dirty oil

[Dan Luke]

The oil in my Lyc. O-360 F1A6 is black only two hours after being changed.

What could be causing this? Compressions were in the 70s at annual in
September.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Mike Noel]

Sounds like some serious blow-by into the crankcase. If you don't have an
oil separator on the breather, I would expect also to see a very dirty
belly. How about having a mechanic re-check the compression and look at
the inside of the cylinders?

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

I'm a uniter, not a divider. - GWB, 1999.

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> The oil in my Lyc. O-360 F1A6 is black only two hours after being changed.
>
> What could be causing this? Compressions were in the 70s at annual in
> September.
>
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>

[Rip]

Dan Luke wrote:
> The oil in my Lyc. O-360 F1A6 is black only two hours after being changed.
>
> What could be causing this? Compressions were in the 70s at annual in
> September.
>
Have you changed the TYPE of oil, by any chance? Going from a mineral
based AD oil (like Phillips XC) to a semisynthetic (like Exxon Elite or
Aeroshell), can flush out deposits that have been accumulating for a
long, long time. If so, things will improve with further oil changes,
but you may want to change the oil and filter again soon.

Rip

[[email protected]]

That is true when going from a non detergent oil to a detergent oil.
Phillips XC is an ashless dispersant oil, as are most aviation oils.
Only the straight mineral oil (ie. break-in oil) is not an AD oil. I
don't think avaition oils are considered detergent oils. Marvel
Mystery Oil is effectively a detergent oil and can loosen deposits
that have built up. Word is MMO works if you use it from the start of
an overhaul run to keep valves from sticking. If you put it in an
engine with 1000 hrs on it, you risk the danger of loosening the
deposits that have built up, and possibly blocking small oil
passsages.

Bud


On Jan 28, 3:44 pm, Rip > wrote:
> Dan Luke wrote:
> > The oil in my Lyc. O-360 F1A6 is black only two hours after being changed.
>
> > What could be causing this? Compressions were in the 70s at annual in
> > September.Have you changed the TYPE of oil, by any chance? Going from a mineral
> based AD oil (like Phillips XC) to a semisynthetic (like Exxon Elite or
> Aeroshell), can flush out deposits that have been accumulating for a
> long, long time. If so, things will improve with further oil changes,
> but you may want to change the oil and filter again soon.
>
> Rip

[[email protected]]

Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe. Good
catch.

Regards,
Bud

On Jan 28, 7:02 am, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> The oil in my Lyc. O-360 F1A6 is black only two hours after being changed.
>
> What could be causing this? Compressions were in the 70s at annual in
> September.
>
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM

[Dan Luke]

"Rip" > wrote:

>>
> Have you changed the TYPE of oil, by any chance?

Nope. Aeroshell W100 Plus, same as always.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Dan Luke]

> wrote:

> Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.

Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil is
from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the oil is
changed.

He said I would have noticed this before if I had ever checked it two hours
after a change. Since I check the oil before every flight, it seems I would
have noticed the oil's turning black this soon before.

Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[Nathan Young]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:49:26 -0600, "Dan Luke"
> wrote:

>
> wrote:
>
>> Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.
>
>Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil is
>from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the oil is
>changed.
>
>He said I would have noticed this before if I had ever checked it two hours
>after a change. Since I check the oil before every flight, it seems I would
>have noticed the oil's turning black this soon before.
>
>Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?

Your mechanic's comment sounds unrealistic. I have a hard time
believing the 1/2 quart in the cooler & lines could add enough
coloration to the 7-8 quarts of new/clean oil.

Further, I don't notice my oil turning black until many hours after
the change. (Lyc O-360 using Aeroshell 15W50), and I never flush the
cooler during a change.

Is your oil a dark black? Or just a tinge of coloration?

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:49:26 -0600, "Dan Luke" >
wrote:

>
> wrote:
>
>> Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.
>
>Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil is
>from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the oil is
>changed.
>
>He said I would have noticed this before if I had ever checked it two hours
>after a change. Since I check the oil before every flight, it seems I would
>have noticed the oil's turning black this soon before.
>
>Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?

Dan,

I have a Lyc IO360 and the oil definitely does not turn black after two
hours. At two hours, it is still so light that I have trouble reading the
dipstick!

And I also have an oil cooler that does not get drained during the oil
change.

