Vista64 experience with Jeppesen, Garmin, and FSX

[Ron A.]

Here is my experience with the release version of Vista64 Ultimate so far as
it relates to Jeppesen, FSX and also Garmin. Vista is available as a
developer's subscription on Microsoft's MSDN right now.

I downloaded Vista64 Ultimate from MSDN and installed it on a new machine I
built. My old XP Pro machine bit the dust and I wasn't going to install XP
again just to have to upgrade 12 months later. Nothing fancy, Core2Duo
6300, Intel 965 chipset m/b, GeForce 7900, 2gig ram. I support 16 bit
programs by running XP Pro in Virtual PC 2007 from Microsoft (free, it also
supports Win2000, Win98, DOS and others). New motherboards seem to have
only 2 pci slots. So that means everything is going to USB (Vista weakness
at this point).

Unfortunately, Jeppesen's card programmer is USB and not compatible with
Vista. They said they don't know when they will get around to it. Now I
thought I could cheat and run it in XP Pro in the Virtual PC but guess what,
Virtual PC doesn't support USB ports. I also need a serial port to update
databases and read tracks on my handheld Garmin 196. Better hope you have a
serial port on your motherboard. There are no USB serial port converter
drivers for Vista yet either. My motherboard has a header for a serial port
and it works but my case doesn't have a blank for it so the times I need it
I will have to take the front cover off the case or drill a hole for a
serial cable extender.

FSX seems to run fine, I haven't re-installed FS9. I like FSX because it
includes the Garmin 1000 simulator and also includes the Garmin 500 series
GPS. They don't completely function true to the real things but they are a
big improvement from FS9 without add-ons. When flying an approach I don't
get good distance information during the full approach from the IAF to the
FAF. Also I hate that I don't get fractional miles to a WP when I am flying
an approach. It would be nice to know whether I am .2 mile or .9 mile from
a fix. It also doesn't fly the missed approach like the standalone Garmin
simulators. The scenery seems better.

There are no scanner or printer drivers from HP yet on their website. My
Deskjet seems to work ok, but my HP Laserjet is only supported at a generic
level. So the laserjet prints pretty good but I can't share it with my
Virtual XP Pro host yet. The scanner is dead until HP comes out with a
driver (Scanjet 5500c). I can capture the printer port (ala DOS) in XP Pro
within Virtual PC and it does print.

Vista64 seems alright otherwise. It just doesn't support 16 bit installers
and programs withouth Virtual PC and funny devices yet. I remember going
through this with XP. My USB joystick works, external USB drives work
(including key fobs). Memory card readers work, My Canon camera software
works, my Garmin MapSource works. My Garmin USB MapSource datacard
programmer for my Garmin 196 does NOT work. I don't have any USB rudder or
Yoke, just the old Elite serial devices gathering dust.

If you get the Business or Ultimate version you get Remote Desktop and
Shadow Copying and also backup software for image and timed incremental
backups. The shadow copying is nice because you can right click and revert
to multiple previous versions on any kind of file. It handles photos much
more nicely also. Nero requires version 7.5 something.

Jeppesen isn't very customer driven, so who knows when they will get this
done. I remember the big wait to support USB from them and Windows. There
is no excuse why they can't have planned for a long known Vista release.
Vista64 appears to run any legitimate 32 bit program as long as the device
drivers have an "approved" digital signature from Microsoft (kind of like
the padlock icon for secure web pages requiring registration with an
Internet authority if you host a website).


Ron A.

[Sam Spade]

The trials and tribulations of an early adapter!

By the way, FS9 has the same putred Garmin 500 as does X.

The Reality XP add-on of the Garmin 500 trainer and Sandel HSI is the
only way to go.

Hopefully, Realisy XP will adapt the Garmin 500W trainer and perhaps the
G-1000 trainer to both FS9 and X.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Sam Spade wrote:
> The trials and tribulations of an early adapter!
>
> By the way, FS9 has the same putred Garmin 500 as does X.
>
> The Reality XP add-on of the Garmin 500 trainer and Sandel HSI is the
> only way to go.
>
> Hopefully, Realisy XP will adapt the Garmin 500W trainer and perhaps
> the G-1000 trainer to both FS9 and X.

If you are an AOPA member down load the Cherokee Six sim. It's got a Sandel
HSI, 430 and 530 in it. I just downloaded it this weekend and havn't had
time to play with it yet though.

[Bill Denton]

Could you post a link to the download?

I'm an AOPA member but I couldn't find the download.

Thanks...


