Overlay/Panel Lighting?

[Mike Spera]

I have a 74 Cherokee 140 that does not have any panel lighting other
than the red overhead. The 2 VOR/ILS indicators are internally lit as is
the VC compass and clock. These are all running off the one lone factory
dimmer. On full, the indicator lights will illuminate the cabin, so I
run them way down at night. I have already purchased the Piper panel
light fixtures and bulbs to put into the panel. This would require
adding a second dimmer and a half day or so labor to wire them up. The
second dimmer could be added via a minor modification, or I could put in
the later model switch panel (75 model and up) that already has 2
dimmers/wheels in it. Another several hours wrestling with the switches
would be required for the swap. Either way, this is a pretty big pain in
the butt for what will result in only marginal results.

Is there a better way? My goal would be minimal intrusion (read: little
or no FAA involvement) and expanse. Can I glue in some bulbs to the
plastic overlay and have a dimmer controls running to the cig lighter? I
saw a web site with "prewired" overlay panels, but that site looked like
it was partially abandoned as it was not working correctly. How about
those EL strips on the glareshield? Nu-lites? Other options?

I am a little leery of a "prewired overlay" because the 74 140 has a
somewhat unique overlay. I already sprung $220 for a new one and put
several hours labor into trimming it to fit. Not sure I want to give it
up to someone to add lights or buy another one to send out. I do like
the fact that it would be somewhat turnkey.

Anyone been here and done this? By the way, post lights are definitely
out. They would be way more work than the factory ones I already have
waiting in a box.

Thanks,
Mike

[Bob Noel]

In article et>,
Mike Spera > wrote:

[snip]
> Is there a better way? My goal would be minimal intrusion (read: little
> or no FAA involvement) and expanse....
> those EL strips on the glareshield? Nu-lites? Other options?
>
[snip]
> Anyone been here and done this? By the way, post lights are definitely
> out. They would be way more work than the factory ones I already have
> waiting in a box.

I have a '74 cherokee 140 and went with the nulites (google "PIREP nulite
instrument lights" in July 2006 in rec.aviation.owning.

It'll cost a bit (the nulites aren't cheap) and there is some labor to do
the job right. I don't remember exactly how much since it was done
while the airplane was down for the annual inspection .



==old post===
While I was down because of surgery I had the mechanic put
in nulites on the six-pack, the clock, and the suction gauge
(the turn coordinator was already lit). Tonight was the first
night I got to fly at night and these nulites beat the red
overhead light every which way. way cool

Highly recommended for airplanes without instrument
lights or post lights.
==old post ===

--
Bob Noel
(gave up lookingn for a particular sig the lawyer will)

[john smith]

In article >,
Bob Noel > wrote:

> In article et>,
> Mike Spera > wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > Is there a better way? My goal would be minimal intrusion (read: little
> > or no FAA involvement) and expanse....
> > those EL strips on the glareshield? Nu-lites? Other options?
> >
> [snip]
> > Anyone been here and done this? By the way, post lights are definitely
> > out. They would be way more work than the factory ones I already have
> > waiting in a box.
>
> I have a '74 cherokee 140 and went with the nulites (google "PIREP nulite
> instrument lights" in July 2006 in rec.aviation.owning.
>
> It'll cost a bit (the nulites aren't cheap) and there is some labor to do
> the job right. I don't remember exactly how much since it was done
> while the airplane was down for the annual inspection .
>
>
>
> ==old post===
> While I was down because of surgery I had the mechanic put
> in nulites on the six-pack, the clock, and the suction gauge
> (the turn coordinator was already lit). Tonight was the first
> night I got to fly at night and these nulites beat the red
> overhead light every which way. way cool
>
> Highly recommended for airplanes without instrument
> lights or post lights.

Google "electroluminescent light strips"

[JB]

On Mar 10, 10:13 am, Mike Spera > wrote:
> I have a 74 Cherokee 140 that does not have any panel lighting other
> than the red overhead. The 2 VOR/ILS indicators are internally lit as is
> the VC compass and clock. These are all running off the one lone factory
> dimmer. On full, the indicator lights will illuminate the cabin, so I
> run them way down at night. I have already purchased the Piper panel
> light fixtures and bulbs to put into the panel. This would require
> adding a second dimmer and a half day or so labor to wire them up. The
> second dimmer could be added via a minor modification, or I could put in
> the later model switch panel (75 model and up) that already has 2
> dimmers/wheels in it. Another several hours wrestling with the switches
> would be required for the swap. Either way, this is a pretty big pain in
> the butt for what will result in only marginal results.
>
> Is there a better way? My goal would be minimal intrusion (read: little
> or no FAA involvement) and expanse. Can I glue in some bulbs to the
> plastic overlay and have a dimmer controls running to the cig lighter? I
> saw a web site with "prewired" overlay panels, but that site looked like
> it was partially abandoned as it was not working correctly. How about
> those EL strips on the glareshield? Nu-lites? Other options?
>
> I am a little leery of a "prewired overlay" because the 74 140 has a
> somewhat unique overlay. I already sprung $220 for a new one and put
> several hours labor into trimming it to fit. Not sure I want to give it
> up to someone to add lights or buy another one to send out. I do like
> the fact that it would be somewhat turnkey.
>
> Anyone been here and done this? By the way, post lights are definitely
> out. They would be way more work than the factory ones I already have
> waiting in a box.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Mike, I have a 79 Warrior and have been unhappy with the nite lighting
for years. I took the little blue rubbers off the bulbs but that only
helped abit. There is no lighting on the ammeter or fuel/oil gauges.
I switch back and forth between the overhead light and one of those
camping headlamps. I sure would like to upgrade to either Nulites or
an EL strip under the glare shield. But I have co-owners to deal with
and the upgrade isn't high on their priority list even though I would
do the work.