Aeroshell 15W50


--ron

[dlevy]

How fast does it burn oil? My engine had fine compression but the valve
hardware was worn out. The oil got black real quick. Let me guess.....
there was a period of inactivity? Do you foul plugs? When was the last
overhaul? In my case, the overhaul was 17 years old. It finally hiccuped
in cruise flight. I had it overhauled.

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote:
>
>> Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.
>
> Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil
> is from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the
> oil is changed.
>
> He said I would have noticed this before if I had ever checked it two
> hours after a change. Since I check the oil before every flight, it seems
> I would have noticed the oil's turning black this soon before.
>
> Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?
>
> --
> Dan
> C-172RG at BFM
>

[Ross]

Nathan Young wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:49:26 -0600, "Dan Luke"
> > wrote:
>
>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.
>>
>>Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil is
>
>>from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the oil is
>
>>changed.
>>
>>He said I would have noticed this before if I had ever checked it two hours
>>after a change. Since I check the oil before every flight, it seems I would
>>have noticed the oil's turning black this soon before.
>>
>>Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?
>
>
> Your mechanic's comment sounds unrealistic. I have a hard time
> believing the 1/2 quart in the cooler & lines could add enough
> coloration to the 7-8 quarts of new/clean oil.
>
> Further, I don't notice my oil turning black until many hours after
> the change. (Lyc O-360 using Aeroshell 15W50), and I never flush the
> cooler during a change.
>
> Is your oil a dark black? Or just a tinge of coloration?
>

I have a Lyc O-360 on my Cessna and there is a oil cooler. I have never
had dirty oil after only a couple of hours of operation. I would keep
looking.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Kyle Boatright]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote:
>
>> Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.
>
> Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil
> is from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the
> oil is changed.
>
> He said I would have noticed this before if I had ever checked it two
> hours after a change. Since I check the oil before every flight, it seems
> I would have noticed the oil's turning black this soon before.
>
> Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?
>
> --
> Dan
> C-172RG at BFM

My 0-320 powered RV has an oil cooler with the associated plumbing. The oil
still looks like honey 20 and more hours after a change. It has never been
dark after only a few hours.

You could perform a simple compression check. Turn the mags off, chock the
airplane, and pull the top plug from each cylinder. With someone else slowly
rotating the prop, do a thumb test over the plug hole for compression on all
4 cylinders. You should be able to notice if one cylinder is considerably
worse than the others.

As always, treat the engine/prop as if the engine is going to start abruptly
anytime you're moving the prop.

KB

[[email protected]]

I would test your mechanics theory by doing another oil change, this
time making sure I drained the cooler and changed the filter (which I
always do since my cooler has a drain cap, and like the others who
have stated so, my oil stays so clean for several hours after a change
that it is hard to read the dipstick in certain light situations). See
what happens then. You can keep the oil you have now and use it a
quart at a time in the near future if all is OK.
Also, the Cardinal club has a technical page (members only), that
shows an owner who made a small slim light from a flashlight bulb and
wire that was small enough to fit thru the spark plug hole. If you
remove both plugs, and slide the light in one hole and look through
the other, you can see if the cylinder is glazed or if there is a
major problem. Not as good as borescope, but better than nothing.
As a matter of fact, I put a reworked cylinder on #4 of my O-360
8 hrs ago. I am still running the Mineral break in oil, and the oil is
still almost clear and it is hard to read the stick, even though I
don't have fully seated rings yet on one ccylinder (chrome cylinder),
and I did not change the filter when I put the break in oil in since I
only do that every other oil change, and I am going to change back to
AD at 10 hours when I will change the filter, drain the cooler, and
add Aeroshell 15W-50.
I have had a forced landing, and can tell you from experience,
you must do whatever you need to, to prevent having one yourself.
Keeping that fan turning matters as much as anything there is. I was
lucky with no injury or damage. I am sure my next time I will not be
so fortunate. Know what you are dealing with!!

Regards,
Bud

On Jan 29, 11:49 am, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> > Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil is
> from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the oil is
> changed.
>
> He said I would have noticed this before if I had ever checked it two hours
> after a change. Since I check the oil before every flight, it seems I would
> have noticed the oil's turning black this soon before.
>
> Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?
>
> --
> Dan
> C-172RG at BFM

[[email protected]]

Also, I would send a sample of the oil in the engine to a good lab
like Spectro or Blackstone. See if there is a large amount of metal in
it.