"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
...
> Sam Spade wrote:
> > The trials and tribulations of an early adapter!
> >
> > By the way, FS9 has the same putred Garmin 500 as does X.
> >
> > The Reality XP add-on of the Garmin 500 trainer and Sandel HSI is the
> > only way to go.
> >
> > Hopefully, Realisy XP will adapt the Garmin 500W trainer and perhaps
> > the G-1000 trainer to both FS9 and X.
>
> If you are an AOPA member down load the Cherokee Six sim. It's got a
Sandel
> HSI, 430 and 530 in it. I just downloaded it this weekend and havn't had
> time to play with it yet though.
>
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Bill Denton wrote:
> Could you post a link to the download?
>
> I'm an AOPA member but I couldn't find the download.
>
> Thanks...
>

http://www.aopa.org/members/sweeps/fly/

[john smith]

Ron A. wrote:

> Unfortunately, Jeppesen's card programmer is USB and not compatible
> with Vista. They said they don't know when they will get around to
> it. Now I thought I could cheat and run it in XP Pro in the Virtual
> PC but guess what, Virtual PC doesn't support USB ports. I also need
> a serial port to update databases and read tracks on my handheld
> Garmin 196. Better hope you have a serial port on your motherboard.
> There are no USB serial port converter drivers for Vista yet either.
> My motherboard has a header for a serial port and it works but my case
> doesn't have a blank for it so the times I need it I will have to take
> the front cover off the case or drill a hole for a serial cable extender.

Go to

grc.com/securitynow.htm

Download the program notes from the virtualization programs.
I do not recall whichvirtual software program this was noted in, but
there was a specific reference to how to turn on support for USB in the
virtual software. It is off by default.

[Ron A.]

John,

Thanks, I will try that! I believe Jeppesen's driver downloads firmware to
the unit each time it is used. Device manager in MS Vista would cycle
showing it as present, and then not present every 1/2 second. So I never
got a chance to try the driver. Jeppesen's JSUM software for Skybound does
install. It just can't do anything with the Skybound USB adapter
afterwards. It lets me login and I would guess download an update when it
becomes available. It is correctly showing the status of my previous cycle
downloads.

I have read that VMware's virtual manager supports USB also, but it requires
between $100-$200 to buy depending on which version you get.

MS's Virtual PC seems to have good support for XP Pro except for USB. I
have been able to download all of their security fixes and install
anti-virus. It even processes login scripts to the network.

For now, if the GRC doc doesn't fix it, I will delay upgrading my work PC
until Jeppesen fixes it

I'm not sure how soon I will get support from Garmin on their USB data card
programmer. I think they have had a better track record. For now it just
means I can't change the Street maps regions in the Auto Kit memory card. I
guess I could take that to work also. Even though MapSource is copy
protected to your Garmin GPS unit #, it did let me locate my unlock file
from my old hard drive and it functions fine.

AOPA flight planner works fine also.

Thanks,

Ron


"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> Ron A. wrote:

> grc.com/securitynow.htm
>
> Download the program notes from the virtualization programs.
> I do not recall whichvirtual software program this was noted in, but there
> was a specific reference to how to turn on support for USB in the virtual
> software. It is off by default.
>

[Scott Skylane]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

> If you are an AOPA member down load the Cherokee Six sim. It's got a Sandel
> HSI, 430 and 530 in it. I just downloaded it this weekend and havn't had
> time to play with it yet though.
>
>

Caution, that panel is a *major* frame-rate hog!

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

[Sam Spade]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> Sam Spade wrote:
>
>>The trials and tribulations of an early adapter!
>>
>>By the way, FS9 has the same putred Garmin 500 as does X.
>>
>>The Reality XP add-on of the Garmin 500 trainer and Sandel HSI is the
>>only way to go.
>>
>>Hopefully, Realisy XP will adapt the Garmin 500W trainer and perhaps
>>the G-1000 trainer to both FS9 and X.
>
>
> If you are an AOPA member down load the Cherokee Six sim. It's got a Sandel
> HSI, 430 and 530 in it. I just downloaded it this weekend and havn't had
> time to play with it yet though.
>
>
But, I already have all that in MSFS 2004 (FS9) and it works on the
entire fleet of airplanes. Plus, I have the Sandel TAWS, which is quite
impressive.

[Roger[_4_]]

On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:34:23 GMT, "Ron A." > wrote:

>Here is my experience with the release version of Vista64 Ultimate so far as
>it relates to Jeppesen, FSX and also Garmin. Vista is available as a
>developer's subscription on Microsoft's MSDN right now.
>
>I downloaded Vista64 Ultimate from MSDN and installed it on a new machine I
>built. My old XP Pro machine bit the dust and I wasn't going to install XP
>again just to have to upgrade 12 months later. Nothing fancy, Core2Duo
>6300, Intel 965 chipset m/b, GeForce 7900, 2gig ram. I support 16 bit
>programs by running XP Pro in Virtual PC 2007 from Microsoft (free, it also
>supports Win2000, Win98, DOS and others). New motherboards seem to have
>only 2 pci slots. So that means everything is going to USB (Vista weakness
>at this point).
>
>Unfortunately, Jeppesen's card programmer is USB and not compatible with
>Vista. They said they don't know when they will get around to it. Now I

They are nuts if they change it as the vast majority will still be
using USB. Since the coming of XP which is the predominant OS most
motherboards and systems talk to the rest of the world through USB
although some still have a single serial port. and a firewire
connection.

