TSA rule, what does this mean?

[Robert M. Gary]

As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page at www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does it
imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both "and"
and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.

-Robert

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
> follow from the TSA today...
>
> "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?
>
> Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
> citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
>
> ---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> certificate or type rating; and/or
>
> ---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
> facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
> whether in the U.S. or abroad."
>
> The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
> Questions page at www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.
>
> If you need further assistance, please contact or
> call (571) 227-4544."
>
> Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
> we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does it
> imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
> approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both "and"
> and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.
>
> -Robert

The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers somebody
coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
> > follow from the TSA today...
>
> > "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?
>
> > Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
> > citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
>
> > ---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> > territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> > certificate or type rating; and/or
>
> > ---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
> > facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
> > whether in the U.S. or abroad."
>
> > The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
> > Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.
>
> > If you need further assistance, please contact or
> > call (571) 227-4544."
>
> > Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
> > we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does it
> > imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
> > approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both "and"
> > and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.
>
> > -Robert
>
> The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers somebody
> coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will lead to an FAA
> certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
(which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
well?

-Robert

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> wrote:
>> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>> As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
>>> follow from the TSA today...
>>
>>> "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?
>>
>>> Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are
>>> not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
>>
>>> ---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
>>> territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
>>> certificate or type rating; and/or
>>
>>> ---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
>>> facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
>>> whether in the U.S. or abroad."
>>
>>> The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
>>> Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.
>>
>>> If you need further assistance, please contact or
>>> call (571) 227-4544."
>>
>>> Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
>>> we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does
>>> it imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
>>> approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both
>>> "and" and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.
>>
>>> -Robert
>>
>> The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers
>> somebody coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will
>> lead to an FAA certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
> (which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
> well?
>
> -Robert


You are trying to apply logic to the writings of government. Shame on you.

But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
Iranian government pays you to.

[Jose]

> But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
> to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
> Iranian government pays you to.

What if you are not a CFI? Can you do it then?

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 17, 9:45 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> > wrote:
> >> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> >>> As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
> >>> follow from the TSA today...
>
> >>> "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?
>
> >>> Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are
> >>> not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
>
> >>> ---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> >>> territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> >>> certificate or type rating; and/or
>
> >>> ---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
> >>> facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
> >>> whether in the U.S. or abroad."
>
> >>> The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
> >>> Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.
>
> >>> If you need further assistance, please contact or
> >>> call (571) 227-4544."
>
> >>> Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
> >>> we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does
> >>> it imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
> >>> approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both
> >>> "and" and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.
>
> >>> -Robert
>
> >> The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers
> >> somebody coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will
> >> lead to an FAA certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
> > (which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
> > well?
>
> > -Robert
>
> You are trying to apply logic to the writings of government. Shame on you.
>
> But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
> to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
> Iranian government pays you to.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If that is true, its a very major change in understanding. The current
understanding is that only certain ratings require TSA approval. Other
things (tailwheel endorsements, BFR, etc) do not require TSA approval.
The first part seems to change this and say any U.S. based CFI cannot
provide **ANY** training (recurrent or otherwise) to a non-TSA
approved student. This is a major change. Now I need to see your
passport in order to do an FBO check out (training not leading to a
rating).

-Robert

[Michael Nouak]

IMO:


"Robert M. Gary" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
oups.com...
> As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
> follow from the TSA today...
>
> "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?
>
> Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
> citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
>
> ---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> certificate or type rating; and/or

Suppose someone wants to attend one of the FL-based JAA schools; then that
person would be training in the US but the trainer would not necessarily be
FAA-certificated (e. g. he might only be a JAA FI(R)). _Regardless_, the
trainee must participate in the AFSP. This has nothing to do with a BFR.

"Or":

>
> ---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
> facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
> whether in the U.S. or abroad."

Said person wants to get an FAA PP cert somewhere in the US; or from an FAA
CFI somewhere in, say, Austria. Then that person must participate in the
AFSP.

"And": comes into play if said person wants to, e. g., get a JAA PPL _and_ a
FAA cert at the same time; e. g. from a JAA FI(R)/FAA CFI in FL.


IMO.

