IFR through Florida - airways?

[Peter R.]

Due to a business meeting, I will be flying from NY to Miami, Florida in a
few weeks.

In looking over the en route charts, I see a lot of MOAs, restricted, and
prohibited airspaces throughout Florida. Also, my destination is
Kendall-Tamiami (KTMB), which is just southwest of Miami International and
below their Class B.

It appears that the most likely option is to plan and file airways/VORs
through central and western Florida, with the idea of arriving into TMB
from the west and ask for direct as I am flying, rather than filing direct.

Could anyone with Florida IFR experience share your thoughts on IFR flight
through Florida? Thanks.

--
Peter

[john smith]

Peter R. wrote:

>Due to a business meeting, I will be flying from NY to Miami, Florida in a
>few weeks.
>
>In looking over the en route charts, I see a lot of MOAs, restricted, and
>prohibited airspaces throughout Florida. Also, my destination is
>Kendall-Tamiami (KTMB), which is just southwest of Miami International and
>below their Class B.
>
>It appears that the most likely option is to plan and file airways/VORs
>through central and western Florida, with the idea of arriving into TMB
>from the west and ask for direct as I am flying, rather than filing direct.
>
>Could anyone with Florida IFR experience share your thoughts on IFR flight
>through Florida? Thanks.
>
>
>
If you are planning on flying down the east coast, from the GA-FL border
to Vero Beach, expect a reroute around JAX airspace to the west (I call
it the Central Florida Tour) unless you can fly above 12,000.

[Peter R.]

john smith > wrote:

> If you are planning on flying down the east coast, from the GA-FL border
> to Vero Beach, expect a reroute around JAX airspace to the west (I call
> it the Central Florida Tour) unless you can fly above 12,000.

Thanks. I do have the capabilities to fly above 12k if need be. My
concern about coming down the east coast is that what happens upon reaching
Miami class B. I would expect a lot of vectoring out of the way there.

--
Peter

[Patrick Mayer]

I've been flying there once. Filed down the east coast, although there was a
Shuttle landing at that day and the airspace was supposed to be closed until
around my crossing time there.

Got cleared as filed, waited for the rerouting - which didn't come. I ended
up flying just next to Cape Canaveral with the Shuttle still parked on the
runway... beautiful sight!!

My understanding is, if you file "direct", you'll most likely get a reroute.
Any other experiences out there?

Happy flying,
Patrick


"john smith" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> Peter R. wrote:
>
>>Due to a business meeting, I will be flying from NY to Miami, Florida in a
>>few weeks.
>>
>>In looking over the en route charts, I see a lot of MOAs, restricted, and
>>prohibited airspaces throughout Florida. Also, my destination is
>>Kendall-Tamiami (KTMB), which is just southwest of Miami International and
>>below their Class B.
>>
>>It appears that the most likely option is to plan and file airways/VORs
>>through central and western Florida, with the idea of arriving into TMB
>>from the west and ask for direct as I am flying, rather than filing
>>direct.
>>
>>Could anyone with Florida IFR experience share your thoughts on IFR flight
>>through Florida? Thanks.
>>
>>
> If you are planning on flying down the east coast, from the GA-FL border
> to Vero Beach, expect a reroute around JAX airspace to the west (I call it
> the Central Florida Tour) unless you can fly above 12,000.
>

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

john smith wrote:
> If you are planning on flying down the east coast, from the GA-FL border
> to Vero Beach, expect a reroute around JAX airspace to the west (I call
> it the Central Florida Tour) unless you can fly above 12,000.


You can't get V-437 any more? I used to run down the coast that way before I
cut over to the Bahamas from Vero Beach.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Kobra]

I flew to Miami from NJ and used V1 almost all the way to Jacksonville.

