Airpark lot, things to consider before buying?

[[email protected]]

Howdy,

I'm lucky to have found a lot nearby that has pretty much everything I
want, including 2600 ft. of turf runway. This whole thing has been
carved out of the bush in the past 6 months. Great fishing is just a
stretch of the legs away, and while it is awfully rural, it isn't that
far away from a lovely metropolitain city or the beach.

There is only 5 lots on this airstrip vith varying acreage. One end of
it faces a lake. (Good, not flying directly over anyones house) The
other end is purpendicular to a country road with a small trailer and a
large piece of acreage on the other side. It isn't on the current
sectional. I've chatted briefly with the fellow who built it. There is
only his house on it at this time, and he doesn't have an aircraft
based there. There is no obvious evidence that an aircraft has ever
operated from it. There is a rather large sign aftertising the lots as
"airpark" lots on this little country road, so I imagine the fellar
across the street has at least some understanding of what this large
field is intended for.

However there are a few things burning a hole in the back of my mind
preventing the checkbook from flowing forth. City state and federal
ordinances for one. What constitutes legitimacy for an airpark? I've
heard some horror stories about litigation between the state and
private airstrips. I'm awfully concerned that 5 lots is not enough to
make a good show and Bubba's courthouse-and-saloon.

I'm thinking I need to hire a paralegal to look up any applicable laws
and precedent before buying. I also was thinking of knocking on some
neighbors doors and get an idea what the community thinks about it. I
will of course wear my hip-waders and a cow bell lest I get shot for
rustlin'.

Anybody been through this? Advice?
-Matt

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, " > said:
>However there are a few things burning a hole in the back of my mind
>preventing the checkbook from flowing forth. City state and federal
>ordinances for one. What constitutes legitimacy for an airpark? I've
>heard some horror stories about litigation between the state and
>private airstrips. I'm awfully concerned that 5 lots is not enough to
>make a good show and Bubba's courthouse-and-saloon.
>
>I'm thinking I need to hire a paralegal to look up any applicable laws
>and precedent before buying. I also was thinking of knocking on some

Considering what is at risk here, maybe you should spring for a real
lawyer?


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Can't get out of 'vi'? Common problem. Don't worry, I'm here to help. Just
log in as root and type "init 0". It works for pretty much any problem you
might have with Linux. No, no, no. Thank /you/. -- Mikey Raeder

[Kyle Boatright]

In my (many?, all?, most?, some?) area, the local zoning laws govern where
you can put an airstrip. You need to check with your county to see if they
have rules on the subject, and what those rules are.

Also, if I was spending a premium to get an airfield lot, I'd make sure the
airstrip can't be sold out from under me.

KB

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Howdy,
>
> I'm lucky to have found a lot nearby that has pretty much everything I
> want, including 2600 ft. of turf runway. This whole thing has been
> carved out of the bush in the past 6 months. Great fishing is just a
> stretch of the legs away, and while it is awfully rural, it isn't that
> far away from a lovely metropolitain city or the beach.
>
> There is only 5 lots on this airstrip vith varying acreage. One end of
> it faces a lake. (Good, not flying directly over anyones house) The
> other end is purpendicular to a country road with a small trailer and a
> large piece of acreage on the other side. It isn't on the current
> sectional. I've chatted briefly with the fellow who built it. There is
> only his house on it at this time, and he doesn't have an aircraft
> based there. There is no obvious evidence that an aircraft has ever
> operated from it. There is a rather large sign aftertising the lots as
> "airpark" lots on this little country road, so I imagine the fellar
> across the street has at least some understanding of what this large
> field is intended for.
>
> However there are a few things burning a hole in the back of my mind
> preventing the checkbook from flowing forth. City state and federal
> ordinances for one. What constitutes legitimacy for an airpark? I've
> heard some horror stories about litigation between the state and
> private airstrips. I'm awfully concerned that 5 lots is not enough to
> make a good show and Bubba's courthouse-and-saloon.
>
> I'm thinking I need to hire a paralegal to look up any applicable laws
> and precedent before buying. I also was thinking of knocking on some
> neighbors doors and get an idea what the community thinks about it. I
> will of course wear my hip-waders and a cow bell lest I get shot for
> rustlin'.
>
> Anybody been through this? Advice?
> -Matt
>

