So there I was...

[mbremer216]

On my way to visit relatives for X-mas. Flying from Northwest Indiana to
Savannah, GA in a Cherokee 180. Itching to put my recently earned IFR
ticket to work. Climbed out of my home field on Christmas Eve after the
risk of freezing fog had thawed. Up through a light cloud level at 2500 for
my first fuel stop at KLEX. Solid layer 2000 thick and an ILS down to 900'
and 5 miles - magic! Stop to fill the plane's tanks and empty mine.
Cleared through the layer and over the mountains. The cloud layer slipped
away behind me and nothing but clear sky and the mountains ahead. ATC
cleared to climb to 9000 for terrain and radar coverage.

Passing through 7500. Southeast bound past the London VOR. A whiff of oil
smell in the cockpit that passed as quickly as it came. Then, the suction
needle drops from it's usual 5.0 to nothing at all. What a revolting
development! Being in VFR conditions, a diversion to KTRI for help.

Mechanic confirmed that the vac pump had given up the ghost. Seized tighter
than dicks hat band. By now it was getting toward dark so continuing on
with a replacement didn't seem very attractive. Got it fixed the next day,
but freezing conditions and nasty winds kept us holed up in a motel room in
Kingsport, TN for Christmas. Nothing like Doritos and Snausages for
Christmas dinner while I explained to my wife how it's not the destination
but the trip that counts.

She said that I should enjoy my new vacuum pump for Christmas!!!

Mike

[Jim Macklin]

Now you have a good reason to get that Sporty's electric AI.
Be glad you were in VFR when it happened.



"mbremer216" > wrote in message
. ..
| On my way to visit relatives for X-mas. Flying from
Northwest Indiana to
| Savannah, GA in a Cherokee 180. Itching to put my
recently earned IFR
| ticket to work. Climbed out of my home field on Christmas
Eve after the
| risk of freezing fog had thawed. Up through a light cloud
level at 2500 for
| my first fuel stop at KLEX. Solid layer 2000 thick and an
ILS down to 900'
| and 5 miles - magic! Stop to fill the plane's tanks and
empty mine.
| Cleared through the layer and over the mountains. The
cloud layer slipped
| away behind me and nothing but clear sky and the mountains
ahead. ATC
| cleared to climb to 9000 for terrain and radar coverage.
|
| Passing through 7500. Southeast bound past the London
VOR. A whiff of oil
| smell in the cockpit that passed as quickly as it came.
Then, the suction
| needle drops from it's usual 5.0 to nothing at all. What
a revolting
| development! Being in VFR conditions, a diversion to KTRI
for help.
|
| Mechanic confirmed that the vac pump had given up the
ghost. Seized tighter
| than dicks hat band. By now it was getting toward dark so
continuing on
| with a replacement didn't seem very attractive. Got it
fixed the next day,
| but freezing conditions and nasty winds kept us holed up
in a motel room in
| Kingsport, TN for Christmas. Nothing like Doritos and
Snausages for
| Christmas dinner while I explained to my wife how it's not
the destination
| but the trip that counts.
|
| She said that I should enjoy my new vacuum pump for
Christmas!!!
|
| Mike
|
|

[Todd W. Deckard]

"mbremer216" > wrote in message
. ..
> Passing through 7500. Southeast bound past the London VOR. A whiff of
> oil smell in the cockpit that passed as quickly as it came. Then, the
> suction needle drops from it's usual 5.0 to nothing at all.

Interesting that you got a sniff of oil to portend the failure, I'll have to
file that one away. The pumps are referred to
as "dry" and "wet" can I ask which one you had? I imagine the bearings are
sealed and oiled even in the dry pump?

Our club airplanes have backup electric suction, however the 172s don't have
annunciator lights for the vacuum and I am
self conscious about the practical time to diagnose a failure before
adjusting my scan or activating the backup. I would
second Mr. Macklin's comment about the electric AI. I believe that would
be a more important safety net than
some of the other expensive accoutrements I have invested in over the years.
I have heard 400 hrs cited as the MTBF of
the pumps and we replace them out of superstition on a regular calendar
schedule.

The only failure I've ever experienced was on-top and the layer was thin
enough that we could see the city lights below so the descent on turn and
bank and airspeed was a non-event. I'm not sure I'd do as well in bumpy IMC
if
it wasn't preceeded by an instructor sticking a sink stopper over the AI.

