Shooting at Lockheed Martin plant.

[Gil G.]

Heard on Fox News: Terrible report about a shooting at a Lockheed
Martin facility near Meridian MS. Seven people are reported dead,
including the shooter. Several people are also said to be injured.
There is no apparent link to terrorism.

I will post updates on planenews.com

Gil.

[John Godwin]

"Jeffrey" > wrote in news:vje9mkds9doa84
@corp.supernews.com:

> Also no apparent benefit to hiding under desks or behind doors.
>
> When will people ever learn that cowering is not an adequate self-defense
> measure?
>
> ARM YOURSELF.

I know of few companies that will permit you to carry on their premises.
You must not deter the criminal from exercising their apparent right to
kill you. I wish there were a Victims Justice System.

--
John Godwin
Silicon Rallye Inc.

[Keith Willshaw]

"John Godwin" > wrote in message
...
> "Jeffrey" > wrote in news:vje9mkds9doa84
> @corp.supernews.com:
>
> > Also no apparent benefit to hiding under desks or behind doors.
> >
> > When will people ever learn that cowering is not an adequate
self-defense
> > measure?
> >
> > ARM YOURSELF.
>
> I know of few companies that will permit you to carry on their premises.
> You must not deter the criminal from exercising their apparent right to
> kill you. I wish there were a Victims Justice System.
>

Most of those doing the shooting in such cases are also
employees or ex employees who had no criminal background
up until the time they went postal.

Keith

[Jim Yanik]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in
:

>
> "John Godwin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Jeffrey" > wrote in news:vje9mkds9doa84
>> @corp.supernews.com:
>>
>> > Also no apparent benefit to hiding under desks or behind doors.
>> >
>> > When will people ever learn that cowering is not an adequate
> self-defense
>> > measure?
>> >
>> > ARM YOURSELF.
>>
>> I know of few companies that will permit you to carry on their premises.
>> You must not deter the criminal from exercising their apparent right to
>> kill you. I wish there were a Victims Justice System.
>>
>
> Most of those doing the shooting in such cases are also
> employees or ex employees who had no criminal background
> up until the time they went postal.
>
> Keith
>
>
>

And I believe most of those types have prior histories of violence or
psychological problems.
Of course,they could have easily used a gallon of petrol and a lighter,or a
sword or large knife.

--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

[Keith Willshaw]

"Jim Yanik" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Keith Willshaw" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "John Godwin" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "Jeffrey" > wrote in news:vje9mkds9doa84
> >> @corp.supernews.com:
> >>
> >> > Also no apparent benefit to hiding under desks or behind doors.
> >> >
> >> > When will people ever learn that cowering is not an adequate
> > self-defense
> >> > measure?
> >> >
> >> > ARM YOURSELF.
> >>
> >> I know of few companies that will permit you to carry on their
premises.
> >> You must not deter the criminal from exercising their apparent right to
> >> kill you. I wish there were a Victims Justice System.
> >>
> >
> > Most of those doing the shooting in such cases are also
> > employees or ex employees who had no criminal background
> > up until the time they went postal.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> >
>
> And I believe most of those types have prior histories of violence or
> psychological problems.
> Of course,they could have easily used a gallon of petrol and a lighter,or
a
> sword or large knife.
>

Quite so and most employers dont like those on their premises either.

Keith

[Keith Willshaw]

"Drewe Manton" > wrote in message
...
> "Keith Willshaw" > waxed lyrical
> :
>
> > Quite so and most employers dont like those on their premises either.
> >
>
> They don't? That'll explain the edgy look I get from the boss when I show
> up with my Claymore then. Or perhaps it's the words "This end towards
> boss" engraved on the blade?
>

When I worked for McDermott Engineering London our terms
and conditions were obviously lifted straight from the US
version , one clause read

"Employees shall not bring firearms onto company premises
without written permission from their immediate supervisor'
'Shotguns and other long arms may be left in a vehicle in the
parking lot'

Keith

[Jim Yanik]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in
:

>
> "Drewe Manton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Keith Willshaw" > waxed lyrical
>> :
>>
>> > Quite so and most employers dont like those on their premises
>> > either.
>> >
>>
>> They don't? That'll explain the edgy look I get from the boss when I
>> show up with my Claymore then. Or perhaps it's the words "This end
>> towards boss" engraved on the blade?
>>
>
> When I worked for McDermott Engineering London our terms
> and conditions were obviously lifted straight from the US
> version , one clause read
>
> "Employees shall not bring firearms onto company premises
> without written permission from their immediate supervisor'
> 'Shotguns and other long arms may be left in a vehicle in the
> parking lot'
>
> Keith
>
>
>

So what stops a person intent on going on a killing spree? Are there armed
guards at all the entrances? Metal detectors? Maybe just a sign?


