propane preheater

[dave]

Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I
use in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube
type with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply
attach a flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air
into the cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
Thanks
Dave

[Stan Prevost]

If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
the engine, bad in the cabin.


"dave" > wrote in message
. ..
> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
> Thanks
> Dave

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stan Prevost ]
> Posted At: Friday, December 22, 2006 10:35 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
> Conversation: propane preheater
> Subject: Re: propane preheater
>
> If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
> drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and
water
> vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
> create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK
on
> the engine, bad in the cabin.
>
>
> "dave" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater
I
> use
> > in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube
type
> > with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply
attach
> a
> > flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into
the
> > cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
> > Thanks
> > Dave

It may also render your CO detector completely useless. Aren't the
combustion products are CO and H2O, not CO2 and H2O?

[Dave S]

> It may also render your CO detector completely useless. Aren't the
> combustion products are CO and H2O, not CO2 and H2O?
>

Complete combustion results in only C02 and H20.

Incomplete combustion, such as that in an (relatively) oxygen starved
environment, results in the formation of CO (carbon monoxide).

The trick is knowing wether or not you are having complete combustion.
People have died as a result.

Dave

[Blanche]

I've got a little ($15) ceramic heater that I put on the floor of the
cabin when I arrive at the airport -- and turn it on, of course. By the
time I've finished preflight and such, the cabin is comfy.

[dave]

I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
the FBO's use.

Dave

Stan Prevost wrote:
> If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
> drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
> vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
> create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
> the engine, bad in the cabin.
>
>
> "dave" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
>> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
>> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
>> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
>> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
>> Thanks
>> Dave
>
>

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
dave > wrote:

> I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
> this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
> the FBO's use.

Are you thinking about blowing the hot air into the cabin or into
the engine compartment?



> >> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
> >> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
> >> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
> >> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
> >> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[dave]

Bob,
I'm really only interested in using it to heat the engine.
Dave

Bob Noel wrote:
> In article >,
> dave > wrote:
>
>> I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
>> this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
>> the FBO's use.
>
> Are you thinking about blowing the hot air into the cabin or into
> the engine compartment?
>
>
>
>>>> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
>>>> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
>>>> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
>>>> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
>>>> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
>

[Jay Somerset]

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:35:13 -0600, "Stan Prevost" >
wrote:

> If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
> drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
> vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
> create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
> the engine, bad in the cabin.

Also, there will probably be a moderate amount of crbon monoxide in the
exhaust. This is not really a good idea, and will instantly tuen any CO
detector "black".

>
>
> "dave" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
> > in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
> > with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
> > flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
> > cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
> > Thanks
> > Dave
>

[Stan Prevost]

"dave" > wrote in message
. ..
> I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how this
> is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that the FBO's
> use.
>

OK. You said "and blow the hot air into the cabin ", so it sounded like you
wanted to use it to preheat the cabin.

[Blanche]

dave > wrote:
>I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
>this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
>the FBO's use.
>
>Dave
>
>Stan Prevost wrote:
>> If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
>> drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
>> vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
>> create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
>> the engine, bad in the cabin.
>>
>>
>> "dave" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
>>> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
>>> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
>>> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
>>> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?

Didn't snip -- all the info is needed...

"blow the hot hair into the cabin" read just like that - you were
attempting to heat the cabin and not the engine. IIUC, you are thinking
of using the duct to blow air into the air intakes of the engine?
That's all a Red Dragon is, without the paint job and logo.

[Steve - KDMW]

I don't see anything wrong with running a duct into the cabin. My plane
(74 warrior) has the battery under the back seat and it must also be
preheated. I run warm air into the cabin from my Red Dragon and prop up
the bench seat so the air gets to it. By the time I've shut down the
heater, put it away, opened the door and got in, any CO buildup is
gone.

Electric heater would work great except for the fact that I don't have
a hangar or electricity available.