As a side note, I've experimented with taking a photorealistic image of the
AI and cementing it to the temporary instrument
cover and for me it was quite distracting to have to scan past even an
artificial canted horizon.

Good show Mike and thanks for posting.

Todd

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/28/06 05:58, Todd W. Deckard wrote:
> "mbremer216" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Passing through 7500. Southeast bound past the London VOR. A whiff of
>> oil smell in the cockpit that passed as quickly as it came. Then, the
>> suction needle drops from it's usual 5.0 to nothing at all.
>
> Interesting that you got a sniff of oil to portend the failure, I'll have to
> file that one away. The pumps are referred to
> as "dry" and "wet" can I ask which one you had? I imagine the bearings are
> sealed and oiled even in the dry pump?
>
> Our club airplanes have backup electric suction, however the 172s don't have
> annunciator lights for the vacuum and I am
> self conscious about the practical time to diagnose a failure before
> adjusting my scan or activating the backup. I would
> second Mr. Macklin's comment about the electric AI. I believe that would
> be a more important safety net than
> some of the other expensive accoutrements I have invested in over the years.
> I have heard 400 hrs cited as the MTBF of
> the pumps and we replace them out of superstition on a regular calendar
> schedule.
>
> The only failure I've ever experienced was on-top and the layer was thin
> enough that we could see the city lights below so the descent on turn and
> bank and airspeed was a non-event. I'm not sure I'd do as well in bumpy IMC
> if
> it wasn't preceeded by an instructor sticking a sink stopper over the AI.
>
> As a side note, I've experimented with taking a photorealistic image of the
> AI and cementing it to the temporary instrument
> cover and for me it was quite distracting to have to scan past even an
> artificial canted horizon.

So buy some instrument covers, and keep them in your flight bag. If the
AI fails, cover it.

Best Regards,

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Jose[_1_]]

> As a side note, I've experimented with taking a photorealistic image of the
> AI and cementing it to the temporary instrument
> cover and for me it was quite distracting to have to scan past even an
> artificial canted horizon.

Interesting. I have flown MSFS set to fail systems at random, and found
that I could easily overlook the AI. The one that kept catching my eye
was the DG. Maybe it's because I do not use the AI as a primary
instrument at all - I tend to rely on altitude, DG, and T&B as my main
trio. My best approaches (both sim and hood) have been with failed
instruments.

Go figure.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jim Macklin]

I will second the need to have instrument covers. Post-it
notes will work or you can get the vinyl covers that stick
by static. As a CFI, I carried them in my shirt pocket all
the time, but I used them several times on other flights
when instruments failed.


http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/1022


"Todd W. Deckard" > wrote in message
ink.net...
|
| "mbremer216" > wrote in message
| . ..
| > Passing through 7500. Southeast bound past the London
VOR. A whiff of
| > oil smell in the cockpit that passed as quickly as it
came. Then, the
| > suction needle drops from it's usual 5.0 to nothing at
all.
|
| Interesting that you got a sniff of oil to portend the
failure, I'll have to
| file that one away. The pumps are referred to
| as "dry" and "wet" can I ask which one you had? I
imagine the bearings are
| sealed and oiled even in the dry pump?
|
| Our club airplanes have backup electric suction, however
the 172s don't have
| annunciator lights for the vacuum and I am
| self conscious about the practical time to diagnose a
failure before
| adjusting my scan or activating the backup. I would
| second Mr. Macklin's comment about the electric AI. I
believe that would
| be a more important safety net than
| some of the other expensive accoutrements I have invested
in over the years.
| I have heard 400 hrs cited as the MTBF of
| the pumps and we replace them out of superstition on a
regular calendar
| schedule.
|
| The only failure I've ever experienced was on-top and the
layer was thin
| enough that we could see the city lights below so the
descent on turn and
| bank and airspeed was a non-event. I'm not sure I'd do as
well in bumpy IMC
| if
| it wasn't preceeded by an instructor sticking a sink
stopper over the AI.
|
| As a side note, I've experimented with taking a
photorealistic image of the
| AI and cementing it to the temporary instrument
| cover and for me it was quite distracting to have to scan
past even an
| artificial canted horizon.
|
| Good show Mike and thanks for posting.
|
| Todd
|
|
|

[A Lieberma]

Jose > wrote in
et:

> Interesting. I have flown MSFS set to fail systems at random, and
> found that I could easily overlook the AI. The one that kept catching
> my eye was the DG. Maybe it's because I do not use the AI as a
> primary instrument at all - I tend to rely on altitude, DG, and T&B as
> my main trio. My best approaches (both sim and hood) have been with
> failed instruments.

