Re: Rolling a Non Aerobat 150

[Tom Inglima]

Spins have NEVER been in the private pilot PTS. The PTS (Practical Test
Standard) only has been in existence for around 20 years or so. The last
time spins were required for a Private Certificate was back in the early
1950's or maybe the late 1940's. Note that there is nothing that prevents
an instructor from teaching spins to a student pilot. However you would
have to wear parachutes to be legal since the regs only allow spins without
the wearing of parachutes for people training for a flight instructor
certificate.

The predecessor for the PTS was the Flight Test Guides. These were slim
volumes of not more than 20 pages and about 2 or 3 inches wide and about 4
inches high. In any case they were smaller than a 3 by 5 index card. they
had very broad descriptions of maneuvers' and gave examiners and inspectors
wide latitude in what and how they wanted you to perform various maneuvers.
Part 61 was actually a much better regulation then in that it clearly made
the CFI responsible for preparing a competent pilot that was able to show
good judgment.

The predecessor regs and guidance was to list the actual maneuvers in the
reg. If you could get a monkey to somehow do the maneuver a certificate
would be issued.

Tom Inglima

"Chris G." <nospam@noemail> wrote in message
eenews.net...
> Besides, spin training is NOT required for a private pilot certificate.
> Spin AWARENESS (aka recognizing you're going to get into a spin) is
> required. Spins are not part of the PTS anymore though.
>
> I don't necessarily think that omitting spins from the PTS is the best
> move the FAA has made, but I don't know the whole story. I know I'm
> having my instructor make sure he teaches me spins in the 150 I'm learning
> in. I believe that training in spins and spin recovery is a very
> important skills that could save my life one day.
>
> Chris
>
>
> wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:46:42 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
>> <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote:
>>
>>
> wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>On 27 Apr 2005 09:43:30 -0700, "Noah Fiedel" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In addition, were you & your instructor wearing parachutes
>>>>>as required for aerobatic flight?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Not required, since spin training is required for a rating.
>>>
>>>Looked to me like a roll not a spin.
>>
>>
>> Oooops.
>>
>> Never mind.
>>
>>
>>

[RST Engineering]

Note that what is said here is not true. The regs say that you can teach
any maneuver that is "required for a rating" without parachutes. This
includes spins. You can teach a student spins without a parachute(s) if
you wish.

Jim


Note that there is nothing that prevents
> an instructor from teaching spins to a student pilot. However you would
> have to wear parachutes to be legal since the regs only allow spins
> without the wearing of parachutes for people training for a flight
> instructor certificate.

[Ron Natalie]

RST Engineering wrote:
> Note that what is said here is not true. The regs say that you can teach
> any maneuver that is "required for a rating" without parachutes. This
> includes spins. You can teach a student spins without a parachute(s) if
> you wish.
>
Actually the regulation specifically mentions spins. It doesn't
matter they were required for a rating or not. The "required
for a rating" part applies to the "and other maonouvers".

The FAA has affirmed that once a manouver is required in
training (not necessarily for the checkride) for any rating
it's fare game for ANY instructional use at any time.

Except of course, while using MSFS.

[Jose]

> Actually the regulation specifically mentions spins. It doesn't
> matter they were required for a rating or not.

Well, not quite. See below:

> (2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the
> regulations for any certificate or rating when given by-

That is, "Spins and other...", which means something different from
"Spins, and other..."

Jose
--
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[vincent p. norris]

> The last time spins were required for a Private Certificate was back in the early
>1950's or maybe the late 1940's.

I can verify that spins were required in 1947.

vince norris