Blanche wrote:
> dave > wrote:
> >I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
> >this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
> >the FBO's use.
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >Stan Prevost wrote:
> >> If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
> >> drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
> >> vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
> >> create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
> >> the engine, bad in the cabin.
> >>
> >>
> >> "dave" > wrote in message
> >> . ..
> >>> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
> >>> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
> >>> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
> >>> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
> >>> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
>
> Didn't snip -- all the info is needed...
>
> "blow the hot hair into the cabin" read just like that - you were
> attempting to heat the cabin and not the engine. IIUC, you are thinking
> of using the duct to blow air into the air intakes of the engine?
> That's all a Red Dragon is, without the paint job and logo.

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve - KDMW ]
> Posted At: Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:17 AM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
> Conversation: propane preheater
> Subject: Re: propane preheater
>
> I don't see anything wrong with running a duct into the cabin. My
plane
> (74 warrior) has the battery under the back seat and it must also be
> preheated. I run warm air into the cabin from my Red Dragon and prop
up
> the bench seat so the air gets to it. By the time I've shut down the
> heater, put it away, opened the door and got in, any CO buildup is
> gone.
>

How do you keep the Carbon Monoxide detector from turning black? There
is enough CO in the heated air stream to trigger the detector -- or
don't you have one in the cockpit?

[Steve - KDMW]

It's stuck on with Velcro in the cabin. I just take it off and stick it
in my pocket until I get in to go flying.



Jim Carter wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steve - KDMW ]
> > Posted At: Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:17 AM
> > Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
> > Conversation: propane preheater
> > Subject: Re: propane preheater
> >
> > I don't see anything wrong with running a duct into the cabin. My
> plane
> > (74 warrior) has the battery under the back seat and it must also be
> > preheated. I run warm air into the cabin from my Red Dragon and prop
> up
> > the bench seat so the air gets to it. By the time I've shut down the
> > heater, put it away, opened the door and got in, any CO buildup is
> > gone.
> >
>
> How do you keep the Carbon Monoxide detector from turning black? There
> is enough CO in the heated air stream to trigger the detector -- or
> don't you have one in the cockpit?

[dave]

Sorry about that I should have explained my intentions more clearly.
But as I said I have seen people use them to warm their cabins. I'm
thinking about using this only at my hanger where I can also use a
ceramic heater for the cabin.

Dave
1960 M35

Stan Prevost wrote:
> "dave" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how this
>> is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that the FBO's
>> use.
>>
>
> OK. You said "and blow the hot air into the cabin ", so it sounded like you
> wanted to use it to preheat the cabin.
>
>

[dave]

Steve,
How long do you need to run the red dragon to heat up your engine if
it's around 10F outside? I guess when you're home you can run it off
your car battery. Have you had much experience running it off your
airplane battery?

I'm glad to hear that it works for you to heat the cabin.

Thanks
Dave
1960 M35


Steve - KDMW wrote:
> I don't see anything wrong with running a duct into the cabin. My plane
> (74 warrior) has the battery under the back seat and it must also be
> preheated. I run warm air into the cabin from my Red Dragon and prop up
> the bench seat so the air gets to it. By the time I've shut down the
> heater, put it away, opened the door and got in, any CO buildup is
> gone.
>
> Electric heater would work great except for the fact that I don't have
> a hangar or electricity available.
>
>
> Blanche wrote:
>> dave > wrote:
>>> I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
>>> this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
>>> the FBO's use.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> Stan Prevost wrote:
>>>> If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
>>>> drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
>>>> vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
>>>> create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
>>>> the engine, bad in the cabin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "dave" > wrote in message
>>>> . ..
>>>>> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
>>>>> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
>>>>> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
>>>>> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
>>>>> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
>> Didn't snip -- all the info is needed...
>>
>> "blow the hot hair into the cabin" read just like that - you were
>> attempting to heat the cabin and not the engine. IIUC, you are thinking
>> of using the duct to blow air into the air intakes of the engine?
>> That's all a Red Dragon is, without the paint job and logo.
>

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
dave > wrote:

> I guess when you're home you can run it off
> your car battery. Have you had much experience running it off your
> airplane battery?

I've used a motorcycle battery to run the red dragon fan.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Steve - KDMW]

The book says it should take about 15 minutes, but I usually run it
around 25-30 while I do my briefing and whatnot. The thing puts out a
ton of heat, so 15 minutes would probably be enough. I crank my
regulator down to almost as low as it will go without putting the flame
out and it still puts out serious heat.

