Route Planning

[Kevin Clarke]

Question for folks who've done this a heck of a lot more than me.

How do you plan routes? I have a PA28-180/G that I fly. The navdata is
always kept up to date so I can always file /G. Which I suppose might be
the best answer here. But the vagaries of ATC, especially in the
Northeast US make me wonder just how does the system work? I'd like to
understand this because it can make getting my clearances a heck of a
lot easier and efficient. Most of my x-ctry flights will be between 75
and say 200NM.

Another difference I've noted is getting my clearance on the ground
before takeoff out of KFIT (uncontrolled field) versus getting my
clearance in the air while in VFR but en route. Let's say I want to fly
IFR from KFIT to KBDL. I would file GDM V106 BAF BDL, if I get my
clearance in the air it would be one thing, if I got it on the ground
Boston Appch would have me go right turn 090 climb and maintain 4000
then hand me off. In other words, turn the wrong direction east rather
than west.

Then there is the whole question of TEC versus IFR Preferred Routes. Are
there references available that talk about how this factors into route
planning?

Thanks for any and all input,
KC

[Tim]

Did your CFII not cover this? I suggest getting some instruction in
this area. You may also want to call an ATC facility.

I think you answered your question with :

"Then there is the whole question of TEC versus IFR Preferred Routes.
Are there references available that talk about how this factors into
route planning?"

You hit the nail on the head right there. That is the reference. Those
are the factors. Those are (more than likely) what you will get in the
northeast. Use the TEC when available - if you are at the lower
altitudes, which is more than likely - and then use the preferred
routes. I assume you know these are in the AFD.

The turn by Boston is likely the agreement between two facilities or
control sectors/areas. You are doing the right thing by asking this
question, but this really should have been covered by your CFII.

Kevin Clarke wrote:
> Question for folks who've done this a heck of a lot more than me.
>
> How do you plan routes? I have a PA28-180/G that I fly. The navdata is
> always kept up to date so I can always file /G. Which I suppose might be
> the best answer here. But the vagaries of ATC, especially in the
> Northeast US make me wonder just how does the system work? I'd like to
> understand this because it can make getting my clearances a heck of a
> lot easier and efficient. Most of my x-ctry flights will be between 75
> and say 200NM.
>
> Another difference I've noted is getting my clearance on the ground
> before takeoff out of KFIT (uncontrolled field) versus getting my
> clearance in the air while in VFR but en route. Let's say I want to fly
> IFR from KFIT to KBDL. I would file GDM V106 BAF BDL, if I get my
> clearance in the air it would be one thing, if I got it on the ground
> Boston Appch would have me go right turn 090 climb and maintain 4000
> then hand me off. In other words, turn the wrong direction east rather
> than west.
>
> Then there is the whole question of TEC versus IFR Preferred Routes. Are
> there references available that talk about how this factors into route
> planning?
>
> Thanks for any and all input,
> KC

[Kevin Clarke]

Tim wrote:
> Did your CFII not cover this? I suggest getting some instruction in
> this area. You may also want to call an ATC facility.
We went over it briefly when we started on x-ctry planning. And even
then only the Preferred Routes. But it was mostly dismissed with a ,
"you never get the route you filed for anyway in the Northeast." Which
has been my experience and thus my question. I was taught how to plan a
route, but I've yet to get one I filed. So I wanted to understand what
goes on behind the scenes.

The Jepp book doesn't cover it very well. Instrument flying handbook
from the FAA covers it a little. So for TEC the handbook sez I should
include that in the Remarks section. What would I put in there? "TEC
Please". :-)

I do know that they are in the A/FD but not all the airports that I
would want to fly to are covered. For instance, KFIT to KBHB. There is
no TEC route for that, so how would that work?

Thanks again.

