Questions for LA area pilots .. Banning Pass to Chino?

[Jay Beckman]

Greetings All...

I've been wanting to fly from the Phoenix area to Chino, CA to get a bite at
Flo's and see the Planes of Fame Museum. The Wx looks like it will
cooperate for Wednesday but I have a couple of questions for any pilots who
know this part of the LA Basin and how best to deal with getting through the
Banning Pass.

I have flown as far as Palm Springs but beyond the PSP VOR is virgin
territory for me.

First question has to do with actually transiting the Banning Pass. From
the Palm Springs VOR, I see you can hug the right side (going west) via the
DEWAY intersection or you can hug the left side by going via the BANDS
intersection. Is it better to "Keep Right" in each direction?

Next Issue: Looking at the LA TAC, once you get over or abeam the Banning
airport, there are three flyways. One goes off to the NW to get around
Ontario. One goes to the Paradise VORTAC via Riverside (staying north of
March ARB) and one goes more to the SW directly over March ARB to Lake
Matthews (VPLLM) and then intersects another flyway going NW to the Paradise
VORTAC and then to Chino.

My gut tells me maybe the SW route over March to Lake Matthews might be
better as it gets you off the straightline route through the pass and Lake
Matthews would work as a checkpoint for TOD. I could even go from Lake
Matthews to the Corona airport and get a good approach angle to Chino from
the SSE. This way, I'd also stay SW of the Paradise VOR and maybe help
avoid converging traffic? How active is March these days? Trash Haulers?
Fast Movers?

So, maybe my route over would be:

P19 (Stellar Airpark)
GBN (Gila Bend VOR) (Quickest way out from under the Phoenix Class B..They
sometimes will approve an early climb direct to SADLL)
VICKO
BLH (Blythe VOR)
CONES
PSP (Palm Springs VOR)
DEWAY or VPLBP (Banning Pass Reporting Point)
KRIV (March ARB)
VPLLM (Lake Matthews)
KAJO (Corona Airport)
KCNO (Chino)

Coming back, I could just depart Chino and head direct (or as direct as
possible) to the VPLBP point and proceed on the reverse of the above.

If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for them...

I plan to park in the NW corner of transient parking in order to walk to the
museum.

TIA,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Aluckyguess]

If you get fight following you can go direct Chino from PSP if not just
track PDZ and it just off to the left.
"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
...
> Greetings All...
>
> I've been wanting to fly from the Phoenix area to Chino, CA to get a bite
> at Flo's and see the Planes of Fame Museum. The Wx looks like it will
> cooperate for Wednesday but I have a couple of questions for any pilots
> who know this part of the LA Basin and how best to deal with getting
> through the Banning Pass.
>
> I have flown as far as Palm Springs but beyond the PSP VOR is virgin
> territory for me.
>
> First question has to do with actually transiting the Banning Pass. From
> the Palm Springs VOR, I see you can hug the right side (going west) via
> the DEWAY intersection or you can hug the left side by going via the BANDS
> intersection. Is it better to "Keep Right" in each direction?
>
> Next Issue: Looking at the LA TAC, once you get over or abeam the Banning
> airport, there are three flyways. One goes off to the NW to get around
> Ontario. One goes to the Paradise VORTAC via Riverside (staying north of
> March ARB) and one goes more to the SW directly over March ARB to Lake
> Matthews (VPLLM) and then intersects another flyway going NW to the
> Paradise VORTAC and then to Chino.
>
> My gut tells me maybe the SW route over March to Lake Matthews might be
> better as it gets you off the straightline route through the pass and Lake
> Matthews would work as a checkpoint for TOD. I could even go from Lake
> Matthews to the Corona airport and get a good approach angle to Chino from
> the SSE. This way, I'd also stay SW of the Paradise VOR and maybe help
> avoid converging traffic? How active is March these days? Trash Haulers?
> Fast Movers?
>
> So, maybe my route over would be:
>
> P19 (Stellar Airpark)
> GBN (Gila Bend VOR) (Quickest way out from under the Phoenix Class B..They
> sometimes will approve an early climb direct to SADLL)
> VICKO
> BLH (Blythe VOR)
> CONES
> PSP (Palm Springs VOR)
> DEWAY or VPLBP (Banning Pass Reporting Point)
> KRIV (March ARB)
> VPLLM (Lake Matthews)
> KAJO (Corona Airport)
> KCNO (Chino)
>
> Coming back, I could just depart Chino and head direct (or as direct as
> possible) to the VPLBP point and proceed on the reverse of the above.
>
> If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for them...
>
> I plan to park in the NW corner of transient parking in order to walk to
> the museum.
>
> TIA,
>
> Jay Beckman
> PP-ASEL
> Chandler, AZ
>

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

Jay,

I have flown through there many times. I always contact PSP and they
assign me a code. I just zip through at the appropriate altitude and
keep the eyes wide open. It does get busy through there... In fact,
I think I read there was a mid air over the Banning airport a few
years back. Not to surprising considering the GA traffic in the area.

