport to have an IFR approach,
> I fail to see the advantage of a contact approach. If visibility is at
> 1 mile, I think I would rather just fly the approach than pick around
> for the airport in those conditions - too risky. Where is the
> advantage? Following other traffic visually?
>
> --Dan
>
>
> wrote:
>> Newps wrote:
>> > So you're saying that the controllers are the weather observers there?
>> > That would put it in a gray area. The book states that weather must be
>> > available. If you received the clearance before the tower closed that
>> > would be OK.
>>
>> Yes the controllers are the weather observers. Why does that make it a
>> gray area?
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the clearance came after the tower closed. I've also
>> noticed that the approach controllers occasionally loose track of time
>> and they don't always realize the tower has closed. Maybe that's what
>> happened. Or the controller wasn't fresh on contact approaches, since
>> I think its used relatively rarely around here. By the way, this is a
>> small satellite airport under Class B and C airspace, if that makes a
>> difference.
>
Jim Macklin
December 14th 06, 06:40 AM
The OUT is that you are in the system and can resume IFR.
S&R is a function of a flight plan. Commercial flights are
required to be "on a flight plan" and canceling IFR even for
the last few minutes of a charter flight puts you in
violation.
Flight visibility is solely judged by the pilot on an IFR
approach, once the first step is passed. ATC will clear any
airplane to make any approach the pilot requests. The pilot
is not supposed to request or begin an approach if the
weather is below visibility minimums. But any pilot, Part
91,121, 125, or 135 is the only person who can judge flight
visibility and that is the controlling visibility on an IFR
approach.
How do you judge visibility? Standard approach lights are
of a certain size as are the runway lights. You learn how
to judge, 91.175 (c)(2) The flight visibility is not less
than the visibility prescribed in the standard instrument
approach being used; and
1.1
Flight visibility means the average forward horizontal
distance, from the cockpit of an aircraft in flight, at
which prominent unlighted objects may be seen and identified
by day and prominent lighted objects may be seen and
identified by night.
> wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| > At airports without official weather reporting,
| > the pilot can report to ATC that visibility is such and
such
| > and he can maintain VMC and request a contact approach,
the
| > pilot become the weather observer.
|
| Can you really do that? A pilot's guess of ground
visibility from
| aloft is good enough for the FAA?
|
| > The advantage is that
| > the IFR clearance is still in the system and the pilot
has
| > the "out." It keeps an active flight plan, which is
nice er
| > than canceling IFR and then nobody will look for you.
|
| I wouldn't consider search-and-rescue an "out." The only
thing I can
| think of is that staying IFR keeps other IFR traffic out
of your hair.
| Is there another advantage?
|
December 14th 06, 07:25 AM
I didn't ask about flight visibility. The rules clearly state that ATC
can only authorize a contact approach if GROUND visibility is reported
to be at least one statute mile.
So, let me ask again. Can you report GROUND visibility from thousands
of feet above the airport? How about if you're still 10 miles out?
And, further, is that report something a pilot can do anyway, or does
it have to be an official weather report?
Jim Macklin wrote:
> The OUT is that you are in the system and can resume IFR.
> S&R is a function of a flight plan. Commercial flights are
> required to be "on a flight plan" and canceling IFR even for
> the last few minutes of a charter flight puts you in
> violation.
>
>
> Flight visibility is solely judged by the pilot on an IFR
> approach, once the first step is passed. ATC will clear any
> airplane to make any approach the pilot requests. The pilot
> is not supposed to request or begin an approach if the
> weather is below visibility minimums. But any pilot, Part
> 91,121, 125, or 135 is the only person who can judge flight
> visibility and that is the controlling visibility on an IFR
> approach.
>
> How do you judge visibility? Standard approach lights are
> of a certain size as are the runway lights. You learn how
> to judge, 91.175 (c)(2) The flight visibility is not less
> than the visibility prescribed in the standard instrument
> approach being used; and
> 1.1
> Flight visibility means the average forward horizontal
> distance, from the cockpit of an aircraft in flight, at
> which prominent unlighted objects may be seen and identified
> by day and prominent lighted objects may be seen and
> identified by night.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> |
> | Jim Macklin wrote:
> |
> | > At airports without official weather reporting,
> | > the pilot can report to ATC that visibility is such and
> such
> | > and he can maintain VMC and request a contact approach,
> the
> | > pilot become the weather observer.
> |
> | Can you really do that? A pilot's guess of ground
> visibility from
> | aloft is good enough for the FAA?
> |
> | > The advantage is that
> | > the IFR clearance is still in the system and the pilot
> has
> | > the "out." It keeps an active flight plan, which is
> nice er
> | > than canceling IFR and then nobody will look for you.
> |
> | I wouldn't consider search-and-rescue an "out." The only
> thing I can
> | think of is that staying IFR keeps other IFR traffic out
> of your hair.
> | Is there another advantage?
> |
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 12:16 PM
wrote:
>
> It was briefly mentioned in one of the longer threads that a contact
> approach requires 1 sm reported ground visibility. It reminded me that
> I had flown a contact approach some 8 months ago to an airport about 15
> minutes after the tower had closed (there is no automated weather
> available) and couldn't land because fog and low clouds had rolled in.
>
> So did approach control screw up? I'm sure they had the last ATIS
> report some 70 to 80 minutes old at the time of my request, and the
> weather was good in that report.
>
If the tower had closed just fifteen minutes earlier approach may have
had a weather observation less than 30 minutes old.
>
> Interestingly, both the AIM and the 7110.65 say that a requirement for
> ATC authorization of a contact approach is that "The reported ground
> visibility is at least 1 statute mile."
>
> But the AIM starts out by saying: "Pilots operating in accordance with
> an IFR flight plan, provided they are clear of clouds and have at least
> 1 mile flight visibility and can reasonably expect to continue to the
> destination airport in those conditions, may request ATC authorization
> for a contact approach."
>
Well, a reported ground visibility of at leats one statute mile and a
flight visibility of at least one statute mile are not mutually
exclusive. While ground visibility can be determined quite accurately,
flight visibility is just a guess.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 12:51 PM
Newps wrote:
>
> So you're saying that the controllers are the weather observers there?
> That would put it in a gray area. The book states that weather must be
> available. If you received the clearance before the tower closed that
> would be OK.
>
The book states only that "The reported ground visibility is at least 1
statute mile." The gray area is whether the last hourly observation is
still valid 15 minutes after the weather observer departs. It isn't
yet time for another hourly observation, but he isn't there to issue a
special observation if weather conditions change significantly.
>
> Flight viz is irrelavant. The determining factor is reported ground viz.
>
The book (FAAO 7110.65) also states, "When executing a contact
approach, the pilot is responsible for maintaining the required flight
visibility, cloud clearance, and terrain/obstruction clearance." It
doesn't provide a hint where the requirement for flight visibility can
be found, however. The AIM states in paragraph 5-4-24 that pilots must
have at least one mile flight visibility, but it also states the
following in Flight Information Publication Policy:
"This publication, while not regulatory, provides information which
reflects examples of operating techniques and procedures which may be
requirements in other federal publications or regulations. It is made
available solely to assist pilots in executing their responsibilities
required by other publications."
