Tanis heaters

[cpw]

I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
(not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
Thanks. CPW

[Rich]

cpw wrote:
> I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
> (not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
> currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
> been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
> leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
> practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
> Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
> Thanks. CPW
>

This is a "hot" topic (grin) and you will get strong opinions on both sides.

I belong to the 'church' that says you can't get condensation if the
engine stays warmer than the ambient temperature. Had a discussion with
John Deakin who believes this is correct, as well. I plug mine in after
flight and open up the oil filler tube (IO520) to allow any humid air to
escape the engine.

Others believe that leaving the heater on all the time will promote
corrosion brought about by changes in the ambient temperature. Both
Tanis and Reiff do not recommend leaving it on all the time.

I have several airport friends that have rigged up devices to turn
theirs on and off with a cell phone timing device.

Perhaps a factor is what kind of winters your plane must endure. What's
right for Michigan may be wrong for Tennessee.

Rich
SE Michigan

[Jay Honeck]

> Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?

This debate rages every year at this time. Some folks swear that you
shouldn't leave them plugged in all the time (due to condensation
build-up), others have devised cell-phone switches that allow you to
call your plane to turn on the heat a few hours before each flight.

Personally, I used to leave mine plugged in all the time, with an
in-line sensor that turned the heater on automatically when the temp
dropped below 40 degrees.

When that sensor went T.U. last year, I just started plugging it in,
and leaving it on all winter.

Some people say that this risks "burning" the oil right near the heat
pad (we also have the cylinder heaters) -- but I'm betting that this
heat pales to insignificance compared to the temperatures generated by
the titanic forces inside the engine during regular operations.

I'm also betting that it's better to leave the heat on all the time
than it is to forget to pre-heat, and just start it up and go. I've
had to do that once or twice, and I just cringed at how stiff and
clackity everything sounded at start-up...

Probably the thing I worry about most is burning out the heat elements
from over-use.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Stan Prevost]

"Rich" > wrote in message
...
>
> I belong to the 'church' that says you can't get condensation if the
> engine stays warmer than the ambient temperature. Had a discussion with
> John Deakin who believes this is correct, as well. I plug mine in after
> flight and open up the oil filler tube (IO520) to allow any humid air to
> escape the engine.

Or to enter the engine. When the engine is cooling from operating
temperature to the temperature maintained by the heater, doesn't outside air
get drawn into the engine?

[Matt Barrow]

"cpw" > wrote in message
s.com...
>I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
> (not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
> currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
> been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
> leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
> practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
> Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?

THINK: How would keeping the oil at 70 degrees differ from, say, Florida,
where those are typically year-round temperatures?


--
Matt (prefers the Reiff heater, and keeps it on six months of the year)
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)

[Matt Barrow]

"Rich" > wrote in message
...
cpw wrote:
> Others believe that leaving the heater on all the time will promote
> corrosion brought about by changes in the ambient temperature. Both Tanis
> and Reiff do not recommend leaving it on all the time.

Caveats: http://www.reiffpreheat.com/FAQ.htm#QA3


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)

[dave]

Matt, if the entire engine was warm you'd be correct. The problem is
that any unheated parts of the engine may be cold enough to allow
condensation. You need to keep the entire engine at the same
temperature. So if you use a pan heater and cylinder heaters and also
use an insulated cowling cover, you should be fine by leaving the
heaters on all winter because the entire engine should be warm. That's
the theory anyway.

I'm trying to decide which way I want to go. I had a pad heater on my
citabria that I would turn on for several hours before I flew if it was
cold out. I just got my bonanza a couple of weeks ago and I'm thinking
about using the full Rieff package or getting a portable red dragon.
The advantage of the red dragon is that you can use it anytime and it
should warm the engine up in about 30 minutes. The disadvantage is that
to make it truly portable, you need to get the 12V model and run it off
your battery. Not a problem at my airport, I'll simply run it off my
car battery but I can imagine being at some airport on a cold Sunday
afternoon with a very warm engine and a dead battery.

Any red dragon users out there? How long to warm up an io-470?