KC
>
>
> I think you answered your question with :
>
> "Then there is the whole question of TEC versus IFR Preferred Routes.
> Are there references available that talk about how this factors into
> route planning?"
>
> You hit the nail on the head right there. That is the reference.
> Those are the factors. Those are (more than likely) what you will get
> in the northeast. Use the TEC when available - if you are at the
> lower altitudes, which is more than likely - and then use the
> preferred routes. I assume you know these are in the AFD.
>
> The turn by Boston is likely the agreement between two facilities or
> control sectors/areas. You are doing the right thing by asking this
> question, but this really should have been covered by your CFII.
>
> Kevin Clarke wrote:
>> Question for folks who've done this a heck of a lot more than me.
>>
>> How do you plan routes? I have a PA28-180/G that I fly. The navdata
>> is always kept up to date so I can always file /G. Which I suppose
>> might be the best answer here. But the vagaries of ATC, especially in
>> the Northeast US make me wonder just how does the system work? I'd
>> like to understand this because it can make getting my clearances a
>> heck of a lot easier and efficient. Most of my x-ctry flights will be
>> between 75 and say 200NM.
>>
>> Another difference I've noted is getting my clearance on the ground
>> before takeoff out of KFIT (uncontrolled field) versus getting my
>> clearance in the air while in VFR but en route. Let's say I want to
>> fly IFR from KFIT to KBDL. I would file GDM V106 BAF BDL, if I get my
>> clearance in the air it would be one thing, if I got it on the ground
>> Boston Appch would have me go right turn 090 climb and maintain 4000
>> then hand me off. In other words, turn the wrong direction east
>> rather than west.
>>
>> Then there is the whole question of TEC versus IFR Preferred Routes.
>> Are there references available that talk about how this factors into
>> route planning?
>>
>> Thanks for any and all input,
>> KC

[Andrey Serbinenko]

My CFII has always stressed the importance of getting familiar with
TEC and preferred routes when planning a XC flight. The experience
I got flying in the Northeast boils down to basically one thing:
you don't want to go against the flow. A lot of that "flow" is
indeed reflected in the TEC/PR, but for some smaller destination
airports and shorter flights there may not be anything there, so
you have to work your flight into the prevailing traffic flows over
the area you're flying in. Getting familiar with the ATC practices
and "usual routing" is important. A big help can be looking up what
kind of routing people get for your altitude on flightaware.com.
Also, incidentally I got a hold of a several-pages-long printout
of preferred departure routes from my airport to a few hundred other
fields -- a lot more detailed than TEC provided in AFD. Towers have
this kind of document e-mailed to them monthly or so, and I'm being
told that you can get a copy of it (or even get your e-mail address
added to their mailing list, like my CFII did). So far, 90% of the
time I get "cleared as filed" on my flights.


Andrey


Kevin Clarke > wrote:
> Tim wrote:
>> Did your CFII not cover this? I suggest getting some instruction in
>> this area. You may also want to call an ATC facility.
> We went over it briefly when we started on x-ctry planning. And even
> then only the Preferred Routes. But it was mostly dismissed with a ,
> "you never get the route you filed for anyway in the Northeast." Which
> has been my experience and thus my question. I was taught how to plan a
> route, but I've yet to get one I filed. So I wanted to understand what
> goes on behind the scenes.
>
> The Jepp book doesn't cover it very well. Instrument flying handbook
> from the FAA covers it a little. So for TEC the handbook sez I should
> include that in the Remarks section. What would I put in there? "TEC
> Please". :-)
>
> I do know that they are in the A/FD but not all the airports that I
> would want to fly to are covered. For instance, KFIT to KBHB. There is
> no TEC route for that, so how would that work?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> KC
>>
>>
>> I think you answered your question with :
>>
>> "Then there is the whole question of TEC versus IFR Preferred Routes.
>> Are there references available that talk about how this factors into
>> route planning?"
>>
>> You hit the nail on the head right there. That is the reference.
>> Those are the factors. Those are (more than likely) what you will get
>> in the northeast. Use the TEC when available - if you are at the
>> lower altitudes, which is more than likely - and then use the
>> preferred routes. I assume you know these are in the AFD.
>>
>> The turn by Boston is likely the agreement between two facilities or
>> control sectors/areas. You are doing the right thing by asking this
>> question, but this really should have been covered by your CFII.
>>
>> Kevin Clarke wrote:
>>> Question for folks who've done this a heck of a lot more than me.
>>>
>>> How do you plan routes? I have a PA28-180/G that I fly. The navdata
>>> is always kept up to date so I can always file /G. Which I suppose
>>> might be the best answer here. But the vagaries of ATC, especially in
>>> the Northeast US make me wonder just how does the system work? I'd
>>> like to understand this because it can make getting my clearances a
>>> heck of a lot easier and efficient. Most of my x-ctry flights will be
>>> between 75 and say 200NM.
>>>
>>> Another difference I've noted is getting my clearance on the ground
>>> before takeoff out of KFIT (uncontrolled field) versus getting my
>>> clearance in the air while in VFR but en route. Let's say I want to
>>> fly IFR from KFIT to KBDL. I would file GDM V106 BAF BDL, if I get my
>>> clearance in the air it would be one thing, if I got it on the ground
>>> Boston Appch would have me go right turn 090 climb and maintain 4000
>>> then hand me off. In other words, turn the wrong direction east
>>> rather than west.
>>>
>>> Then there is the whole question of TEC versus IFR Preferred Routes.
>>> Are there references available that talk about how this factors into
>>> route planning?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any and all input,
>>> KC