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 12:57 PM
Dan wrote:
>
> Since a contact approach requires the airport to have an IFR approach,
> I fail to see the advantage of a contact approach. If visibility is at
> 1 mile, I think I would rather just fly the approach than pick around
> for the airport in those conditions - too risky. Where is the
> advantage? Following other traffic visually?
>
Suppose you're abeam the runway while being vectored for an IFR
approach when you sight the field. The current weather observation is
below VFR minimums so a visual approach is not available. Would a
contact approach present an advantage in that situation?
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 01:02 PM
Jim Macklin wrote:
>
> In any case, the pilot doing a contact approach must
> maintain a flight visibility of 1 sm while the controller
> can't issue the clearance unless the visibility is reported
> as 1 sm. At airports without official weather reporting,
> the pilot can report to ATC that visibility is such and such
> and he can maintain VMC and request a contact approach, the
> pilot become the weather observer.
>
Negative. Issuance of clearance for a contact approach requires a
reported ground visibility is at least 1 statute mile. At airports
without official weather reporting a contact approach is not available.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 01:03 PM
wrote:
>
> Can you really do that? A pilot's guess of ground visibility from
> aloft is good enough for the FAA?
>
No and no.
Jim Macklin
December 14th 06, 01:14 PM
Gee, there sure are a lot of contact approaches made to
airports.
Section 5. Pilot/Controller Roles
and Responsibilities
5-5-1. General
a. The roles and responsibilities of the pilot and
controller for effective participation in the ATC system are
contained in several documents. Pilot responsibilities are
in the CFRs and the air traffic controllers' are in the FAA
Order 7110.65, Air Traffic Control, and supplemental FAA
directives. Additional and supplemental information for
pilots can be found in the current Aeronautical Information
Manual (AIM), Notices to Airmen, Advisory Circulars and
aeronautical charts. Since there are many other excellent
publications produced by nongovernment organizations, as
well as other government organizations, with various
updating cycles, questions concerning the latest or most
current material can be resolved by cross-checking with the
above mentioned documents.
b. The pilot-in-command of an aircraft is directly
responsible for, and is the final authority as to the safe
operation of that aircraft. In an emergency requiring
immediate action, the pilot-in-command may deviate from any
rule in the General Subpart A and Flight Rules Subpart B in
accordance with 14 CFR Section 91.3.
c. The air traffic controller is responsible to give
first priority to the separation of aircraft and to the
issuance of radar safety alerts, second priority to other
services that are required, but do not involve separation of
aircraft and third priority to additional services to the
extent possible.
d. In order to maintain a safe and efficient air
traffic system, it is necessary that each party fulfill
their responsibilities to the fullest.
e. The responsibilities of the pilot and the
controller intentionally overlap in many areas providing a
degree of redundancy. Should one or the other fail in any
manner, this overlapping responsibility is expected to
compensate, in many cases, for failures that may affect
safety.
f. The following, while not intended to be all
inclusive, is a brief listing of pilot and controller
responsibilities for some commonly used procedures or phases
of flight. More detailed explanations are contained in other
portions of this publication, the appropriate CFRs, ACs and
similar publications. The information provided is an
overview of the principles involved and is not meant as an
interpretation of the rules nor is it intended to extend or
diminish responsibilities.
5-5-2. Air Traffic Clearance
a. Pilot.
1. Acknowledges receipt and understanding of an ATC
clearance.
2. Reads back any hold short of runway instructions
issued by ATC.
3. Requests clarification or amendment, as
appropriate, any time a clearance is not fully understood or
considered unacceptable from a safety standpoint.
4. Promptly complies with an air traffic clearance
upon receipt except as necessary to cope with an emergency.
Advises ATC as soon as possible and obtains an amended
clearance, if deviation is necessary.
NOTE-
A clearance to land means that appropriate separation
on the landing runway will be ensured. A landing clearance
does not relieve the pilot from compliance with any
previously issued altitude crossing restriction.
b. Controller.
1. Issues appropriate clearances for the operation to
be conducted, or being conducted, in accordance with
established criteria.
2. Assigns altitudes in IFR clearances that are at or
above the minimum IFR altitudes in controlled airspace.
3. Ensures acknowledgement by the pilot for issued
information, clearances, or instructions.
4. Ensures that readbacks by the pilot of altitude,
heading, or other items are correct. If incorrect,
distorted, or incomplete, makes corrections as appropriate.
5-5-3. Contact Approach
a. Pilot.
1. Must request a contact approach and makes it in
lieu of a standard or special instrument approach.
2. By requesting the contact approach, indicates that
the flight is operating clear of clouds, has at least one
mile flight visibility, and reasonably expects to continue
to the destination airport in those conditions.
3. Assumes responsibility for obstruction clearance
while conducting a contact approach.
4. Advises ATC immediately if unable to continue the
contact approach or if encounters less than 1 mile flight
visibility.
5. Is aware that if radar service is being received,
it may be automatically terminated when told to contact the
tower.
REFERENCE-
Pilot/Controller Glossary Term- Radar Service
Terminated.
b. Controller.
1. Issues clearance for a contact approach only when
requested by the pilot. Does not solicit the use of this
procedure.
2. Before issuing the clearance, ascertains that
reported ground visibility at destination airport is at
least 1 mile.
3. Provides approved separation between the aircraft
cleared for a contact approach and other IFR or special VFR
aircraft. When using vertical separation, does not assign a
fixed altitude, but clears the aircraft at or below an
altitude which is at least 1,000 feet below any IFR traffic
but not below Minimum Safe Altitudes prescribed in 14 CFR
Section 91.119.
4. Issues alternative instructions if, in their
judgment, weather conditions may make completion of the
approach impracticable.
5-5-4. Instrument Approach
a. Pilot.
1. Be aware that the controller issues clearance for
approach based only on known traffic.
2. Follows the procedure as shown on the IAP,
including all restrictive notations, such as:
(a) Procedure not authorized at night;
(b) Approach not authorized when local area altimeter
not available;
(c) Procedure not authorized when control tower not in
operation;
(d) Procedure not authorized when glide slope not
used;
(e) Straight-in minimums not authorized at night; etc.
(f) Radar required; or
(g) The circling minimums published on the instrument
approach chart provide adequate obstruction clearance and
pilots should not descend below the circling altitude until
the aircraft is in a position to make final descent for
landing. Sound judgment and knowledge of the pilot's and the
aircraft's capabilities are the criteria for determining the
exact maneuver in each instance since airport design and the
aircraft position, altitude and airspeed must all be
considered.
REFERENCE-
AIM, Approach and Landing Minimums, Paragraph 5-4-20.
3. Upon receipt of an approach clearance while on an
unpublished route or being radar vectored:
(a) Complies with the minimum altitude for IFR; and
(b) Maintains the last assigned altitude until
established on a segment of a published route or IAP, at
which time published altitudes apply.
b. Controller.