Dave
1960 M35


Matt Barrow wrote:
> "cpw" > wrote in message
> s.com...
>> I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
>> (not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
>> currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
>> been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
>> leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
>> practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
>> Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
>
> THINK: How would keeping the oil at 70 degrees differ from, say, Florida,
> where those are typically year-round temperatures?
>
>

[Gene Seibel]

cpw wrote:
> I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
> (not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
> currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
> been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
> leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
> practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
> Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
> Thanks. CPW

Since there is usually a week or two between our flights in winter, it
seems pretty inefficient to leave it on all the time. In our case, we
drive past the airport nearly every day so it's no big deal to stop and
plug it into a timer to get a few hours of heat just before a planned
flight. Wish I knew if it was OK to leave it plugged in or on a
thermostat, but everyone it so busy covering their backsides that there
is no useful info available.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[The Visitor]

I leave mine on all the time when the temperature is close to freezing.
That is most of the winter.Before that, I make a trip a day or two prior
to plug them in. Over ten years, no problems.

Down the row the guy plugs in after every flight, always on. Most of the
year. All but for the middle of summer. Ten plus years, no problems.

John

cpw wrote:

> I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
> (not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
> currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
> been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
> leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
> practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
> Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
> Thanks. CPW
>

[Gene Seibel]

Rich wrote:
> I belong to the 'church' that says you can't get condensation if the
> engine stays warmer than the ambient temperature. Had a discussion with
> John Deakin who believes this is correct, as well. I plug mine in after
> flight and open up the oil filler tube (IO520) to allow any humid air to
> escape the engine.

That does seem to make sense. Probably much better than being on a
thermostat that turns it off and on.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[The Visitor]

I too take of the filler caps after every flight and let the steam
escape. But thigs are covered up enough to prevent anything from going in.

Gene Seibel wrote:

> Rich wrote:
>
>>I belong to the 'church' that says you can't get condensation if the
>>engine stays warmer than the ambient temperature. Had a discussion with
>>John Deakin who believes this is correct, as well. I plug mine in after
>>flight and open up the oil filler tube (IO520) to allow any humid air to
>>escape the engine.
>
>
> That does seem to make sense. Probably much better than being on a
> thermostat that turns it off and on.
> --
> Gene Seibel
> Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
> Because I fly, I envy no one.
>

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

Matt Barrow wrote:
>
> Matt (prefers the Reiff heater, and keeps it on six months of the year)
>

I purchased a Hot Padd heater from Reiff. The heater could not be
mounted
on my engine in accordance with the supplied instructions, so I made do
as
best I could. The adhesive didn't cure and the pad easily peeled off.
I
returned the pad to Reiff for a refund, they sent it back to me with
more
adhesive. Apparently I violated the warranty by not following the
instructions to the letter, (the fact that it was impossible to follow
them
was of no interest to Reiff). I don't know if the Reiff heater is any
good
or not, I do know that their product support and customer relations are

terrible. I won't do business with them again.

[Peter R.]

cpw > wrote:

> Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?

I plug in my Tanis heater immediately after a flight, loosen the oil filler
cap and cover the exposed filler hole with a lint-free, old cloth to catch
the humid air that escapes, and wrap the engine and prop with an insulated
cowl blanket. This is in central NY state.

The aircraft will then sit for three nights until I pull it out of the
unheated t-hanger to fly again.

--
Peter

[Roger[_4_]]

On 22 Dec 2006 05:09:53 -0800, "cpw" > wrote:

>I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
>(not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
>currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
>been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
>leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
>practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
>Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
>Thanks. CPW

I'm a bit south of you but probably not by much (Midland)

I have both the case and cylinder head heaters. I have a blanket that
wraps everything forward the windshield save the prop and nose gear
but even a portion of them is protected.

If I'm flying much I just wrap it up and plug in the heater when I put
it in the hangar. The engine never gets cold enough for condensation.
I check for that by looking at the top of the dip stick. If I don't
put the blanket on I'll see moisture on the stick, however I doubt
there's any in the oil or engine proper as that is quite a bit warmer
even without the blanket.

The oil companies *used* to say only use the heater when needed. The
last bulletin I read suggested keeping the engine warm if it could be
kept warm enough to prevent condensation.

However if I wasn't going to fly for a couple of weeks I'd leave it
off as the "cling" is pretty much gone after a couple of weeks.

Here it is near the end of the year and I've not found it necessary to
even use the heater so far.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 22 Dec 2006 05:09:53 -0800, "cpw" > wrote:

>I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
>(not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
>currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
>been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
>leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
>practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
>Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
>Thanks. CPW

My a/c is based in NH and Maine, and I've had a Tanis Heater (oil screen
and heated intake bolts) for 10 or 15 years, along with an engine cover.