Bud


On Jan 29, 11:49 am, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> > Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil is
> from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the oil is
> changed.
>
> He said I would have noticed this before if I had ever checked it two hours
> after a change. Since I check the oil before every flight, it seems I would
> have noticed the oil's turning black this soon before.
>
> Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?
>
> --
> Dan
> C-172RG at BFM

[A Lieberma]

Nathan Young > wrote in
:

> Further, I don't notice my oil turning black until many hours after
> the change. (Lyc O-360 using Aeroshell 15W50), and I never flush the
> cooler during a change.

For what it's worth.....

I have never had oil discolored significantly before 5 hours running time.
Right around 10 hours does the oil start to look like used oil in my
Lycoming AK4 360 engine.

Allen

[Roger[_4_]]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:49:26 -0600, "Dan Luke"
> wrote:

>
> wrote:
>
>> Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.
>
>Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil is
>from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the oil is
>changed.
>
>He said I would have noticed this before if I had ever checked it two hours
>after a change. Since I check the oil before every flight, it seems I would
>have noticed the oil's turning black this soon before.

I guess it's possible, but on the Deb the oil stays clean until around
15 to 20 hours and that is without an oil filter. Compression is in
the low 70s. If you take the breather cap off and pull the prop
through by hand, the old girl really wheezes. Doesn't use a drop of
oil between changes though, well at least not enough to notice on the
dip stick.

>
>Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?

I think I'd have the compression checked at least
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Stan Prevost[_1_]]

Dan, I guess a lot of things can contribute to rapid blackening of the oil,
but in all cases it will be because some black stuff is being added to the
oil, and there is some source of the black stuff. In a previous Lyc
TIO-540-S1AD, I had bad exhaust valve guides. Hot gases blew through the
sloppy guides and burned oil in the rocker box. There was lots of black
stuff in the rocker box, and oil and suspended black stuff drains from there
back into the engine.

For pix, see http://aviation.sprevost.net/Engine-Photos/Cyl-Nr-1.jpg and

http://aviation.sprevost.net/Engine-Photos/Cyl-Nr-2.jpg for a bad one and a
good one.

Compressions were good until the problem got really bad. Then valve springs
and anything else that gets in the way gets burned.

It is easy to see if you have this problem by opening the rocker boxes.

Stan



"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote:
>
>> Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.
>
> Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil
> is from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the
> oil is changed.
>
> He said I would have noticed this before if I had ever checked it two
> hours after a change. Since I check the oil before every flight, it seems
> I would have noticed the oil's turning black this soon before.
>
> Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?
>
> --
> Dan
> C-172RG at BFM
>

[Dan Luke]

"dlevy" > wrote:

> How fast does it burn oil?

1 qt/7.5 hours.

> there was a period of inactivity?

No.

> Do you foul plugs?

No.

> When was the last overhaul?

2001


--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Dan Luke]

"Stan Prevost" > wrote:
> Compressions were good until the problem got really bad. Then valve springs
> and anything else that gets in the way gets burned.
>
> It is easy to see if you have this problem by opening the rocker boxes.

Good idea. Thanks, Stan.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stan Prevost ]
> Posted At: Monday, January 29, 2007 11:38 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
> Conversation: dirty oil
> Subject: Re: dirty oil
>
....
> ... In a previous Lyc
> TIO-540-S1AD, I had bad exhaust valve guides. Hot gases blew through
the
> sloppy guides and burned oil in the rocker box. There was lots of
black
> stuff in the rocker box, and oil and suspended black stuff drains from
> there back into the engine.
>
> For pix, see http://aviation.sprevost.net/Engine-Photos/Cyl-Nr-1.jpg
and
>
> http://aviation.sprevost.net/Engine-Photos/Cyl-Nr-2.jpg for a bad one
and
> a
> good one.
>

Outstanding example photos Stan. Thanks...

[Michelle P]

Dan Luke wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Definitely have an A&P borescope that engine. Broken ring maybe.
>
>
> Talked to my mechanic this morning. He said not to worry; the dirty oil is
> from the oil cooler and its plumbing, which don't get drained when the oil is
> changed.
>
>
> Should I pay to have the cylinders 'scoped?
>
Not sure I would completely believe this one. less than 1qt in 8 should
not turn the oil black. It will discolor it but it should not be black.
We had the oil in an engine on one of our 337s turn black in a couple of
hours. I talked to my boss (also an A&P) about this and we pulled the
engine and replaced it. Something was definitely wrong.