--
Michael Nouak
remove "nospamfor" to reply:

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 10:02 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 9:45 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > > On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > >>> As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
> > >>> follow from the TSA today...
>
> > >>> "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?
>
> > >>> Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are
> > >>> not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
>
> > >>> ---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> > >>> territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> > >>> certificate or type rating; and/or
>
> > >>> ---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
> > >>> facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
> > >>> whether in the U.S. or abroad."
>
> > >>> The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
> > >>> Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.
>
> > >>> If you need further assistance, please contact or
> > >>> call (571) 227-4544."
>
> > >>> Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
> > >>> we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does
> > >>> it imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
> > >>> approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both
> > >>> "and" and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.
>
> > >>> -Robert
>
> > >> The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers
> > >> somebody coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will
> > >> lead to an FAA certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
> > > (which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
> > > well?
>
> > > -Robert
>
> > You are trying to apply logic to the writings of government. Shame on you.
>
> > But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
> > to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
> > Iranian government pays you to.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> If that is true, its a very major change in understanding. The current
> understanding is that only certain ratings require TSA approval. Other
> things (tailwheel endorsements, BFR, etc) do not require TSA approval.
> The first part seems to change this and say any U.S. based CFI cannot
> provide **ANY** training (recurrent or otherwise) to a non-TSA
> approved student. This is a major change. Now I need to see your
> passport in order to do an FBO check out (training not leading to a
> rating).

No, the first part only says a US based CFI can't
provide any training while inside the US.

First paragraph - no training of any kind inside the US
or its territories.

Second paragraph - no training anywhere
in the world if the training would lead to a FAA
rating.


It sounds like, between these two paragraphs,
it restricts US based instructors from giving
training to non-approved students unless
the training happens abroad, and doesn't lead
to a FAA rating.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Jose wrote:
>> But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you
>> can't go to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the
>> TSA even if the Iranian government pays you to.
>
> What if you are not a CFI? Can you do it then?
>
> Jose

Sure, well at least the FAA wouldn't care. DHS might.

[Chris]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
> follow from the TSA today...
>
> "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?
>
> Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
> citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
>
> ---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> certificate or type rating; and/or
>
> ---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
> facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
> whether in the U.S. or abroad."
>
> The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
> Questions page at www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.
>
> If you need further assistance, please contact or
> call (571) 227-4544."
>
> Anyone understand what this means?

It means less foreign pilots going to the US to rent planes and fly. To do
so means having a US certificate even if it is issued on the back of the
foreign certificate. Therefore a BFR would also be required and with that
having a training element is now caught under the TSA stuff whereas it was
specifically excluded before because it made sense to.

It has long been a requirement for foreign based FAA CFIs to have students
go through the AFSP even if the training was being conducted in the foreign
base.

What does it mean - well I think I will do my renting in Canada now and my
training in Spain.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 17, 10:48 am, wrote:
> On Apr 17, 10:02 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 17, 9:45 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > > > On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > > >>> As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
> > > >>> follow from the TSA today...
>
> > > >>> "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?
>
> > > >>> Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are
> > > >>> not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
>
> > > >>> ---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> > > >>> territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> > > >>> certificate or type rating; and/or
>
> > > >>> ---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
> > > >>> facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
> > > >>> whether in the U.S. or abroad."
>
> > > >>> The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
> > > >>> Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.
>
> > > >>> If you need further assistance, please contact or
> > > >>> call (571) 227-4544."
>
> > > >>> Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
> > > >>> we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does
> > > >>> it imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
> > > >>> approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both
> > > >>> "and" and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.
>
> > > >>> -Robert
>
> > > >> The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers
> > > >> somebody coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will
> > > >> lead to an FAA certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
> > > > (which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
> > > > well?
>
> > > > -Robert
>
> > > You are trying to apply logic to the writings of government. Shame on you.
>
> > > But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
> > > to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
> > > Iranian government pays you to.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > If that is true, its a very major change in understanding. The current
> > understanding is that only certain ratings require TSA approval. Other
> > things (tailwheel endorsements, BFR, etc) do not require TSA approval.
> > The first part seems to change this and say any U.S. based CFI cannot
> > provide **ANY** training (recurrent or otherwise) to a non-TSA
> > approved student. This is a major change. Now I need to see your
> > passport in order to do an FBO check out (training not leading to a
> > rating).
>
> No, the first part only says a US based CFI can't
> provide any training while inside the US.
>
> First paragraph - no training of any kind inside the US
> or its territories.

RIght, so when you show up for your FBO checkout or BFR you must bring
your passport to prove that you do not need TSA approval. Now pilots
need to bring their passport before flying with any CFI for any
reason.

-robert

[BT]

Is everyone saying the rule has changed?

Getting a Flight Review or an FBO checkout is not "training", nor is adding
a tailwheel endorsement or high performance endorsement to an existing
rating.

This has been answered in previous information from TSA.

Time for more research?