When OAT's drop below freezing, the heater gets plugged in and the cover
applied. It stays this way constantly throughout the winter (obviously not
when I'm flying, which may vary from a few times a week, to a few weeks
between times.

No signs that this procedure has lead to corrosion (and I do get oil
analyses with oil changes).

Usually, the CHT's read about 100°F, and the oil about 80°F.
--ron

[Matt Barrow]

"dave" > wrote in message
...
> Matt, if the entire engine was warm you'd be correct. The problem is
> that any unheated parts of the engine may be cold enough to allow
> condensation. You need to keep the entire engine at the same temperature.
> So if you use a pan heater and cylinder heaters and also use an insulated
> cowling cover, you should be fine by leaving the heaters on all winter
> because the entire engine should be warm. That's the theory anyway.

Yes, but I can't imagine anyone using an engine heater without a thermal
cover. I have a semi-custom cover that goes clear over the cabin. It's sweet
in that the cabin is nice and warm, too. No frozen butt cheeks when you
first get in.

Using an engine heater without a thermal blanket is like having a furnace in
your home and leaving the windows open. Yet, stranger things have
happened...

>
> I'm trying to decide which way I want to go. I had a pad heater on my
> citabria that I would turn on for several hours before I flew if it was
> cold out. I just got my bonanza a couple of weeks ago and I'm thinking
> about using the full Rieff package or getting a portable red dragon.

What I like about the Reiff is that it's always with you and only needs an
electrical outlet. I've seen a few places that have like T-hangars with an
electrical outlet near by.

> The advantage of the red dragon is that you can use it anytime and it
> should warm the engine up in about 30 minutes. The disadvantage is that
> to make it truly portable, you need to get the 12V model and run it off
> your battery. Not a problem at my airport, I'll simply run it off my car
> battery but I can imagine being at some airport on a cold Sunday afternoon
> with a very warm engine and a dead battery.

Will it fit in your baggage compartment?

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)

[dave]

Matt Barrow wrote:

>> The advantage of the red dragon is that you can use it anytime and it
>> should warm the engine up in about 30 minutes. The disadvantage is that
>> to make it truly portable, you need to get the 12V model and run it off
>> your battery. Not a problem at my airport, I'll simply run it off my car
>> battery but I can imagine being at some airport on a cold Sunday afternoon
>> with a very warm engine and a dead battery.
>
> Will it fit in your baggage compartment?
>

No problem with putting it in the baggage compartment.
Dave

[Blanche]

I had the Reiff oil sump heater installed back in August. Last time
I went flying was 2 weeks ago. Put the 2 car blankets (those blue
quilted things from your favorite Big Box hardware store) over the
cowl after flying, made sure the heater was plugged in, patted the
putt-putt on the spinner and went home.

I live in the 'burbs of Denver.

Today was a *wonderful* day for flying. Cold, clear, no wind.

The city plowed the street and I have a 10 foot high
pile of snow that is now the consistency of concrete blocking my
driveway.

[Matt Barrow]

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
>I had the Reiff oil sump heater installed back in August. Last time
> I went flying was 2 weeks ago. Put the 2 car blankets (those blue
> quilted things from your favorite Big Box hardware store) over the
> cowl after flying, made sure the heater was plugged in, patted the
> putt-putt on the spinner and went home.
>
> I live in the 'burbs of Denver.
>
> Today was a *wonderful* day for flying. Cold, clear, no wind.
>
> The city plowed the street and I have a 10 foot high
> pile of snow that is now the consistency of concrete blocking my
> driveway.

Ahhh...memories of the Christmas '82 blizzard!

At least they plow your street! In '82, my car sat at the bottom of the hill
(Hampden & Tamarac) for four days because it couldn't make the last 150
yards up the hill through 25" of snow (and 8 foot drifts). In them days,
they maybe plowed the main thoroughfares, not the arterials and certainly
not the residential streets.

That was the storm that got Bill McNichols bounced out of office -- no, not
30 years of corruption, but that he had them plow the parking lot for
McNichols arena (named for a sitting mayor, no less) instead of the streets.

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)

[Peter R.]

Blanche > wrote:

> I had the Reiff oil sump heater installed back in August. Last time
> I went flying was 2 weeks ago. Put the 2 car blankets (those blue
> quilted things from your favorite Big Box hardware store) over the
> cowl after flying, made sure the heater was plugged in, patted the
> putt-putt on the spinner and went home.