Kinda have to agree with you Jose. In my instrument training, I never
missed the AI when instruments "failed".

What I did miss the most was the stupid header bug! That naturally was
covered up with the DG, which meant I really had to be on top of my game to
remembering headings rather then "set the bug and forget it".

For level flight, I rely on the VSI. I figure, if it doesn't show me
descending and climbing, then I am "relatively level" and use the turn
coordinator to verify bank information. For heading, I now use my GPS
ground track rather then my backup compass.

Allen

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/28/06 14:29, A Lieberma wrote:
> Jose > wrote in
> et:
>
>> Interesting. I have flown MSFS set to fail systems at random, and
>> found that I could easily overlook the AI. The one that kept catching
>> my eye was the DG. Maybe it's because I do not use the AI as a
>> primary instrument at all - I tend to rely on altitude, DG, and T&B as
>> my main trio. My best approaches (both sim and hood) have been with
>> failed instruments.
>
> Kinda have to agree with you Jose. In my instrument training, I never
> missed the AI when instruments "failed".
>
> What I did miss the most was the stupid header bug! That naturally was
> covered up with the DG, which meant I really had to be on top of my game to
> remembering headings rather then "set the bug and forget it".

That's what you missed about the DG? Not that you had to use the Wet
Compass?!? ;-)

Ugggh - I hate that stupid wet compass ;-\

>
> For level flight, I rely on the VSI. I figure, if it doesn't show me
> descending and climbing, then I am "relatively level" and use the turn
> coordinator to verify bank information. For heading, I now use my GPS
> ground track rather then my backup compass.
>
> Allen



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/28/06 12:55, Bonehenge wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:33:27 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
> > wrote:
>
>>I will second the need to have instrument covers. Post-it
>>notes will work or you can get the vinyl covers that stick
>>by static. As a CFI, I carried them in my shirt pocket all
>>the time, but I used them several times on other flights
>>when instruments failed.
>
> I'm not a CFI, but carry a pair of them in my bag for just such an
> occasion.

Wow, you carry CFI's around with you? I'll bet they come in real
handy ;-)

>
> My CFII kept dropping them down the side of the glareshield. <G>

Heh, I would just tell the CFII that if he drops the stickies, he
can't fail any of my instruments ;-)

.... probably wouldn't get away with it though ;-\



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[A Lieberma]

Mark Hansen > wrote in
:

> That's what you missed about the DG? Not that you had to use the Wet
> Compass?!? ;-)
>
> Ugggh - I hate that stupid wet compass ;-\

I have the vertical card type Mark which pretty much replicates the DG

While the lag happened, I got to inadvertantly cheat since it's mounted
high up on my windscreen.

Of course, I couldn't be obvious that I could see below my hood while cross
checking my headings :-)

All my instructors and my DE did let me use the GPS ground track as a cross
check during partial panels as I used the NAV page of the GPS rather then
the map.

Allen

[Jose[_1_]]

> Kinda have to agree with you Jose. In my instrument training, I never
> missed the AI when instruments "failed".

More to the point, with the AI tumbled, it still didn't bother me (at
least in the sim). Never been IMC for real with a tumbled AI though.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Todd W. Deckard]

"Bonehenge" > wrote in message >
> I'm not a CFI, but carry a pair of them [instrument covers] in my bag for
> just such an
> occasion.
>
Excellent advice! I would suggest planting them in a very accessible
location if your by yourself. If you have to
turn to root around briefly in the back seat the head motion might lead to
vertigo. I use post-its to make small notes
on the clipboard and they suffice nicely if you scrunch one into the
instrument recess.

I'd still like to float the question about the oil smell and the difference
between a "wet" and a "dry" vacuum pump.

Todd

[Newps]

Todd W. Deckard wrote:

>
> I'd still like to float the question about the oil smell and the difference
> between a "wet" and a "dry" vacuum pump.