[Jose]

> But it was mostly dismissed with a , "you never get the route you filed for anyway in the Northeast." Which has been my experience and thus my question.

That is my experience also; I'm in the northeast too.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Kevin Clarke > said:
>clearance in the air it would be one thing, if I got it on the ground
>Boston Appch would have me go right turn 090 climb and maintain 4000
>then hand me off. In other words, turn the wrong direction east rather
>than west.

If I take off IFR from KGVQ (uncontrolled with an RCO from KROC), they'll
amend my clearance to head back towards the GEE VOR rather than in the
direction I want to go, because if I head off west I might be out of their
airspace before they pick me up on radar. But if conditions are VFR and I
were going west bound from KGVQ, I would file to pick up my clearance over
Buffalo.

You may be encountering a similar situation where they're trying to keep
you in their airspace until you're radar identified and talking to them.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
It could have been raining flaming bulldozers, and those idiots would have
been standing out there smoking, going 'hey, look at that John Deere burn!'
-- Texan AMD security guard

[Mitty]

If you can get a small group of interested pilots together, call and ask for a
tour of the nearest TRACON. At MSP, at least, they are very enthusiastic and
welcoming. For example, they have you sit down and plug in with a controller
for 1/2 hour or so. It is very informative to see and hear "their side" of the
situation. Part of the tour will probably be conference room briefing/Q&A
session and you'll have the perfect opportunity to ask these questions.

Same story if you are near an ARTCC. Go for a tour there too.

On 3/4/2007 12:01 PM, Kevin Clarke wrote the following:
> Question for folks who've done this a heck of a lot more than me.
>
> How do you plan routes? I have a PA28-180/G that I fly. The navdata is
> always kept up to date so I can always file /G. Which I suppose might be
> the best answer here. But the vagaries of ATC, especially in the
> Northeast US make me wonder just how does the system work? I'd like to
> understand this because it can make getting my clearances a heck of a
> lot easier and efficient. Most of my x-ctry flights will be between 75
> and say 200NM.
>
> Another difference I've noted is getting my clearance on the ground
> before takeoff out of KFIT (uncontrolled field) versus getting my
> clearance in the air while in VFR but en route. Let's say I want to fly
> IFR from KFIT to KBDL. I would file GDM V106 BAF BDL, if I get my
> clearance in the air it would be one thing, if I got it on the ground
> Boston Appch would have me go right turn 090 climb and maintain 4000
> then hand me off. In other words, turn the wrong direction east rather
> than west.
>
> Then there is the whole question of TEC versus IFR Preferred Routes. Are
> there references available that talk about how this factors into route
> planning?
>
> Thanks for any and all input,
> KC

[Bonehenge (B A R R Y)]

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:01:15 GMT, Kevin Clarke >
wrote:


>Thanks for any and all input,
>KC


BDL ATC is wonderful to work with! NYC & BOS are as well, _if_ you
have your act together when you call. NYC gave me "camera warnings"
one weekend, so I could photograph oddball foreign flag 747's as they
approached JFK one morning. How cool is that? <G>

I'd hold the BDL folks up to anyone as far as friendly and
professional.

It's busy airspace, but if your good with the radios and not chatty,
you'll do great.

[Bonehenge (B A R R Y)]

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:44:06 -0600, Mitty > wrote:

>If you can get a small group of interested pilots together, call and ask for a
>tour of the nearest TRACON. At MSP, at least, they are very enthusiastic and
>welcoming.

