HE-111 crashes

[Ron]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/07/10/bomber.crash.ap/

CHEYENNE, Wyoming (AP) -- A World War II-era German bomber en route to an air
show crashed into a building under construction Thursday, killing the pilot and
his passenger, police said.

Witnesses said they heard a sputtering sound shortly before the twin-engine
HE-111 plowed through a chain link fence and slammed into the brick structure,
igniting a fire that lasted an hour, police Lt. Robert Korber said.

A construction worker who was inside the building -- an unfinished school bus
washing facility -- fled and escaped injury, said Tom Rooney of the Laramie
County school district.

The bomber was the last of its kind known to be flying in the world, said Tina
Corbett, spokeswoman for the Commemorative Air Force.

The plane belonged to the Arizona wing of the organization, which flies and
restores World War II aircraft. The plane was en route from Midland, Texas, to
an air show in Montana when the pilot reported engine failure, Corbett said.

The identities of the pilot and passenger were being withheld until their
families could be notified.

"The plane came down in a field," Korber said. "We're just grateful (the pilot)
probably made the decision that he saw a residential area in front of him and
decided to put it down where there were not a lot of houses, or this could have
been much, much worse."

[Jim Atkins]

Being a true lover of the sound of old airplanes flying, it pains me to say
this but isn't it time to stop flying irreplaceable and one-of-a-kind
planes? Every one lost is lost forever. Maybe it's time to face up to the
reality that aviation is fundamentally dangerous, and there is a risk
involved in flying the old birds. At some point we have to retire the old
beauties to a museum because if we don't, a history-making piece of
craftsmanship will be lost forever.

I know all of you out there join me in sending thoughts, prayers and
condolences to the families of the good men killed.
--
Jim Atkins
Twentynine Palms CA USA

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
- Groucho Marx

[NATrainer]

Fly is dangerous, but then again so is living.
The North American Trainer Association is a (501)[c]3 association dedicated to
the restoration, preservation and safe flying of all North American Aviation
built trainer aircraft (AT-6, SNJ, Harvard, NA-64, T-28, TF-51, TB-25). Dues
are $45.00 per year US

[Jake McGuire]

"Jim Atkins" > wrote in message >...
> Being a true lover of the sound of old airplanes flying, it pains me to say
> this but isn't it time to stop flying irreplaceable and one-of-a-kind
> planes? Every one lost is lost forever. Maybe it's time to face up to the
> reality that aviation is fundamentally dangerous, and there is a risk
> involved in flying the old birds. At some point we have to retire the old
> beauties to a museum because if we don't, a history-making piece of
> craftsmanship will be lost forever.

The article seemed to imply that this was the last *flying* He-111,
not the last one in existence. Putting it in a museum would just as
surely have reduced the number of flying He-111s to zero as augering
it into a cornfield did.

Two more people would be alive today, but I'm quite sure that they
knew the risks of flying a 60 year old aircraft and so I am not
willing to tell them that they made a mistake.

I say keep them flying.

-jake

[Jim Atkins]

Yes, it reduces the number of flying examples. But in a museum, at least you
have it to look at and photograph, instead of a smoking heap. These planes
are close to 60 years old, and the real things will never come back. There
is a time when they are too valuable to risk. I love the old birds too, but
we have to make a choice. I'd rather my grandchildren get to see one in the
flesh, instead of showing them a picture and telling them what a tragedy the
crash was.

--
Jim Atkins
Twentynine Palms CA USA

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
- Groucho Marx

[av8r]

Hi

I wish people would get their facts straight. It was not a Heinkel
He-111. It was a licence-built He-111H constructed by the Spanish firm
C.A.S.A. and designated the C.A.S.A. 2111 H-16. The most obvious
features are the pair of Rolls Royce Merlins in place of the Daimler
Benz inverted 'V' inline engines.

Cheers...Chris

[Patrick Marsden]

(Ron) wrote in message >...
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/07/10/bomber.crash.ap/
>
> CHEYENNE, Wyoming (AP) -- A World War II-era German bomber en route to an air
> show crashed into a building under construction Thursday, killing the pilot and
> his passenger, police said.

I saw this aircraft at an airshow in Leesburg, VA a couple of years
ago. There was a 50 meter line of people waiting to get inside and
look around. In hindsight, I should have waited, but I took a couple
of pictures and walked away. Terrible shame to loose a crew and a
unique relic like that.

Patrick,

[Keith Willshaw]

"Jim Atkins" > wrote in message
et...
> Being a true lover of the sound of old airplanes flying, it pains me to
say
> this but isn't it time to stop flying irreplaceable and one-of-a-kind
> planes?