The other route would be further south of PSP, head NW from Salton Sea
Area and go NW to the March or Fench Valley area. Not that big of
deal AND you have to worry less about the tight space through the
pass.

Negative part is there is an area for 10 minutes or so where there are
few landing places should the need arise... Climb an extra couple
thousand feet for a little more safety margin.

If you want more deatails let me know and we can talk via email...


On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:38:46 -0700, "Jay Beckman" >
wrote:

>Greetings All...
>
>I've been wanting to fly from the Phoenix area to Chino, CA to get a bite at
>Flo's and see the Planes of Fame Museum. The Wx looks like it will
>cooperate for Wednesday but I have a couple of questions for any pilots who
>know this part of the LA Basin and how best to deal with getting through the
>Banning Pass.
>
>I have flown as far as Palm Springs but beyond the PSP VOR is virgin
>territory for me.
>
>First question has to do with actually transiting the Banning Pass. From
>the Palm Springs VOR, I see you can hug the right side (going west) via the
>DEWAY intersection or you can hug the left side by going via the BANDS
>intersection. Is it better to "Keep Right" in each direction?
>
>Next Issue: Looking at the LA TAC, once you get over or abeam the Banning
>airport, there are three flyways. One goes off to the NW to get around
>Ontario. One goes to the Paradise VORTAC via Riverside (staying north of
>March ARB) and one goes more to the SW directly over March ARB to Lake
>Matthews (VPLLM) and then intersects another flyway going NW to the Paradise
>VORTAC and then to Chino.
>
>My gut tells me maybe the SW route over March to Lake Matthews might be
>better as it gets you off the straightline route through the pass and Lake
>Matthews would work as a checkpoint for TOD. I could even go from Lake
>Matthews to the Corona airport and get a good approach angle to Chino from
>the SSE. This way, I'd also stay SW of the Paradise VOR and maybe help
>avoid converging traffic? How active is March these days? Trash Haulers?
>Fast Movers?
>
>So, maybe my route over would be:
>
>P19 (Stellar Airpark)
>GBN (Gila Bend VOR) (Quickest way out from under the Phoenix Class B..They
>sometimes will approve an early climb direct to SADLL)
>VICKO
>BLH (Blythe VOR)
>CONES
>PSP (Palm Springs VOR)
>DEWAY or VPLBP (Banning Pass Reporting Point)
>KRIV (March ARB)
>VPLLM (Lake Matthews)
>KAJO (Corona Airport)
>KCNO (Chino)
>
>Coming back, I could just depart Chino and head direct (or as direct as
>possible) to the VPLBP point and proceed on the reverse of the above.
>
>If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for them...
>
>I plan to park in the NW corner of transient parking in order to walk to the
>museum.
>
>TIA,
>
>Jay Beckman
>PP-ASEL
>Chandler, AZ
>


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Aluckyguess]

