France Bans the Term 'E-Mail'

[bsh]

PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and hello
"courriel" — the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using
to refer to electronic mail in official documents.

The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.

The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists
Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier
electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail — a claim some
industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words.

"Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly
used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail'
in English," the commission has ruled.

The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was
published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a
term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission
said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030718/ap_on_fe_st/france_out_with__e_mail__1

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

bsh wrote:
> PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and hello
> "courriel" — the term that linguistically sensitive France is now
> using to refer to electronic mail in official documents.
>
> The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the
> latest step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.


C'est la vie. I feel their pain.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Larry Dighera wrote:
>> The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in
>> all government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the
>> latest step to stem an incursion of English words into the French
>> lexicon.
>
> The action of the French Culture Ministry would seem a bit moot given
> the fact that English is now the official language of the European
> Union.


Many of the actions of the French seem a bit moot.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

[Jarg]

Of course they did, must defend their superior culture after all ;)
Jarg
"bsh" > wrote in message
...
> PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and hello
> "courriel" — the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using
> to refer to electronic mail in official documents.
>
> The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
> step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
>
> The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists
> Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier
> electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail — a claim some
> industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words.
>
> "Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly
> used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail'
> in English," the commission has ruled.
>
> The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was
> published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a
> term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission
> said.
>
>
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030718/ap_on_fe_st/france_out_with__e_mail__1
>

[Gooneybird]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:31:57 +0300, bsh > wrote in
> Message-Id: >:
>
> >The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> >government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
> >step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
>
> The action of the French Culture Ministry would seem a bit moot given
> the fact that English is now the official language of the European
> Union.

I don't know how moot it is, but it sure looks childish and petty to me. I
seriously doubt that very many Frenchmen really care that the five letter
acronym (email) is rooted in the English language rather than the French. It's
shorter than the Gallic substitute for it, and therefore more convenient even
for French users of the Internet.

Next thing we know, some brain-dead idealogue will be insisting that we remove
"a la carte" from all of our English language menus. Hopefully, we won't sink
to that level.

George Z.
>
>

[Gordon]

oh THIS is on topic LOL

[Andrew Chaplin]

bsh wrote:
>
> PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and hello
> "courriel" — the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using
> to refer to electronic mail in official documents.
>
> The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
> step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
>
> The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists
> Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier
> electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail — a claim some
> industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words.
>
> "Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly
> used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail'
> in English," the commission has ruled.
>
> The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was
> published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a
> term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission
> said.
>
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030718/ap_on_fe_st/france_out_with__e_mail__1

I use "courriel" daily at the House of Commons of Canada. It works
much better in French than "e-mail". From the Canadian point of view,
it's a sign that French can actually grow and accept influences
outside France (even if it hurts). "E-mail" is too close to the French
word for enamel.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[Gooneybird]

"Brian Colwell" > wrote in message
. ca...
>
> "Gooneybird" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:31:57 +0300, bsh > wrote in
> > > Message-Id: >:
> > >
> > > >The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> > > >government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
> > > >step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
> > >
> > > The action of the French Culture Ministry would seem a bit moot given
> > > the fact that English is now the official language of the European
> > > Union.
> >
> > I don't know how moot it is, but it sure looks childish and petty to me.
> I
> > seriously doubt that very many Frenchmen really care that the five letter
> > acronym (email) is rooted in the English language rather than the French.
> It's
> > shorter than the Gallic substitute for it, and therefore more convenient
> even
> > for French users of the Internet.
> >
> > Next thing we know, some brain-dead idealogue will be insisting that we
> remove
> > "a la carte" from all of our English language menus. Hopefully, we won't
> sink
> > to that level.
> >
> > George Z.
> > >
> Want to bet on it George...:-))

Not only "no" but an emphatic "hell, no!" (^-^)))

George Z.

[Sunny]

"Andrew Chaplin" > wrote in message
__e_mail__1
>
> I use "courriel" daily at the House of Commons of Canada. It works
> much better in French than "e-mail". From the Canadian point of view,
> it's a sign that French can actually grow and accept influences
> outside France (even if it hurts). "E-mail" is too close to the French
> word for enamel.

That's it ! I am going to scrub "par avion" off all my air mail letters
from now on.
No more enamel either, I will use paint.