Call me a sucker for marketing, but what covering the prop and spinner?
The point that the prop and spinner hanging out in the cold will transmit
that lower temperature through the crankshaft deep into the engine seemed
logical to me.

This is why I broke down and bought the insulated cowling cover and
prop/spinner covers from Kennon.

After three days of being plugged in and covered on a sub-zero day, my
aircraft's prop and spinner are still warm to touch.

> I live in the 'burbs of Denver.

Say hello to my brother for me. :) He lives in Firestone.

--
Peter

[Blanche]

Matt Barrow > wrote:
>
>"Blanche" > wrote in message
>>I had the Reiff oil sump heater installed back in August. Last time
>> I went flying was 2 weeks ago. Put the 2 car blankets (those blue
>> quilted things from your favorite Big Box hardware store) over the
>> cowl after flying, made sure the heater was plugged in, patted the
>> putt-putt on the spinner and went home.
>>
>> I live in the 'burbs of Denver.
>>
>> Today was a *wonderful* day for flying. Cold, clear, no wind.
>>
>> The city plowed the street and I have a 10 foot high
>> pile of snow that is now the consistency of concrete blocking my
>> driveway.
>
>Ahhh...memories of the Christmas '82 blizzard!
>
>At least they plow your street! In '82, my car sat at the bottom of the hill
>(Hampden & Tamarac) for four days because it couldn't make the last 150
>yards up the hill through 25" of snow (and 8 foot drifts). In them days,
>they maybe plowed the main thoroughfares, not the arterials and certainly
>not the residential streets.
>
>That was the storm that got Bill McNichols bounced out of office -- no, not
>30 years of corruption, but that he had them plow the parking lot for
>McNichols arena (named for a sitting mayor, no less) instead of the streets.

Yup -- BTDT.

Ah yes, that hill...not nearly as much fun as I-70 at Floyd Hill, or
the west side of the tunnel, but still entertaining.

I had 5 unexepected friends stay with me for 3 days because they
Couldn't get home. I'm near the bottom bend of I-225. In those days,
J really thought his Volvo could get thru everything and anything. And
this was a group of people from Chicago, who were used to unplowed
side streets, mayors who believed in Solar Snowplows, etc. But they
had never been thru a Colorado storm.

Just remember, McNicols named the stadium, but Webb (another sitting
mayor) named the new local Gov. building after himself. Fortunately
I don't live in Denver, just the 'burbs.

On the other hand, at least we have buried utilities so unless someone
cuts thru, we keep power on, unlike Buffalo and western NY earlier
this year. The paternal side of the family had no water or power or
heat for 8 days. They thought the same thing was happening down
here and called in a panic.

The airports, on the other hand, are another matter.
Once KAPA opened, the Citations and Lears
were coming in every 3-5 minutes, non-stop on Friday. DIA, on
the other hand (KDEN to those here) got the first Frontier flight
out just after 1200 MST. All the local news stations carried the
shot, much like a Shuttle lift-off. But there are people who have
spent 3 nights there already, and may not leave until after Christmas.
The local cities and hotels have a "distressed traveler" plan, put
into planning back in 2003, the last time this happened. Once the
road gets opened, buses get out to the airport and bring the folks
to the hotels. About 3000 people took advantage of this on Friday,
but not quite 2000 stayed at the airport to try and get stand-by
seats.

I'm still astonished at
1) all the people who have 4-wheel drive and think they are invincible and
can travel thru anything
2) and/or have lived here more than 3 winters and don't prepare --
far too many folks don't even have snow shovels!

[Blanche]

Peter R. > wrote:
>Blanche > wrote:
>
>> I had the Reiff oil sump heater installed back in August. Last time
>> I went flying was 2 weeks ago. Put the 2 car blankets (those blue
>> quilted things from your favorite Big Box hardware store) over the
>> cowl after flying, made sure the heater was plugged in, patted the
>> putt-putt on the spinner and went home.
>
>Call me a sucker for marketing, but what covering the prop and spinner?
>The point that the prop and spinner hanging out in the cold will transmit
>that lower temperature through the crankshaft deep into the engine seemed
>logical to me.
>
>This is why I broke down and bought the insulated cowling cover and
>prop/spinner covers from Kennon.
>
>After three days of being plugged in and covered on a sub-zero day, my
>aircraft's prop and spinner are still warm to touch.
>
>> I live in the 'burbs of Denver.
>
>Say hello to my brother for me. :) He lives in Firestone.

