Tornado vs Mirage 2000 in offensive counter-air role

[LoveBug]

Which fighter is better in offensive counter-air role?

As I understand it, both Tornado F2/F3 and Mirage 2000C/5F were
designed more or less as bomber interceptors, not as a dedicated air
superiority fighter like F-15A/C.

After the end of Cold War, they had to adapt to new roles in entirely
different envirionments. Which of the two managed to adapt more
successfully? I know none of them scored a single kill over Iraq and
former Yugoslavia, but at least they contributed to the effort to
enforce the no-fly-zones.

[David Bromage]

LoveBug wrote:
> As I understand it, both Tornado F2/F3 and Mirage 2000C/5F were
> designed more or less as bomber interceptors, not as a dedicated air
> superiority fighter like F-15A/C.
>
> After the end of Cold War, they had to adapt to new roles in entirely
> different envirionments. Which of the two managed to adapt more
> successfully? I know none of them scored a single kill over Iraq and
> former Yugoslavia, but at least they contributed to the effort to
> enforce the no-fly-zones.

It may not be an entirely fair question because they've yet to have the
chance to prove themselves in combat. It's been a while since the RAF
and Armée de l'air faced an enemy that was prepared to come out and
fight. In the case of Britain I think it was Argentina. When was the
last French air-air victory?

Cheers
David

[Sergio]

"David Bromage" > a écrit dans le
message de .. .

> When was the last French air-air victory?

Gulp... Second World War ?

[David Bromage]

Sergio wrote:
> "David Bromage" > a écrit dans le
> message de .. .
>
>>When was the last French air-air victory?
>
> Gulp... Second World War ?

I think there were a couple in Aden, and possibly in the first Indochina
war.

Cheers
David

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
"Sergio" > writes:
> "David Bromage" > a écrit dans le
> message de .. .
>
>> When was the last French air-air victory?
>
> Gulp... Second World War ?

Suez, '56, perhaps?

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[LoveBug]

Well, haven't RAF Tornado F3s ever done any DACT with Armee de l'air
Mirage 2000s or had any close encounter with Iraqi or Serb MiGs?

I vaguely remember Osprey's 'Tornado Pilot' had a very brief story on
the DACT between Tornado F3 and Mirage 2000C... Simulated combat
results between the two might help find which of the two is better in
OCA...



David Bromage > wrote in message >...
> LoveBug wrote:
> > As I understand it, both Tornado F2/F3 and Mirage 2000C/5F were
> > designed more or less as bomber interceptors, not as a dedicated air
> > superiority fighter like F-15A/C.
> >
> > After the end of Cold War, they had to adapt to new roles in entirely
> > different envirionments. Which of the two managed to adapt more
> > successfully? I know none of them scored a single kill over Iraq and
> > former Yugoslavia, but at least they contributed to the effort to
> > enforce the no-fly-zones.
>
> It may not be an entirely fair question because they've yet to have the
> chance to prove themselves in combat. It's been a while since the RAF
> and Armée de l'air faced an enemy that was prepared to come out and
> fight. In the case of Britain I think it was Argentina. When was the
> last French air-air victory?
>
> Cheers
> David

[LoveBug]

Er, the last British air-to-air victory was by the Royal Navy Sea
Harrier FRS1 in 1982, AFAIK. The RAF's last victory may date back as
far as the Korean War?



David Bromage > wrote in message >...
> LoveBug wrote:
> > As I understand it, both Tornado F2/F3 and Mirage 2000C/5F were
> > designed more or less as bomber interceptors, not as a dedicated air
> > superiority fighter like F-15A/C.
> >
> > After the end of Cold War, they had to adapt to new roles in entirely
> > different envirionments. Which of the two managed to adapt more
> > successfully? I know none of them scored a single kill over Iraq and
> > former Yugoslavia, but at least they contributed to the effort to
> > enforce the no-fly-zones.
>
> It may not be an entirely fair question because they've yet to have the
> chance to prove themselves in combat. It's been a while since the RAF
> and Armée de l'air faced an enemy that was prepared to come out and
> fight. In the case of Britain I think it was Argentina. When was the
> last French air-air victory?
>
> Cheers
> David

[David Bromage]

Peter Stickney wrote:
> In article >,
> "Sergio" > writes:
>>"David Bromage" > a écrit dans le
>>message de .. .
>>>When was the last French air-air victory?
>>>
>>Gulp... Second World War ?
>
> Suez, '56, perhaps?

IIRC, the French were mainly attacking Egyptian tanks in that one.

Cheers
David

[David Bromage]

LoveBug wrote:
> Er, the last British air-to-air victory was by the Royal Navy Sea
> Harrier FRS1 in 1982, AFAIK. The RAF's last victory may date back as
> far as the Korean War?

An RAF Venom got a Egyptian Mig-15 in 1956.

Cheers
David

[EndX]

A certain LoveBug did scribble:
> Which fighter is better in offensive counter-air role?
>

That would depend on what part of OCA you are talking about? The GR4 is a
very capable platform against airfields/SEAD and precision attack against
C2W facilities. I dont think it would be much cop in the fighter
sweep/escort roles though.


> As I understand it, both Tornado F2/F3 and Mirage 2000C/5F were
> designed more or less as bomber interceptors, not as a dedicated air
> superiority fighter like F-15A/C.

Correct.

>
> After the end of Cold War, they had to adapt to new roles in entirely
> different envirionments. Which of the two managed to adapt more
> successfully? I know none of them scored a single kill over Iraq and
> former Yugoslavia, but at least they contributed to the effort to
> enforce the no-fly-zones.

The RAF has been limited to CAP with the F3 since its introduction. The
Typhoon will give the RAF the capability to perform fighter escort and
fighter sweep roles as well. Might even rack up a few kills with it. It
will make a change from letting the USAF have all the fun!

rgds

BMFull


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If Saddam Hussein married Little Miss Muffet,
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