[Gooneybird]

"Guy Alcala" > wrote in message
. ..
> Brian Colwell wrote:
>
> > "Gooneybird" > wrote in message
> > ...
>
> >
>
> > > I don't know how moot it is, but it sure looks childish and petty to me.
> > I
> > > seriously doubt that very many Frenchmen really care that the five letter
> > > acronym (email) is rooted in the English language rather than the French.
> > It's
> > > shorter than the Gallic substitute for it, and therefore more convenient
> > even
> > > for French users of the Internet.
> > >
> > > Next thing we know, some brain-dead idealogue will be insisting that we
> > remove
> > > "a la carte" from all of our English language menus. Hopefully, we won't
> > sink
> > > to that level.
> > >
> > > George Z.
> > > >
> > Want to bet on it George...:-))
>
> How do you want your potatoes -- baked, mashed or freedom fried.

Thank you, Guy, for making me look clairvoyant.

I knew I could count on someone, Brian, which is why I wouldn't bet on it. Do I
know my American people, or what?

George Z.

[[email protected]]

"Gooneybird" > wrote:

>
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:31:57 +0300, bsh > wrote in
>> Message-Id: >:
>>
>> >The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
>> >government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
>> >step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
>>
>> The action of the French Culture Ministry would seem a bit moot given
>> the fact that English is now the official language of the European
>> Union.
>
>I don't know how moot it is, but it sure looks childish and petty to me. I
>seriously doubt that very many Frenchmen really care that the five letter
>acronym (email) is rooted in the English language rather than the French. It's
>shorter than the Gallic substitute for it, and therefore more convenient even
>for French users of the Internet.
>
>Next thing we know, some brain-dead idealogue will be insisting that we remove
>"a la carte" from all of our English language menus. Hopefully, we won't sink
>to that level.
>
>George Z.
>>

I'm especially sensitive to this kind of crap, living as I do in
Canada and needing to travel through the foreign country of
Quebec. I've taken of late to electing to travel through the US
so as to avoid Quebec entirely. Can you imagine the effrontery of
them passing a LAW which forbids showing the English Language on
public signs right here in Canada?!?. Disgusting altogether.
--

-Gord.

[David Windhorst]

Larry Dighera wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:31:57 +0300, bsh > wrote in
> Message-Id: >:
>
> >The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> >government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
> >step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
>
> The action of the French Culture Ministry would seem a bit moot given
> the fact that English is now the official language of the European
> Union.

Shouldn't that be, "a bit meut"?

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:15:14 GMT, "Gord Beaman" )
wrote in Message-Id: >:

>I'm especially sensitive to this kind of crap, living as I do in
>Canada and needing to travel through the foreign country of
>Quebec. I've taken of late to electing to travel through the US
>so as to avoid Quebec entirely. Can you imagine the effrontery of
>them passing a LAW which forbids showing the English Language on
>public signs right here in Canada?!?. Disgusting altogether.
>--


What's the alternative, another Northern Irelandesque jihad for Grate
Britain?

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 02:40:25 GMT, David Windhorst
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>
>
>Larry Dighera wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:31:57 +0300, bsh > wrote in
>> Message-Id: >:
>>
>> >The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
>> >government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
>> >step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
>>
>> The action of the French Culture Ministry would seem a bit moot given
>> the fact that English is now the official language of the European
>> Union.
>
>Shouldn't that be, "a bit meut"?
>

But, of course mon ami! Merci.

[Cub Driver]

I was skiing at Chamonix years ago, when I met a French-Canadian in
the parking lot. He was horribly depressed at the state of the French
language in the home country. The parking lot was dubbed PARKING
instead of stationment, but even worse in his opinion was LE WEEKEND.

On the other hand, even longer ago I met a Frenchman from Normandy in
the Paris youth hostel. He'd just driven a hitchhiking American girl
to the hostel, where of course she had dumped him, so he was
comforting himself with a bottle of wine at the commons table. He too
was hideously depressed (perhaps it goes with the language?) at the
state of spoken French in Normandy. The worst thing he could say about
it was that it sounded very similar to French as spoken in Quebec.

(Both these conversations, I might point out, were held in English.
Though the French regard it as a predator language, they are pretty
handy with it.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub

[Gooneybird]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> I was skiing at Chamonix years ago, when I met a French-Canadian in
> the parking lot. He was horribly depressed at the state of the French
> language in the home country. The parking lot was dubbed PARKING
> instead of stationment, but even worse in his opinion was LE WEEKEND.
>
> On the other hand, even longer ago I met a Frenchman from Normandy in
> the Paris youth hostel. He'd just driven a hitchhiking American girl
> to the hostel, where of course she had dumped him, so he was
> comforting himself with a bottle of wine at the commons table. He too
> was hideously depressed (perhaps it goes with the language?) at the
> state of spoken French in Normandy. The worst thing he could say about
> it was that it sounded very similar to French as spoken in Quebec.
>
> (Both these conversations, I might point out, were held in English.
> Though the French regard it as a predator language, they are pretty
> handy with it.)