Kobra


"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Due to a business meeting, I will be flying from NY to Miami, Florida in a
> few weeks.
>
> In looking over the en route charts, I see a lot of MOAs, restricted, and
> prohibited airspaces throughout Florida. Also, my destination is
> Kendall-Tamiami (KTMB), which is just southwest of Miami International and
> below their Class B.
>
> It appears that the most likely option is to plan and file airways/VORs
> through central and western Florida, with the idea of arriving into TMB
> from the west and ask for direct as I am flying, rather than filing
> direct.
>
> Could anyone with Florida IFR experience share your thoughts on IFR flight
> through Florida? Thanks.
>
> --
> Peter

[Peter R.]

On 1/5/2007 10:30:51 PM, "Kobra" wrote:

>I flew to Miami from NJ and used V1 almost all the way to Jacksonville.

Thanks for your input. I'd imagine that would be a very scenic flight.

However, Jacksonville is in northeast Florida and my question really
pertained to flying IFR deeper into Florida. If you'll notice on the charts,
both north and south of Orlando you will see many restricted and prohibited
airspaces. The most direct route from Jacksonville to Miami is peppered with
light GA IFR-unfriendly airspace. :)


--
Peter

[Jay Beckman]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> On 1/5/2007 10:30:51 PM, "Kobra" wrote:
>
>>I flew to Miami from NJ and used V1 almost all the way to Jacksonville.
>
> Thanks for your input. I'd imagine that would be a very scenic flight.
>
> However, Jacksonville is in northeast Florida and my question really
> pertained to flying IFR deeper into Florida. If you'll notice on the
> charts,
> both north and south of Orlando you will see many restricted and
> prohibited
> airspaces. The most direct route from Jacksonville to Miami is peppered
> with
> light GA IFR-unfriendly airspace. :)
>
>
> --
> Peter

What are the floors and/or ceilings for said airspaces?

We've got our fair share of red/blue boxes out here in AZ but most don't
come low enough to be a hassle (I do *not* have the ability to fly above
12k...)

;O)

Jay B

[Rich]

I've filed direct through Florida, and gotten it.

I have run into problems when I've tried changing routing in flight.
ATC accommodated me, but it was apparent that they were handling a lot
of traffic and the re-route used up a lot of their scarce time. Gave me
a lot of airways and waypoints. I'd recommend filing the way you want
to go.

Lots of airplanes crammed into a small space.

Rich

Patrick Mayer wrote:
> I've been flying there once. Filed down the east coast, although there was a
> Shuttle landing at that day and the airspace was supposed to be closed until
> around my crossing time there.
>
> Got cleared as filed, waited for the rerouting - which didn't come. I ended
> up flying just next to Cape Canaveral with the Shuttle still parked on the
> runway... beautiful sight!!
>
> My understanding is, if you file "direct", you'll most likely get a reroute.
> Any other experiences out there?
>
> Happy flying,
> Patrick
>

[Jim[_11_]]

I flew down to Fort Lauderdale from WI in September. I weaved through most
of the SUA by useing Cross City as my jumping off (into?) point. It worked
very well. I realize KCTY is on the west side of FL, but it may be an
option for you.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N6205Y/history/20060916/1231Z/KCTY/KFXE

Jim

[Peter R.]

Jim > wrote:

> I flew down to Fort Lauderdale from WI in September. I weaved through most
> of the SUA by useing Cross City as my jumping off (into?) point. It worked
> very well. I realize KCTY is on the west side of FL, but it may be an
> option for you.
> http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N6205Y/history/20060916/1231Z/KCTY/KFXE

Yep, that is what I am thinking as well. Your flight is similar to what I
am planning now:

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/302/01062007115437dc8.jpg

--
Peter

[Peter R.]

Jay Beckman > wrote:

> What are the floors and/or ceilings for said airspaces?

Many of the Florida SUAs go all the way up to 17,999, so going over them is
not really an option for me either. It looks as if I will cross over the
center of the state and then weave towards the western-central portion, as
you can see in the other link I posted.

> We've got our fair share of red/blue boxes out here in AZ but most don't
> come low enough to be a hassle (I do *not* have the ability to fly above
> 12k...)

I remember those! Two years ago I flew to Palm Springs and recall having
to weave my way around all that special airspace out there.