Michelle

[stearmandriver]

there are other possibilities also. Have you changed fuel suppliers,
or maybe gone from avgas to mogas or mogas to avgas? Some fuels burn
a bit more slowly than others as a function of just what the actual
octane is. If burning slower, it will create more carbon in the
exhaust, go past the ring gap,then thru the valve guide clearances.
Or, your mixture control could be screwed up, and it's not leaning the
way it did.

In general, it's good to know what the usual behavior of one's engine
is. Black oil soon after change in some engines isn't always evidence
of a problem, I drive an old radial engined beast, and even after
overhaul, with the clearances and low normal compression, the oil is
black in 2 hours, tops. the thing having been designed to run on 70
octane doesn't help, either, with modern hi-octane only. Just thought
I'd mention this in case someone else who has the problem panics
before they find out it's normal for their engine.

Looking in the rocker boxes is a good start, however.

[Stan Prevost]

So, Dan, how did this turn out?


"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> The oil in my Lyc. O-360 F1A6 is black only two hours after being changed.
>
> What could be causing this? Compressions were in the 70s at annual in
> September.
>
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>

[Dan Luke]

"Stan Prevost" wrote:

> So, Dan, how did this turn out?
>

No unusual deposits under the valve covers.

The airplane is going into Teledyne Continental's shop in Fairhope tomorrow to
have the cylinders scoped. Will advise.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Dan Luke]

"Stan Prevost" wrote:

> So, Dan, how did this turn out?


Friday, I took the airplane to Teledyne Continental's shop in Fairhope, AL
for a "second opinion" on the engine.

Just got the report: the engine seems fine. Compressions are ok, crankcase
pressure is ok, cylinders all looked good when bore-scoped.

This mechanic said the same thing my regular mechanic said about the dirty
oil: it most likely came from the oil cooler and associated plumbing which
doesn't get drained at oil change unless you pull a line off the cooler.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[Denny]

No one I know breaks the connections and drains the cooler at routine
oil changes...
if the oil is changed before it turns black then the oil cooler will
not have black sludge left in it.. The contained oil will be no
dirtier than what was drained and is diluted by the fresh oil...
Frequent oil changes is the solution...

Now, if you have a pan heater and you are coking your oil with so
called 'preheats' than that residue and char will collect where the
oil flow is the lowest, which is the cooler where the Vernatherm stops
the flow... The cure is to stop using the pan heater...

If you recently changed oil types to one that is more aggressively
detergent which acted as a solvent and loosened the gunk in the
cooler, then this is likely a one time issue... A self curing
situation...

GL .... denny

[Stan Prevost[_1_]]

Thanks for the update, Dan, and glad it is not anything serious. Someone
said that as long as the engine makes full power and doesn't make metal,
don't worry about compressions etc. Presumably that covers black oil too.

Stan


"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> "Stan Prevost" wrote:
>
>> So, Dan, how did this turn out?
>
>
> Friday, I took the airplane to Teledyne Continental's shop in Fairhope, AL
> for a "second opinion" on the engine.
>
> Just got the report: the engine seems fine. Compressions are ok,
> crankcase pressure is ok, cylinders all looked good when bore-scoped.
>
> This mechanic said the same thing my regular mechanic said about the dirty
> oil: it most likely came from the oil cooler and associated plumbing which
> doesn't get drained at oil change unless you pull a line off the cooler.
>
> --
> Dan
> C-172RG at BFM
>

[Montblack]

("Denny" wrote)
> No one I know breaks the connections and drains the cooler at routine oil
> changes...
> if the oil is changed before it turns black then the oil cooler will not
> have black sludge left in it.. The contained oil will be no dirtier than
> what was drained and is diluted by the fresh oil...
> Frequent oil changes is the solution...


Doing our (vehicle) oil changes, I drain the old oil. I use a "flush filter"
that goes on next. I add (less expensive oil) and run the car for 20
minutes - while I clean up from the first batch.

On my second oil change, the "flush filter" gets drained and returned to its
(labeled) box on the shelf. A fresh filter is used, then I add my good oil
and I'm all set.

When I do it this way in my cars, the oil stays golden (like new) for 3,000
miles. If I do it the normal way, my drain oil looks like ...drain oil,
after 3,000 miles.

Does anyone do this with their planes - an oil flush, then a change?

For our cars, it adds about $5 to a driveway oil change. I buy a new "flush
filter" every year.


Montblack-gold

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Montblack" > wrote:

> Does anyone do this with their planes - an oil flush, then a change?