On reflection, one never hears Frenchmen complaining about French words and
phrases adopted into the English language, does one. A bit of "le standard a
deux", n'est ce pas? (^-^)))

George Z.

[Emmanuel.Gustin]

Gooneybird > wrote:

: On reflection, one never hears Frenchmen complaining about French words and
: phrases adopted into the English language, does one. A bit of "le standard
: a deux", n'est ce pas? (^-^)))

Well, thanks to William the Conqueror, English is a mixture
of French with the original Germanic Old English, anyway.
It is only natural for the French to make further intrusions.
While 'Franglais' is really very, very ugly.

Emmanuel

[Mycroft]

And the French wonder why a lot of the world find them irritating!?

Myc


"bsh" > wrote in message
...
> PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and hello
> "courriel" — the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using
> to refer to electronic mail in official documents.
>
> The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
> step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
>
> The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists
> Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier
> electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail — a claim some
> industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words.
>
> "Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly
> used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail'
> in English," the commission has ruled.
>
> The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was
> published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a
> term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission
> said.
>
>
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030718/ap_on_fe_st/france_out_with__e_mail__1
>

[Pierre-Henri Baras]

"Mycroft" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
> And the French wonder why a lot of the world find them irritating!?
>

No we don't, we don't give a rat's ass.

--
_________________________________________
Pierre-Henri BARAS

Co-webmaster de French Fleet Air Arm
http://www.ffaa.net
Encyclopédie de l'Aviation sur le web
http://www.aviation-fr.info

[Larry Dighera]

On 19 Jul 2003 16:52:22 GMT, "Emmanuel.Gustin"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>Larry Dighera > wrote:
>
>: The action of the French Culture Ministry would seem a bit moot given
>: the fact that English is now the official language of the European
>: Union.
>
>There is no single official language of the EU. When it
>comes to official publications, all EU languages are equal.
>(Just imagine how people would react, with justification,
>if official documents were only available in a language
>many of them do not understand.) For everyday administrative
>work, there are a number of preferred languages (five IIRC)
>of which English is one, but French another.
>
>Emmanuel



Indeed it appears that there are 11 official EU languages:

http://www.ibeurope.com/Issues/LAN.htm
There are currently eleven official languages of the European
Union - Danish, Dutch, English, Finnish, French, German, Greek,
Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and Swedish. Following enlargement it
is likely that a further eight official languages may be added :
Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish, Czech, Slovak, Hungarian
and Slovene.

Official EU documents are made available in all official languages
of the European Union. Internally the Commission works in three
procedural languages, English, French and German, and material
generated inside the Commission for internal use only is drafted
in one or more of these and translated only between those three if
needed. ...




http://www.delchn.cec.eu.int/en/eu_guide/eu_guide.htm#eulanguages
What are the official languages of the European Union?

What are the official languages of the European Union? The very
first Regulation enacted by the Council of what is now the
European Union, was concerned with language. On 15 April 1958. The
Council laid down that the official languages of the Member States
should be both the official languages of the Community and the
working languages of the Community institution.

Every Member State's official language is an official language of
the EU. As several Member States share the same official language
this means there are 11 official languages. They are (in
alphabetical order): Danish, Dutch, English, Finnish, French,
German, Greek, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish.


On the other hand:


http://www.absolutelyjokes.com/ethnics-and-countries/language/european-union-decision-on-official-language.html
European Union Decision On Official Language

The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby
English will be the official language of the EU rather than German
which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her
Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room
for improvement and has accepted a 5 year phase-in plan that would
be known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this
will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be
dropped in favour of the"k". This should klear up konfusion and
keyboards kan have 1 less letter. There will be growing publik
enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be
replaced with "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20%
shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be
ekspekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are
possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters,
which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil
agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in the language is
disgraseful, and they should go away.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as
replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz year, ze
unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar
changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil
be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to
understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru! And zen ve vil
tak over ze vorld!