If Garmin changes from USB they will have more customers unable to
update than what Vista is causing. I think though you are referring
to the lack of drivers.

I would assume they still support printers through USB as that is
where most of them reside as well.

>thought I could cheat and run it in XP Pro in the Virtual PC but guess what,
>Virtual PC doesn't support USB ports. I also need a serial port to update
>databases and read tracks on my handheld Garmin 196. Better hope you have a
>serial port on your motherboard. There are no USB serial port converter
>drivers for Vista yet either. My motherboard has a header for a serial port
>and it works but my case doesn't have a blank for it so the times I need it
>I will have to take the front cover off the case or drill a hole for a
>serial cable extender.

Front? It should come out the back and there are *inserts* of all
configurations to fit that output opening in back. (if the case is a
standard one) That place where the mother board connectors are located
should just snap out (or in). Drop down to your local computer
builder/repair shop and find out what they have. They should have a
template to fit your motherboard. You would have to move the
motherboard to fit the new template in, but after than you'd have a
serial output showing. If I knew what you need I *might* have one in
the pile *somewhere* out in the shop, I just gave away the last two of
the older motherboards that take up to a 2 Gig Athlon (socket A)
memory and even a 2 Gig Athlon. I even have a pair of good 1.2 Gig 3
1/2" hard drives I'm using for paper weights. Well, they were good
before I started using them for paper weights.

>
>FSX seems to run fine, I haven't re-installed FS9. I like FSX because it
>includes the Garmin 1000 simulator and also includes the Garmin 500 series
>GPS. They don't completely function true to the real things but they are a
>big improvement from FS9 without add-ons. When flying an approach I don't
>get good distance information during the full approach from the IAF to the
>FAF. Also I hate that I don't get fractional miles to a WP when I am flying
>an approach. It would be nice to know whether I am .2 mile or .9 mile from
>a fix. It also doesn't fly the missed approach like the standalone Garmin
>simulators. The scenery seems better.
>
>There are no scanner or printer drivers from HP yet on their website. My
>Deskjet seems to work ok, but my HP Laserjet is only supported at a generic
>level. So the laserjet prints pretty good but I can't share it with my
>Virtual XP Pro host yet. The scanner is dead until HP comes out with a
>driver (Scanjet 5500c). I can capture the printer port (ala DOS) in XP Pro
>within Virtual PC and it does print.
>
>Vista64 seems alright otherwise. It just doesn't support 16 bit installers

You aren't running multimedia are you? Ultimate has some real
problems running MS's own stuff let alone third party playback apps.
ZDNet's George Ou http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=402&tag=nl.e539 has a
lot to say about that. Apparently his home entertainment center isn't
doing too well with Vista.

Me? I just purchased two more copies of XP Pro. I'm building up a big
dual core gaming machine, but it's going to be running XP Pro and
LINUX dual boot. If they get the bugs out of FSX I might put Vista on
one machine and set it aside just for running some sims, but that
would be my only plans. Basically

>and programs withouth Virtual PC and funny devices yet. I remember going
>through this with XP. My USB joystick works, external USB drives work
>(including key fobs). Memory card readers work, My Canon camera software
>works, my Garmin MapSource works. My Garmin USB MapSource datacard
>programmer for my Garmin 196 does NOT work. I don't have any USB rudder or
>Yoke, just the old Elite serial devices gathering dust.
>
>If you get the Business or Ultimate version you get Remote Desktop and
>Shadow Copying and also backup software for image and timed incremental
>backups. The shadow copying is nice because you can right click and revert
>to multiple previous versions on any kind of file. It handles photos much
>more nicely also. Nero requires version 7.5 something.
>
>Jeppesen isn't very customer driven, so who knows when they will get this
>done. I remember the big wait to support USB from them and Windows. There
>is no excuse why they can't have planned for a long known Vista release.
>Vista64 appears to run any legitimate 32 bit program as long as the device

There is. Don't blame Garmin yet. MS probably didn't included them as
MS developers and left them on their own. If you aren't on the list
it doesn't matter how long you have known.

>drivers have an "approved" digital signature from Microsoft (kind of like

If they stick with that on device drivers there will be a big problem.
I find that many of my device drivers are not MS approved. For
instance every thing I have works just fine with XP Pro so why should
I change. Particularly when a lot of it wont work with Vista and
particularly with Vista's heavy handed Digital Rights management (DRM)
when used with entertainment centers as I do here.