I don't.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

[Roger[_4_]]

On 5 Mar 2007 12:55:43 -0800, "Denny" > wrote:

>
>
>No one I know breaks the connections and drains the cooler at routine
>oil changes...
>if the oil is changed before it turns black then the oil cooler will
>not have black sludge left in it.. The contained oil will be no
>dirtier than what was drained and is diluted by the fresh oil...
>Frequent oil changes is the solution...
>

Lordy,
I don't even have a filter and the oil is black when I change it at 25
hours. However it takes it 15 to 20 hours before the new oil darkens
much.

>Now, if you have a pan heater and you are coking your oil with so
>called 'preheats' than that residue and char will collect where the
>oil flow is the lowest, which is the cooler where the Vernatherm stops
>the flow... The cure is to stop using the pan heater...

I use the Tanis which is temperature controlled or rather limited.
It'll peak at somewhat under 50C. Hot enough if you just stick your
hand in there you will jump back, but cool enough that when you expect
it you can put your hand on the pan or cylinder heads and leave it
there.

Dipstick sump heaters are notorious for coking up.

>
>If you recently changed oil types to one that is more aggressively
>detergent which acted as a solvent and loosened the gunk in the
>cooler, then this is likely a one time issue... A self curing
>situation...

Remember the old cars that got a dose of detergent oil after years of
non detergent?

>
>GL .... denny
>
73

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger[_4_]]

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 00:02:33 -0500, Bob Noel
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "Montblack" > wrote:
>
>> Does anyone do this with their planes - an oil flush, then a change?
>
>I don't.
I don't even use a filter.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Ross]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Denny" wrote)
>
>>No one I know breaks the connections and drains the cooler at routine oil
>>changes...
>>if the oil is changed before it turns black then the oil cooler will not
>>have black sludge left in it.. The contained oil will be no dirtier than
>>what was drained and is diluted by the fresh oil...
>>Frequent oil changes is the solution...
>
>
>
> Doing our (vehicle) oil changes, I drain the old oil. I use a "flush filter"
> that goes on next. I add (less expensive oil) and run the car for 20
> minutes - while I clean up from the first batch.
>
> On my second oil change, the "flush filter" gets drained and returned to its
> (labeled) box on the shelf. A fresh filter is used, then I add my good oil
> and I'm all set.
>
> When I do it this way in my cars, the oil stays golden (like new) for 3,000
> miles. If I do it the normal way, my drain oil looks like ...drain oil,
> after 3,000 miles.
>
> Does anyone do this with their planes - an oil flush, then a change?
>
> For our cars, it adds about $5 to a driveway oil change. I buy a new "flush
> filter" every year.
>
>
> Montblack-gold
>
>

Boy, that's a lot of work. I just make sure I change the oil every 3K
miles with new filter and my cars always go better than 200K miles. I
had a Prelude that went 250K before I sold it and I have a '97 Camry
that is ready to turn 200K on my way home today.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Montblack]

("Ross" wrote)
> Boy, that's a lot of work. I just make sure I change the oil every 3K
> miles with new filter and my cars always go better than 200K miles.


75% of the work is deciding to "change the oil today."

Cardboard
Oil pans
Empty gallon milk jugs
Paper towels
Oil changing t-shirt
Go-Jo hand cleaner
Assembling the quarts
Move the other car
Funnel
Wrench

It doesn't add much time running the flush batch through. Everything is
already set up.

Beer
Folding chair
Radio
Left-over pizza


Montblack

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Ross" wrote)
>> Boy, that's a lot of work. I just make sure I change the oil every 3K
>> miles with new filter and my cars always go better than 200K miles.
>
>
> 75% of the work is deciding to "change the oil today."
>
> Cardboard
> Oil pans
> Empty gallon milk jugs

The best $10 I ever spent was on one of those 12 qt.oil drain pans that
you can seal up. I drain the oil, then take the pan around the corner
to Acme or the transfer station and dump it into the used oil tank. No
pouring into jugs, no disgusting funnels. Easy!

I can do both the truck and the Jeep with one used oil dumping trip.