--
Peter

[john smith]

Peter R. wrote:

>Jay Beckman > wrote:
>
>
>
>>What are the floors and/or ceilings for said airspaces?
>>
>>
>
>Many of the Florida SUAs go all the way up to 17,999, so going over them is
>not really an option for me either. It looks as if I will cross over the
>center of the state and then weave towards the western-central portion, as
>you can see in the other link I posted.
>
>


If you fly on the weekends, most of the military SUA is not active.
If you fly M-F, expect to be vectored/routed around the military SUA.

When I flew to KPBI from Central Ohio last April, I flew from Albany GA
to Lakeland to West Palm, unrestricted at 7,000. That was on a Saturday.
When I departed, I had filed for the same routing. I was given an
amended clearance which had me fly directly west to Naples before
turning north. The military airspace was active. This was on a Thursday
afternoon.

[Peter R.]

john smith > wrote:

> If you fly on the weekends, most of the military SUA is not active.
> If you fly M-F, expect to be vectored/routed around the military SUA.

My plan at this point, weather and maintenance willing, is to fly down on
Thursday afternoon/evening, then return home on Saturday afternoon.

--
Peter

[Jim Burns]

Depending on your fuel range, you should check 100LL.com for best fuel
prices. It saved us a ton of $. Cross City offers $0.25 per gallon off
every Saturday morning 7am-1pm.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KCTY/DIXIE_AV_SVCS

Jim

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Jim > wrote:
>
>> I flew down to Fort Lauderdale from WI in September. I weaved through
>> most
>> of the SUA by useing Cross City as my jumping off (into?) point. It
>> worked
>> very well. I realize KCTY is on the west side of FL, but it may be an
>> option for you.
>> http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N6205Y/history/20060916/1231Z/KCTY/KFXE
>
> Yep, that is what I am thinking as well. Your flight is similar to what I
> am planning now:
>
> http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/302/01062007115437dc8.jpg
>
> --
> Peter

[Peter R.]

Jim Burns > wrote:

> Depending on your fuel range, you should check 100LL.com for best fuel
> prices. It saved us a ton of $. Cross City offers $0.25 per gallon off
> every Saturday morning 7am-1pm.
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KCTY/DIXIE_AV_SVCS

Thanks for that. I normally make it a point to check Airnav.com. I had
never heard of 100ll.com until you mentioned it. Do you find the
information there more timely and accurate than Airnav?

--
Peter

[Jim[_11_]]

I use both Airnav and 100LL.com. In the past I've found that 100LL is
usually more timely.
Jim

[Maule Driver]

I fly Raleigh to south FL several times a year. My experience is to
always file and open an IFR plan independent of the weather. I'm direct
except for FL where most of the time you will be routed on the airways.
I choose a efficient altitude based on wind and TAS and whatever. Then
I enjoy the fact that I will be routed around busy SUA and separated
from much of the traffic.

Florida is usually convective and FL ATC, especially JAX center, will
give you the best avoidance service you've ever had. My 396 has reduced
my dependence and increased my capability, but they are still the best.

Flying IFR, especially in south FL, eliminates much of the airspace
avoidance work. But there's lots of vfr traffic even if you are busting
clouds so keep you head up. And if you are not familiar with the area,
be careful about IDing the airports. There are lots of them, they all
look alike to us northerners and I'm sure I'm the only person that has a
problem picking the right one at times.

Wish I was coming too.

Peter R. wrote:
> Due to a business meeting, I will be flying from NY to Miami, Florida in a
> few weeks.
>
> In looking over the en route charts, I see a lot of MOAs, restricted, and
> prohibited airspaces throughout Florida. Also, my destination is
> Kendall-Tamiami (KTMB), which is just southwest of Miami International and
> below their Class B.
>
> It appears that the most likely option is to plan and file airways/VORs
> through central and western Florida, with the idea of arriving into TMB
> from the west and ask for direct as I am flying, rather than filing direct.
>
> Could anyone with Florida IFR experience share your thoughts on IFR flight
> through Florida? Thanks.
>

[Peter R.]