It puts almost no drain on the battery. I have it mounted to a 2x4
piece of plywood that I put in the bed of my truck and plug it into the
cigarette lighter through the back window. I've known folks that have
been using the same standalone car battery for years.

Steve

dave wrote:
> Steve,
> How long do you need to run the red dragon to heat up your engine if
> it's around 10F outside? I guess when you're home you can run it off
> your car battery. Have you had much experience running it off your
> airplane battery?
>
> I'm glad to hear that it works for you to heat the cabin.
>
> Thanks
> Dave
> 1960 M35
>
>
> Steve - KDMW wrote:
> > I don't see anything wrong with running a duct into the cabin. My plane
> > (74 warrior) has the battery under the back seat and it must also be
> > preheated. I run warm air into the cabin from my Red Dragon and prop up
> > the bench seat so the air gets to it. By the time I've shut down the
> > heater, put it away, opened the door and got in, any CO buildup is
> > gone.
> >
> > Electric heater would work great except for the fact that I don't have
> > a hangar or electricity available.
> >
> >
> > Blanche wrote:
> >> dave > wrote:
> >>> I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
> >>> this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
> >>> the FBO's use.
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>> Stan Prevost wrote:
> >>>> If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
> >>>> drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
> >>>> vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
> >>>> create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
> >>>> the engine, bad in the cabin.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "dave" > wrote in message
> >>>> . ..
> >>>>> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
> >>>>> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
> >>>>> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
> >>>>> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
> >>>>> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
> >> Didn't snip -- all the info is needed...
> >>
> >> "blow the hot hair into the cabin" read just like that - you were
> >> attempting to heat the cabin and not the engine. IIUC, you are thinking
> >> of using the duct to blow air into the air intakes of the engine?
> >> That's all a Red Dragon is, without the paint job and logo.
> >

[dave]

Thanks. I may just get the red dragon and not mess around with the
garage heater.
Dave




Steve - KDMW wrote:
> The book says it should take about 15 minutes, but I usually run it
> around 25-30 while I do my briefing and whatnot. The thing puts out a
> ton of heat, so 15 minutes would probably be enough. I crank my
> regulator down to almost as low as it will go without putting the flame
> out and it still puts out serious heat.
>
> It puts almost no drain on the battery. I have it mounted to a 2x4
> piece of plywood that I put in the bed of my truck and plug it into the
> cigarette lighter through the back window. I've known folks that have
> been using the same standalone car battery for years.
>
> Steve
>
> dave wrote:
>> Steve,
>> How long do you need to run the red dragon to heat up your engine if
>> it's around 10F outside? I guess when you're home you can run it off
>> your car battery. Have you had much experience running it off your
>> airplane battery?
>>
>> I'm glad to hear that it works for you to heat the cabin.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Dave
>> 1960 M35
>>
>>
>> Steve - KDMW wrote:
>>> I don't see anything wrong with running a duct into the cabin. My plane
>>> (74 warrior) has the battery under the back seat and it must also be
>>> preheated. I run warm air into the cabin from my Red Dragon and prop up
>>> the bench seat so the air gets to it. By the time I've shut down the
>>> heater, put it away, opened the door and got in, any CO buildup is
>>> gone.
>>>
>>> Electric heater would work great except for the fact that I don't have
>>> a hangar or electricity available.
>>>
>>>
>>> Blanche wrote:
>>>> dave > wrote:
>>>>> I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
>>>>> this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
>>>>> the FBO's use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> Stan Prevost wrote:
>>>>>> If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
>>>>>> drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
>>>>>> vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
>>>>>> create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
>>>>>> the engine, bad in the cabin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "dave" > wrote in message
>>>>>> . ..
>>>>>>> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
>>>>>>> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
>>>>>>> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
>>>>>>> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
>>>>>>> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
>>>> Didn't snip -- all the info is needed...
>>>>
>>>> "blow the hot hair into the cabin" read just like that - you were
>>>> attempting to heat the cabin and not the engine. IIUC, you are thinking
>>>> of using the duct to blow air into the air intakes of the engine?
>>>> That's all a Red Dragon is, without the paint job and logo.
>

[LWG]

No drawbacks at all. I've done it as you described. I took an old battery,
put it in a plastic battery case from WalMart, and bought a $20 inverter to
hook to the battery. The propane heater I used ran on 120v, and we have
little access to electricity. Since the heater only needed 120v for a
little fan, the current draw was low, and the battery-inverter thing worked
great. I got a little propane bottle, and a thing called "barbeque saver"
which allows you to refill the little bottle from a standard size tank. I
put the battery box and little propane bottle on an old folding luggage
cart, and had a portable preheater.