1. Issues an approach clearance based on known
traffic.
2. Issues an IFR approach clearance only after the
aircraft is established on a segment of published route or
IAP, or assigns an appropriate altitude for the aircraft to
maintain until so established.
5-5-5. Missed Approach
a. Pilot.
1. Executes a missed approach when one of the
following conditions exist:
(a) Arrival at the Missed Approach Point (MAP) or the
Decision Height (DH) and visual reference to the runway
environment is insufficient to complete the landing.
(b) Determines that a safe approach or landing is not
possible (see subparagraph 5-4-21g).
(c) Instructed to do so by ATC.
2. Advises ATC that a missed approach will be made.
Include the reason for the missed approach unless the missed
approach is initiated by ATC.
3. Complies with the missed approach instructions for
the IAP being executed from the MAP, unless other missed
approach instructions are specified by ATC.
4. If executing a missed approach prior to reaching
the MAP, fly the lateral navigation path of the instrument
procedure to the MAP. Climb to the altitude specified in the
missed approach procedure, except when a maximum altitude is
specified between the final approach fix (FAF) and the MAP.
In that case, comply with the maximum altitude restriction.
Note, this may require a continued descent on the final
approach.
5. Following a missed approach, requests clearance for
specific action; i.e., another approach, hold for improved
conditions, proceed to an alternate airport, etc.
b. Controller.
1. Issues an approved alternate missed approach
procedure if it is desired that the pilot execute a
procedure other than as depicted on the instrument approach
chart.
2. May vector a radar identified aircraft executing a
missed approach when operationally advantageous to the pilot
or the controller.
3. In response to the pilot's stated intentions,
issues a clearance to an alternate airport, to a holding
fix, or for reentry into the approach sequence, as traffic
conditions permit.
5-5-6. Radar Vectors
a. Pilot.
1. Promptly complies with headings and altitudes
assigned to you by the controller.
2. Questions any assigned heading or altitude believed
to be incorrect.
3. If operating VFR and compliance with any radar
vector or altitude would cause a violation of any CFR,
advises ATC and obtains a revised clearance or instructions.
b. Controller.
1. Vectors aircraft in Class A, Class B, Class C,
Class D, and Class E airspace:
(a) For separation.
(b) For noise abatement.
(c) To obtain an operational advantage for the pilot
or controller.
2. Vectors aircraft in Class A, Class B, Class C,
Class D, Class E, and Class G airspace when requested by the
pilot.
3. Vectors IFR aircraft at or above minimum vectoring
altitudes.
4. May vector VFR aircraft, not at an ATC assigned
altitude, at any altitude. In these cases, terrain
separation is the pilot's responsibility.
5-5-7. Safety Alert
a. Pilot.
1. Initiates appropriate action if a safety alert is
received from ATC.
2. Be aware that this service is not always available
and that many factors affect the ability of the controller
to be aware of a situation in which unsafe proximity to
terrain, obstructions, or another aircraft may be
developing.
b. Controller.
1. Issues a safety alert if aware an aircraft under
their control is at an altitude which, in the controller's
judgment, places the aircraft in unsafe proximity to
terrain, obstructions or another aircraft. Types of safety
alerts are:
(a) Terrain or Obstruction Alert. Immediately issued
to an aircraft under their control if aware the aircraft is
at an altitude believed to place the aircraft in unsafe
proximity to terrain or obstructions.
(b) Aircraft Conflict Alert. Immediately issued to an
aircraft under their control if aware of an aircraft not
under their control at an altitude believed to place the
aircraft in unsafe proximity to each other. With the alert,
they offer the pilot an alternative, if feasible.
2. Discontinue further alerts if informed by the pilot
action is being taken to correct the situation or that the
other aircraft is in sight.
5-5-8. See and Avoid
a. Pilot. When meteorological conditions permit,
regardless of type of flight plan or whether or not under
control of a radar facility, the pilot is responsible to see
and avoid other traffic, terrain, or obstacles.
b. Controller.
1. Provides radar traffic information to radar
identified aircraft operating outside positive control
airspace on a workload permitting basis.
2. Issues safety alerts to aircraft under their
control if aware the aircraft is at an altitude believed to
place the aircraft in unsafe proximity to terrain,
obstructions, or other aircraft.
5-5-9. Speed Adjustments
a. Pilot.
1. Advises ATC any time cruising airspeed varies plus
or minus 5 percent or 10 knots, whichever is greater, from
that given in the flight plan.
2. Complies with speed adjustments from ATC unless:
(a) The minimum or maximum safe airspeed for any
particular operation is greater or less than the requested
airspeed. In such cases, advises ATC.
NOTE-
It is the pilot's responsibility and prerogative to
refuse speed adjustments considered excessive or contrary to
the aircraft's operating specifications.
(b) Operating at or above 10,000 feet MSL on an ATC
assigned SPEED ADJUSTMENT of more than 250 knots IAS and
subsequent clearance is received for descent below 10,000
feet MSL. In such cases, pilots are expected to comply with
14 CFR Section 91.117(a).
3. When complying with speed adjustment assignments,
maintains an indicated airspeed within plus or minus 10
knots or 0.02 Mach number of the specified speed.
b. Controller.
1. Assigns speed adjustments to aircraft when
necessary but not as a substitute for good vectoring
technique.
2. Adheres to the restrictions published in the FAA
Order 7110.65, Air Traffic Control, as to when speed
adjustment procedures may be applied.
3. Avoids speed adjustments requiring alternate
decreases and increases.
4. Assigns speed adjustments to a specified IAS
(KNOTS)/Mach number or to increase or decrease speed using
increments of 10 knots or multiples thereof.
5. Advises pilots to resume normal speed when speed
adjustments are no longer required.
6. Gives due consideration to aircraft capabilities to
reduce speed while descending.
7. Does not assign speed adjustments to aircraft at or
above FL 390 without pilot consent.
5-5-10. Traffic Advisories (Traffic Information)
a. Pilot.
1. Acknowledges receipt of traffic advisories.
2. Informs controller if traffic in sight.
3. Advises ATC if a vector to avoid traffic is
desired.
4. Does not expect to receive radar traffic advisories
on all traffic. Some aircraft may not appear on the radar
display. Be aware that the controller may be occupied with
higher priority duties and unable to issue traffic
information for a variety of reasons.
5. Advises controller if service is not desired.
b. Controller.
1. Issues radar traffic to the maximum extent
consistent with higher priority duties except in Class A
airspace.
2. Provides vectors to assist aircraft to avoid
observed traffic when requested by the pilot.
3. Issues traffic information to aircraft in the Class
B, Class C, and Class D surface areas for sequencing
purposes.
5-5-11. Visual Approach
a. Pilot.
1. If a visual approach is not desired, advises ATC.
2. Complies with controller's instructions for vectors
toward the airport of intended landing or to a visual
position behind a preceding aircraft.
3. The pilot must, at all times, have either the
airport or the preceding aircraft in sight. After being
cleared for a visual approach, proceed to the airport in a
normal manner or follow the preceding aircraft. Remain clear
of clouds while conducting a visual approach.