Came through the pass the other day and had a 60 knot head win.
"Mike 'Flyin'8'" > wrote in message
...
> Jay,
>
> I have flown through there many times. I always contact PSP and they
> assign me a code. I just zip through at the appropriate altitude and
> keep the eyes wide open. It does get busy through there... In fact,
> I think I read there was a mid air over the Banning airport a few
> years back. Not to surprising considering the GA traffic in the area.
>
> The other route would be further south of PSP, head NW from Salton Sea
> Area and go NW to the March or Fench Valley area. Not that big of
> deal AND you have to worry less about the tight space through the
> pass.
>
> Negative part is there is an area for 10 minutes or so where there are
> few landing places should the need arise... Climb an extra couple
> thousand feet for a little more safety margin.
>
> If you want more deatails let me know and we can talk via email...
>
>
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:38:46 -0700, "Jay Beckman" >
> wrote:
>
>>Greetings All...
>>
>>I've been wanting to fly from the Phoenix area to Chino, CA to get a bite
>>at
>>Flo's and see the Planes of Fame Museum. The Wx looks like it will
>>cooperate for Wednesday but I have a couple of questions for any pilots
>>who
>>know this part of the LA Basin and how best to deal with getting through
>>the
>>Banning Pass.
>>
>>I have flown as far as Palm Springs but beyond the PSP VOR is virgin
>>territory for me.
>>
>>First question has to do with actually transiting the Banning Pass. From
>>the Palm Springs VOR, I see you can hug the right side (going west) via
>>the
>>DEWAY intersection or you can hug the left side by going via the BANDS
>>intersection. Is it better to "Keep Right" in each direction?
>>
>>Next Issue: Looking at the LA TAC, once you get over or abeam the Banning
>>airport, there are three flyways. One goes off to the NW to get around
>>Ontario. One goes to the Paradise VORTAC via Riverside (staying north of
>>March ARB) and one goes more to the SW directly over March ARB to Lake
>>Matthews (VPLLM) and then intersects another flyway going NW to the
>>Paradise
>>VORTAC and then to Chino.
>>
>>My gut tells me maybe the SW route over March to Lake Matthews might be
>>better as it gets you off the straightline route through the pass and Lake
>>Matthews would work as a checkpoint for TOD. I could even go from Lake
>>Matthews to the Corona airport and get a good approach angle to Chino from
>>the SSE. This way, I'd also stay SW of the Paradise VOR and maybe help
>>avoid converging traffic? How active is March these days? Trash Haulers?
>>Fast Movers?
>>
>>So, maybe my route over would be:
>>
>>P19 (Stellar Airpark)
>>GBN (Gila Bend VOR) (Quickest way out from under the Phoenix Class B..They
>>sometimes will approve an early climb direct to SADLL)
>>VICKO
>>BLH (Blythe VOR)
>>CONES
>>PSP (Palm Springs VOR)
>>DEWAY or VPLBP (Banning Pass Reporting Point)
>>KRIV (March ARB)
>>VPLLM (Lake Matthews)
>>KAJO (Corona Airport)
>>KCNO (Chino)
>>
>>Coming back, I could just depart Chino and head direct (or as direct as
>>possible) to the VPLBP point and proceed on the reverse of the above.
>>
>>If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for them...
>>
>>I plan to park in the NW corner of transient parking in order to walk to
>>the
>>museum.
>>
>>TIA,
>>
>>Jay Beckman
>>PP-ASEL
>>Chandler, AZ
>>
>
>
> Mike Alexander
> PP-ASEL
> Temecula, CA
> See my online aerial photo album at
> http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

Wow... that must have taken 25 minutes to transition through the PSP
airspace. I flew from F70 to KPSP on Mothers Day last year... Took no
time at all one direction, but about twiuce the time the other... Can
not remember which way too longer, but probably coming from PSP to
F70.

>Came through the pass the other day and had a 60 knot head win.
>"Mike 'Flyin'8'" > wrote in message
...


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:38:46 -0700, "Jay Beckman" >
wrote in >:

>Greetings All...
>
>I've been wanting to fly from the Phoenix area to Chino, CA to get a bite at
>Flo's and see the Planes of Fame Museum.

You're going to love it. Consider visiting the Robert Pond museum on
KPSP airport too: http://www.air-museum.org/ . The former has a lot
of arcane aircraft and memorabilia. The latter is chock full of WW-II
war birds in better than new condition!

>The Wx looks like it will
>cooperate for Wednesday but I have a couple of questions for any pilots who
>know this part of the LA Basin and how best to deal with getting through the
>Banning Pass.

First, whenever you're within 100 miles of LA burn a landing light to
increase your conspicuity. Traffic can be thicker within the narrow
Banning Pass.

>I have flown as far as Palm Springs but beyond the PSP VOR is virgin
>territory for me.

So then you're familiar with the Palm Sprints TRSA. Remember, those
TRSA controllers are providing radar traffic advisories on a WORK
PERMITTINE BASIS. I've had them fail to advise me of conflicting
traffic more than once. If they start vectoring you all over the
place, remember you can tell them "Negative Stage Three," and go your
own way.

Do contact SoCal Approach to receive traffic advisories, it makes
transiting any Class B, C or D airspace easier, as they'll clear you
through it.

(I know you're probably aware of these issues, but I'd be derelict if
I failed to mention them.)

>First question has to do with actually transiting the Banning Pass. From
>the Palm Springs VOR, I see you can hug the right side (going west) via the
>DEWAY intersection or you can hug the left side by going via the BANDS
>intersection. Is it better to "Keep Right" in each direction?

You can do it direct or any way you like, but I keep to the right when
in the pass. It's best if you have a plan, as it's easier to advise
ATC of your intended route. But it looks like you intend to do that.

>Next Issue: Looking at the LA TAC, once you get over or abeam the Banning
>airport, there are three flyways. One goes off to the NW to get around
>Ontario. One goes to the Paradise VORTAC via Riverside (staying north of
>March ARB) and one goes more to the SW directly over March ARB to Lake
>Matthews (VPLLM) and then intersects another flyway going NW to the Paradise
>VORTAC and then to Chino.
>
>My gut tells me maybe the SW route over March to Lake Matthews might be
>better as it gets you off the straightline route through the pass and Lake
>Matthews would work as a checkpoint for TOD. I could even go from Lake
>Matthews to the Corona airport and get a good approach angle to Chino from
>the SSE. This way, I'd also stay SW of the Paradise VOR and maybe help
>avoid converging traffic? How active is March these days?