"weapon-free zone,no weapons allowed",that oughta work.Yup.

Ever notice the shooting sprees happen where it's supposed to be a "gun-
free" zone? No one will have the capability of firing back,guaranteed.

--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

[Drewe Manton]

Jim Yanik > waxed lyrical
:

> Ever notice the shooting sprees happen where it's supposed to be a
"gun-
> free" zone?

And by the same standard nearly every "shooting spree" carried out,
at least here in the UK, was carried out using legally held, properly
licensed weapons. In spite of my extreme opposition to the handgun ban
in this country, I do find that fact pretty telling.
Big fan of gun *control*, fierce opponent of gun *bans* here.

--
--------
Regards
Drewe
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

[Jim Yanik]

Drewe Manton > wrote in
. 4:

> Jim Yanik > waxed lyrical
> :
>
>> Ever notice the shooting sprees happen where it's supposed to be a
> "gun-
>> free" zone?
>
> And by the same standard nearly every "shooting spree" carried out,
> at least here in the UK, was carried out using legally held, properly
> licensed weapons. In spite of my extreme opposition to the handgun ban
> in this country, I do find that fact pretty telling.
> Big fan of gun *control*, fierce opponent of gun *bans* here.
>

That's probably because the ones who have illegal guns don't do 'shooting
sprees'. But don't the Yardies do 'drive-bys'? ISTR that they do a fair
amount of gun crime.

Your version of "gun control" is really *people* control,gun control is
hitting what you are firing at.

The authorities ever catch who killed Jill Dando,BBC commentator?

--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

[Keith Willshaw]

"Jim Yanik" > wrote in message
.. .
> Drewe Manton > wrote in
> . 4:
>
> > Jim Yanik > waxed lyrical
> > :
> >
> >> Ever notice the shooting sprees happen where it's supposed to be a
> > "gun-
> >> free" zone?
> >
> > And by the same standard nearly every "shooting spree" carried out,
> > at least here in the UK, was carried out using legally held, properly
> > licensed weapons. In spite of my extreme opposition to the handgun ban
> > in this country, I do find that fact pretty telling.
> > Big fan of gun *control*, fierce opponent of gun *bans* here.
> >
>
> That's probably because the ones who have illegal guns don't do 'shooting
> sprees'. But don't the Yardies do 'drive-bys'? ISTR that they do a fair
> amount of gun crime.
>

Drive by's are rather rare and make the national
headlines when they happen

> Your version of "gun control" is really *people* control,gun control is
> hitting what you are firing at.
>
> The authorities ever catch who killed Jill Dando,BBC commentator?
>

Yep he was a loner who had been thrown out of his local
gun club and the TA (equivalent to national guard)

Keith

[Drewe Manton]

Jim Yanik > waxed lyrical
:

> Your version of "gun control" is really *people* control,gun control is
> hitting what you are firing at.

No argument here. But then, some people need to be controlled and
certainly more than *some* people should be denied access to firearms,
and this is where I have the problem with the ban, it was a simplistic
knee-jerk reaction to poor vetting procedures which allowed unstable
people with a history of mental health problems to legally hold licenses
and firearms in spite of advice to the contrary (See Dunblane).

>
> The authorities ever catch who killed Jill Dando,BBC commentator?
>
Yup, man jailed a year or more ago.


--
--------
Regards
Drewe
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

[El Bastardo]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:58:12 +0000 (UTC), Jim Yanik
> wrote:

>Drewe Manton > wrote in
. 4:
>
>> Jim Yanik > waxed lyrical
>> :
>>
>>> Ever notice the shooting sprees happen where it's supposed to be a
>> "gun-
>>> free" zone?
>>
>> And by the same standard nearly every "shooting spree" carried out,
>> at least here in the UK, was carried out using legally held, properly
>> licensed weapons. In spite of my extreme opposition to the handgun ban
>> in this country, I do find that fact pretty telling.
>> Big fan of gun *control*, fierce opponent of gun *bans* here.
>>
>
>That's probably because the ones who have illegal guns don't do 'shooting
>sprees'. But don't the Yardies do 'drive-bys'? ISTR that they do a fair
>amount of gun crime.
>
>Your version of "gun control" is really *people* control,gun control is
>hitting what you are firing at.