BDL is also very welcoming of tours.

[ArtP]

I have flown a number of IFR flights from just north of DC in the ADIZ
to Florida. The only thing I could count on was being sent toward EMI
until they found me on radar. After that the only thing I could count
on is not going south. I would be sent west to Martinsburg, WV or east
to the Chesapeake Bay.

Finally I figured that the best method is let DUETS pick a route.
Although I never got that either, I didn't have to spend a lot of time
planning on something that would not happen.

Maybe you should just file direct and then wait for them to give you
the route de jour. You might even actually get direct (but don't hold
your breath).

[Ray Andraka]

Jose wrote:

>> But it was mostly dismissed with a , "you never get the route you
>> filed for anyway in the Northeast." Which has been my experience and
>> thus my question.
>
>
> That is my experience also; I'm in the northeast too.
>
> Jose

Well, yes and no. If you fly a route a couple of times you can pretty
well predict what routing you are going to get. If you then file that,
you'll more often than not either get cleared as filed, or a full route
clearance that turns out to be exactly what you filed (for example, if I
file PVD ORW V16 ENO at 6000', they'll as often as not give me a full
route clearance that comes out PVD ORW V16 JFK V16 ENO or something
similar, but it is the route and altitude I filed, just with an extra
waypoint added, or sometimes with a V number added where I had two VORs
in a row in my file, or an alternate V number where two victor airways
overlap (V1 and V16 for example).

[[email protected]]

On Mar 4, 10:00 pm, Ray Andraka > wrote:
> Jose wrote:
> >> But it was mostly dismissed with a , "you never get the route you
> >> filed for anyway in the Northeast." Which has been my experience and
> >> thus my question.
>
> > That is my experience also; I'm in the northeast too.
>
> > Jose
>
> Well, yes and no. If you fly a route a couple of times you can pretty
> well predict what routing you are going to get. If you then file that,
> you'll more often than not either get cleared as filed, or a full route
> clearance that turns out to be exactly what you filed (for example, if I
> file PVD ORW V16 ENO at 6000', they'll as often as not give me a full
> route clearance that comes out PVD ORW V16 JFK V16 ENO or something
> similar, but it is the route and altitude I filed, just with an extra
> waypoint added, or sometimes with a V number added where I had two VORs
> in a row in my file, or an alternate V number where two victor airways
> overlap (V1 and V16 for example).


One way to see the commonly assigned routes ahead of time (shown to me
by my CFII) is to use
fltplan.com. This web site will show you the recently assigned routes
for the origin/destination airports
you specify. If you use it to file your flight plan, you can also see
what ATC has assigned you about 30 minutes *before*
you get in the plane and fire the engine up. I copy it down and every
time I have called up and gotten my
clearance, that's what I got.

At the flight school I go to (Panorama at HPN) , they have worked with
ATC (via the airport's aviation association) to get copies of all the
preferred and TEC routes to /from the airport in hardcopy form.

But if you use fltplan.com, you dont need to have this - its all in
their databases.

regards,
Jack

[[email protected]]

On Mar 6, 4:04 pm, wrote:

> But if you use fltplan.com, you dont need to have this - its all in
> their databases.

Interesting.

I thought that the plan you see is the filed plan delivered from the
FAA computers to the flight tracking web sites.

Another example:

www.flightaware.com

Hover the mouse over the status field. It will appear some 30 minutes
*after* you file the plan.

ak.

[[email protected]]

On Mar 6, 8:07 pm, wrote:
> On Mar 6, 4:04 pm, wrote:
>
> > But if you use fltplan.com, you dont need to have this - its all in
> > their databases.
>
> Interesting.
>
> I thought that the plan you see is the filed plan delivered from the
> FAA computers to the flight tracking web sites.
>
> Another example:
>
> www.flightaware.com
>
> Hover the mouse over the status field. It will appear some 30 minutes
> *after* you file the plan.
>
> ak.


You see both . You can see what recent routes other users got for the
same origin/destination pair *before*
you file, and then you can see what you actually got from ATC after
you file. If there is a preferred route for the
pair, it will tell you that as well.

thanks for the tip about flightware.