Pls give us a PIREP on what you end up doing.

--Jeff

[Dave Butler]

Mike Spera wrote:
> I have a 74 Cherokee 140 that does not have any panel lighting other
> than the red overhead. The 2 VOR/ILS indicators are internally lit as is
> the VC compass and clock. These are all running off the one lone factory
> dimmer. On full, the indicator lights will illuminate the cabin, so I
> run them way down at night. I have already purchased the Piper panel
> light fixtures and bulbs to put into the panel. This would require
> adding a second dimmer and a half day or so labor to wire them up. The
> second dimmer could be added via a minor modification, or I could put in
> the later model switch panel (75 model and up) that already has 2
> dimmers/wheels in it. Another several hours wrestling with the switches
> would be required for the swap. Either way, this is a pretty big pain in
> the butt for what will result in only marginal results.
>
> Is there a better way? My goal would be minimal intrusion (read: little
> or no FAA involvement) and expanse. Can I glue in some bulbs to the
> plastic overlay and have a dimmer controls running to the cig lighter? I
> saw a web site with "prewired" overlay panels, but that site looked like
> it was partially abandoned as it was not working correctly. How about
> those EL strips on the glareshield? Nu-lites? Other options?
>
> I am a little leery of a "prewired overlay" because the 74 140 has a
> somewhat unique overlay. I already sprung $220 for a new one and put
> several hours labor into trimming it to fit. Not sure I want to give it
> up to someone to add lights or buy another one to send out. I do like
> the fact that it would be somewhat turnkey.
>
> Anyone been here and done this? By the way, post lights are definitely
> out. They would be way more work than the factory ones I already have
> waiting in a box.

FWIW I am happy with the electroluminescent lights with 9v battery
backup under the glareshield of the Mooney. There is existing panel
lighting under the glareshield eyebrow, and most of the instruements are
intenally lit also. The EL lights give several hours of possible
illumination on battery, were fairly inexpensive. For me they've mostly
a backup in case of electrical failure, but IMO you should consider them
as a possible primary source of lighting if you don't have anything else.

[[email protected]]

Mike Spera > wrote:
> The 2 VOR/ILS indicators are internally lit as is the VC compass and
> clock. These are all running off the one lone factory dimmer. On full,
> the indicator lights will illuminate the cabin, so I run them way down
> at night.

I wonder if it would be possible to install lower-wattage lamps in the
VOR/ILS indicators, or install a (fixed) resistor or diode in series
with the existing lamps in the indicators. This would let you turn the
dimmer knob up higher and have more light on your other instruments,
without the indicators blinding you.

A fixed resistor can be sized to give you pretty much whatever voltage
drop you want. You'll probably need a "power" type rated for at least
a few watts, and it needs to be mounted where it can get hot. If you
really want to be fancy, get one of the ones that comes in a finned
aluminum case with mounting lugs so it can be bolted down.

A diode will drop something like 0.6 V to 1 V; you can use a few in
series to drop more voltage. It will also get warm in use and needs to
be mounted where this isn't a problem. The most common diodes (1N400x
and 1N540x rectifiers) are just a lump with two wires sticking out like
a resistor. You can get diodes in TO-220 transistor cases with a
mounting/heatsink tab but these are not as common.

> Can I glue in some bulbs to the plastic overlay and have a dimmer
> controls running to the cig lighter?

I don't know if it's legal but it's electrically possible. All the
dimmer should need is 12 V and ground. You may want to make sure that
the plug you use fits the lighter really well.

If it's mechanically possible, you might consider the cig lighter plug
for your other options as well. Install the new lamp securely but
temporarily and wire it to a dimmer which then plugs into the lighter.
If you like it, you can get it wired more permanently.

Matt Roberds

Disclaimer: This is based on experience with illumination in ground
vehicles and in fixed installations. I don't have an A&P; I don't even
have a TG&Y. Some of this may not be allowable owner maintenance.
Your mileage may vary.

[RST Engineering]

Or you could do it the right way and design a switching regulator with
filtering for noise so that one output goes from x to y with control
rotation, another from w to z, and still a third (inverse) output from v to
u.