Wet pump....Uses engine oil to cool the pump. Typically lasts thousands
of hours between overhauls. Does not slowly deteriorate to cool itself.
Potential exists to pump all the engine oil overboard if the pump fails.
Dry Pump... Uses the wear of the vanes to lubricate itself thus
guaranteeing a failure well before a wet pump. Cleaner, because it
doesn't use engine oil in any way it does not emit a fine mist of oil
onto the belly.
Both pumps are easily overhauled. Dry pumps get very hot during normal
operation thus contributing to failure. Wet pumps are much cooler due
to the oil.

[Roger[_4_]]

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 20:55:20 -0700, Newps > wrote:

>
>
>Todd W. Deckard wrote:
>
>>
>> I'd still like to float the question about the oil smell and the difference
>> between a "wet" and a "dry" vacuum pump.
>
>Wet pump....Uses engine oil to cool the pump. Typically lasts thousands
>of hours between overhauls. Does not slowly deteriorate to cool itself.
> Potential exists to pump all the engine oil overboard if the pump fails.
>Dry Pump... Uses the wear of the vanes to lubricate itself thus
>guaranteeing a failure well before a wet pump. Cleaner, because it
>doesn't use engine oil in any way it does not emit a fine mist of oil
>onto the belly.

Mine has nearly 4000 hours on it and it's still going strong. You can
always drain that oil mist back into the crank case. With 25 hour oil
changes mine is down well less than a pint. The last time I had to add
oil between changes was during break in.

>Both pumps are easily overhauled. Dry pumps get very hot during normal
>operation thus contributing to failure. Wet pumps are much cooler due
>to the oil.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger[_4_]]

On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 22:20:34 -0600, "mbremer216"
> wrote:

>On my way to visit relatives for X-mas. Flying from Northwest Indiana to
>Savannah, GA in a Cherokee 180. Itching to put my recently earned IFR
>ticket to work. Climbed out of my home field on Christmas Eve after the
>risk of freezing fog had thawed. Up through a light cloud level at 2500 for
>my first fuel stop at KLEX. Solid layer 2000 thick and an ILS down to 900'
>and 5 miles - magic! Stop to fill the plane's tanks and empty mine.
>Cleared through the layer and over the mountains. The cloud layer slipped
>away behind me and nothing but clear sky and the mountains ahead. ATC
>cleared to climb to 9000 for terrain and radar coverage.
>
>Passing through 7500. Southeast bound past the London VOR. A whiff of oil
>smell in the cockpit that passed as quickly as it came. Then, the suction
>needle drops from it's usual 5.0 to nothing at all. What a revolting
>development! Being in VFR conditions, a diversion to KTRI for help.
>
>Mechanic confirmed that the vac pump had given up the ghost. Seized tighter
>than dicks hat band. By now it was getting toward dark so continuing on
>with a replacement didn't seem very attractive. Got it fixed the next day,
>but freezing conditions and nasty winds kept us holed up in a motel room in
>Kingsport, TN for Christmas. Nothing like Doritos and Snausages for
>Christmas dinner while I explained to my wife how it's not the destination
>but the trip that counts.
>
>She said that I should enjoy my new vacuum pump for Christmas!!!

Ahhhh... The world of small plane IFR<:-))
My Deb is "flight in known icing *conditions* prohibited.


>
>Mike
>
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger[_4_]]

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 23:04:11 GMT, Jose >
wrote:

>> Kinda have to agree with you Jose. In my instrument training, I never
>> missed the AI when instruments "failed".
>
>More to the point, with the AI tumbled, it still didn't bother me (at
>least in the sim). Never been IMC for real with a tumbled AI though.

Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing. One of
the warnings is when you feel a bit of vertigo, or disorientation.


>
>Jose
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Jose[_1_]]

> Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
> end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
> side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing.

That's what I've been told, and it may be different in a real airplane.
However, I was quite surprised that in the sim, I did not get any of
that. I found it trivial to ignore it. However, I did find myself
steering to the dead DG. What are other pilot's experiences with a
visible failed AI in a (non-motion) sim, and in a real airplane?