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
. ..
> In my (many?, all?, most?, some?) area, the local zoning laws govern where
> you can put an airstrip. You need to check with your county to see if
> they have rules on the subject, and what those rules are.
>
> Also, if I was spending a premium to get an airfield lot, I'd make sure
> the airstrip can't be sold out from under me.
>

Also - How is the drainage - will it turn to mud in the spring? Snow removal
/ mowing - who and how much will it cost. I assume the lots are buildable
(perk OK for a septic and all that stuff). Utilities? Easemenets to get back
to your lot (and to the strip)? Deed restrictions on what you can / can't
build /do?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Vaughn Simon]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> However there are a few things burning a hole in the back of my mind
> preventing the checkbook from flowing forth. City state and federal
> ordinances for one. What constitutes legitimacy for an airpark? I've
> heard some horror stories about litigation between the state and
> private airstrips. I'm awfully concerned that 5 lots is not enough to
> make a good show and Bubba's courthouse-and-saloon.
>
> I'm thinking I need to hire a paralegal to look up any applicable laws
> and precedent before buying. I also was thinking of knocking on some
> neighbors doors and get an idea what the community thinks about it. I
> will of course wear my hip-waders and a cow bell lest I get shot for
> rustlin'.

The covenants are absolutely critical. The airstrip must be dedicated so
that A) Someone can't sell it after all of the "airstrip" lots are sold, and B)
Some landowner can't (for example) throw up a fence across it. (I have seen
and/or heard of both of these things happening)

* Who pays for maintenance?
*Who gets sued when (for example) someone lands, hits a pothole and crashes?
*As already mentioned, a check of local land-use restrictions is in order to be
sure that the airstrip is compliant.


Vaughn

[Robert M. Gary]

Vaughn Simon wrote:
> > wrote in message
> The covenants are absolutely critical. The airstrip must be dedicated so
> that A) Someone can't sell it after all of the "airstrip" lots are sold, and B)
> Some landowner can't (for example) throw up a fence across it. (I have seen
> and/or heard of both of these things happening)
>
> * Who pays for maintenance?
> *Who gets sued when (for example) someone lands, hits a pothole and crashes?
> *As already mentioned, a check of local land-use restrictions is in order to be
> sure that the airstrip is compliant.

Although I don't live on an airpark my plane does. Our airpark is set
up such that each home owner owns a fraction of the runway. There is a
community associate that all the owners belong to and they manage the
airpark. The fuel pump pretty much pays for the operation but we just
recently accepted state money to do some improvements (never took any
federal money though). We've paved so we don't have much drainage to
worry about but we do have to resurface every so many years.


-Robert

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ]

> Posted At: Sunday, January 14, 2007 3:54 PM

> Posted To: rec.aviation.owning

> Conversation: Airpark lot, things to consider before buying?

> Subject: Airpark lot, things to consider before buying?

>

> Howdy,

>

> I'm lucky to have found a lot nearby that has pretty much everything I

> want, including 2600 ft. of turf runway. This whole thing has been

> carved out of the bush in the past 6 months. Great fishing is just a

> stretch of the legs away, and while it is awfully rural, it isn't that

> far away from a lovely metropolitain city or the beach.

>

....



Having just purchased a lot on Gunderson's Airpark in Owasso, Oklahoma
(O38) I suggest you take the earlier advice and talk to a knowledgeable
attorney. In the meantime, here are some things to think about:



* There probably should be a homeowners association to buffer
the individual homeowners from some of the liabilities.



* If the airport is privately owned then the homeowners
association may need first-rights to prevent sale to some non-aviation
type buyer.



* If the airport is sod then the substructure most likely will
be hard clay or some other type of soil that does not perk-test well.
That means you will be looking at a septic system that treats your waste
and then distributes the gray-water through a sprinkler system. Figure
on adding $5 to $8 K to your home building costs.