The reason you don't start at 0 and go to + supply is that most lamps will
last thousands of hours if they are prewarmed before running them up to
ratings. There is a bulb in a firehouse in New York that (check memory) has
been running since the early 1900s, dimly, but continuously. Reason? They
are running it at quarter voltage and it never gets that cold current spike
that will kill it.

The second output starts at some low warming voltage but only goes up so far
so as to not blind you when the first output goes nearly to the positive
rail.

You also need an inverse dimmer for lights that need to be bright during the
day (marker, warning, etc.) but dim at night.

Single control gets all three set correctly.

Jim


> wrote in message
...
> Mike Spera > wrote:
>> The 2 VOR/ILS indicators are internally lit as is the VC compass and
>> clock. These are all running off the one lone factory dimmer. On full,
>> the indicator lights will illuminate the cabin, so I run them way down
>> at night.
>
> I wonder if it would be possible to install lower-wattage lamps in the
> VOR/ILS indicators, or install a (fixed) resistor or diode in series
> with the existing lamps in the indicators. This would let you turn the
> dimmer knob up higher and have more light on your other instruments,
> without the indicators blinding you.
>
> A fixed resistor can be sized to give you pretty much whatever voltage
> drop you want. You'll probably need a "power" type rated for at least
> a few watts, and it needs to be mounted where it can get hot. If you
> really want to be fancy, get one of the ones that comes in a finned
> aluminum case with mounting lugs so it can be bolted down.

[Stephen N Mills]

>There is a bulb in a firehouse in New York that (check memory) has
>been running since the early 1900s, dimly, but continuously. Reason? They
>are running it at quarter voltage and it never gets that cold current spike
>that will kill it.


Actually, according to http://www.snopes.com/science/lightbulb.asp it
is in a firehouse in Livermore CA, since 1901 and is still (as can be
seen on the real-time lightbulb-cam
http://www.centennialbulb.org/photos.htm ) ON!

It has been off and on a few times, and they make no mention of
reduced voltage.


- Steve



On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:11:44 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote:

>Or you could do it the right way and design a switching regulator with
>filtering for noise so that one output goes from x to y with control
>rotation, another from w to z, and still a third (inverse) output from v to
>u.
>
>The reason you don't start at 0 and go to + supply is that most lamps will
>last thousands of hours if they are prewarmed before running them up to
>ratings. There is a bulb in a firehouse in New York that (check memory) has
>been running since the early 1900s, dimly, but continuously. Reason? They
>are running it at quarter voltage and it never gets that cold current spike
>that will kill it.
>
>The second output starts at some low warming voltage but only goes up so far
>so as to not blind you when the first output goes nearly to the positive
>rail.
>
>You also need an inverse dimmer for lights that need to be bright during the
>day (marker, warning, etc.) but dim at night.
>
>Single control gets all three set correctly.
>
>Jim
>
>
> wrote in message
...
>> Mike Spera > wrote:
>>> The 2 VOR/ILS indicators are internally lit as is the VC compass and
>>> clock. These are all running off the one lone factory dimmer. On full,
>>> the indicator lights will illuminate the cabin, so I run them way down
>>> at night.
>>
>> I wonder if it would be possible to install lower-wattage lamps in the
>> VOR/ILS indicators, or install a (fixed) resistor or diode in series
>> with the existing lamps in the indicators. This would let you turn the
>> dimmer knob up higher and have more light on your other instruments,
>> without the indicators blinding you.
>>
>> A fixed resistor can be sized to give you pretty much whatever voltage
>> drop you want. You'll probably need a "power" type rated for at least
>> a few watts, and it needs to be mounted where it can get hot. If you
>> really want to be fancy, get one of the ones that comes in a finned
>> aluminum case with mounting lugs so it can be bolted down.
>

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:11:44 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote:
> wrote in message
> ...
>> [Re: too-bright VOR/ILS indicators]
>> I wonder if it would be possible to install lower-wattage lamps in the
>> VOR/ILS indicators, or install a (fixed) resistor or diode in series
>> with the existing lamps in the indicators.
>
> Or you could do it the right way and design a switching regulator with
> filtering for noise so that one output goes from x to y with control
> rotation, another from w to z, and still a third (inverse) output
> from v to u.

Well, _you_ could do it the right way over the weekend. _I_ could do it
the right way after a couple of trips to Frank's Transistor Barn for
another 1-lb bag of MOSFETs to replace the ones I would blow up. :) In
the general case, IMHO, installing a lower-powered lamp is something any
repair station should be able to do, and installing an inline resistor or
diode is something that most repair stations could probably do. Also,
I know you mentioned filtering, but "switching power supply" and "AM
radio" makes me a little nervous.

> The reason you don't start at 0 and go to + supply is that most lamps
> will last thousands of hours if they are prewarmed before running them
> up to ratings.

I know some dimmers for stage use do this, but there, I think the
"warming" current that flows even with the knob on 0 is there to get the
lamp to respond faster when you suddenly turn up the knob. On AC, lamps
also last longer if switched at the zero crossings of the waveform.

Matt Roberds