Maybe but the crashed He-111 was neither irreplaceable or one of a kind.

> Every one lost is lost forever. Maybe it's time to face up to the
> reality that aviation is fundamentally dangerous, and there is a risk
> involved in flying the old birds. At some point we have to retire the old
> beauties to a museum because if we don't, a history-making piece of
> craftsmanship will be lost forever.
>

There are lots of He-111's in museums but an aircraft in a museum
isnt an aircraft anymore, its the preserved corpse of one. Only in
the sky can you really appreciate what it was built for.

> I know all of you out there join me in sending thoughts, prayers and
> condolences to the families of the good men killed.

Sure but the LAST thing those good men would want is that war birds
be stopped from flying.

Keith

[Bill Shatzer]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Keith Willshaw wrote:

-snips-

> There are lots of He-111's in museums but an aircraft in a museum
> isnt an aircraft anymore, its the preserved corpse of one. Only in
> the sky can you really appreciate what it was built for.

Bygawd, let's tear down the Wright Flyer from the ceiling of the
Smithsonian and let that baby FLY again! It's jest a "preserved
corpse" while hanging there from the ceiling.

I seem to recall the Smithsonian is sitting on the Enola Gay and
the Winnie Mae as well. Return 'em to the air!

If we lose one or two or more of 'em along the way, well, bygawd, at least
they won't be "preserved corpses"!

Cheers and all,

[N329DF]

>Bygawd, let's tear down the Wright Flyer from the ceiling of the
>Smithsonian and let that baby FLY again! It's jest a "preserved
>corpse" while hanging there from the ceiling.

no it is the ONLY one, the FIRST plane, and as such it is where it deserves to
be.

>I seem to recall the Smithsonian is sitting on the Enola Gay and
>the Winnie Mae as well. Return 'em to the air!
NO again, there ARE historical planes are are where they deserve to be, now if
you want to fly another B-29 in th Enola Gay markings, that is different, it is
not the original, but a replica.

The He-111 that crashed, may have been the only one flying, but it is not the
ONLY He-111 in the world, and to get nit picky, it was not a He-111, but a CASA
1112, a post-war Spanish built, transport powered by RR Merlins.




Matt Gunsch,
A&P,IA,Private Pilot
Riding member of the
Arizona Precision Motorcycle Drill Team
GWRRA,NRA,GOA

[Keith Willshaw]

"Bill Shatzer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Keith Willshaw wrote:
>
> -snips-
>
> > There are lots of He-111's in museums but an aircraft in a museum
> > isnt an aircraft anymore, its the preserved corpse of one. Only in
> > the sky can you really appreciate what it was built for.
>
> Bygawd, let's tear down the Wright Flyer from the ceiling of the
> Smithsonian and let that baby FLY again! It's jest a "preserved
> corpse" while hanging there from the ceiling.
>
> I seem to recall the Smithsonian is sitting on the Enola Gay and
> the Winnie Mae as well. Return 'em to the air!
>

If there was more than one of each I might agree with that,
indeed I seem to recall that there's at least one B-29 flying
with the CAF

> If we lose one or two or more of 'em along the way, well, bygawd, at least
> they won't be "preserved corpses"!
>

In some cases all you can have is the preserved corpse, which is
second best to be sure. The Shuttleworth Collection however
manages to conserve and fly both genuine and replica aircraft
of the WW1 period including a 1909 Bleriot XI , a 1910 Deperdussin
and a Bristol Boxkite replica

These aircraft only fly in perfect conditions but fly they do and
more genuinely evoke the era than any dusty piece in a museum.

Keith

[Marc Reeve]

Keith Willshaw > wrote:
> "Jim Atkins" > wrote in message
> et...
> > Yes, it reduces the number of flying examples. But in a museum, at least
> > you have it to look at and photograph, instead of a smoking heap. These
> > planes are close to 60 years old, and the real things will never come
> > back. There is a time when they are too valuable to risk. I love the old
> > birds too, but we have to make a choice. I'd rather my grandchildren get
> > to see one in the flesh, instead of showing them a picture and telling
> > them what a tragedy the crash was.
> >
> But there are examples in museums.
>
> The aircraft was NOT one of a kind.
>
As someone else pointed out, it wasn't even one of the kind it was
claimed to be, being a Spanish-build CASA 211. As I recall it was of
postwar construction and powered by (semi-ironically) Merlins.

It was nice to have a "He-111" flying around to airshows, and it is sad
that the owner/pilot and passenger were killed in the crash.

But as someone said, it was a privately owned aircraft and the owner was
doing what he loved when the crash occurred.

-Marc

--
Marc Reeve
actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m