[Pierre-Henri Baras]

It's funny, we have the same joke, with french transforming into german.
I wonder if it exists in other languages??
_________________________________________
Pierre-Henri BARAS

Co-webmaster de French Fleet Air Arm
http://www.ffaa.net
Encyclopédie de l'Aviation sur le web
http://www.aviation-fr.info



"Larry Dighera" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
> > On the other hand:
>
>
>
http://www.absolutelyjokes.com/ethnics-and-countries/language/european-union
-decision-on-official-language.html
> European Union Decision On Official Language
>
> The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby
> English will be the official language of the EU rather than German
> which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her
> Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room
> for improvement and has accepted a 5 year phase-in plan that would
> be known as "Euro-English".
>
> In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this
> will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be
> dropped in favour of the"k". This should klear up konfusion and
> keyboards kan have 1 less letter. There will be growing publik
> enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be
> replaced with "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20%
> shorter.
>
> In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be
> ekspekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are
> possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters,
> which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil
> agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in the language is
> disgraseful, and they should go away.
>
> By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as
> replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz year, ze
> unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar
> changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.
>
> After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil
> be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to
> understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru! And zen ve vil
> tak over ze vorld!
>
>
>

[Lawrence Dillard]

IIRC, the very first time this linguistic concern was initially addressed,
i.e., that France should work to retard the "...incursion of English words
into the French lexicon", mention was made that such was having a
deleterious impact on "Le (sp?) standing" of the French language. Gosh, has
there ever been an English word that is more incursive on French language
and more..."English"...than "standing"....? I suppose the effort keeps a few
persons more or less gainfully employed.

"bsh" > wrote in message
...
> PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and hello
> "courriel" — the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using
> to refer to electronic mail in official documents.
>
> The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
> step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
>
> The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists
> Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier
> electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail — a claim some
> industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words.
>
> "Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly
> used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail'
> in English," the commission has ruled.
>
> The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was
> published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a
> term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission
> said.
>
>
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030718/ap_on_fe_st/france_out_with__e_mail__1
>

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: France Bans the Term 'E-Mail'
>From: Mary Shafer
>Date: 7/19/03 9:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:23:58 -0400, "Gooneybird"
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know how moot it is, but it sure looks childish and petty to me. I
>> seriously doubt that very many Frenchmen really care that the five letter
>> acronym (email) is rooted in the English language rather than the French.
>It's
>> shorter than the Gallic substitute for it, and therefore more convenient
>even
>> for French users of the Internet.
>
>This isn't exactly new. The language police were trying to eliminate
>"le weekend" a couple of decades ago. They're trying to keep French
>French.
>


Also "PULLOVER" for sweater.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Frank Neurath]

Andrew Chaplin wrote:

[snip]

> I use "courriel" daily at the House of Commons of Canada. It works
> much better in French than "e-mail". From the Canadian point of view,
> it's a sign that French can actually grow and accept influences
> outside France (even if it hurts). "E-mail" is too close to the French
> word for enamel.
> --
> Andrew Chaplin
> SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
> (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
^^^^^^

So, so you are using courriel daily...

;-)

Frank

[The CO]

"Pierre-Henri Baras" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mycroft" > a écrit dans le message de news:
> ...
> > And the French wonder why a lot of the world find them irritating!?
> >
>
> No we don't, we don't give a rat's ass.

Cue old joke about non natives speakers attempting French language::
"The French don't really care what you say, but you *must* pronounce it
correctly."

:^)

The CO

[The Enlightenment]

"Mycroft" > wrote in message >...
> And the French wonder why a lot of the world find them irritating!?
>
> Myc
>

Start taking your Spanish lessons yankee gringo. La Razza is inside the gates.


>
> "bsh" > wrote in message
> ...
> > PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and hello
> > "courriel" ? the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using
> > to refer to electronic mail in official documents.
> >
> > The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> > government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
> > step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
> >
> > The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists
> > Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier
> > electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail ? a claim some
> > industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words.
> >
> > "Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly
> > used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail'
> > in English," the commission has ruled.
> >
> > The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was
> > published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a
> > term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission
> > said.
> >
> >
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030718/ap_on_fe_st/france_out_with__e_mail__1
> >

[Pierre-Henri Baras]

"The CO" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
>
> "Pierre-Henri Baras" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Mycroft" > a écrit dans le message de news:
> > ...
> > > And the French wonder why a lot of the world find them irritating!?
> > >
> >
> > No we don't, we don't give a rat's ass.
>
> Cue old joke about non natives speakers attempting French language::
> "The French don't really care what you say, but you *must* pronounce it
> correctly."