[Ross]

Montblack wrote:
> ("Ross" wrote)
>
>>Boy, that's a lot of work. I just make sure I change the oil every 3K
>>miles with new filter and my cars always go better than 200K miles.
>
>
>
> 75% of the work is deciding to "change the oil today."
>
> Cardboard
> Oil pans
> Empty gallon milk jugs
> Paper towels
> Oil changing t-shirt
> Go-Jo hand cleaner
> Assembling the quarts
> Move the other car
> Funnel
> Wrench
>
> It doesn't add much time running the flush batch through. Everything is
> already set up.
>
> Beer
> Folding chair
> Radio
> Left-over pizza
>
>
> Montblack
>
>

Mine is even easier. Which "Grease and Go" to I go to today. Other the
other hand, I change the oil in the plane each time.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Mike Noel]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Ross" wrote)
>> Boy, that's a lot of work. I just make sure I change the oil every 3K
>> miles with new filter and my cars always go better than 200K miles.
>
>
> 75% of the work is deciding to "change the oil today."
>
> Cardboard
> Oil pans
> Empty gallon milk jugs

You carry those milk jugs over to the recycling center, right Montblack?

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.

[Montblack]

("Mike Noel" wrote)
> You carry those milk jugs over to the recycling center, right Montblack?


Yes, and it's best not to let (whatever) sit in a plastic milk carton for
too long. I've had them leak after a few months. I don't know what all I had
in one - or maybe it got kicked? All I know is, one day there was a mess on
the floor.

I store, and transport them, in a (cardboard lined) milk crate - trani
fluid, oil, anti-freeze. Each in its own jug.


MontGreen

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Ross wrote:
> Which "Grease and Go" to I go to today.

Mobil 1 at my local "Grease & Go" is way overpriced. The local quickie
lube tore (and bought replacements for $50 each) (4) fender liners in a
row on my '96 Nissan King Cab until they figured out that the screws
weren't snaps. That truck was so difficult to change the oil I acquiesced.

FWIW, my '05 Toyota Tacoma has the oil filter mounted ON TOP of the
engine, complete with a little tray that accepts a 20 oz. soda bottle to
catch the drips! My '99 Wrangler is relatively easy, as well.

I also get to eyeball the belts, hoses, wires, clutch and brake fluid
levels (for hints on wear), etc... while I'm there. And I _like_ doing
it, with a cold microbrew! <G>

OTOH, I watch our mechanic do the Sundowner.

[Ross]

B A R R Y wrote:
> Ross wrote:
>
>> Which "Grease and Go" to I go to today.
>
>
> Mobil 1 at my local "Grease & Go" is way overpriced. The local quickie
> lube tore (and bought replacements for $50 each) (4) fender liners in a
> row on my '96 Nissan King Cab until they figured out that the screws
> weren't snaps. That truck was so difficult to change the oil I acquiesced.
>
> FWIW, my '05 Toyota Tacoma has the oil filter mounted ON TOP of the
> engine, complete with a little tray that accepts a 20 oz. soda bottle to
> catch the drips! My '99 Wrangler is relatively easy, as well.
>
> I also get to eyeball the belts, hoses, wires, clutch and brake fluid
> levels (for hints on wear), etc... while I'm there. And I _like_ doing
> it, with a cold microbrew! <G>
>
> OTOH, I watch our mechanic do the Sundowner.

When I am at the Grease and Go I am standing at the front of the car
watching that I am getting what I am paying for (all the things you
mentioned). Toyotas have a odd way of mounting the filter - upside down.
One my O-360 it comes straight out the back, but still a mess if you are
not careful.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Ross wrote:
> Toyotas have a odd way of mounting the filter - upside down.

It's not so odd. Mine is empty when you remove it. Nothing to spill! <G>

> One my O-360 it comes straight out the back, but still a mess if you are
> not careful.

Our O-360 has a remote installation, so it's on the firewall. We could
easily do the plane ourselves, but we have a good setup with the
mechanic. He's a one man operation. He sweeps the snow off the plane
when we're not around (for all his regulars), lets us wash and wax the
plane in his hangar, wheels it inside when we need a defrost, answers
and provides spot inspections for preflight questions, and we use his
shop bathroom and fridge. His oil changes are excellent values! ;^)

[[email protected]]

Montblack > wrote:
> Doing our (vehicle) oil changes, I drain the old oil. I use a "flush
> filter" that goes on next. I add (less expensive oil) and run the car
> for 20 minutes - while I clean up from the first batch.
>
> On my second oil change, the "flush filter" gets drained and returned
> to its (labeled) box on the shelf. A fresh filter is used, then I add
> my good oil and I'm all set.