Sorry -- didn't provide all the info.

1) Yes I have prop covers and a spinner cover.
2) the blankets easily cover the air intakes on the cowl

Not sure where Firestone is. But I haven't even seen my neighbors
from 4 houses over, the plows have piled up so much snow. Somehow,
I think we'll have a different company on contract next year.

[Peter R.]

Blanche > wrote:

> Sorry -- didn't provide all the info.
>
> 1) Yes I have prop covers and a spinner cover.
> 2) the blankets easily cover the air intakes on the cowl

Ah, OK. Very good.

> Not sure where Firestone is.

About 25 miles north of Denver. Straight up that major north/south highway
there.

--
Peter

[No Spam]

On 12/22/06 07:38, "Rich" > wrote:

> Both
> Tanis and Reiff do not recommend leaving it on all the time.

My Tanis paperwork (circa 1997) says it's okay to leave it plugged in all
during cold weather. The website still says the same thing, "It can be left
plugged in continuously, keeping engine safely warm for starting even in
sub-zero weather."

-> Don
History does not long entrust the care of freedom
to the weak or the timid. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

[[email protected][_1_]]

On 22 Dec 2006 05:09:53 -0800, "cpw" > wrote:

>I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
>(not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
>currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
>been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
>leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
>practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
>Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
>Thanks. CPW

Had numerous conversations with Peter Tanis prior to his passing on
this subject, as well as the corrosion issue. I wish I still had the
various tech material he forwarded to me years ago.

There is a very informative article on their website that you should
take the time to read if you haven't already:

http://www.tanisaircraft.com/article6.html

The main thing that I took away from the tech material that he shared
with me with regard to internal corrosion was that the oil temp
should always stay under 100 degrees F.

If I remember correctly, a Tanis system tends to raise the oil temp
about 50 degrees F, so if ambient is below 50 degrees F, no worries.

Peter told me that one of his local customers ran Pt 135 Seneca II's
that stayed plugged in continuously (when they weren't flying)
throughout the winter. When we discussed it, they had been doing it
for over 5 years without issues.

One main advantage these aircraft had were that they were operated in
a manner that minimized the moisture trapped in the oil. That can
often be problematic for non-frequent flyers.

I have no financial interest in Tanis, and Peter NEVER gave me
anything resembling a sales pitch. It seemed to me that he felt that
educating technicians and owners about pre-heating would do his
selling for him.

Regards;

TC

[nrp]

A MN fnend with a 180 HP Lycoming/Cardinal received enough corrosion
from continuous Tanis heat to require a top OH after only one winter.
It obviously was localized corrosion on the bottom of the jug he had
above his desk where I worked.

[Roger[_4_]]

On 23 Dec 2006 16:50:45 GMT, Blanche > wrote:

>Matt Barrow > wrote:
>>
My daughter was marooned in Cabo San Lucas with a direct Frontier
flight due in around 5:00 on Friday. They did get in around the same
time today. Me? I think I'd have waited for a wind off the mountains
to melt the snow. Cabo sounds a whale of a lot better this time of
year than Denver, but OTOH a whole lot more expensive too.

>out just after 1200 MST. All the local news stations carried the
>shot, much like a Shuttle lift-off. But there are people who have
>spent 3 nights there already, and may not leave until after Christmas.
>The local cities and hotels have a "distressed traveler" plan, put
>into planning back in 2003, the last time this happened. Once the
>road gets opened, buses get out to the airport and bring the folks
>to the hotels. About 3000 people took advantage of this on Friday,
>but not quite 2000 stayed at the airport to try and get stand-by
>seats.
>
>I'm still astonished at
>1) all the people who have 4-wheel drive and think they are invincible and
> can travel thru anything
>2) and/or have lived here more than 3 winters and don't prepare --
> far too many folks don't even have snow shovels!