BT


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
> follow from the TSA today...
>
> "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?
>
> Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
> citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
>
> ---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> certificate or type rating; and/or
>
> ---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
> facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
> whether in the U.S. or abroad."
>
> The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
> Questions page at www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.
>
> If you need further assistance, please contact or
> call (571) 227-4544."
>
> Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
> we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does it
> imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
> approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both "and"
> and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.
>
> -Robert
>

[BT]

Read the attached pdf file in the previous the link in the original posting

Flight training does not include "recurrent training" (Flight Reviews),
proficiency training (IFR Proficiency Check), etc for those that already
hold a US rating

Reading the entire attached file
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/IFR_Alien_Pilot.pdf from the Federal Register
tells me that nothing has changed from the original posting on Sept 20, 2004

BT


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
> follow from the TSA today...
>
> "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?
>
> Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
> citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
>
> ---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> certificate or type rating; and/or
>
> ---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
> facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
> whether in the U.S. or abroad."
>
> The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
> Questions page at www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.
>
> If you need further assistance, please contact or
> call (571) 227-4544."
>
> Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
> we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does it
> imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
> approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both "and"
> and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.
>
> -Robert
>

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 17, 3:32 pm, "BT" > wrote:
> Is everyone saying the rule has changed?
>
> Getting a Flight Review or an FBO checkout is not "training", nor is adding
> a tailwheel endorsement or high performance endorsement to an existing
> rating.
>
> This has been answered in previous information from TSA.
>
> Time for more research?


In one case they say "receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating", sounds like a larger scope of "training".
Let us know what your research shows though.

-Robert

[Blueskies]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message ...
: Jose wrote:
: >> But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you
: >> can't go to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the
: >> TSA even if the Iranian government pays you to.
: >
: > What if you are not a CFI? Can you do it then?
: >
: > Jose
:
: Sure, well at least the FAA wouldn't care. DHS might.
:
:

Here's the latest...Only TSA approved folks can use MS Flight Sim...


;-)

[BT]

Read the attached pdf file in the previous the link in the original posting

Flight training does not include "recurrent training" (Flight Reviews),
proficiency training (IFR Proficiency Check), etc for those that already
hold a US rating

Reading the entire attached file
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/IFR_Alien_Pilot.pdf from the Federal Register
tells me that nothing has changed from the original posting on Sept 20, 2004

BT


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Apr 17, 3:32 pm, "BT" > wrote:
>> Is everyone saying the rule has changed?
>>
>> Getting a Flight Review or an FBO checkout is not "training", nor is
>> adding
>> a tailwheel endorsement or high performance endorsement to an existing
>> rating.
>>
>> This has been answered in previous information from TSA.
>>
>> Time for more research?
>
>
> In one case they say "receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> certificate or type rating", sounds like a larger scope of "training".
> Let us know what your research shows though.
>
> -Robert
>

[Jose]

> Here's the latest...Only TSA approved folks can use MS Flight Sim...
> ;-)

Yeah, I see the smiley, but I'm not convinced it won't come to that.
Amazing it's still legal to teach chemistry.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Mxsmanic]

Jose writes:

> Amazing it's still legal to teach chemistry.

You don't see too many chemistry sets, though. They used to be popular; now
they are just a source of litigation. The few that exist have such a small
selection of harmless chemicals that they aren't worth the time.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 17, 7:06 pm, "BT" > wrote:
> Read the attached pdf file in the previous the link in the original posting
>
> Flight training does not include "recurrent training" (Flight Reviews),
> proficiency training (IFR Proficiency Check), etc for those that already
> hold a US rating
>
> Reading the entire attached filehttp://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/IFR_Alien_Pilot.pdffrom the Federal Register
> tells me that nothing has changed from the original posting on Sept 20, 2004
>
> BT
>
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Apr 17, 3:32 pm, "BT" > wrote:
> >> Is everyone saying the rule has changed?
>
> >> Getting a Flight Review or an FBO checkout is not "training", nor is
> >> adding
> >> a tailwheel endorsement or high performance endorsement to an existing
> >> rating.
>
> >> This has been answered in previous information from TSA.
>
> >> Time for more research?
>
> > In one case they say "receive flight training in the U.S. or its
> > territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
> > certificate or type rating", sounds like a larger scope of "training".
> > Let us know what your research shows though.
>
> > -Robert- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What do you think the "flight training not "lead(ing) to an FAA
certificate or type rating" refers to?

-Robert

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Jose writes:
>
>> Amazing it's still legal to teach chemistry.
>
> You don't see too many chemistry sets, though. They used to be
> popular; now they are just a source of litigation. The few that exist
> have such a small selection of harmless chemicals that they aren't
> worth the time.

What, can't get anyhting decent into your shoes, eh?

Bertie

[Mark T. Dame]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
> What do you think the "flight training not "lead(ing) to an FAA
> certificate or type rating" refers to?