4. If the pilot accepts a visual approach clearance to
visually follow a preceding aircraft, you are required to
establish a safe landing interval behind the aircraft you
were instructed to follow. You are responsible for wake
turbulence separation.
5. Advise ATC immediately if the pilot is unable to
continue following the preceding aircraft, cannot remain
clear of clouds, or lose sight of the airport.
6. Be aware that radar service is automatically
terminated, without being advised by ATC, when the pilot is
instructed to change to advisory frequency.
7. Be aware that there may be other traffic in the
traffic pattern and the landing sequence may differ from the
traffic sequence assigned by approach control or ARTCC.
b. Controller.
1. Do not clear an aircraft for a visual approach
unless reported weather at the airport is ceiling at or
above 1,000 feet and visibility is 3 miles or greater. When
weather is not available for the destination airport, inform
the pilot and do not initiate a visual approach to that
airport unless there is reasonable assurance that descent
and flight to the airport can be made visually.
2. Issue visual approach clearance when the pilot
reports sighting either the airport or a preceding aircraft
which is to be followed.
3. Provide separation except when visual separation is
being applied by the pilot.
4. Continue flight following and traffic information
until the aircraft has landed or has been instructed to
change to advisory frequency.
5. Inform the pilot when the preceding aircraft is a
heavy.
6. When weather is available for the destination
airport, do not initiate a vector for a visual approach
unless the reported ceiling at the airport is 500 feet or
more above the MVA and visibility is 3 miles or more. If
vectoring weather minima are not available but weather at
the airport is ceiling at or above 1,000 feet and visibility
of 3 miles or greater, visual approaches may still be
conducted.
7. Informs the pilot conducting the visual approach of
the aircraft class when pertinent traffic is known to be a
heavy aircraft.
5-5-12. Visual Separation
a. Pilot.
1. Acceptance of instructions to follow another
aircraft or to provide visual separation from it is an
acknowledgment that the pilot will maneuver the aircraft as
necessary to avoid the other aircraft or to maintain
in-trail separation. Pilots are responsible to maintain
visual separation until flight paths (altitudes and/or
courses) diverge.
2. If instructed by ATC to follow another aircraft or
to provide visual separation from it, promptly notify the
controller if you lose sight of that aircraft, are unable to
maintain continued visual contact with it, or cannot accept
the responsibility for your own separation for any reason.
3. The pilot also accepts responsibility for wake
turbulence separation under these conditions.
b. Controller. Applies visual separation only:
1. Within the terminal area when a controller has both
aircraft in sight or by instructing a pilot who sees the
other aircraft to maintain visual separation from it.
2. Pilots are responsible to maintain visual
separation until flight paths (altitudes and/or courses)
diverge.
3. Within en route airspace when aircraft are on
opposite courses and one pilot reports having seen the other
aircraft and that the aircraft have passed each other.
5-5-13. VFR-on-top
a. Pilot.
1. This clearance must be requested by the pilot on an
IFR flight plan, and if approved, allows the pilot the
choice (subject to any ATC restrictions) to select an
altitude or flight level in lieu of an assigned altitude.
NOTE-
VFR-on-top is not permitted in certain airspace areas,
such as Class A airspace, certain restricted areas, etc.
Consequently, IFR flights operating VFR-on-top will avoid
such airspace.
REFERENCE-
AIM, IFR Clearance VFR-on-top, Paragraph 4-4-7.
AIM, IFR Separation Standards, Paragraph 4-4-10.
AIM, Position Reporting, Paragraph 5-3-2.
AIM, Additional Reports, Paragraph 5-3-3.
2. By requesting a VFR-on-top clearance, the pilot
assumes the sole responsibility to be vigilant so as to see
and avoid other aircraft and to:
(a) Fly at the appropriate VFR altitude as prescribed
in 14 CFR Section 91.159.
(b) Comply with the VFR visibility and distance from
clouds criteria in 14 CFR Section 91.155, Basic VFR weather
minimums.
(c) Comply with instrument flight rules that are
applicable to this flight; i.e., minimum IFR altitudes,
position reporting, radio communications, course to be
flown, adherence to ATC clearance, etc.
3. Should advise ATC prior to any altitude change to
ensure the exchange of accurate traffic information.
b. Controller.
1. May clear an aircraft to maintain VFR-on-top if the
pilot of an aircraft on an IFR flight plan requests the
clearance.
2. Informs the pilot of an aircraft cleared to climb
to VFR-on-top the reported height of the tops or that no top
report is available; issues an alternate clearance if
necessary; and once the aircraft reports reaching
VFR-on-top, reclears the aircraft to maintain VFR-on-top.
3. Before issuing clearance, ascertain that the
aircraft is not in or will not enter Class A airspace.
5-5-14. Instrument Departures
a. Pilot.
1. Prior to departure considers the type of terrain
and other obstructions on or in the vicinity of the
departure airport.
2. Determines if obstruction avoidance can be
maintained visually or that the departure procedure should
be followed.
3. Determines whether a departure procedure and/or DP
is available for obstruction avoidance.
4. At airports where IAPs have not been published,
hence no published departure procedure, determines what
action will be necessary and takes such action that will
assure a safe departure.
b. Controller.
1. At locations with airport traffic control service,
when necessary, specifies direction of takeoff, turn, or
initial heading to be flown after takeoff.
2. At locations without airport traffic control
service but within Class E surface area when necessary to
specify direction of takeoff, turn, or initial heading to be
flown, obtains pilot's concurrence that the procedure will
allow the pilot to comply with local traffic patterns,
terrain, and obstruction avoidance.
3. Includes established departure procedures as part
of the ATC clearance when pilot compliance is necessary to
ensure separation.
5-5-15. Minimum Fuel Advisory
a. Pilot.
1. Advise ATC of your minimum fuel status when your
fuel supply has reached a state where, upon reaching
destination, you cannot accept any undue delay.
2. Be aware this is not an emergency situation, but
merely an advisory that indicates an emergency situation is
possible should any undue delay occur.
3. On initial contact the term "minimum fuel" should
be used after stating call sign.
EXAMPLE-
Salt Lake Approach, United 621, "minimum fuel."
4. Be aware a minimum fuel advisory does not imply a
need for traffic priority.
5. If the remaining usable fuel supply suggests the
need for traffic priority to ensure a safe landing, you
should declare an emergency due to low fuel and report fuel
remaining in minutes.
REFERENCE-
Pilot/Controller Glossary Item- Fuel Remaining.
b. Controller.
1. When an aircraft declares a state of minimum fuel,
relay this information to the facility to whom control
jurisdiction is transferred.
2. Be alert for any occurrence which might delay the
aircraft.
5-5-16. RNAV and RNP Operations
a. Pilot.
1. If unable to comply with the requirements of an
RNAV or RNP procedure, pilots shall advise air traffic
control as soon as possible. For example, ". . . N1234,
failure of GPS system, unable RNAV, request amended
clearance."
