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#1
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Greetings All...
I've been wanting to fly from the Phoenix area to Chino, CA to get a bite at Flo's and see the Planes of Fame Museum. The Wx looks like it will cooperate for Wednesday but I have a couple of questions for any pilots who know this part of the LA Basin and how best to deal with getting through the Banning Pass. I have flown as far as Palm Springs but beyond the PSP VOR is virgin territory for me. First question has to do with actually transiting the Banning Pass. From the Palm Springs VOR, I see you can hug the right side (going west) via the DEWAY intersection or you can hug the left side by going via the BANDS intersection. Is it better to "Keep Right" in each direction? Next Issue: Looking at the LA TAC, once you get over or abeam the Banning airport, there are three flyways. One goes off to the NW to get around Ontario. One goes to the Paradise VORTAC via Riverside (staying north of March ARB) and one goes more to the SW directly over March ARB to Lake Matthews (VPLLM) and then intersects another flyway going NW to the Paradise VORTAC and then to Chino. My gut tells me maybe the SW route over March to Lake Matthews might be better as it gets you off the straightline route through the pass and Lake Matthews would work as a checkpoint for TOD. I could even go from Lake Matthews to the Corona airport and get a good approach angle to Chino from the SSE. This way, I'd also stay SW of the Paradise VOR and maybe help avoid converging traffic? How active is March these days? Trash Haulers? Fast Movers? So, maybe my route over would be: P19 (Stellar Airpark) GBN (Gila Bend VOR) (Quickest way out from under the Phoenix Class B..They sometimes will approve an early climb direct to SADLL) VICKO BLH (Blythe VOR) CONES PSP (Palm Springs VOR) DEWAY or VPLBP (Banning Pass Reporting Point) KRIV (March ARB) VPLLM (Lake Matthews) KAJO (Corona Airport) KCNO (Chino) Coming back, I could just depart Chino and head direct (or as direct as possible) to the VPLBP point and proceed on the reverse of the above. If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for them... I plan to park in the NW corner of transient parking in order to walk to the museum. TIA, Jay Beckman PP-ASEL Chandler, AZ |
#2
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If you get fight following you can go direct Chino from PSP if not just
track PDZ and it just off to the left. "Jay Beckman" wrote in message ... Greetings All... I've been wanting to fly from the Phoenix area to Chino, CA to get a bite at Flo's and see the Planes of Fame Museum. The Wx looks like it will cooperate for Wednesday but I have a couple of questions for any pilots who know this part of the LA Basin and how best to deal with getting through the Banning Pass. I have flown as far as Palm Springs but beyond the PSP VOR is virgin territory for me. First question has to do with actually transiting the Banning Pass. From the Palm Springs VOR, I see you can hug the right side (going west) via the DEWAY intersection or you can hug the left side by going via the BANDS intersection. Is it better to "Keep Right" in each direction? Next Issue: Looking at the LA TAC, once you get over or abeam the Banning airport, there are three flyways. One goes off to the NW to get around Ontario. One goes to the Paradise VORTAC via Riverside (staying north of March ARB) and one goes more to the SW directly over March ARB to Lake Matthews (VPLLM) and then intersects another flyway going NW to the Paradise VORTAC and then to Chino. My gut tells me maybe the SW route over March to Lake Matthews might be better as it gets you off the straightline route through the pass and Lake Matthews would work as a checkpoint for TOD. I could even go from Lake Matthews to the Corona airport and get a good approach angle to Chino from the SSE. This way, I'd also stay SW of the Paradise VOR and maybe help avoid converging traffic? How active is March these days? Trash Haulers? Fast Movers? So, maybe my route over would be: P19 (Stellar Airpark) GBN (Gila Bend VOR) (Quickest way out from under the Phoenix Class B..They sometimes will approve an early climb direct to SADLL) VICKO BLH (Blythe VOR) CONES PSP (Palm Springs VOR) DEWAY or VPLBP (Banning Pass Reporting Point) KRIV (March ARB) VPLLM (Lake Matthews) KAJO (Corona Airport) KCNO (Chino) Coming back, I could just depart Chino and head direct (or as direct as possible) to the VPLBP point and proceed on the reverse of the above. If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for them... I plan to park in the NW corner of transient parking in order to walk to the museum. TIA, Jay Beckman PP-ASEL Chandler, AZ |
#3
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Jay,
I have flown through there many times. I always contact PSP and they assign me a code. I just zip through at the appropriate altitude and keep the eyes wide open. It does get busy through there... In fact, I think I read there was a mid air over the Banning airport a few years back. Not to surprising considering the GA traffic in the area. The other route would be further south of PSP, head NW from Salton Sea Area and go NW to the March or Fench Valley area. Not that big of deal AND you have to worry less about the tight space through the pass. Negative part is there is an area for 10 minutes or so where there are few landing places should the need arise... Climb an extra couple thousand feet for a little more safety margin. If you want more deatails let me know and we can talk via email... On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:38:46 -0700, "Jay Beckman" wrote: Greetings All... I've been wanting to fly from the Phoenix area to Chino, CA to get a