"dave" > wrote in message
. ..
> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
> Thanks
> Dave

[Ron Natalie]

Dave S wrote:

>
> The trick is knowing wether or not you are having complete combustion.
> People have died as a result.
>
Those cheesy garage heaters generate CO. The instructions even warn
you not to use them in non vented spaces. I couldn't even use mine
in the garage with the door open without getting headaches.

[Ron Natalie]

Steve - KDMW wrote:
> It's stuck on with Velcro in the cabin. I just take it off and stick it
> in my pocket until I get in to go flying.
>
>
Do you take your head off and stick it somewhere else while flying?

[Montblack]

("Ron Natalie" wrote)
>> It's stuck on with Velcro in the cabin. I just take it off and stick it
>> in my pocket until I get in to go flying.

> Do you take your head off and stick it somewhere else while flying?


Put it on a swivel.

Am I right? That's the answer you were looking for, wasn't it - Swivel?


Montblack
(WWW) One common usability problem for pilots of highly automated aircraft
is "getting behind the airplane." <g>

[Roger[_4_]]

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:35:13 -0600, "Stan Prevost"
> wrote:

>If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
>drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
>vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
>create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
>the engine, bad in the cabin.
>

The combustion gasses have more than CO2 and water vapor. They are
highly acetic which is hard on about everything in the plane. If you
have one of those little carbon monoxide detectors (Yellow button)
it'll most likely change color and need to be replaced every time your
preheat. Unless the heater is very good it will also have a lot of
carbon monoxide in the output.

They make good engine heaters in an open space, but I'd not want to
use one in a garage, hangar, or for preheating the cabin.
>

I used an LP fired salamander in my shop when under construction. It
made my eyes water so bad I had to shut it down and that building
leaked like a sieve before it was closed up.

I changed to a kerosene fired salamander @ 50,000 BTU and checked the
area for CO. It was pretty clean, but I'd want to check any open
flame or catalytic heater for CO before trusting it.

BTW they make a nice small, 1200 watt heater with a fan and thermostat
that also has a tilt switch you can put in the cabin a couple of hours
before take off. Ramp the temp up in steps. (If you have an extension
cord that will reach) Throw some blankets over the cabin if
necessary. It'll be nice and toasty when you get in and drop to
freezing your butt off temps right after engine start, but the
instruments will be nice and warm and you'll at least be comfortable
while getting situated.

As to the propane heater and cabin, I'd outright say don't do it.
The CO will leave quickly but it's hard on every thing else in there.



>"dave" > wrote in message
. ..
>> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
>> in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
>> with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
>> flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
>> cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?

I've seen them blow air into the engine compartment, but never the
cabin.

>> Thanks
>> Dave
>
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger[_4_]]

On 23 Dec 2006 05:40:32 GMT, Blanche > wrote:

>I've got a little ($15) ceramic heater that I put on the floor of the
>cabin when I arrive at the airport -- and turn it on, of course. By the
>time I've finished preflight and such, the cabin is comfy.

I think mine was about $20 but it has a nice thermostat, fan, and tilt
switch to turn it off if it tips over. OTOH they are probably
available cheaper. I set it on the floor in front of the seats and a
bit under the instrument panel. Works great and no smell or after
effects.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Steve - KDMW]

Don't be an idiot.


Ron Natalie wrote:
> Steve - KDMW wrote:
> > It's stuck on with Velcro in the cabin. I just take it off and stick it
> > in my pocket until I get in to go flying.
> >
> >
> Do you take your head off and stick it somewhere else while flying?

[pittss1c]

From someone who has tried...
The problem I had was... they type I have has a combustion area, and the
air actually is just blown over the outside of it. (air blows out only
though the outside area of the internal combustion tube)
The result was, when I added ducting, the increase of back pressure
would cause some air to be blown backwards into the combustion tube and
puts out the flame. Not all are built this way, but many are now.