Kevin's dad didn't even have an ice scraper in his. Of course Deb and
Kevin left theirs at his folks (with chains, shovel, and ice scrapers
- They do live on the second rage back where they had 12 feet of the
stuff two years ago)

Fortunately the sun had already melted the ice on the wind shield and
it wasn't too bad once they were out of the parking lot <:-))



Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger[_4_]]

On 23 Dec 2006 16:53:31 GMT, Blanche > wrote:

>Peter R. > wrote:
>>Blanche > wrote:
>>
>>> I had the Reiff oil sump heater installed back in August. Last time
>>> I went flying was 2 weeks ago. Put the 2 car blankets (those blue
>>> quilted things from your favorite Big Box hardware store) over the
>>> cowl after flying, made sure the heater was plugged in, patted the
>>> putt-putt on the spinner and went home.
>>
>>Call me a sucker for marketing, but what covering the prop and spinner?
>>The point that the prop and spinner hanging out in the cold will transmit
>>that lower temperature through the crankshaft deep into the engine seemed
>>logical to me.
>>
>>This is why I broke down and bought the insulated cowling cover and
>>prop/spinner covers from Kennon.
>>
>>After three days of being plugged in and covered on a sub-zero day, my
>>aircraft's prop and spinner are still warm to touch.
>>
>>> I live in the 'burbs of Denver.
>>
>>Say hello to my brother for me. :) He lives in Firestone.
>
>Sorry -- didn't provide all the info.
>
>1) Yes I have prop covers and a spinner cover.
>2) the blankets easily cover the air intakes on the cowl

On the Deb the spinner creates a lot of space. I wrap the blankets
around everything and pin them together under the cowl. Even at zero
the prop blades are quite warm out a foot or so beyond the blanket.
The engine is uncomfortable to touch where the crank comes out.
Probably some where around 10 to 20 below I'd have to put boots on the
prop blades, but you aren't getting me out there in those temps so
it's a non issue. <:-))


>
>Not sure where Firestone is. But I haven't even seen my neighbors
>from 4 houses over, the plows have piled up so much snow. Somehow,
>I think we'll have a different company on contract next year.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger[_4_]]

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 03:14:01 GMT, wrote:

>On 22 Dec 2006 05:09:53 -0800, "cpw" > wrote:
>
>>I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
>>(not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
>>currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
>>been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
>>leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
>>practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
>>Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
>>Thanks. CPW
>
>Had numerous conversations with Peter Tanis prior to his passing on
>this subject, as well as the corrosion issue. I wish I still had the
>various tech material he forwarded to me years ago.
>
>There is a very informative article on their website that you should
>take the time to read if you haven't already:
>
>http://www.tanisaircraft.com/article6.html
>
>The main thing that I took away from the tech material that he shared
>with me with regard to internal corrosion was that the oil temp
>should always stay under 100 degrees F.

Mine stays at roughly 50C which is well above 100F. No corrosion in
10 years and the engine is close to TBO.

>
>If I remember correctly, a Tanis system tends to raise the oil temp
>about 50 degrees F, so if ambient is below 50 degrees F, no worries.

Mine is a whale of a lot hotter than that. The crank case is hot
enough to be uncomfortable to hold your hand on it tightly.
I'd guess the cowl is probably around a 100F.
>
>Peter told me that one of his local customers ran Pt 135 Seneca II's
>that stayed plugged in continuously (when they weren't flying)
>throughout the winter. When we discussed it, they had been doing it
>for over 5 years without issues.
>
As long as the engine runs often enough to keep things oiled I'd think
it'd work fine. There were several articles on this in recent years.
Most of those basically said to keep it hot enough to prevent
condensation. If you couldn't do that then only preheat before use.
Keeping it hot has been keeping the oil clear and clean until almost
20 hours.

>One main advantage these aircraft had were that they were operated in
>a manner that minimized the moisture trapped in the oil. That can
>often be problematic for non-frequent flyers.
>
>I have no financial interest in Tanis, and Peter NEVER gave me
>anything resembling a sales pitch. It seemed to me that he felt that
>educating technicians and owners about pre-heating would do his
>selling for him.
>
>Regards;
>
>TC
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[David Lesher]

Blanche > writes:


>I'm still astonished at
>1) all the people who have 4-wheel drive and think they are invincible and
> can travel thru anything

Click & Clack say:

4-wheel drive means you can get farther away
from help before you get stuck.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Gene Seibel]

David Lesher wrote:
> Blanche > writes:
>
>
> >I'm still astonished at
> >1) all the people who have 4-wheel drive and think they are invincible and
> > can travel thru anything
>
> Click & Clack say:
>
> 4-wheel drive means you can get farther away
> from help before you get stuck.

Love those guys. ;)
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[[email protected]]

Here in Colorado, we keep the airplane plugged in with an oil pan
heater and a battery maintainer (think float charger that shuts
off).

Note that the oil pan heater is plugged into another device. If you
think about it, an engine heater (oil pan or tanis) may get too hot
if left on all the time...