bite at Flo's and see the Planes of Fame Museum. The Wx looks like it will cooperate for Wednesday but I have a couple of questions for any pilots who know this part of the LA Basin and how best to deal with getting through the Banning Pass. I have flown as far as Palm Springs but beyond the PSP VOR is virgin territory for me. First question has to do with actually transiting the Banning Pass. From the Palm Springs VOR, I see you can hug the right side (going west) via the DEWAY intersection or you can hug the left side by going via the BANDS intersection. Is it better to "Keep Right" in each direction? Next Issue: Looking at the LA TAC, once you get over or abeam the Banning airport, there are three flyways. One goes off to the NW to get around Ontario. One goes to the Paradise VORTAC via Riverside (staying north of March ARB) and one goes more to the SW directly over March ARB to Lake Matthews (VPLLM) and then intersects another flyway going NW to the Paradise VORTAC and then to Chino. My gut tells me maybe the SW route over March to Lake Matthews might be better as it gets you off the straightline route through the pass and Lake Matthews would work as a checkpoint for TOD. I could even go from Lake Matthews to the Corona airport and get a good approach angle to Chino from the SSE. This way, I'd also stay SW of the Paradise VOR and maybe help avoid converging traffic? How active is March these days? Trash Haulers? Fast Movers? So, maybe my route over would be: P19 (Stellar Airpark) GBN (Gila Bend VOR) (Quickest way out from under the Phoenix Class B..They sometimes will approve an early climb direct to SADLL) VICKO BLH (Blythe VOR) CONES PSP (Palm Springs VOR) DEWAY or VPLBP (Banning Pass Reporting Point) KRIV (March ARB) VPLLM (Lake Matthews) KAJO (Corona Airport) KCNO (Chino) Coming back, I could just depart Chino and head direct (or as direct as possible) to the VPLBP point and proceed on the reverse of the above. If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for them... I plan to park in the NW corner of transient parking in order to walk to the museum. TIA, Jay Beckman PP-ASEL Chandler, AZ Mike Alexander PP-ASEL Temecula, CA See my online aerial photo album at http://flying.4alexanders.com |
#4
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Came through the pass the other day and had a 60 knot head win.
"Mike 'Flyin'8'" wrote in message ... Jay, I have flown through there many times. I always contact PSP and they assign me a code. I just zip through at the appropriate altitude and keep the eyes wide open. It does get busy through there... In fact, I think I read there was a mid air over the Banning airport a few years back. Not to surprising considering the GA traffic in the area. The other route would be further south of PSP, head NW from Salton Sea Area and go NW to the March or Fench Valley area. Not that big of deal AND you have to worry less about the tight space through the pass. Negative part is there is an area for 10 minutes or so where there are few landing places should the need arise... Climb an extra couple thousand feet for a little more safety margin. If you want more deatails let me know and we can talk via email... On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:38:46 -0700, "Jay Beckman" wrote: Greetings All... I've been wanting to fly from the Phoenix area to Chino, CA to get a bite at Flo's and see the Planes of Fame Museum. The Wx looks like it will cooperate for Wednesday but I have a couple of questions for any pilots who know this part of the LA Basin and how best to deal with getting through the Banning Pass. I have flown as far as Palm Springs but beyond the PSP VOR is virgin territory for me. First question has to do with actually transiting the Banning Pass. From the Palm Springs VOR, I see you can hug the right side (going west) via the DEWAY intersection or you can hug the left side by going via the BANDS intersection. Is it better to "Keep Right" in each direction? Next Issue: Looking at the LA TAC, once you get over or abeam the Banning airport, there are three flyways. One goes off to the NW to get around Ontario. One goes to the Paradise VORTAC via Riverside (staying north of March ARB) and one goes more to the SW directly over March ARB to Lake Matthews (VPLLM) and then intersects another flyway going NW to the Paradise VORTAC and then to Chino. My gut tells me maybe the SW route over March to Lake Matthews might be better as it gets you off the straightline route through the pass and Lake Matthews would work as a checkpoint for TOD. I could even go from Lake Matthews to the Corona airport and get a good approach angle to Chino from the SSE. This way, I'd also stay SW of the Paradise VOR and maybe help avoid converging traffic? How active is March these days? Trash Haulers? Fast Movers? So, maybe my route over would be: P19 (Stellar Airpark) GBN (Gila Bend VOR) (Quickest way out from under the Phoenix Class B..They sometimes will approve an early climb direct to SADLL) VICKO BLH (Blythe VOR) CONES PSP (Palm Springs VOR) DEWAY or VPLBP (Banning Pass Reporting Point) KRIV (March ARB) VPLLM (Lake Matthews) KAJO (Corona Airport) KCNO (Chino) Coming back, I could just depart Chino and head direct (or as direct as possible) to the VPLBP point and proceed on the reverse of the above. If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for them... I plan to park in the NW corner of transient parking in order to walk to the museum. TIA, Jay Beckman PP-ASEL Chandler, AZ Mike Alexander PP-ASEL Temecula, CA See my online aerial photo album at http://flying.4alexanders.com |
#5
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Wow... that must have taken 25 minutes to transition through the PSP