LOL. We *do* appreciate people who make an small effort to speak french,
even if it turns out real bad. 80% of the people here understand minimal
english, but you'll probably be treated better if you give a shot at it in
french.
Call it arrogance if you want, I lack the objectivity to judge it....

--
_________________________________________
Pierre-Henri BARAS

Co-webmaster de French Fleet Air Arm
http://www.ffaa.net
Encyclopédie de l'Aviation sur le web
http://www.aviation-fr.info

[Gooneybird]

Pardon, mais il y a des americains qui essayent parler en francais. Je voudrais
savoir ou vous avez appris la langue anglais. C'est la langue (comment se dit
le mot en francais?) "colloquial", et c'est tres bon.

George Z.


"Pierre-Henri Baras" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "The CO" > a écrit dans le message de news:
> ...
> >
> > "Pierre-Henri Baras" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Mycroft" > a écrit dans le message de news:
> > > ...
> > > > And the French wonder why a lot of the world find them irritating!?
> > > >
> > >
> > > No we don't, we don't give a rat's ass.
> >
> > Cue old joke about non natives speakers attempting French language::
> > "The French don't really care what you say, but you *must* pronounce it
> > correctly."
>
> LOL. We *do* appreciate people who make an small effort to speak french,
> even if it turns out real bad. 80% of the people here understand minimal
> english, but you'll probably be treated better if you give a shot at it in
> french.
> Call it arrogance if you want, I lack the objectivity to judge it....
>
> --
> _________________________________________
> Pierre-Henri BARAS
>
> Co-webmaster de French Fleet Air Arm
> http://www.ffaa.net
> Encyclopédie de l'Aviation sur le web
> http://www.aviation-fr.info
>
>

[ArVa]

"Gooneybird" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> Pardon, mais il y a des americains qui essayent parler en francais. Je
voudrais
> savoir ou vous avez appris la langue anglais. C'est la langue (comment se
dit
> le mot en francais?) "colloquial", et c'est tres bon.
>
> George Z.
>

Colloquial could be translated by "familier" or "couramment parlé".
Your French is pretty good, George. If I may, it just lacks a "de" between
"essayent" and "parler". Also, "anglais" should be put on its feminine form
(anglaise) as "langue" is a feminine word... I'd give you an A minus :-)

Cordialement,
ArVa

[jallan]

See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unicode/messages/19948?expand=1 and
following for a debunking of this story.

Again American news media messes up.

And American news media wonder why they are not trusted.

And the gullible anti-French pro-Bush contingent spreads the silly
account widely.

Jim Allan


================================================== ==========

(The Enlightenment) wrote in message >...
> "Mycroft" > wrote in message >...
> > And the French wonder why a lot of the world find them irritating!?
> >
> > Myc
> >
>
> Start taking your Spanish lessons yankee gringo. La Razza is inside the gates.
>
>
> >
> > "bsh" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and hello
> > > "courriel" ? the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using
> > > to refer to electronic mail in official documents.
> > >
> > > The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> > > government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
> > > step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
> > >
> > > The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists
> > > Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier
> > > electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail ? a claim some
> > > industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words.
> > >
> > > "Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly
> > > used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail'
> > > in English," the commission has ruled.
> > >
> > > The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was
> > > published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a
> > > term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission
> > > said.
> > >
> > >
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030718/ap_on_fe_st/france_out_with__e_mail__1
> > >

[Gordon]

>
>LOL. We *do* appreciate people who make an small effort to speak french,
>even if it turns out real bad. 80% of the people here understand minimal
>english, but you'll probably be treated better if you give a shot at it in
>french.
>Call it arrogance if you want, I lack the objectivity to judge it....

Sounds like you are right to me. Its the same (pretty much) everywhere - folks
who don't even attempt so much as a local greeting, no matter how mangled, are
usually seen to be aloof or some other negative trait. Better to apologize for
a small embarrassment on your own part than to have the people you are visiting
start with a negative impression of you.

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

[Pierre-Henri Baras]

"Gooneybird" > a écrit dans le message de
news: ...
> Pardon, mais il y a des americains qui essayent parler en francais.

Bien sûr George, et ça fait très plaisir.

Je voudrais
> savoir ou vous avez appris la langue anglais.

J'ai appris l'anglais en allant à l'école au Canada (Toronto) et aux USA, à
Los Angeles quand j'étais jeune. J'ai habité pendant 15 ans dans des pays
anglophones. Mon anglais familier (colloquial) est bon, mais bon anglais
grammatical est assez mauvais, j'oublie parfois les verbes irréguliers!

A bientôt!
Pierre-Henri

[The CO]

"Pierre-Henri Baras" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "The CO" > a écrit dans le message de news:
> ...
> >
> > "Pierre-Henri Baras" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Mycroft" > a écrit dans le message de news:
> > > ...
> > > > And the French wonder why a lot of the world find them
irritating!?
> > > >
> > >
> > > No we don't, we don't give a rat's ass.
> >
> > Cue old joke about non natives speakers attempting French language::
> > "The French don't really care what you say, but you *must* pronounce
it
> > correctly."
>
> LOL. We *do* appreciate people who make an small effort to speak
french,
> even if it turns out real bad. 80% of the people here understand
minimal
> english, but you'll probably be treated better if you give a shot at
it in
> french.

Fair enough, be a little extra patient with visiting Aussies, they don't
teach French
in schools around here these days, except perhaps some of the private
ones.

> Call it arrogance if you want, I lack the objectivity to judge it....

We all have our little traits.

Se la vie.

The CO

[Richard Brooks]

"Emmanuel.Gustin" > wrote in message
...
> Gooneybird > wrote:
>
> : On reflection, one never hears Frenchmen complaining about French words
and
> : phrases adopted into the English language, does one. A bit of "le
standard
> : a deux", n'est ce pas? (^-^)))
>
> Well, thanks to William the Conqueror, English is a mixture
> of French with the original Germanic Old English, anyway.
> It is only natural for the French to make further intrusions.
> While 'Franglais' is really very, very ugly.
>
> Emmanuel

You mean like "murky buckets" ?

Besides French is a way to clear the sinus without spitting on the pavement
so is very healthy and for exercise we use the longbowman's wave.


Richard.

[Richard Brooks]

"Pierre-Henri Baras" > wrote in message
...
>

> It's funny, we have the same joke, with french transforming into german.
> I wonder if it exists in other languages??

> > The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby
> > English will be the official language of the EU rather than German
> > which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her
> > Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room
> > for improvement and has accepted a 5 year phase-in plan that would
> > be known as "Euro-English".

[snipped]

> > After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil
> > be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to
> > understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru! And zen ve vil
> > tak over ze vorld!
> >

I got mine from an old Russian ally!


Richard.

[Richard Brooks]

"Mycroft" > wrote in message
...
> And the French wonder why a lot of the world find them irritating!?
>
> Myc
>
>
> "bsh" > wrote in message
> ...
> > PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail", the French government says, and hello
> > "courriel" - the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using
> > to refer to electronic mail in official documents.
> >
> > The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all
> > government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest
> > step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.

That's alright! It'll stay local anyway.

What ****es me off are the Micra car adverts we get in the UK at the moment.
The arty ones behind the adverts are trying to get words based around how
they feel about the cars, accepted by mangling other words together .
Spafe ->spacious/safe.

Piff, is all I can say in reply.

Richard.

[Pierre-Henri Baras]

"Richard Brooks" > a écrit dans le
message de news: ...
>
>
> I got mine from an old Russian ally!
>
>
>

LOL. Hey, I wonder if there's one for French/English or English/French??
Pierre

[scrumpy]

> I'm not sure I blame them. Look what happened to French when the
> Normans dragged it over to England in 1066. Once the French-speaking
> GIs started chatting up the Saxon barmaids, the language went to Hell
> in a handbasket.
>
The Noirmans were not french, they were francified vikings who adopted
catholiscism and spoke what linguists refer to as Anglo-Norman. Old
French didn't even exist then, what was spoken is now fefered as
Romance, old French did not occur till the first crusaders returned
and introduced some arabic and persian words.
One of the reasons why the Norman nobles abandoned Anglo-Norman by
the 15th century (and yes like the Quebecois, introduced laws to try
and preserve the language). Is that the parisian nobles mocked their
speech, that is, they were regarded as yokels by the parisians and
they hated it (thereby accelerating the demise of Anglo-Norman in
England-Edward I was the first to use English as the official
language).

[scrumpy]

> Well, thanks to William the Conqueror, English is a mixture
> of French with the original Germanic Old English.

Actually that is incorrect, the Normans were francified vikings and
what they spoke (dispite superficial resenblances) was not french.
They spoke a language linguists refer to asw "Anglo-Norman".