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[John R. Copeland]

"Jose" > wrote in message t...
>> Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
>> end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
>> side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing.
>
> That's what I've been told, and it may be different in a real airplane.
> However, I was quite surprised that in the sim, I did not get any of
> that. I found it trivial to ignore it. However, I did find myself
> steering to the dead DG. What are other pilot's experiences with a
> visible failed AI in a (non-motion) sim, and in a real airplane?
>
> Jose
>
Some years ago, the AI in my Flight Director began to roll over
as I was being vectored to an ILS approach into Salt Lake City.
I thought I could ignore it by using the copilot's AI instead. Wrong!
That was very difficult to do, and if I hadn't broken out of clouds
about halfway down the ILS course, I'd probably have gone missed.
It's much better to cover the failed display if you plan to disregard it.

[Jose[_1_]]

> Some years ago, the AI in my Flight Director began to roll over
> as I was being vectored to an ILS approach into Salt Lake City.
> I thought I could ignore it by using the copilot's AI instead. Wrong!

Thanks. How did it go? (did you not include the copilot's AI in the
scan sufficiently? Did the tumbled AI keep grabbing your eyeballs?)

> It's much better to cover the failed display if you plan to disregard it.

I wholeheartedly agree. I just found it odd that, in myself, the DG was
harder to ignore than the AI.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[John R. Copeland]

"Jose" > wrote in message et...
>> Some years ago, the AI in my Flight Director began to roll over
>> as I was being vectored to an ILS approach into Salt Lake City.
>> I thought I could ignore it by using the copilot's AI instead. Wrong!
>
> Thanks. How did it go? (did you not include the copilot's AI in the
> scan sufficiently? Did the tumbled AI keep grabbing your eyeballs?)
>
>> It's much better to cover the failed display if you plan to disregard it.
>
> I wholeheartedly agree. I just found it odd that, in myself, the DG was
> harder to ignore than the AI.
>
> Jose
> --
At the time, I *thought* I was including the copilot's AI in my scan OK,
but I'd say the subliminal message of the tilted Flight Director was strong,
and I kept "correcting" by it without realizing I was doing so.
The habit pattern of following the Flight Director probably overcame
the conscious intent of following the copilot's instrument.

[Jose[_1_]]

> The habit pattern of following the Flight Director probably overcame

Oh.. you got one of them things. I just have a black and blue ball with
lines on it.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[John R. Copeland]

"Jose" > wrote in message t...
>> The habit pattern of following the Flight Director probably overcame
>
> Oh.. you got one of them things. I just have a black and blue ball with
> lines on it.
>
> Jose
> --

Yep, *one* of them things is correct.
My copilot's side has a "black and blue ball with lines on it". :-)
I can tell you, Flight Directors are very much nicer.

[Jose[_1_]]

> I can tell you, Flight Directors are very much nicer.

Nah, they take the fun out of instrument flying. :)

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jim Macklin]

Not really.


"Jose" > wrote in message
. net...
|> I can tell you, Flight Directors are very much nicer.
|
| Nah, they take the fun out of instrument flying. :)
|
| Jose
| --
| He who laughs, lasts.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Roger[_4_]]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:34:54 -0500, Jose >
wrote:

>> Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
>> end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
>> side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing.
>
>That's what I've been told, and it may be different in a real airplane.
> However, I was quite surprised that in the sim, I did not get any of
>that. I found it trivial to ignore it. However, I did find myself
>steering to the dead DG. What are other pilot's experiences with a
>visible failed AI in a (non-motion) sim, and in a real airplane?

It's probably due to three things, maybe more. One is the sense of
motion, but I think the much higher work load, and much higher mental
workload really make the difference. When under real pressure we tend
to revert to training and only a few hundred hours of following the AI
followed by an unexpected change to Partial panel leaves the pilot
with some conditioning that is extremely difficult to ignore.
>
>Jose
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger[_4_]]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:39:19 GMT, Bonehenge
> wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:47:47 -0500, Jose >
>wrote:
>
>>I wholeheartedly agree. I just found it odd that, in myself, the DG was
>>harder to ignore than the AI.
>
>The DG is very hard to ignore, even when you realize you forgot to set
>it on the ground.
>
>Or so I've heard... <G>
Yah, That call from ATC asking if you forgot to set your DG is kinda
embarresing...or so I've heard. <:-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Don Poitras]