Maule Driver > wrote:

> Flying IFR, especially in south FL, eliminates much of the airspace
> avoidance work. But there's lots of vfr traffic even if you are busting
> clouds so keep you head up. And if you are not familiar with the area,
> be careful about IDing the airports. There are lots of them, they all
> look alike to us northerners and I'm sure I'm the only person that has a
> problem picking the right one at times.

Thanks for providing your hands-on experience. My plan is to definitely go
IFR and perhaps even fly an approach into Tiamiami, to guarantee proper
alignment with the correct airport, given that I will be arriving at night.

> Wish I was coming too.

I am landing in Hickory, NC, to have an early dinner with my mother and to
refuel Thursday afternoon. If you are there you can hop a ride down with
me that evening. :)

--
Peter

[L. R. Du Broff]

In article >,
"Peter R." > wrote:

> john smith > wrote:
>
> > If you are planning on flying down the east coast, from the GA-FL border
> > to Vero Beach, expect a reroute around JAX airspace to the west (I call
> > it the Central Florida Tour) unless you can fly above 12,000.
>
I have lived in the Orlando area for > 20 years, and done lots of IFR up
and down the east coast. Never been re-routed west around JAX. Be
aware of the submarine pen at St. Marys, GA -- was TFR, I think it's now
Prohibited.

Another thing, re altitudes. IFR up and down the east coast will
usually be assigned even thousands southbound and odd thousands
northbound. When on the airways, this frequently goes against the
odd-east / even-west that is standard.

OP was from NY area. If you can handle IFR there (I got initial
training at Colts Neck, many years ago), Florida won't have any nasty
surprises for you. St. Augustine has a decent restaurant at the FBO;
fuel prices at the city-operated self-serve (base of the tower) are
frequently much better than at the FBO. Another well-kept secret for
fuel on the north-south route is Baxley GA (BHC). Good-sized runway,
IFR approaches, reasonable fuel prices, nice people at the FBO. Van
available at no charge for food run into town. Call ahead and they will
tell you where they leave van keys if you're arriving when FBO not
attended. Keypad to let you into FBO during unattended times, just key
in the UNICOM frequency to unlock the door.

[Peter R.]

On 1/15/2007 9:37:17 PM, "L. R. Du Broff" wrote:

> OP was from NY area. If you can handle IFR there (I got initial
> training at Colts Neck, many years ago), Florida won't have any nasty
> surprises for you.

Thanks, L.R.

I returned from the trip last night. IFR down to Miami on Thursday and back
on Saturday evening. Total hours down with one fuel stop was 8 hours, thanks
to some moderate and stronger than forecasted headwinds. Return trip was an
hour and a half shorter, with lighter headwinds.

Lesson learned the hard way: All the FBOs at Tamiami airport in Miami closes
up tighter than a government office on a holiday after 9:30pm during the
week. Unbelievable that during the two phone conversations I had with
Reliance there about my arrival time (planned on arriving at 8:30p), the
clerks there failed to mention the severity of arriving after they close. I
am just as guilty for ASSuming that they would be open, given that the
airport serves a major US city.

In any case, I sat outside the airport for an hour and a half until a cab
came by that I could hire to take me to my meeting location. That was a very
miserable experience.

Another aviation bad memory for me to log, or as some would say, an adventure
worth telling. :)



--
Peter

[Matt Barrow]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...

> Lesson learned the hard way: All the FBOs at Tamiami airport in Miami
> closes
> up tighter than a government office on a holiday after 9:30pm during the
> week. Unbelievable that during the two phone conversations I had with
> Reliance there about my arrival time (planned on arriving at 8:30p), the
> clerks there failed to mention the severity of arriving after they close.
> I
> am just as guilty for ASSuming that they would be open, given that the
> airport serves a major US city.
>
> In any case, I sat outside the airport for an hour and a half until a cab
> came by that I could hire to take me to my meeting location. That was a
> very
> miserable experience.

Sounds like when I flew into Heathrow after 10:00PM. Place was like a tomb.