A heater is a resistive device. Usually, they are 600 watts or
less. Now think about a normal light bulb... resistive. What I did
was build a breakout-box with a "light dimmer", calibrated and
turned down to "75%". So, we have our heater plugged in all the
time (300 watts), turned down to 75%, so the engine and oil are
"warm", but not "hot".

Our last engine (IO-520)/206 went 750 hours beyond TBO. The
previous two (O-470)/182 went 2X TBO.

I grew up in northern Wisconsin. We do not have real winters in
Colorado. It just looks like that on TV. :-)

In article > you wrote:
> I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
> (not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
> currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
> been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
> leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
> practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
> Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
> Thanks. CPW

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer at frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles!

[Roger[_4_]]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 21:21:46 -0000, wrote:

>Here in Colorado, we keep the airplane plugged in with an oil pan
>heater and a battery maintainer (think float charger that shuts
>off).
>
>Note that the oil pan heater is plugged into another device. If you
>think about it, an engine heater (oil pan or tanis) may get too hot
>if left on all the time...
The Tannis pan heater is a temperature limited device just like the
heat tape used on roofs to prevent ice build up and pipes to prevent
freezing. .

>
>A heater is a resistive device. Usually, they are 600 watts or

The Tanis is a variable resistance device that is temperature limited.

>less. Now think about a normal light bulb... resistive. What I did
>was build a breakout-box with a "light dimmer", calibrated and
>turned down to "75%". So, we have our heater plugged in all the

Which should be defeating the purpose of spending the money for a
temperature limited device. One of the reasons the Tanis is expensive.
>time (300 watts), turned down to 75%, so the engine and oil are
>"warm", but not "hot".

The oil needs be hot enough to get rid of all the water and *acid*.
The engine parts need to be hot enough to prevent condensation. That's
not really *hot* but it will be uncomfortably warm to leave your hand
laying on it.

Whether I leave the cowl uncovered or wrapped up tight the oil goes to
the same temperature. However by bundling things up the rest of the
engine compartment gets nice and toasty and I use less electricity.

>
>Our last engine (IO-520)/206 went 750 hours beyond TBO. The
>previous two (O-470)/182 went 2X TBO.
>
>I grew up in northern Wisconsin. We do not have real winters in
>Colorado. It just looks like that on TV. :-)
>
>In article > you wrote:
>> I live in northern lower Michigan where we have real winters some years
>> (not this one yet). My partner and I own a 2000 Cessna 182. We are
>> currently debating the proper use of the Tanis engine heater. It has
>> been our practice in the past to plug the heater in after a flight and
>> leave it plugged in until the next. We have heard lately that best
>> practice is to only use the heater for a few hours prior to flight.
>> Any opinions among other owners in cold climes?
>> Thanks. CPW
>
>Best regards,
>
>Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Newps]

Roger wrote:


>
>
> Which should be defeating the purpose of spending the money for a
> temperature limited device. One of the reasons the Tanis is expensive.

Right, which is why I bought my pan heater at Tractor Supply. It's a 50
watt unit and costs $25. No need for a thermostat. With a nose mitten
from Kennon the engine compartment is nice and warm. Oil gets to 100
and all the cylinders are 80.


>
> The oil needs be hot enough to get rid of all the water and *acid*.


Which you will never accomplish with any type of external heater. Only
running the engine will do that.

[Matt Barrow]

> wrote in message ...
> Here in Colorado, we keep the airplane plugged in with an oil pan
> heater and a battery maintainer (think float charger that shuts
> off).

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/tbo.htm

How to Warm a Cold Engine

By Kas Thomas

TBO ADVISOR, Nov/Dec 1998


>
> Note that the oil pan heater is plugged into another device. If you
> think about it, an engine heater (oil pan or tanis) may get too hot
> if left on all the time...
>
> A heater is a resistive device. Usually, they are 600 watts or
> less. Now think about a normal light bulb... resistive. What I did
> was build a breakout-box with a "light dimmer", calibrated and
> turned down to "75%". So, we have our heater plugged in all the
> time (300 watts), turned down to 75%, so the engine and oil are
> "warm", but not "hot".
>
> Our last engine (IO-520)/206 went 750 hours beyond TBO. The
> previous two (O-470)/182 went 2X TBO.
>
> I grew up in northern Wisconsin. We do not have real winters in
> Colorado. It just looks like that on TV. :-)

Especially the last couple weeks...


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO (MTJ)