mbremer216 > wrote:
> On my way to visit relatives for X-mas. Flying from Northwest Indiana to
> Savannah, GA in a Cherokee 180. Itching to put my recently earned IFR
> ticket to work. Climbed out of my home field on Christmas Eve after the
> risk of freezing fog had thawed. Up through a light cloud level at 2500 for
> my first fuel stop at KLEX. Solid layer 2000 thick and an ILS down to 900'
> and 5 miles - magic! Stop to fill the plane's tanks and empty mine.
> Cleared through the layer and over the mountains. The cloud layer slipped
> away behind me and nothing but clear sky and the mountains ahead. ATC
> cleared to climb to 9000 for terrain and radar coverage.

> Passing through 7500. Southeast bound past the London VOR. A whiff of oil
> smell in the cockpit that passed as quickly as it came. Then, the suction
> needle drops from it's usual 5.0 to nothing at all. What a revolting
> development! Being in VFR conditions, a diversion to KTRI for help.

> Mechanic confirmed that the vac pump had given up the ghost. Seized tighter
> than dicks hat band. By now it was getting toward dark so continuing on
> with a replacement didn't seem very attractive. Got it fixed the next day,
> but freezing conditions and nasty winds kept us holed up in a motel room in
> Kingsport, TN for Christmas. Nothing like Doritos and Snausages for
> Christmas dinner while I explained to my wife how it's not the destination
> but the trip that counts.

> She said that I should enjoy my new vacuum pump for Christmas!!!

> Mike

I wonder if there's a Christmas curse on vacuum pumps? Mine failed going
to St. Louis from Raleigh 2 days after Christmas (Although Christmas was
worse, the next day was still pretty icy. The Raleigh recorded weather told
of a Bonanza pilot with heavy rime ice, couldn't hold altitude, diverted
to Nashville.) Mine also failed VMC and when I reported the failure to ATC
they were sympathetic and passed the info on to each controller I encountered.
Mechanic in St. Louis was able to find a new pump and get it replaced in
an hour. What a pleasant outcome. Yes, I used post-it notes. :)

--
Don Poitras

[Jose[_1_]]

> When under real pressure we tend
> to revert to training and only a few hundred hours of following the AI

Maybe then it's because I don't usually follow the AI. I use the TC,
altimeter, and DG as primary. Just a thought.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jackal24]

(Don Poitras) wrote in
:


> I wonder if there's a Christmas curse on vacuum pumps?

Or at least a holiday curse. I just lost one flying a Cessna 207 on New
Years Eve. (yesterday). VFR though, so no big deal, but even VFR, it still
drove me bonkers every time I glanced down.

[Roger[_4_]]

On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 05:09:25 -0000, Jackal24 > wrote:

(Don Poitras) wrote in
:
>
>
>> I wonder if there's a Christmas curse on vacuum pumps?
>
>Or at least a holiday curse. I just lost one flying a Cessna 207 on New
>Years Eve. (yesterday). VFR though, so no big deal, but even VFR, it still
>drove me bonkers every time I glanced down.

Un-nerving isn't it. I had an AI fail on take off no less. Now that
would have been scary had I been taking off into minimums.
Fortunately, like you I was VFR at the time.

Roger (Wet pumps for ever)Halstead
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Pixel Dent]

In article >,
Jose > wrote:

> > Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
> > end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
> > side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing.
>
> That's what I've been told, and it may be different in a real airplane.
> However, I was quite surprised that in the sim, I did not get any of
> that. I found it trivial to ignore it. However, I did find myself
> steering to the dead DG. What are other pilot's experiences with a
> visible failed AI in a (non-motion) sim, and in a real airplane?
>
> Jose

Last summer I had my vacuum fail in IMC over a 200' ceiling. Added some
excitement to an otherwise boring day.

My experience was similar to yours. While I was in IMC, I had no problem
ignoring the AI but I had to cover the DG so I wouldn't keep looking at
it. It was really annoying having to take my eyes off the instruments to
look up at the compass which is mounted just about on the ceiling of my
plane.

The funny thing is after I landed and the weather cleared up I flew
another 1/2 hour flight in VMC to get to a field where they could
replace the vacuum pump. During that flight for some reason I kept
finding myself "noticing" the AI and had to keep telling myself, "Just
look out the window and stop following the AI, idiot."