>the padlock icon for secure web pages requiring registration with an
>Internet authority if you host a website).

That is *supposedly* for financial sites and sites doing business that
require a secure connection and not all sites. If it turns out that
way they'll stir up a hornets nest like they did with the original
proposal for a one time update/move for OEM versions of Vista. The
power users and trade journals were up in arms and MS backed off.

I have two copies of Vista that came with my latest two XP Pro
incarnations (XP Pro and XP Pro 64), or rather they are free upgrades
from XP Pro. I won't be trying those until drivers are more readily
available. Right now I seem to be finding as many or more for LINUX.
Unfortunately I can't run FSX on LINUX nor can I run OnTop, the IFR
sim on LINUX.

>
>
>Ron A.
>
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Ron Natalie]

Roger wrote:

> They are nuts if they change it as the vast majority will still be
> using USB. Since the coming of XP which is the predominant OS most
> motherboards and systems talk to the rest of the world through USB
> although some still have a single serial port. and a firewire
> connection.
>
This is the problem with 430/530's stupid assed proprietary
datacard. The MX20/GNS480/GX200 line uses standard Windows
Filesystem on CF (or SD for the 200) cards. They give you a
standard sandisk programmer with the unit, but the software
knows nothing about it really, it just looks for a removable
file system with the appropriate media/volume id's in the
header. I use the regular CF programmer slot I use for
my digital camera.

[Ron A.]

"Roger" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:34:23 GMT, "Ron A." > wrote:

> They are nuts if they change it as the vast majority will still be
> using USB. Since the coming of XP which is the predominant OS most
> motherboards and systems talk to the rest of the world through USB
> although some still have a single serial port. and a firewire
> connection.

It is apparent that USB and Firewire are still the connections of choice
based on hardware available to purchase. It's just a new OS and the drivers
have to be re-written and aren't available yet. I'm not expecting any
sympathy. It's just what happens when you adopt a completely new OS early.
The drivers will come. I didn't expecte HP to be on the backside of the
curve. Garmin a little. Jeppesen has a big history of being slow.

> Front? It should come out the back and there are *inserts* of all
> configurations to fit that output opening in back. (if the case is a
> standard one)

The blank fits the integrated connectors on the motherboard for the
rectangular opening in the case. The serial port header is on the front of
the board. It is further than the length of even old super-tower case 9 pin
serial ribbon cables. It is entirely a problem based on where Intel put the
serial port header. It is near the memory (the front right corner). I
appreciate your offer though. It wouldn't be an issue for me if I didn't
have to program my handheld GPS. It will fixed soon when USB to Serial port
adapters come with Vista compatible drivers.

> You aren't running multimedia are you?

I have done some video editing with Pinnacle AV over Firewire, but they have
a history of writing such buggy stuff I am going to wait before I try to
install anything of theirs. I use Media Player 11 for my CD library, it
works.

> There is. Don't blame Garmin yet. MS probably didn't included them as
> MS developers and left them on their own. If you aren't on the list
> it doesn't matter how long you have known.

Anyone can be a developer for the price of an MSDN subcription. The digital
certificate for drivers costs additional money and time to satisfy Microsoft
but Garmin is a big business. They will have to pay and do it to sell
product. I guess their track record on WAAS leaves some doubt on how long
it will take. Vista has been available in beta for a long time for testing.
The concept of the certificate is similar to secure web-site registration
but otherwise different. They have to verify the quality of the drivers in
addition to who they are.

> particularly with Vista's heavy handed Digital Rights management (DRM)
> when used with entertainment centers as I do here.

How is that different than Jeppesen making sure you don't copy their
databases? Seems about the same to me, but we have to live with it. Enough
time will pass and the vast majority of people will desire the Media enough
to put up with it. Nobody has been successful boycotting Jeppesen yet to
un-protect their databases.

I just wanted people to be forewarned to help make an educated choice if
they need to update their GPS's.

Ron A.

[John R. Copeland]

"Peter" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> How does Garmin prevent people sharing data on e.g. the MX20/GNS480,
> when the flash cards are standard FAT?

Garmin doesn't.
Jeppesen does it by managing the subscription services.

[John R. Copeland]

"Peter" > wrote in message ...
>
> "John R. Copeland" > wrote
>
>>> How does Garmin prevent people sharing data on e.g. the MX20/GNS480,
>>> when the flash cards are standard FAT?
>>
>>Garmin doesn't.
>>Jeppesen does it by managing the subscription services.
>
> OK, so if a bunch of GNS480 owners get together, they can copy the CF
> data cartridges and share them? That's pretty good - essential here in
> Europe where we pay some USD3000+ for European Jeppview :)

Someone in that bunch will need to be a skilled hacker, though.
There are license keys involved.
Furthermore, the MX20 and GNS480 keys are handled differently.