* In most areas, the county / parish planning board must approve
the platted land description. (This isn't easy so don't put your money
down until that approval is obtained.)



We put a deposit down on our lot 2 years before we could legally close -
the planning commission, the utility companies, and the local residents
all had to be satisfied before we would agree to buy the property. And
this is an expansion of a pre-existing residential airpark.



Best advice I can think of is - don't get in a hurry, make sure your
deposits are refunded if the developer can't close, and find a good
attorney who will help you through the entire process. $500 for an
attorney is cheap when you are looking at $50 K or more for good
residential airpark building lots.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article
>,
"Vaughn Simon" > wrote:

> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > However there are a few things burning a hole in the back of my mind
> > preventing the checkbook from flowing forth. City state and federal
> > ordinances for one. What constitutes legitimacy for an airpark? I've
> > heard some horror stories about litigation between the state and
> > private airstrips. I'm awfully concerned that 5 lots is not enough to
> > make a good show and Bubba's courthouse-and-saloon.
> >
> > I'm thinking I need to hire a paralegal to look up any applicable laws
> > and precedent before buying. I also was thinking of knocking on some
> > neighbors doors and get an idea what the community thinks about it. I
> > will of course wear my hip-waders and a cow bell lest I get shot for
> > rustlin'.
>
> The covenants are absolutely critical. The airstrip must be dedicated
> so
> that A) Someone can't sell it after all of the "airstrip" lots are sold, and
> B)
> Some landowner can't (for example) throw up a fence across it. (I have seen
> and/or heard of both of these things happening)

I also know of examples of the above.

I live on an airpark and LOVE it! I did, however (along with my wife)
set up a number of critical checklist items:

1. Property owners must own the airstrip.
2. Sewer and water system.
3. Lights for night ops.
4. Close to civilization. (Who wants to drive an hour to get a can of
paint or a loaf of bread?)
5. No state income taxes.
6. State homestead law.
7. Reasonable ground access. (You still have to move in the heavy/bulky
stuff.)
8. Some kind of architectural planning. (You could end up in a dump.)
9. near community colleges. (for wife's interests)
10. Near beaches. (Both of us)
11. A friendly community.
12. A community big enough to put down the "rules Nazis" and the slobs.
13. Big enough to protect itself from the local Philistines who hate
airplanes.



> * Who pays for maintenance?
> *Who gets sued when (for example) someone lands, hits a pothole and crashes?
> *As already mentioned, a check of local land-use restrictions is in order to
> be
> sure that the airstrip is compliant.
>
>
> Vaughn

[Doug[_1_]]

It doesnt matter much if the runway is on the sectional. What matters
is:
1. Who owns it
2. Who controls it
3. Who pays for it
4. Who uses it
5. Who doesn't want it

There are probably zoning laws. Is it allowed by zoning? Is there a
written arrangement for it's ownership and control? Five lots is not
many, but I have seen ones operate with fewer. How long has it been
there? Ultimately, you won't know for sure, I suspect. The only ones
that are "for sure" (is anything for sure?) are ones that have been
there a long time and are supported by many of the local home owners
who are active flyers. What seems to do these airparks in more than
anything is disuse.

Crested Butte has a local airport that is private, but public use
allowed. It was originally built to be part of a subdivision. The local
landowners dont want it and they are trying to shut it down. There are
many other similar stories. If there were several landowners that used
it and wanted it, it would be much more likely to stay open.

The one up at Red Feather Lakes is closed now (I think). It was the
last remaining posession of the developer. Not a single lot owner who
used it. Only about two pilots ever landed there in the last year. It
was on and off the sectional over the years. It was for sale for a
while. I am not sure what happened to the land. It might even still be
there.

[[email protected]]

Sounds COOL! Where are you?