2. Pilots are not authorized to fly a published RNAV
or RNP procedure unless it is retrievable by the procedure
name from the aircraft navigation database and conforms to
the charted procedure.
3. Pilots shall not change any database waypoint type
from a fly-by to fly-over, or vice versa. No other
modification of database waypoints or the creation of
user-defined waypoints on published RNAV or RNP procedures
is permitted, except to:
(a) Change altitude and/or airspeed waypoint
constraints to comply with an ATC clearance/instruction.
(b) Insert a waypoint along the published route to
assist in complying with ATC instruction, example, "Descend
via the WILMS arrival except cross 30 north of BRUCE at/or
below FL 210." This is limited only to systems that allow
along-track waypoint construction.
4. Pilots of aircraft utilizing DME/DME for primary
radio updating shall ensure any published required DME
stations are in service as determined by NOTAM, ATIS, or ATC
advisory. No pilot monitoring of FMS navigation source(s) is
required.
5. Pilots of FMS-equipped aircraft, who are assigned
an RNAV DP or STAR procedure and subsequently receive a
change of runway, transition or procedure, shall verify that
the appropriate changes are loaded and available for
navigation.
6. While operating on RNAV segments, pilots are
encouraged to use flight director, in lateral navigation
mode.
7. For Type B RNAV DPs and STARs, pilots must use a
CDI/flight director and/or autopilot, in lateral navigation
mode. For Type A RNAV DPs and STARs, these procedures are
recommended. Other methods providing an equivalent level of
performance may also be acceptable.
8. For Type B RNAV DPs and STARs, pilots of aircraft
without GPS, using DME/DME/IRU, must ensure the aircraft
navigation system position is confirmed, within 1,000 feet,
at the start point of take-off roll. The use of an automatic
or manual runway update is an acceptable means of compliance
with this requirement. Other methods providing an equivalent
level of performance may also be acceptable.
9. RNAV terminal procedures may be amended by ATC
issuing radar vectors and/or clearances direct to a
waypoint. Pilots should avoid premature manual deletion of
waypoints from their active "legs" page to allow for
rejoining procedures.
10. While operating on RNAV segments, pilots operating
/R aircraft shall adhere to any flight manual limitation or
operating procedure required to maintain the RNP value
specified for the procedure.
> wrote in message
ups.com...
|I didn't ask about flight visibility. The rules clearly
state that ATC
| can only authorize a contact approach if GROUND visibility
is reported
| to be at least one statute mile.
|
| So, let me ask again. Can you report GROUND visibility
from thousands
| of feet above the airport? How about if you're still 10
miles out?
| And, further, is that report something a pilot can do
anyway, or does
| it have to be an official weather report?
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > The OUT is that you are in the system and can resume
IFR.
| > S&R is a function of a flight plan. Commercial flights
are
| > required to be "on a flight plan" and canceling IFR even
for
| > the last few minutes of a charter flight puts you in
| > violation.
| >
| >
| > Flight visibility is solely judged by the pilot on an
IFR
| > approach, once the first step is passed. ATC will clear
any
| > airplane to make any approach the pilot requests. The
pilot
| > is not supposed to request or begin an approach if the
| > weather is below visibility minimums. But any pilot,
Part
| > 91,121, 125, or 135 is the only person who can judge
flight
| > visibility and that is the controlling visibility on an
IFR
| > approach.
| >
| > How do you judge visibility? Standard approach lights
are
| > of a certain size as are the runway lights. You learn
how
| > to judge, 91.175 (c)(2) The flight visibility is not
less
| > than the visibility prescribed in the standard
instrument
| > approach being used; and
| > 1.1
| > Flight visibility means the average forward horizontal
| > distance, from the cockpit of an aircraft in flight, at
| > which prominent unlighted objects may be seen and
identified
| > by day and prominent lighted objects may be seen and
| > identified by night.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > > wrote in message
| >
oups.com...
| > |
| > | Jim Macklin wrote:
| > |
| > | > At airports without official weather reporting,
| > | > the pilot can report to ATC that visibility is such
and
| > such
| > | > and he can maintain VMC and request a contact
approach,
| > the
| > | > pilot become the weather observer.
| > |
| > | Can you really do that? A pilot's guess of ground
| > visibility from
| > | aloft is good enough for the FAA?
| > |
| > | > The advantage is that
| > | > the IFR clearance is still in the system and the
pilot
| > has
| > | > the "out." It keeps an active flight plan, which is
| > nice er
| > | > than canceling IFR and then nobody will look for
you.
| > |
| > | I wouldn't consider search-and-rescue an "out." The
only
| > thing I can
| > | think of is that staying IFR keeps other IFR traffic
out
| > of your hair.
| > | Is there another advantage?
| > |
|
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 01:14 PM
karl gruber wrote:
>
> One advantage (without looking at the regs so beat me up) is if you are VFR
> and want to make a low weather scud run into an airport where "special VFR"
> is NOT available.
>
> Just ask the tower for a "Contact approach" instead.
>
Hmmmmm.......... What do you mean by airports where SVFR is not
available? SVFR is generally not available at airports in Class B
airspace and some of the busier Class C airspace areas. But at those
airports you're unlikely to even get a popup IFR clearance. SVFR is
also not available at airports outside of a surface area, but neither
is a contact approach. Surface areas and contact approaches both
require weather observations.
Think about the minimums for a contact approach, SVFR, and VFR
operations at an airport in Class G airspace for a moment.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 01:17 PM
Jim Macklin wrote:
>
> Flight visibility is solely judged by the pilot on an IFR
> approach, once the first step is passed. ATC will clear any
> airplane to make any approach the pilot requests. The pilot
> is not supposed to request or begin an approach if the
> weather is below visibility minimums. But any pilot, Part
> 91,121, 125, or 135 is the only person who can judge flight
> visibility and that is the controlling visibility on an IFR
> approach.
>
You can't get a contact approach without a reported ground visibility
of at least one statute mile.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 01:19 PM
wrote:
>
> I didn't ask about flight visibility. The rules clearly state that ATC
> can only authorize a contact approach if GROUND visibility is reported
> to be at least one statute mile.
>
> So, let me ask again. Can you report GROUND visibility from thousands
> of feet above the airport?
>
No.
>
> How about if you're still 10 miles out?
>
No.
>
> And, further, is that report something a pilot can do anyway, or does
> it have to be an official weather report?
>
It has to be an official weather report.
Ron Natalie
December 14th 06, 01:27 PM
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> SVFR is
> also not available at airports outside of a surface area, but neither
> is a contact approach. Surface areas and contact approaches both
> require weather observations.
A surface area isn't necessary for a contact approach.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 01:48 PM
Ron Natalie wrote:
>
> A surface area isn't necessary for a contact approach.
>
I didn't say it was.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 01:51 PM
Jim Macklin wrote:
>
> Gee, there sure are a lot of contact approaches made to
> airports.
>
It would do you well to actually read what you copy and paste.
Ron Natalie
December 14th 06, 02:02 PM
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>> A surface area isn't necessary for a contact approach.
>>
>
> I didn't say it was.