Of course "gun control" is also "people control," but it makes more
sense to call it "gun control" than "people control" because everybody
knows "guns" are used by "people."

If you just called it "people control," nobody would have any fricking
idea what was being discussed. This is because "people" use many
things besides "guns."

Yes, "gun control" could be confused with the physical positioning of
a gun by a person, rather than legislative or judicial control of a
society's access to fireamrs. But I bet I can think of a hell of a lot
more alternate meanings of "people control" than "gun control."

By the way, I do own guns and am against bans on gun ownership. I just
get annoyed when people try to politisize semantics. As if it really
matters whether one calls the glass half full or half empty.

>
>The authorities ever catch who killed Jill Dando,BBC commentator?

[Jim Yanik]

El *******o <El > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:58:12 +0000 (UTC), Jim Yanik
> wrote:
>
>>Drewe Manton > wrote in
. 4:
>>
>>> Jim Yanik > waxed lyrical
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Ever notice the shooting sprees happen where it's supposed to be a
>>> "gun-
>>>> free" zone?
>>>
>>> And by the same standard nearly every "shooting spree" carried
>>> out,
>>> at least here in the UK, was carried out using legally held,
>>> properly licensed weapons. In spite of my extreme opposition to the
>>> handgun ban in this country, I do find that fact pretty telling.
>>> Big fan of gun *control*, fierce opponent of gun *bans* here.
>>>
>>
>>That's probably because the ones who have illegal guns don't do
>>'shooting sprees'. But don't the Yardies do 'drive-bys'? ISTR that
>>they do a fair amount of gun crime.
>>
>>Your version of "gun control" is really *people* control,gun control
>>is hitting what you are firing at.
>
> Of course "gun control" is also "people control," but it makes more
> sense to call it "gun control" than "people control" because everybody
> knows "guns" are used by "people."
>
> If you just called it "people control," nobody would have any fricking
> idea what was being discussed. This is because "people" use many
> things besides "guns."
>
> Yes, "gun control" could be confused with the physical positioning of
> a gun by a person, rather than legislative or judicial control of a
> society's access to fireamrs. But I bet I can think of a hell of a lot
> more alternate meanings of "people control" than "gun control."
>
> By the way, I do own guns and am against bans on gun ownership. I just
> get annoyed when people try to politisize semantics. As if it really
> matters whether one calls the glass half full or half empty.
>
>>
>>The authorities ever catch who killed Jill Dando,BBC commentator?
>
>

Well,my opinion on this is that most 'gun control' denies people their
choice to defend themselves and their homes/property,without due process.
And yes,there are many forms of "people control".

Most criminals seem well able to bypass gun control laws,if they wish to
have a firearm,no matter what country.

--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

[Jim Yanik]

PS;since this is off-topic for this NG,that's the last of my comments on
this.Feel free to visit talk.politics.guns for any further discussion.



--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

[Kerryn Offord]

Jim Yanik wrote:
>
> "Keith Willshaw" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Jim Yanik" > wrote in message
<SNIP>
> > Yep he was a loner who had been thrown out of his local
> > gun club and the TA (equivalent to national guard)
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> >
>
> Wouldn't that have resulted in the confiscation of his guns and permits? I
> also thought handguns had to be 'safe stored' in secure facilities like a
> gun club,in UK.
>


Using NZ as an example...
Individual gun owners can keep their firearms in their own home (in an
approved safe). The police (or suitable civilian) actually come round
and check your security arrangements. The weapon must be in the safe,
except when it is in transit to/from: a pistol club, a shooting event, a
gunsmith, the police..... during which time it must be kept in a secure
container at all times ... with a few exceptions.. like cleaning,
shooting at a range, examination by a suitable person.

Getting the boot from your gun club means that you shouldn't be able to
accumulate the required number of visits (but the police only check that
out annually... they don't worry about your day to day habits, just that
you attend at least 12 "club days" a year).

Unless the club actually tells the police that the individual has been
kicked out of their club the police won't know (and the individual could
join another club...).

The police would only be in a position to start proceedings to cancel
the individual's pistol licence if the club tell them that they no
longer believe that they are a suitable person to have a licence... and
the police will then have fun carrying through the cancellation of the
licence. Much easier to just step in if they fail to attend the required
number of club days (easier to prove the case).

Note that they won't seize the guns... the person will be given time to
dispose of them.