Nellis on the blocks?

[ArtKramr]

Not likely. Just came from Nellis and spoke to a Colonel. He said they are
pouring tens of millions into expansions, additions and improvements in almost
every area. I think Nellis will be around for a while.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Larry]

>Just came from Nellis and spoke to a Colonel.
Colonels are often "out of the loop" when it comes to high-level planning
relating to base closures.

>He said they are
>pouring tens of millions into expansions, additions and improvements in
almost
>every area.
This may be true, but it took these projects many years to get planned,
funded, and contracted. They are definitely NOT an accurate forecast of what
the future may hold.

If the base has something that CANNOT be moved, it MAY stay open, as this is
how the "bean counters" look at base closures. Nothing is sacred.

Ok. You can flame me now.


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)



"S. Sampson" > wrote in message
...
> "ArtKramr" > wrote
> >
> > Not likely. Just came from Nellis and spoke to a Colonel. He said they
are
> > pouring tens of millions into expansions, additions and improvements in
almost
> > every area. I think Nellis will be around for a while.
>
> Actually one of the big things that happens when a base closes, is the
amount
> of construction skyrockets. They have to dump all the contracts.
>
> Nellis will have no mission when they shut down the range. I don't care
how
> many tax dollars you blow, it will serve no purpose. The range has so
many
> restrictions now, that the training is academic at best. There's no
real-world
> value, except maybe to an MQT student. Most Captains and Majors pretty
> much just shake their head at how far gone the training value is.
>
>

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Nellis on the blocks?
>From: "S. Sampson"
>Date: 7/19/03 10:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote
>>
>> Not likely. Just came from Nellis and spoke to a Colonel. He said they are
>> pouring tens of millions into expansions, additions and improvements in
>almost
>> every area. I think Nellis will be around for a while.
>
>Actually one of the big things that happens when a base closes, is the amount
>of construction skyrockets. They have to dump all the contracts.
>
>Nellis will have no mission when they shut down the range.

The range is still open.
..
Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Dave Holford]

ArtKramr wrote:
>

> >Just came from Nellis and spoke to a Colonel.
> >Colonels are often "out of the loop" when it comes to high-level planning
>
> And what posiition do you hold " in the loop"
>
> Arthur Kramer


Gee I must have missed something.
I can't see anything in his posting that even insinuates that he is "in
the loop".

Dave

[Larry]

> And what position do you hold " in the loop"
I'm not "in the loop" there Art, just like you.

When I worked as Public Works Liaison, I coordinated much of the fact
gathering for BRAC, so I'm familiar with their selection criteria.

And I've been around Public Works Facilities and Planning Departments long
enough to know how the contractual process works. Current construction is a
look into the past and is no prediction of the future.

If you doubt my words, look at what happened at NAS Barbers Point. They
dumped millions (of YOUR tax dollars and mine) into a new Exchange, new
housing, new Commissary, (and many other projects I cannot recall) and then
closed the base. Today it sits less than 1/4 utilized.

I'm sure you don't want to see Nellis closed. I'm not questioning what you
heard. Just don't get all wrapped up in the Colonel's little propaganda. He
is not making the decision whether or not to close the base.

I'm only pointing out how BRAC works.


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)


"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Nellis on the blocks?
> >From: "Larry"
> >Date: 7/19/03 11:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
>
> >Just came from Nellis and spoke to a Colonel.
> >Colonels are often "out of the loop" when it comes to high-level planning
>
> And what posiition do you hold " in the loop"
>
> Arthur Kramer
> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>

[S. Sampson]

"ArtKramr" > wrote
> >
> >Nellis will have no mission when they shut down the range.
>
> The range is still open.

Yes, "still" is probably a good word here.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Nellis on the blocks?
>From: "S. Sampson"
>Date: 7/19/03 1:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote
>> >
>> >Nellis will have no mission when they shut down the range.
>>
>> The range is still open.
>
>Yes, "still" is probably a good word here.
>
>
>

Never flinch before you're hit.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[S. Sampson]

"ArtKramr" > wrote
>
> Never flinch before you're hit.

Flinching is a sign you are still alive.

[Ragnar]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> Not likely. Just came from Nellis and spoke to a Colonel. He said they are
> pouring tens of millions into expansions, additions and improvements in
almost
> every area. I think Nellis will be around for a while.
>

Besides which, there is NO BRAC list yet. There won't be until the
committee gets its act together and makes one.

[av8r]

Hi Larry

When I was at Barbers Point back in February 2000, the only active unit
there was the Coast Guard (Coast Guard Air Station Barbers Point). The
married quarters were all occupied and the Navy Exchange was still open.
Sad to see the place in such a state though when you consider what it
used be like in the 60's and 70's.

Cheers...Chris

[Phantom Ryder]

Every base is on the chopping block when BRAC convenes. I worked at Nellis
with the Range Group during the BRAC rounds in the 1990s. We had to justify
our mission and training. I hate to think of the hours involved in
answering the BRAC questions. Necessary, but it did take about two months
of work in addition to the mission of the unit. No base is safe until the
BRAC report is finished and accepted by DoD.

Phantom Ryder
"Cave Putorium"

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> Not likely. Just came from Nellis and spoke to a Colonel. He said they are
> pouring tens of millions into expansions, additions and improvements in
almost
> every area. I think Nellis will be around for a while.
>
> Arthur Kramer
> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>
>

[Mary Shafer]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 02:47:32 GMT, "Phantom Ryder"
> wrote:

> Every base is on the chopping block when BRAC convenes. I worked at Nellis
> with the Range Group during the BRAC rounds in the 1990s. We had to justify
> our mission and training. I hate to think of the hours involved in
> answering the BRAC questions. Necessary, but it did take about two months
> of work in addition to the mission of the unit. No base is safe until the
> BRAC report is finished and accepted by DoD.

Nah. Edwards is safe. So's China Lake. No one else has dry
lakebeds. Eglin's probably safe, too, because of the ranges.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all."
Anonymous US fighter pilot

[John Carrier]

> >Just came from Nellis and spoke to a Colonel.
> >Colonels are often "out of the loop" when it comes to high-level planning
>
> And what posiition do you hold " in the loop"

His point is well taken. The base CO IS out of this loop. The BRAC
decisions in the past were made at the service secretariat level. In the
USN, even CNO wasn't truly "in the loop."

Of course, BRAC 2005 is going to be SecDef's show. Given Rummy's management
style, do you think the base CO is going to be consulted?

R / John

[John Carrier]

> Nah. Edwards is safe. So's China Lake. No one else has dry
> lakebeds. Eglin's probably safe, too, because of the ranges.

I would say that EITHER Edwards or China Lake is safe (given the purple suit
world we now live in). I'll go with your assessment of Eglin too.

R / John

[John Smith]

"S. Sampson" > wrote in message
...
> "ArtKramr" > wrote
> >
>
> Nellis will have no mission when they shut down the range. I don't care
how
> many tax dollars you blow, it will serve no purpose. The range has so
many
> restrictions now, that the training is academic at best. There's no
real-world
> value, except maybe to an MQT student. Most Captains and Majors pretty
> much just shake their head at how far gone the training value is.
>
>
>

Has something changed in the past few months ? I was out there back in
December 2002 and it was still a pretty good range/moa to fly in.

[BUFDRVR]

>Has something changed in the past few months ? I was out there back in
>December 2002 and it was still a pretty good range/moa to fly in.

Not in months, but in years. Since 1995, the "No-Fly" areas in the range have
tripled (if not more). Fortunately, they're not a factor if your above 5000'
AGL, which is where most of us are now-a-days.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"