>
You said:
SVFR is also not available at airports outside of a surface area, but
neither is a contact approach.
The "but neither is a contact approach" seems to imply that.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 02:05 PM
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>
> I didn't say it was.
>
Upon further review, I did misspeak. I wrote, "SVFR is also not
available at airports outside of a surface area, but neither is a
contact approach. Surface areas and contact approaches both require
weather observations." If you're approaching an airport where SVFR is
not available it's probably because it's outside of a surface area. I
see no advantage then in picking up an IFR clearance in order to
request a contact approach as the minimums for a contact approach are
the same as VFR in Class G airspace.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 02:07 PM
Ron Natalie wrote:
>
> You said:
>
> SVFR is also not available at airports outside of a surface area, but
> neither is a contact approach.
>
> The "but neither is a contact approach" seems to imply that.
>
You're right. I was apparently writing my followup as you were writing
what's above.
Dan[_1_]
December 14th 06, 03:31 PM
Good point... Most of the approaches I fly do not involve vectoring
close to the airport before going back out and coming in again, so I
did not think of this.
--Dan
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> Dan wrote:
> >
> > Since a contact approach requires the airport to have an IFR approach,
> > I fail to see the advantage of a contact approach. If visibility is at
> > 1 mile, I think I would rather just fly the approach than pick around
> > for the airport in those conditions - too risky. Where is the
> > advantage? Following other traffic visually?
> >
>
> Suppose you're abeam the runway while being vectored for an IFR
> approach when you sight the field. The current weather observation is
> below VFR minimums so a visual approach is not available. Would a
> contact approach present an advantage in that situation?
December 14th 06, 04:04 PM
Jim Macklin wrote:
> A visual approach may be instigated by the controller if the
> weather is good VFR.
What is good VFR?
Just VFR?
I thought MVFR or better was required for PIC request?
Is that the requirement for ATC to assign? That is to say they won't
assign in MVFR?
Thanks,
ak.
Newps
December 14th 06, 04:23 PM
wrote:
> Newps wrote:
>
>>So you're saying that the controllers are the weather observers there?
>>That would put it in a gray area. The book states that weather must be
>>available. If you received the clearance before the tower closed that
>>would be OK.
>
>
> Yes the controllers are the weather observers. Why does that make it a
> gray area?
It's gray because of the weather reporting requirement. At some point
the last weather becomes too old. I'm not sure if that automatically
happens at the time the next sequence is supposed to come out.
Or the controller wasn't fresh on contact approaches, since
> I think its used relatively rarely around here.
Depends on the weather that normally happens around there. I've been
here at BIL for 14 years. Until last Wednesday night I had given maybe
three contact approach clearances. Last Wednesday night/Thursday
morning on the mid, about 4:00 am I gave two to two aircraft in a row,
about 8 miles apart. Probably won't give another one before I retire.
By the way, this is a
> small satellite airport under Class B and C airspace, if that makes a
> difference.
Nope.
Newps
December 14th 06, 04:25 PM
Dan wrote:
> Since a contact approach requires the airport to have an IFR approach,
> I fail to see the advantage of a contact approach.
You're being vectored for the ILS and are on a long downwind. You see
the airport due to the fact that only the ASOS is in the clouds, or only
a portion of the airport is in the clouds, the portion with the ASOS.
Newps
December 14th 06, 04:30 PM
Jim Macklin wrote:
>
> On a contact approach you do not follow anybody, you are the
> only airplane and you navigate to the airport directly.
You got one out of three correct here and the navigation part depends on
the clouds.
>
> A visual approach may be instigated by the controller if the
> weather is good VFR.
Just VFR is all the controller needs.
At airports without official weather reporting,
> the pilot can report to ATC that visibility is such and such
> and he can maintain VMC and request a contact approach, the
> pilot become the weather observer.
No, must have weather reporting on the ground. From the .65: 7-4-6
b. The reported ground visibility is at least 1 statute mile.
They make no exception for flight viz.
Newps
December 14th 06, 04:32 PM
karl gruber wrote:
> One advantage (without looking at the regs so beat me up) is if you are VFR
> and want to make a low weather scud run into an airport where "special VFR"
> is NOT available.
>
> Just ask the tower for a "Contact approach" instead.
Well that could get involved. You'll have to request and get an IFR
clearance. You'll then have to climb to the MVA to make that clearance
effective. That may or may not allow you to finish your scud run. I
doubt if it will.
Newps
December 14th 06, 04:36 PM
Jim Macklin wrote:
> Commercial flights are
> required to be "on a flight plan" and canceling IFR even for
> the last few minutes of a charter flight puts you in
> violation.
Rubbish. Many commercial flights go VFR. What matters is how their ops
specs are written. Some allow VFR, some don't.
>
>
> Flight visibility is solely judged by the pilot on an IFR
> approach, once the first step is passed.
And the first step on a contact approach is reported ground viz of a mile.
ATC will clear any
> airplane to make any approach the pilot requests.
Uh, maybe. What's the traffic picture? Go into ORD and request a VOR
approach with a procedure turn and see where that gets you.
The pilot
> is not supposed to request or begin an approach if the
> weather is below visibility minimums. But any pilot, Part
> 91,121, 125, or 135 is the only person who can judge flight
> visibility and that is the controlling visibility on an IFR
> approach.
Wrong. 121 and 135 pilots are not allowed to even start the approach
when the reported ground viz is below the airlines minimums. Flight viz
isn't even a question that's asked.
Newps
December 14th 06, 04:44 PM
wrote:
> Jim Macklin wrote:
>
>>A visual approach may be instigated by the controller if the
>>weather is good VFR.
>
>
> What is good VFR?
>
> Just VFR?
>
> I thought MVFR or better was required for PIC request?
>
> Is that the requirement for ATC to assign? That is to say they won't
> assign in MVFR?
The weather must be VFR. Most of the time that means 1000/3 for the
approach controller. In order for the ATIS to state the visual
approaches are being conducted the ceiling must be 500 feet above the
MVA at the airport. Here at BIL that means the ceiling must be 2300 or
greater. If it is less than that and you are coming from the downwind
side of the airport we will vector you in close and drop you to the MVA
of 5300. If you report the airport we'll give you the visual, if not
you'll stay at 5300 if the approach will be to the west or you'll climb
to 5700 if the approach will be to the east.
karl gruber[_1_]
December 14th 06, 04:52 PM
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>>
.. I
> see no advantage then in picking up an IFR clearance in order to
> request a contact approach as the minimums for a contact approach are
> the same as VFR in Class G airspace.
>
I don't think I'd try to get a clearance from Approach Control. I'd deal
diectly with tower. I "think" I've done this...at Portland. It was handled
just like a special VFR, only it was a contact approach. It was on a scud
run down I-5 from Seattle. I know, this is an IFR clearance, but you make it
sound dificult when all it is is a tower call. PDX tower, Piper 7777Z, 5NW,
request contact approach.
Bam!...........in there.