Jer/ in Colorado

Orval Fairbairn > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> "Vaughn Simon" > wrote:

> > > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > > However there are a few things burning a hole in the back of my mind
> > > preventing the checkbook from flowing forth. City state and federal
> > > ordinances for one. What constitutes legitimacy for an airpark? I've
> > > heard some horror stories about litigation between the state and
> > > private airstrips. I'm awfully concerned that 5 lots is not enough to
> > > make a good show and Bubba's courthouse-and-saloon.
> > >
> > > I'm thinking I need to hire a paralegal to look up any applicable laws
> > > and precedent before buying. I also was thinking of knocking on some
> > > neighbors doors and get an idea what the community thinks about it. I
> > > will of course wear my hip-waders and a cow bell lest I get shot for
> > > rustlin'.
> >
> > The covenants are absolutely critical. The airstrip must be dedicated
> > so
> > that A) Someone can't sell it after all of the "airstrip" lots are sold, and
> > B)
> > Some landowner can't (for example) throw up a fence across it. (I have seen
> > and/or heard of both of these things happening)

> I also know of examples of the above.

> I live on an airpark and LOVE it! I did, however (along with my wife)
> set up a number of critical checklist items:

> 1. Property owners must own the airstrip.
> 2. Sewer and water system.
> 3. Lights for night ops.
> 4. Close to civilization. (Who wants to drive an hour to get a can of
> paint or a loaf of bread?)
> 5. No state income taxes.
> 6. State homestead law.
> 7. Reasonable ground access. (You still have to move in the heavy/bulky
> stuff.)
> 8. Some kind of architectural planning. (You could end up in a dump.)
> 9. near community colleges. (for wife's interests)
> 10. Near beaches. (Both of us)
> 11. A friendly community.
> 12. A community big enough to put down the "rules Nazis" and the slobs.
> 13. Big enough to protect itself from the local Philistines who hate
> airplanes.



> > * Who pays for maintenance?
> > *Who gets sued when (for example) someone lands, hits a pothole and crashes?
> > *As already mentioned, a check of local land-use restrictions is in order to
> > be
> > sure that the airstrip is compliant.
> >
> >
> > Vaughn


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer at frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles!

[[email protected]]

Doug > wrote:

> The one up at Red Feather Lakes is closed now (I think). It was the
> last remaining posession of the developer. Not a single lot owner who
> used it. Only about two pilots ever landed there in the last year. It
> was on and off the sectional over the years. It was for sale for a
> while. I am not sure what happened to the land. It might even still be
> there.

In Colorado: Red Feather Lakes is OPEN, but for sale.
It is unusable during winter (snow/wet/mud).

I have permission from two of the owners to visit, and I've landed
there a dozen times in 2006... and will do more in 2007!

There are several private owned, prior permission only private
strips in Colorado that I have access for me and my students.
If you want to come play, you know where to find me. :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles!

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ]
> Posted At: Monday, January 15, 2007 11:56 AM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
> Conversation: Airpark lot, things to consider before buying?
> Subject: Re: Airpark lot, things to consider before buying?
>
> Doug > wrote:
>
....
>
> There are several private owned, prior permission only private
> strips in Colorado that I have access for me and my students.
> If you want to come play, you know where to find me. :-)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
> --
> Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
> CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
> C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
> CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles!

There used to be a similar airport at Taylor Park on the plateau behind
the gas station / bait store / restaurant. Last time I was up there
though some land owner had built a fence across the strip and it was
unusable. (I was there by auto thank heavens.) Completely unusable
during winter - the park is closed.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >, wrote:

> Sounds COOL! Where are you?

Spruce Creek (7FL6), by Daytona Beach. See:

/
http://www.scpoa.com/
http://eaa288.org/


We have about 600 airplanes, 1500 lots/homes: 1/3 taxiway, 1/3 golf
course and 1/3 nature preserve. We also have CC&Rs that specify that it
takes 90% of the residents to close the airport.

I like to do the Saturday morning Gaggle (formation fly-out to
breakfast, where we accumulate 20-30 planes, in flights of 2-5 and
invade an airport that has a restaurant.

Our guys usually provide half or more of the "Oshkosh 400" race
entrants, too.