airspace. I flew from F70 to KPSP on Mothers Day last year... Took no time at all one direction, but about twiuce the time the other... Can not remember which way too longer, but probably coming from PSP to F70. Came through the pass the other day and had a 60 knot head win. "Mike 'Flyin'8'" wrote in message .. . Mike Alexander PP-ASEL Temecula, CA See my online aerial photo album at http://flying.4alexanders.com |
#6
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On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:38:46 -0700, "Jay Beckman"
wrote in : Greetings All... I've been wanting to fly from the Phoenix area to Chino, CA to get a bite at Flo's and see the Planes of Fame Museum. You're going to love it. Consider visiting the Robert Pond museum on KPSP airport too: http://www.air-museum.org/ . The former has a lot of arcane aircraft and memorabilia. The latter is chock full of WW-II war birds in better than new condition! The Wx looks like it will cooperate for Wednesday but I have a couple of questions for any pilots who know this part of the LA Basin and how best to deal with getting through the Banning Pass. First, whenever you're within 100 miles of LA burn a landing light to increase your conspicuity. Traffic can be thicker within the narrow Banning Pass. I have flown as far as Palm Springs but beyond the PSP VOR is virgin territory for me. So then you're familiar with the Palm Sprints TRSA. Remember, those TRSA controllers are providing radar traffic advisories on a WORK PERMITTINE BASIS. I've had them fail to advise me of conflicting traffic more than once. If they start vectoring you all over the place, remember you can tell them "Negative Stage Three," and go your own way. Do contact SoCal Approach to receive traffic advisories, it makes transiting any Class B, C or D airspace easier, as they'll clear you through it. (I know you're probably aware of these issues, but I'd be derelict if I failed to mention them.) First question has to do with actually transiting the Banning Pass. From the Palm Springs VOR, I see you can hug the right side (going west) via the DEWAY intersection or you can hug the left side by going via the BANDS intersection. Is it better to "Keep Right" in each direction? You can do it direct or any way you like, but I keep to the right when in the pass. It's best if you have a plan, as it's easier to advise ATC of your intended route. But it looks like you intend to do that. Next Issue: Looking at the LA TAC, once you get over or abeam the Banning airport, there are three flyways. One goes off to the NW to get around Ontario. One goes to the Paradise VORTAC via Riverside (staying north of March ARB) and one goes more to the SW directly over March ARB to Lake Matthews (VPLLM) and then intersects another flyway going NW to the Paradise VORTAC and then to Chino. My gut tells me maybe the SW route over March to Lake Matthews might be better as it gets you off the straightline route through the pass and Lake Matthews would work as a checkpoint for TOD. I could even go from Lake Matthews to the Corona airport and get a good approach angle to Chino from the SSE. This way, I'd also stay SW of the Paradise VOR and maybe help avoid converging traffic? How active is March these days? March has been converted to a Reserve base. I've never seem much activity there. Trash Haulers? Fast Movers? So, maybe my route over would be: P19 (Stellar Airpark) GBN (Gila Bend VOR) (Quickest way out from under the Phoenix Class B..They sometimes will approve an early climb direct to SADLL) VICKO BLH (Blythe VOR) CONES PSP (Palm Springs VOR) DEWAY or VPLBP (Banning Pass Reporting Point) KRIV (March ARB) VPLLM (Lake Matthews) KAJO (Corona Airport) KCNO (Chino) Check out the ILS Rnwy 26R approach plate he http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0612/05599IL26R.PDF I'd go direct PDZ then DEWYE intersection, sort of a left base entry for 26R. Expect a lot of traffic at KAJO, some NORDO. Coming back, I could just depart Chino and head direct (or as direct as possible) to the VPLBP point and proceed on the reverse of the above. If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for them... I plan to park in the NW corner of transient parking in order to walk to the museum. TIA, Jay Beckman PP-ASEL Chandler, AZ It's a busy chunk of airspace. Stay high as long as is comfortable, as the traffic density down low can be intimidating. You're going to love the museums. Have fun. |
#7
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Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
Took no time at all one direction, but about twice the time the other... Cannot remember which way too longer, but probably coming from PSP to F70. No time = 0 Last time I had math, 2 x 0 = 0 :-)) |
#8
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No time = 0
Last time I had math, 2 x 0 = 0 Maybe he was using an early pentium. ![]() Jose -- He who laughs, lasts. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#9
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Always interesting when you come back from the desert and find the
basin socked in. I came back one time, heading for TOA, and found solid undercast. But LGB and TOA were reproting 1200-ft ceilings and there's usually a hole in the stratus right over LA harbor. Sure enough, when I got aound Ontario, I could see a dark spot off in that direction. Smug and happy, I flew to it. (No TCAs or classes of control zones in those days.) Sure, enough, it was a hole, but when I looked down through it, what I saw was the Avalon casino and Catalina harbor! Don |
#10
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I am building a couple houses in Bullhead area so I have been making that
trip a couple of times a week when weather is good. |
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