Karl
"Curator"
Karl
"Curator"
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 05:00 PM
karl gruber wrote:
>
> I don't think I'd try to get a clearance from Approach Control. I'd deal
> diectly with tower. I "think" I've done this...at Portland. It was handled
> just like a special VFR, only it was a contact approach. It was on a scud
> run down I-5 from Seattle. I know, this is an IFR clearance, but you make it
> sound dificult when all it is is a tower call. PDX tower, Piper 7777Z, 5NW,
> request contact approach.
>
> Bam!...........in there.
>
It's not a tower call, it's up to whatever facility is responsible for
approach control functions.
Stan Prevost
December 14th 06, 05:02 PM
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Surface areas and contact approaches both
> require weather observations.
>
Does that include automated weather observations?
karl gruber[_1_]
December 14th 06, 05:07 PM
"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>>
> Well that could get involved. You'll have to request and get an IFR
> clearance. You'll then have to climb to the MVA to make that clearance
> effective. That may or may not allow you to finish your scud run. I
> doubt if it will.
>
No. You can just get one from tower, JUST lke special VFR.
Karl
karl gruber[_1_]
December 14th 06, 05:11 PM
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> karl gruber wrote:
>>
>> I don't think I'd try to get a clearance from Approach Control. I'd deal
>> diectly with tower. I "think" I've done this...at Portland. It was
>> handled
>> just like a special VFR, only it was a contact approach. It was on a scud
>> run down I-5 from Seattle. I know, this is an IFR clearance, but you make
>> it
>> sound dificult when all it is is a tower call. PDX tower, Piper 7777Z,
>> 5NW,
>> request contact approach.
>>
>> Bam!...........in there.
>>
>
> It's not a tower call, it's up to whatever facility is responsible for
> approach control functions.
Nope, it can be a tower call. I've done it.
Karl
"Curator"
Jose[_1_]
December 14th 06, 05:18 PM
> The pilot
> is not supposed to request or begin an approach if the
> weather is below visibility minimums.
Actually, that's 135 only, no? Part 91 pilots may begin an approach
irrespective of the weather.
Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
Newps
December 14th 06, 06:25 PM
karl gruber wrote:
>
> I don't think I'd try to get a clearance from Approach Control. I'd deal
> diectly with tower. I "think" I've done this...at Portland. It was handled
> just like a special VFR, only it was a contact approach. It was on a scud
> run down I-5 from Seattle. I know, this is an IFR clearance, but you make it
> sound dificult when all it is is a tower call. PDX tower, Piper 7777Z, 5NW,
> request contact approach.
>
> Bam!...........in there.
A class C tower could easily do that. Call up about 6 miles out and if
there's no traffic I can issue you a clearance as the tower controllers
at class C's are approach controllers. However you still have to meet
the normal constraints of an IFR clearance.
Newps
December 14th 06, 06:26 PM
karl gruber wrote:
>>
>
>
> No. You can just get one from tower, JUST lke special VFR.
>
I understand that but you still have to meet the IFR clearance
requirement of an IFR clearance, notably terrain.
Newps
December 14th 06, 06:27 PM
Jose wrote:
>> The pilot is not supposed to request or begin an approach if the
>> weather is below visibility minimums.
>
>
> Actually, that's 135 only, no? Part 91 pilots may begin an approach
> irrespective of the weather.
Right, they are just not allowed to land if the viz requirements aren't
met. Routinely disregarded.
karl gruber[_1_]
December 14th 06, 06:32 PM
"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
> I understand that but you still have to meet the IFR clearance requirement
> of an IFR clearance, notably terrain.
In general, I like to avoid the terrain..............except landing!
Karl
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 06:34 PM
karl gruber wrote:
>
> Nope, it can be a tower call. I've done it.
>
Only if approach control functions are being provided from the tower.
Things are not always what they seem.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 06:34 PM
karl gruber wrote:
>
> Nope, it can be a tower call. I've done it.
>
Only if approach control functions are being provided from the tower.
Things are not always what they seem.
Jim Macklin
December 14th 06, 06:35 PM
Once past the FAF, the pilot becomes the sole authority on
the landing since only the pilot can determine flight
visibility. An aircraft using an N number can be issued an
approach clearance right down to zero-zero. A Tango
November or airline call sign will prompt a denial or query
about the legal status of the flight.
"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
|
|
| Jose wrote:
|
| >> The pilot is not supposed to request or begin an
approach if the
| >> weather is below visibility minimums.
| >
| >
| > Actually, that's 135 only, no? Part 91 pilots may begin
an approach
| > irrespective of the weather.
|
| Right, they are just not allowed to land if the viz
requirements aren't
| met. Routinely disregarded.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 06:36 PM
Stan Prevost wrote:
>
> Does that include automated weather observations?
>
Yes.
Jose[_1_]
December 14th 06, 06:36 PM
> Right, they are just not allowed to land if the viz requirements aren't met. Routinely disregarded.
Yes, but for 91, it's flight visibility. The pilot can evaluate that.
Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 14th 06, 06:37 PM
karl gruber wrote:
>
> No. You can just get one from tower, JUST lke special VFR.
>
So all towers can issue SVFR and contact approach clearances?
Newps
December 14th 06, 06:44 PM
Jose wrote:
>> Right, they are just not allowed to land if the viz requirements
>> aren't met. Routinely disregarded.
>
>
> Yes, but for 91, it's flight visibility. The pilot can evaluate that.
Exactly, routinely disregarded.
Newps
December 14th 06, 06:52 PM
Jim Macklin wrote:
> Once past the FAF, the pilot becomes the sole authority on
> the landing since only the pilot can determine flight
> visibility. An aircraft using an N number can be issued an
> approach clearance right down to zero-zero. A Tango
> November or airline call sign will prompt a denial or query
> about the legal status of the flight.
No, it won't. If you want an approach clearance you will get one. The
legality is not ATC's problem.
December 14th 06, 09:31 PM
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> wrote:
> >
> > So did approach control screw up? I'm sure they had the last ATIS
> > report some 70 to 80 minutes old at the time of my request, and the
> > weather was good in that report.
> >
>
> If the tower had closed just fifteen minutes earlier approach may have
> had a weather observation less than 30 minutes old.
Well, the tower doesn't issue a new ATIS (on the recording) just before
they leave, but I suppose they probably do make a weather report that
goes to FSS. I'm not sure if that ends up at the ARTCC or not. But
they are not there to issue a special observation after they leave,
which is when the fog rolled in.
So I'd guess that for this clearance to have been "proper" the weather
observers would have to still be there and ready to issue a special
regardless of how old the last scheduled observation was. But, from
the discussion so far, it appears that such a requirement is not
actually spelled out in the regs.
>
> >
> > Interestingly, both the AIM and the 7110.65 say that a requirement for
> > ATC authorization of a contact approach is that "The reported ground
> > visibility is at least 1 statute mile."
> >
> > But the AIM starts out by saying: "Pilots operating in accordance with
> > an IFR flight plan, provided they are clear of clouds and have at least
> > 1 mile flight visibility and can reasonably expect to continue to the
> > destination airport in those conditions, may request ATC authorization
> > for a contact approach."