March has been converted to a Reserve base. I've never seem much
activity there.

>Trash Haulers?
>Fast Movers?
>
>So, maybe my route over would be:
>
>P19 (Stellar Airpark)
>GBN (Gila Bend VOR) (Quickest way out from under the Phoenix Class B..They
>sometimes will approve an early climb direct to SADLL)
>VICKO
>BLH (Blythe VOR)
>CONES
>PSP (Palm Springs VOR)
>DEWAY or VPLBP (Banning Pass Reporting Point)
>KRIV (March ARB)
>VPLLM (Lake Matthews)
>KAJO (Corona Airport)
>KCNO (Chino)

Check out the ILS Rnwy 26R approach plate here:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0612/05599IL26R.PDF
I'd go direct PDZ then DEWYE intersection, sort of a left base entry
for 26R. Expect a lot of traffic at KAJO, some NORDO.

>Coming back, I could just depart Chino and head direct (or as direct as
>possible) to the VPLBP point and proceed on the reverse of the above.
>
>If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for them...
>
>I plan to park in the NW corner of transient parking in order to walk to the
>museum.
>
>TIA,
>
>Jay Beckman
>PP-ASEL
>Chandler, AZ
>

It's a busy chunk of airspace. Stay high as long as is comfortable,
as the traffic density down low can be intimidating.


You're going to love the museums. Have fun.

[john smith]

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:

>Took no time at all one direction, but about twice the time the
>other... Cannot remember which way too longer, but probably coming from
>PSP to F70.
>
>
No time = 0
Last time I had math, 2 x 0 = 0

:-))

[Jose]

> No time = 0
> Last time I had math, 2 x 0 = 0

Maybe he was using an early pentium. :)

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Don Tuite]

Always interesting when you come back from the desert and find the
basin socked in.

I came back one time, heading for TOA, and found solid undercast. But
LGB and TOA were reproting 1200-ft ceilings and there's usually a hole
in the stratus right over LA harbor. Sure enough, when I got aound
Ontario, I could see a dark spot off in that direction.

Smug and happy, I flew to it. (No TCAs or classes of control zones in
those days.)

Sure, enough, it was a hole, but when I looked down through it, what I
saw was the Avalon casino and Catalina harbor!

Don

[Aluckyguess]

I am building a couple houses in Bullhead area so I have been making that
trip a couple of times a week when weather is good.

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

HaHa.... I did not even catch that...

I think it was 25 minutes one way and about 45 the other... Been a
long time now.

Still... Very funny... :-)


On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:08:15 -0500, john smith > wrote:

>Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
>
>>Took no time at all one direction, but about twice the time the
>>other... Cannot remember which way too longer, but probably coming from
>>PSP to F70.
>>
>>
>No time = 0
>Last time I had math, 2 x 0 = 0
>
>:-))


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Jack Allison]

Sure, I see how it is...you're going w/o me :-) Dang, I'd make the trip
but have already taken a 1/2 day off this week to fly.

Hope all goes well. Looking forward to the pictures.

Some of those waypoints sound pretty familiar given my recent Palm
Springs trip.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Beckman]

"Jack Allison" > wrote in message
...
> Sure, I see how it is...you're going w/o me :-) Dang, I'd make the trip
> but have already taken a 1/2 day off this week to fly.
>
> Hope all goes well. Looking forward to the pictures.
>
> Some of those waypoints sound pretty familiar given my recent Palm Springs
> trip.
>
>
> --
> Jack Allison
> PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
>
> "To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
> a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
> - Rod Machado

Nothing personal Jack, nothing personal.

This is simply the upside (midweek flying) of my usual life. 99% of the
world gets to fly to fun places on weekends when there's something actually
going on (fly in, airshow, etc...) while I'm sitting in an ice-cold TV truck
somewhere providing mindless entertainment for Ma and Pa Couch Spud.

;O)

Jay B

[Jay Beckman]

Hey All...

Forgive me for responding to my own post, but...

Thanks to those who offered their thoughts on navigating the Banning Pass
however, a last second scheduling snag means I have to postpone this trip
until another time.

<It's your fault Jack!!>

(Ok, Not really...)

:OP

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Jack Allison]

Jay Beckman wrote:

> <It's your fault Jack!!>
>
> (Ok, Not really...)

Hehe...um...er...ok, sure, go ahead and believe it isn't my fault, fine
with me :-)

Dang, I was looking forward to the follow-up post w/ picture link. Will
have to wait until another time.

I wish I had more time to fly during the week...but there is that trade
off of more fun stuff going on during weekends. You freeze in a cold TV
truck during the weekend, I freeze in our lab during the week...it all
evens out :-)

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

Jay...if you do reschedule mid-week sometime, let me know. I bet I
could convince my brother to tag along. If I could swing it, I'd gladly
trade a vacation day to go fly somewhere.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)