Mike

dave wrote:
> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I
> use in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube
> type with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply
> attach a flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air
> into the cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
> Thanks
> Dave

[dave]

I thought I'd follow up with some results. I ended up with a red dragon
propane heater that I bought off ebay for around $250.00 including
shipping. I think the new ones are around $550.00. The nice thing
about buying used off ebay is that if I am unhappy with the item I can
always sell it and not lose too much money. I used the red dragon
twice. Both times outdoor air temperatures were around 20F. I did not
use any blanket over the cowling because I wanted to measure
temperatures while the heater was running. In the future, probably not
until next winter, I'll use an old sleeping bag on top of the cowling to
help retain the heat. The highest surface temperature on top of the
cowling I measured was about 170F. Next winter, I plan to take more
measurements inside the cowling - cylinder heads, oil pan, etc.

The red dragon did a great job. No problems with moisture. I've had
condensation problems using the propane heater in my garage. Tons of
moisture collecting on cold steel hand tools. I suppose the difference
with the airplane is that after a few minutes, there aren't any cold
surfaces under the cowling so the moisture can't condense anywhere. I
let the heater run for about 20 minutes and my IO-470 started right up.
I forgot to check the oil temperature so I don't know what is was
before starting. By the time I looked at it it was already in the green.

I ran the 12Volt blower from my car battery not the airplane. My first
test next winter will be to run the blower off the airplane battery and
see how much battery capacity I lose. I understand that the blower uses
4 amps at 12 volts so running it for twenty minutes should leave enough
capacity for cranking but I'd like to make sure of that on a cold day at
my hanger not at a remote location. No use warming up the engine and
being left with a dead battery. I hand propped a cub a few times. I
don't think I'd want to try that on the bonanza.

On my last airplane, a citabria, I had a pan heater that if left on for
4 hours or so did a great job. On the io-470, if I went the 120 volt
electric heating route, I'd probably go for the full Rieff or Tanis
setup costing around $1500-2000 installed - I think. The two problems
with the 120V arrangement is the need to turn it on several hours before
starting and the possibility of being at a remote strip with no access
to 120V power. All things considered, for my purposes, I prefer the
red dragon. One more pirep, I had a question about the heater so I
called the manufacturer, Flame Engineering. They were a pleasure to
deal with.
Dave
Bonanza M35


dave wrote:
> Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I
> use in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube
> type with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply
> attach a flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air
> into the cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
> Thanks
> Dave

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
dave > wrote:

> I ran the 12Volt blower from my car battery not the airplane. My first
> test next winter will be to run the blower off the airplane battery and
> see how much battery capacity I lose.

I use a motorcycle battery to run the blower.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Mike Spera]

>
>
>>I ran the 12Volt blower from my car battery not the airplane. My first
>>test next winter will be to run the blower off the airplane battery and
>>see how much battery capacity I lose.
>
>
> I use a motorcycle battery to run the blower.
>
So do I. It is amazing that you can use a little 9-12AH battery to run
the thing. The MC battery also fits inside the toolbox setup I have. So,
that is one less thing to carry around.

Mike

[dave]

I understand that the blower consumes so little power, 4A for 15 or 20
minutes, it shouldn't be enough of a drain on my airplane's battery to
affect cranking - assuming my airplane's battery is in good shape. If
it looks like I'll need more juice, I think I might get one of those 12V
jump starter packs. Most seem to have a battery with about 18AH. I'd
like one that can be charged from either 120VAC or 12VDC. When I'm at
my home field, I simply use my car battery but I'm wondering if one of
the portable starter packs with the light and compressor wouldn't be a
bad thing to have regardless.
Dave
M35

Mike Spera wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> I ran the 12Volt blower from my car battery not the airplane. My
>>> first test next winter will be to run the blower off the airplane
>>> battery and see how much battery capacity I lose.
>>
>>
>> I use a motorcycle battery to run the blower.
>>
> So do I. It is amazing that you can use a little 9-12AH battery to run
> the thing. The MC battery also fits inside the toolbox setup I have. So,
> that is one less thing to carry around.
>
> Mike