> >
>
> Well, a reported ground visibility of at leats one statute mile and a
> flight visibility of at least one statute mile are not mutually
> exclusive. While ground visibility can be determined quite accurately,
> flight visibility is just a guess.
Yes, but I found it interesting that the AIM specifically says that a
pilot may request a contact approach (flight viz > 1) in conditions
when the controller may not approve it (ground viz < 1). I suppose
that wording is left over from the days when the controller had more
access to weather observations than the pilot?
December 14th 06, 09:38 PM
Newps wrote:
> A class C tower could easily do that. Call up about 6 miles out and if
> there's no traffic I can issue you a clearance as the tower controllers
> at class C's are approach controllers. However you still have to meet
> the normal constraints of an IFR clearance.
That makes sense with a traditional Class C (dedicated approach
control). Is this still the case at facilities like SJC and BUR where
the ARTCC is located in another metropolitan area?
karl gruber[_1_]
December 14th 06, 09:47 PM
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> karl gruber wrote:
>>
>> No. You can just get one from tower, JUST lke special VFR.
>>
>
> So all towers can issue SVFR and contact approach clearances?
>
I believe all towers can issue SVFR, and I know for sure that PDX tower can
issue a contactapproach.
Karl
"Curator"
Newps
December 14th 06, 09:48 PM
wrote:
> Yes, but I found it interesting that the AIM specifically says that a
> pilot may request a contact approach (flight viz > 1) in conditions
> when the controller may not approve it (ground viz < 1). I suppose
> that wording is left over from the days when the controller had more
> access to weather observations than the pilot?
That could also be in there because these new Super AWOS machines do not
normally report the weather. We have an airport in our airspace with
one of these machines and I have no idea what the machine is reporting.
But even though I don't know what it is it is legal weather for the pilot.
BillJ
December 14th 06, 11:40 PM
Dan wrote:
> Since a contact approach requires the airport to have an IFR approach,
> I fail to see the advantage of a contact approach. If visibility is at
> 1 mile, I think I would rather just fly the approach than pick around
> for the airport in those conditions - too risky. Where is the
> advantage? Following other traffic visually?
>
> --Dan
>
>
> wrote:
>
>>Newps wrote:
>>
>>>So you're saying that the controllers are the weather observers there?
>>>That would put it in a gray area. The book states that weather must be
>>>available. If you received the clearance before the tower closed that
>>>would be OK.
>>
>>Yes the controllers are the weather observers. Why does that make it a
>>gray area?
>>
>>I'm pretty sure the clearance came after the tower closed. I've also
>>noticed that the approach controllers occasionally loose track of time
>>and they don't always realize the tower has closed. Maybe that's what
>>happened. Or the controller wasn't fresh on contact approaches, since
>>I think its used relatively rarely around here. By the way, this is a
>>small satellite airport under Class B and C airspace, if that makes a
>>difference.
>
>
Thunderstorm over the FAF
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 15th 06, 12:01 AM
karl gruber wrote:
>
> I believe all towers can issue SVFR,
>
All towers cannot issue SVFR.
>
> and I know for sure that PDX tower can
> issue a contactapproach.
>
How can you tell if a tower is issuing a clearance for an IFR operation
or if it is relaying the clearance received from whatever facility has
responsibility and authority for IFR operations?
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
December 15th 06, 12:02 AM
karl gruber wrote:
>
> I believe all towers can issue SVFR,
>
All towers cannot issue SVFR.
>
> and I know for sure that PDX tower can
> issue a contactapproach.
>
How can you tell if a tower is issuing a clearance for an IFR operation
or if it is relaying the clearance received from whatever facility has
responsibility and authority for IFR operations?
Doug[_1_]
December 15th 06, 01:45 AM
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>Upon further review, I did misspeak.
Drum roll. I think this is a FIRST!! :-)
karl gruber[_1_]
December 18th 06, 09:03 PM
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> How can you tell if a tower is issuing a clearance for an IFR operation
> or if it is relaying the clearance received from whatever facility has
> responsibility and authority for IFR operations?
Who cares?
KG
December 19th 06, 08:06 AM
karl gruber wrote:
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > How can you tell if a tower is issuing a clearance for an IFR operation
> > or if it is relaying the clearance received from whatever facility has
> > responsibility and authority for IFR operations?
>
>
> Who cares?
>
> KG
Because it takes quite a bit longer to get the relay. So if you're
scud running and looking for a quickie pop-up, you should go to the
main source. Many "VFR" towers have to call the ARTCC or TRACON. So
calling one of those towers is just a shade better than calling FSS.
Roger[_4_]
December 21st 06, 01:29 AM
On 19 Dec 2006 00:06:28 -0800, wrote:
>
>karl gruber wrote:
>> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> >
>> > How can you tell if a tower is issuing a clearance for an IFR operation
>> > or if it is relaying the clearance received from whatever facility has
>> > responsibility and authority for IFR operations?
>>
>>
>> Who cares?
>>
>> KG
>
>Because it takes quite a bit longer to get the relay. So if you're
>scud running and looking for a quickie pop-up, you should go to the
>main source. Many "VFR" towers have to call the ARTCC or TRACON. So
>calling one of those towers is just a shade better than calling FSS.
Assuming they will take it. They need to have time to handle you and
if they have that they need a place to put you and if traffic is heavy
that may not be convenient.
A few years back I was on my way to Oshkosh (not during the fly-in).
When I took off from Midland (3BS) things were right down to minimums
and rain. In most places it was only high enough to be legal on the
ILS. I was on top a bit above 7000 and cruising west at 8000. Here
you get handed off from departure to Cleveland Center and within a
couple of minutes (usually) before finishing your climb when West
bound you get handed off to Minneapolis Center.
Center was busier than the proverbial cat on a marble floor. A King
Air from some where up in the Pelston area popped up on frequency and
tried to file. They bluntly told him to go back to FSS and file. Now
ceilings were so low it's unlikely he could have been skudd running in
the clear without flying between the trees, let alone hills up there.
OTOH it is *possible* he did see a hole to get him on top. Most of
the state was 100 to 200 with rain. He was on top just like the rest
of us. (not asking how he got there but I think center had a good idea
about that magic hole) A bit later he was back as he cold not contact
FSS and asked if they had *another* frequency for them in that area.
Apparently either none of the towers in that area wanted him or he
didn't want to call them and admit where he was. (Yes I am making some
assumptions, but pretty well founded according the weather briefing)
So he had taken off into the clag with the idea of calling center for
a pop up. Unfortunately Center didn't want to do it that way and to
finally put him into the system without violating any one they had to
make other traffic wait while they let him file, put him into the
system, and gave him a clearance.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Dave Butler
December 22nd 06, 01:43 PM
Roger wrote:
> Center was busier than the proverbial cat on a marble floor. A King
> Air from some where up in the Pelston area popped up on frequency and
> tried to file.
I've been in that radio black-hole at Pellston. Nobody can hear you 'til
you get some serious altitude. There is definitely a trap there for
anyone thinking they could take off VFR and get a clearance airborne.
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