> Orval Fairbairn > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > "Vaughn Simon" > wrote:
>
> > > > wrote in message
> > > oups.com...
> > > > However there are a few things burning a hole in the back of my mind
> > > > preventing the checkbook from flowing forth. City state and federal
> > > > ordinances for one. What constitutes legitimacy for an airpark? I've
> > > > heard some horror stories about litigation between the state and
> > > > private airstrips. I'm awfully concerned that 5 lots is not enough to
> > > > make a good show and Bubba's courthouse-and-saloon.
> > > >
> > > > I'm thinking I need to hire a paralegal to look up any applicable laws
> > > > and precedent before buying. I also was thinking of knocking on some
> > > > neighbors doors and get an idea what the community thinks about it. I
> > > > will of course wear my hip-waders and a cow bell lest I get shot for
> > > > rustlin'.
> > >
> > > The covenants are absolutely critical. The airstrip must be
> > > dedicated
> > > so
> > > that A) Someone can't sell it after all of the "airstrip" lots are sold,
> > > and
> > > B)
> > > Some landowner can't (for example) throw up a fence across it. (I have
> > > seen
> > > and/or heard of both of these things happening)
>
> > I also know of examples of the above.
>
> > I live on an airpark and LOVE it! I did, however (along with my wife)
> > set up a number of critical checklist items:
>
> > 1. Property owners must own the airstrip.
> > 2. Sewer and water system.
> > 3. Lights for night ops.
> > 4. Close to civilization. (Who wants to drive an hour to get a can of
> > paint or a loaf of bread?)
> > 5. No state income taxes.
> > 6. State homestead law.
> > 7. Reasonable ground access. (You still have to move in the heavy/bulky
> > stuff.)
> > 8. Some kind of architectural planning. (You could end up in a dump.)
> > 9. near community colleges. (for wife's interests)
> > 10. Near beaches. (Both of us)
> > 11. A friendly community.
> > 12. A community big enough to put down the "rules Nazis" and the slobs.
> > 13. Big enough to protect itself from the local Philistines who hate
> > airplanes.
>
>
>
> > > * Who pays for maintenance?
> > > *Who gets sued when (for example) someone lands, hits a pothole and
> > > crashes?
> > > *As already mentioned, a check of local land-use restrictions is in order
> > > to
> > > be
> > > sure that the airstrip is compliant.
> > >
> > >
> > > Vaughn
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"

[Newps]

wrote:


>
> I have permission from two of the owners to visit, and I've landed
> there a dozen times in 2006... and will do more in 2007!

That's the key, find people in your area with strips you can use. There
are runways everywhere. There's at least 75 within 75 miles of me.
Point your Google Earth to 45.39.25.63N and 109.00.18.52W That's a
friend of mine that has 6000 acres around that location. There are
currently 25 strips on that land, since I don't know when the satellite
picture was taken I'm not sure how many are there. See how many you can
find.



>
> There are several private owned, prior permission only private
> strips in Colorado that I have access for me and my students.


Most strips I am aware of aren't listed or registered anywhere so
there's nobody to call. You have to run across them at various fly-ins,
etc.

[Doug[_1_]]

Glad to hear someone is using it. It's been a while since I have been
up there. Is it on the current VFR sectional?

wrote:
> Doug > wrote:
>
> > The one up at Red Feather Lakes is closed now (I think). It was the
> > last remaining posession of the developer. Not a single lot owner who
> > used it. Only about two pilots ever landed there in the last year. It
> > was on and off the sectional over the years. It was for sale for a
> > while. I am not sure what happened to the land. It might even still be
> > there.
>
> In Colorado: Red Feather Lakes is OPEN, but for sale.
> It is unusable during winter (snow/wet/mud).
>
> I have permission from two of the owners to visit, and I've landed
> there a dozen times in 2006... and will do more in 2007!
>
> There are several private owned, prior permission only private
> strips in Colorado that I have access for me and my students.
> If you want to come play, you know where to find me. :-)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
> --
> Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
> CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
> C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
> CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles!

[[email protected]]

Doug > wrote:
> Glad to hear someone is using it. It's been a while since I have been
> up there. Is it on the current VFR sectional?

Yes.

> wrote:
> > Doug > wrote:
> >
> > > The one up at Red Feather Lakes is closed now (I think). It was the

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer at frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles!