TSA rule, what does this mean?

As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page at www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does it
imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both "and"
and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page at www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does it
imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both "and"
and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.

-Robert

The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers somebody
coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating.

On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does it
imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both "and"
and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.

-Robert

The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers somebody
coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
(which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
well?

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are
not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does
it imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both
"and" and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.

-Robert

The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers
somebody coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will
lead to an FAA certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
(which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
well?

-Robert


You are trying to apply logic to the writings of government. Shame on you.

But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
Iranian government pays you to.

But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
Iranian government pays you to.

What if you are not a CFI? Can you do it then?

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you
can't go to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the
TSA even if the Iranian government pays you to.

What if you are not a CFI? Can you do it then?

Jose

Sure, well at least the FAA wouldn't care. DHS might.

On Apr 17, 9:45 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are
not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does
it imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both
"and" and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.

-Robert

The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers
somebody coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will
lead to an FAA certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
(which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
well?

-Robert

You are trying to apply logic to the writings of government. Shame on you.

But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
Iranian government pays you to.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If that is true, its a very major change in understanding. The current
understanding is that only certain ratings require TSA approval. Other
things (tailwheel endorsements, BFR, etc) do not require TSA approval.
The first part seems to change this and say any U.S. based CFI cannot
provide **ANY** training (recurrent or otherwise) to a non-TSA
approved student. This is a major change. Now I need to see your
passport in order to do an FBO check out (training not leading to a
rating).

-Robert

On Apr 17, 10:02 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Apr 17, 9:45 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:



Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are
not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does
it imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both
"and" and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.

-Robert

The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers
somebody coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will
lead to an FAA certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
(which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
well?

-Robert

You are trying to apply logic to the writings of government. Shame on you.

But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
Iranian government pays you to.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If that is true, its a very major change in understanding. The current
understanding is that only certain ratings require TSA approval. Other
things (tailwheel endorsements, BFR, etc) do not require TSA approval.
The first part seems to change this and say any U.S. based CFI cannot
provide **ANY** training (recurrent or otherwise) to a non-TSA
approved student. This is a major change. Now I need to see your
passport in order to do an FBO check out (training not leading to a
rating).

No, the first part only says a US based CFI can't
provide any training while inside the US.

First paragraph - no training of any kind inside the US
or its territories.

Second paragraph - no training anywhere
in the world if the training would lead to a FAA
rating.


It sounds like, between these two paragraphs,
it restricts US based instructors from giving
training to non-approved students unless
the training happens abroad, and doesn't lead
to a FAA rating.

IMO:


"Robert M. Gary" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
oups.com...
As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

Suppose someone wants to attend one of the FL-based JAA schools; then that
person would be training in the US but the trainer would not necessarily be
FAA-certificated (e. g. he might only be a JAA FI(R)). _Regardless_, the
trainee must participate in the AFSP. This has nothing to do with a BFR.

"Or":


---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

Said person wants to get an FAA PP cert somewhere in the US; or from an FAA
CFI somewhere in, say, Austria. Then that person must participate in the
AFSP.

"And": comes into play if said person wants to, e. g., get a JAA PPL _and_ a
FAA cert at the same time; e. g. from a JAA FI(R)/FAA CFI in FL.


IMO.

--
Michael Nouak
remove "nospamfor" to reply:

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not
citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page at www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means?

It means less foreign pilots going to the US to rent planes and fly. To do
so means having a US certificate even if it is issued on the back of the
foreign certificate. Therefore a BFR would also be required and with that
having a training element is now caught under the TSA stuff whereas it was
specifically excluded before because it made sense to.

It has long been a requirement for foreign based FAA CFIs to have students
go through the AFSP even if the training was being conducted in the foreign
base.

What does it mean - well I think I will do my renting in Canada now and my
training in Spain.