I know a few people who like to do a similar thing for old^Wclassic cars
with engines of unknown provenance. If the engine is not showing obvious
signs of distress like low compression, huge oil leaks, lots of end play
on the crankshaft, or poor power (measured by an ANSI standard seat-of-
the-pants test), they do oil changes on short intervals, like 200 or 300
miles, until the oil stops turning black shortly after the oil change.
Once that happens, they go to an interval of somewhere between 1500 to
3000 miles. The oil does get dark by the end of this longer interval.

Many of the engines are old enough to not have oil filters as we know
them, so a "flush filter" isn't used for this process. This is also why
some of the owners prefer a "normal" change interval that is pretty short
by new-car standards. They don't expect this treatment to get them
another 100,000 miles before a rebuild or swap, but they do think it
helps the engine last a little longer than it ordinarily would. This
gives them a bit more time to drive the car and work out the rest of
the problems, and to get the parts together for an engine rebuild.

Matt Roberds

[NVArt]

I'm sorry; I have to ask: Did you SEE the oil changed?
>
> "Dan Luke" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > "Stan Prevost" wrote:
>
> >> So, Dan, how did this turn out?

> > Friday, I took the airplane to Teledyne Continental's shop in Fairhope, AL
> > for a "second opinion" on the engine.
>
> > Just got the report: the engine seems fine. Compressions are ok,
> > crankcase pressure is ok, cylinders all looked good when bore-scoped.
>
> > This mechanic said the same thing my regular mechanic said about the dirty
> > oil: it most likely came from the oil cooler and associated plumbing which
> > doesn't get drained at oil change unless you pull a line off the cooler.
>
> > --
> > Dan
> > C-172RG at BFM

[Dan Luke]

"NVArt" wrote:

> I'm sorry; I have to ask: Did you SEE the oil changed?
>>

Changed it myself.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[Ray Andraka]

Montblack wrote:

> ("Mike Noel" wrote)
>
>>You carry those milk jugs over to the recycling center, right Montblack?
>
>
>
> Yes, and it's best not to let (whatever) sit in a plastic milk carton for
> too long. I've had them leak after a few months. I don't know what all I had
> in one - or maybe it got kicked? All I know is, one day there was a mess on
> the floor.
>
> I store, and transport them, in a (cardboard lined) milk crate - trani
> fluid, oil, anti-freeze. Each in its own jug.
>
>
> MontGreen
>
>

the oil apparently breaks down the plastic in milk jugs. Several times
I've had them leak when they sat in my garage for several weeks waiting
for me to get around to burying them in the back yard (just kidding,
they go to the recycling center, which is inconveniently located across
town in the direction we almost never go).

[Mike Noel]

Perhaps there are closer places you haven't found yet. I usually take the
containers to Pep Boys, but Checker Auto also takes the oil for recycling.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> Montblack wrote:
>
>> ("Mike Noel" wrote)
>>
>>>You carry those milk jugs over to the recycling center, right Montblack?
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, and it's best not to let (whatever) sit in a plastic milk carton for
>> too long. I've had them leak after a few months. I don't know what all I
>> had in one - or maybe it got kicked? All I know is, one day there was a
>> mess on the floor.
>>
>> I store, and transport them, in a (cardboard lined) milk crate - trani
>> fluid, oil, anti-freeze. Each in its own jug.
>>
>>
>> MontGreen
>>
>>
>
> the oil apparently breaks down the plastic in milk jugs. Several times
> I've had them leak when they sat in my garage for several weeks waiting
> for me to get around to burying them in the back yard (just kidding, they
> go to the recycling center, which is inconveniently located across town in
> the direction we almost never go).

[Ray Andraka]

Mike Noel wrote:

> Perhaps there are closer places you haven't found yet. I usually take the
> containers to Pep Boys, but Checker Auto also takes the oil for recycling.
>

The town dump accepts oil for recycling at no charge. The gas stations
all charge a sizable fee. Hence, the cross-town trek.

[Mike Noel]

That's unfortunate. Everyone seems to accepts the oil for free in Arizona,
probably to avoid giving anyone an excuse for illegal dumping.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Noel wrote:
>
>> Perhaps there are closer places you haven't found yet. I usually take
>> the containers to Pep Boys, but Checker Auto also takes the oil for
>> recycling.
>>
>
> The town dump accepts oil for recycling at no charge. The gas stations
> all charge a sizable fee. Hence, the cross-town trek.