"I don't care about landing, I just want to know how to fly it."

I've known a couple of people (and heard of others) who took lesson for
years with no intention of ever getting their license (or even soloing
in some cases). One example was an old guy who flew out of the first
FBO I flew out of. He had lots of money, but sucked as a pilot. He had
hundreds of hours, almost all of it dual. He loved flying, but knew he
wasn't any good at it, so he was satisfied to just fly around with
instructor.

The other type would be someone who can't get a medical, but wants to
fly. He/she could fly all they want with an instructor, but will never
get a certificate.

I suppose those cases could be looked at as glorified passenger rides,
but I would take that paragraph to mean these types of operations.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame >
## CP-ASEL, AGI
## <insert tail number here>
## KHAO, KISZ
"Genius is perseverance in disguise."

[Mxsmanic]

Nomen Nescio writes:

> Back in the early 70's when I was in High School, every Spring we
> had a one day event called "Seminar Day". On Seminar Day, the
> teachers would hold classes on subjects determined by a student
> vote. By far, the most popular seminar (which was finally moved to the
> auditorium after a couple of years, and was "standing room only") was
> titled "The Chemistry of Explosions". The end of the seminar featured
> a trip out to the athletic field to watch theory put into practice.
> I would hazard a guess that they don't do that anymore.

In high school we liked to play around with drops of mercury in our palms, or
sticking a finger in a beaker of mercury (difficult to to, actually, since
it's so heavy). But I read not long ago about a high school in which someone
found a drop of mercury on the floor and the entire school and neighborhood
was evacuated while hazmat teams moved in to clean up.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Nomen Nescio writes:
>
>> Back in the early 70's when I was in High School, every Spring we
>> had a one day event called "Seminar Day". On Seminar Day, the
>> teachers would hold classes on subjects determined by a student
>> vote. By far, the most popular seminar (which was finally moved to
>> the auditorium after a couple of years, and was "standing room only")
>> was titled "The Chemistry of Explosions". The end of the seminar
>> featured a trip out to the athletic field to watch theory put into
>> practice.
>> I would hazard a guess that they don't do that anymore.
>
> In high school we liked to play around with drops of mercury in our
> palms


Ahh, it becomes clearer now.


Berti e

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Mxsmanic wrote:

>
> In high school we liked to play around with drops of mercury in our
> palms, or sticking a finger in a beaker of mercury (difficult to to,
> actually, since it's so heavy).

That explains a lot.

From Wikipedia, "Mercury, like lead, is a neurotoxin, and elevated blood
mercury levels lead to retardation and deformities in children."

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[Maxwell]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Nomen Nescio writes:
>
>> Back in the early 70's when I was in High School, every Spring we
>> had a one day event called "Seminar Day". On Seminar Day, the
>> teachers would hold classes on subjects determined by a student
>> vote. By far, the most popular seminar (which was finally moved to the
>> auditorium after a couple of years, and was "standing room only") was
>> titled "The Chemistry of Explosions". The end of the seminar featured
>> a trip out to the athletic field to watch theory put into practice.
>> I would hazard a guess that they don't do that anymore.
>
> In high school we liked to play around with drops of mercury in our palms,
> or
> sticking a finger in a beaker of mercury (difficult to to, actually, since
> it's so heavy). But I read not long ago about a high school in which
> someone
> found a drop of mercury on the floor and the entire school and
> neighborhood
> was evacuated while hazmat teams moved in to clean up.
>

I could come up with a couple gallons of the old high quality lead based
paint, if you want to redo your bedroom, opps, I mean flight deck.

[Mxsmanic]

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

> From Wikipedia, "Mercury, like lead, is a neurotoxin, and elevated blood
> mercury levels lead to retardation and deformities in children."

Read all of the article, and especially read the separate article on mercury
poisoning.

> Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

You should try to. You might be surprised to learn who wrote some of those
articles.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_2_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>
>> From Wikipedia, "Mercury, like lead, is a neurotoxin, and elevated
>> blood mercury levels lead to retardation and deformities in
>> children."
>
> Read all of the article, and especially read the separate article on
> mercury poisoning.
>
>> Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
>
> You should try to. You might be surprised to learn who wrote some of
> those articles.
>

Bwawahwhhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahw!

Whoosh!


Bertie

[Blueskies]

"Jose" > wrote in message . net...
:> Here's the latest...Only TSA approved folks can use MS Flight Sim...
: > ;-)
:
: Yeah, I see the smiley, but I'm not convinced it won't come to that.
: Amazing it's still legal to teach chemistry.
:
: Jose
: --
: Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
: for Email, make the obvious change in the address.


Be safe...be very very safe....

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