Re: F-15 takeoffs

[Mary Shafer]

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 04:54:32 GMT, Guy Alcala
> wrote:

> Ah, I think I see where the confusion comes in. My "but" refers to them
> probably not being low enough (at 50-100 feet AGL, if Bob's estimate is
> accurate) to get the extra acceleration benefit from being in ground effect,

Just a confirmation that ground effect stops at about half the span
above the ground. We're talking about a fairly large airplane, not a
fighter, being in ground effect at 50-100'.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"Turn to kill, not to engage." LCDR Willie Driscoll, USN

[James Thomas]

No one knows if it was "combat effective", but it was surely "lots of fun",
and therefore a good thing to do.

Jim Thomas

Ed Rasimus wrote:

> Jesse > wrote:
>
> >> Bob McKellar wrote:
> >>
> >>>I was picking up a rental car this morning at my local
> >>>airport, where the ANG comes to play in the summer. Out the
> >>>window i saw a group of F-15's take off, 6 or 8 or so, one
> >>>at a time. Each one lifted off quickly, pulled up the gear,
> >>>but then flew the length of the 9,000 ft. runway at I guess
> >>>50-100 ft. altitude. At the far end, they pulled up briskly
> >>>and headed out to join up.
> >>>
> >>>My question is:
> >>>
> >>>Is there any practical reason to do it this way, or is it
> >>>just a way to show off?
>
> In a combat environment (where your airfield might be subject to
> attack), it's prudent to get to corner velocity (the min speed at
> which max G is available) and into a mutually supporting formation as
> quickly as possible. Or they could be exercising a low ceiling join-up
> scenario. But, most likely is just a showing off scenario.
> >>
> >
> >I remember when Phantoms use to be based by me.
> >I used to love them suckers as they ate up every inch of the runway that
> >they could get,and would often pass over my head at 15 feet or so in
> >full burner.
>
> Let me suggest that your recollection is a bit foggy. Even at max
> gross T/O (58,000 pounds) I never had an F-4 T/O roll exceed 4500
> feet. Since a NATO standard runway is 8000 and most USAF runways are
> 10,000 or more, "them suckers" don't eat up every inch. In a clean
> configuration (no tanks, missiles only) the F-4 would use about 2000
> feet.
>
> We used to do "tactical departures" out of Incirlik that involved
> formation take-off, gear/flaps up and level at 100 feet, remain in A/B
> and split to a 2500 foot spread at the end of the runway. Accelerate
> to 450 knots (420 was corner) and then cross-turn to reverse
> course--still at 100 feet and come back down the runway to depart
> southbound to our air/air play area. It was combat effective, lots of
> fun and the tower folks loved the show.
>
> Oh, and if the departing phantoms passed over your head at 15 feet or
> so in full burner, you'd be deaf, blind and burned today. I think
> you're exercising a bit of hyperbole.
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (ret)
> ***"When Thunder Rolled:
> *** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
> *** from Smithsonian Books
> ISBN: 1588341038

[James Thomas]

No one knows if it was "combat effective", but it was surely "lots of fun",
and therefore a good thing to do.

Jim Thomas

Ed Rasimus wrote:

> Jesse > wrote:
>
> >> Bob McKellar wrote:
> >>
> >>>I was picking up a rental car this morning at my local
> >>>airport, where the ANG comes to play in the summer. Out the
> >>>window i saw a group of F-15's take off, 6 or 8 or so, one
> >>>at a time. Each one lifted off quickly, pulled up the gear,
> >>>but then flew the length of the 9,000 ft. runway at I guess
> >>>50-100 ft. altitude. At the far end, they pulled up briskly
> >>>and headed out to join up.
> >>>
> >>>My question is:
> >>>
> >>>Is there any practical reason to do it this way, or is it
> >>>just a way to show off?
>
> In a combat environment (where your airfield might be subject to
> attack), it's prudent to get to corner velocity (the min speed at
> which max G is available) and into a mutually supporting formation as
> quickly as possible. Or they could be exercising a low ceiling join-up
> scenario. But, most likely is just a showing off scenario.
> >>
> >
> >I remember when Phantoms use to be based by me.
> >I used to love them suckers as they ate up every inch of the runway that
> >they could get,and would often pass over my head at 15 feet or so in
> >full burner.
>
> Let me suggest that your recollection is a bit foggy. Even at max
> gross T/O (58,000 pounds) I never had an F-4 T/O roll exceed 4500
> feet. Since a NATO standard runway is 8000 and most USAF runways are
> 10,000 or more, "them suckers" don't eat up every inch. In a clean
> configuration (no tanks, missiles only) the F-4 would use about 2000
> feet.
>
> We used to do "tactical departures" out of Incirlik that involved
> formation take-off, gear/flaps up and level at 100 feet, remain in A/B
> and split to a 2500 foot spread at the end of the runway. Accelerate
> to 450 knots (420 was corner) and then cross-turn to reverse
> course--still at 100 feet and come back down the runway to depart
> southbound to our air/air play area. It was combat effective, lots of
> fun and the tower folks loved the show.
>
> Oh, and if the departing phantoms passed over your head at 15 feet or
> so in full burner, you'd be deaf, blind and burned today. I think
> you're exercising a bit of hyperbole.
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (ret)
> ***"When Thunder Rolled:
> *** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
> *** from Smithsonian Books
> ISBN: 1588341038