Birdman Flies across Channel

[robert arndt]

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,00.html

Rob

[Dav1936531]

>From: (robert arndt)
>
>
>http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,0
0.html
>Rob

I saw video of this guy flying his rig on ABC news. Jumped from somewhere
around 30K using oxygen and a specially heated suit.

Since we were discussing glide ratios earlier, I fail to believe he would have
made it that far if his wing set-up was made of lead. He'd have been feeding
the sharks at the bottom of the channel faster then a speeding bullet. :)

Oh, and he almost "kilt" his own crazy self at the end of the flight when some
of his parachute cords got all tangled up, but it looked like a pretty cool
ride.
Dave

[[email protected]]

> (Dav1936531) wrote:

>Since we were discussing glide ratios earlier, I fail to believe he would have
>made it that far if his wing set-up was made of lead. He'd have been feeding
>the sharks at the bottom of the channel faster then a speeding bullet. :)

Imagine what the polar curve on this glider looks like!

-Mike Marron

[David McArthur]

(Dav1936531) wrote in message >...
> >From: (robert arndt)
> >
> >
> >http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,0
> 0.html
> >Rob
>
> I saw video of this guy flying his rig on ABC news. Jumped from somewhere
> around 30K using oxygen and a specially heated suit.
>
> Since we were discussing glide ratios earlier, I fail to believe he would have
> made it that far if his wing set-up was made of lead. He'd have been feeding
> the sharks at the bottom of the channel faster then a speeding bullet. :)
>
> Oh, and he almost "kilt" his own crazy self at the end of the flight when some
> of his parachute cords got all tangled up, but it looked like a pretty cool
> ride.


I wonder if there's a military application for this Eg. Special Ops
teams being dropped up to 30 miles from their tgt???

David

[Harry Andreas]

In article >,
(David McArthur) wrote:

> (Dav1936531) wrote in message
>...
> > >From: (robert arndt)
> > >
> > >
> > >http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,0
> > 0.html
> > >Rob
> >
> > I saw video of this guy flying his rig on ABC news. Jumped from somewhere
> > around 30K using oxygen and a specially heated suit.
> >
> > Since we were discussing glide ratios earlier, I fail to believe he
would have
> > made it that far if his wing set-up was made of lead. He'd have been feeding
> > the sharks at the bottom of the channel faster then a speeding bullet. :)
> >
> > Oh, and he almost "kilt" his own crazy self at the end of the flight
when some
> > of his parachute cords got all tangled up, but it looked like a pretty cool
> > ride.
>
>
> I wonder if there's a military application for this Eg. Special Ops
> teams being dropped up to 30 miles from their tgt???

Instead of HALO, it's HAGLO?

YHIHF

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

[Peter Twydell]

In article >, Dav1936531
> writes
>>From: (robert arndt)
>
>>
>>http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,0
>0.html
>>Rob
>
>I saw video of this guy flying his rig on ABC news. Jumped from somewhere
>around 30K using oxygen and a specially heated suit.
>
I didn't know a Skyvan could get that high. How long would it take?

>Since we were discussing glide ratios earlier, I fail to believe he would have
>made it that far if his wing set-up was made of lead. He'd have been feeding
>the sharks at the bottom of the channel faster then a speeding bullet. :)
>
Only if he were plankton; AFAIK the only sharks there are the Basking
kind.

>Oh, and he almost "kilt" his own crazy self at the end of the flight when some
>of his parachute cords got all tangled up, but it looked like a pretty cool
>ride.
>Dave

--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"David McArthur" > wrote in message
om...
> (Dav1936531) wrote in message
>...
> > >From: (robert arndt)
> > >
> > >
> >
>http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,0
> > 0.html
> > >Rob
> >
> > I saw video of this guy flying his rig on ABC news. Jumped from
somewhere
> > around 30K using oxygen and a specially heated suit.
> >
> > Since we were discussing glide ratios earlier, I fail to believe he
would have
> > made it that far if his wing set-up was made of lead. He'd have been
feeding
> > the sharks at the bottom of the channel faster then a speeding bullet.
:)
> >
> > Oh, and he almost "kilt" his own crazy self at the end of the flight
when some
> > of his parachute cords got all tangled up, but it looked like a pretty
cool
> > ride.
>
>
> I wonder if there's a military application for this Eg. Special Ops
> teams being dropped up to 30 miles from their tgt???

Absolutely.

I remember reading an article a few months ago about exactly this kind of
thing being developed for special forces teams. Except the military units
were said to incorporate low-observable technologies into the design of the
wings.

If I remember where I read it, I will post it.

[Gordon]

>
>I wonder if there's a military application for this Eg. Special Ops
>teams being dropped up to 30 miles from their tgt???

no comment, for the last decade. :)

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Harry Andreas wrote:
>> I wonder if there's a military application for this Eg. Special Ops
>> teams being dropped up to 30 miles from their tgt???
>
> Instead of HALO, it's HAGLO?


It sure looked like one hell of a ride. What's he going to do for an encore?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

[Tuollaf43]

(robert arndt) wrote in message >...
> http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,00.html
>
> Rob

Why does everyone have to use the English channel as a bench mark? Why
not the gulf of tonkin (or whatever).

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
(Tuollaf43) wrote:

> Why does everyone have to use the English channel as a bench mark? Why
> not the gulf of tonkin (or whatever).

Because it's been a bit longer since someone got shot down over the
English Channel for trying to fly across?

--


Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Gordon]

>> Why does everyone have to use the English channel as a bench mark? Why
>> not the gulf of tonkin (or whatever).

Because its always been that way, since the dawn of flight. The channel was
the ultimate expression of "just out of reach", with Calais and Dover just far
apart that it seemed improbable that any human built contraption could ever
soar across that gulf. Bleriot was the first to prove that the distance could
be spanned by an aviator. From that time on, the Channel has served as the
beacon for adventurous aviators who wished to demonstrate a connection to
Bleriot, standing on the shore and saying, "I can do this, where others could
not.", much the same as Everest has stood blocking the view of generations of
mountain climbers.

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

[Mark and Kim Smith]

Is it really flight? Or is it, like Buzz Lightyear would say, a controlled fall?

http://www.bunchobikes.com

robert arndt wrote:

> http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,00.html
>
> Rob

[[email protected]]

Felix's website here:

http://www.felixbaumgartner.com/

Good stuff!

-Mike Marron

[Gordon]

nonononooo, Buzz Lightyear says its "falling with style". Don't any of you
have little kids?! :)

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

[Peter Twydell]

In article >, Tuollaf43
> writes
(robert arndt) wrote in message news:<9b35beb1.0307312212.2f94
>...
>> http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,00.htm
>l
>>
>> Rob
>
>Why does everyone have to use the English channel as a bench mark? Why
>not the gulf of tonkin (or whatever).

Because it's the ultimate test of foreignness: English v. French.

It's also a big psychological barrier. The Romans/Angles, Saxons,
Jutes/Normans managed to invade or just get across it and the North Sea,
but no-one's crossed it successfully with evil intent since 1066.
(Except the Aussies coming for the Ashes, of course.)
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

[Gordon]

Not one of those Channel sharks listed would last five minutes in the Indian
Ocean.
They'd be useful as bait, however. :)

[engage thread drift, set to maximum]

Sharks, eh. I hate sharks. Variety of reasons, none worth typing.

I close my eyes and picture a shadow in the distance as Charlie Hood and I swam
in the harbor of Diego Garcia. SAR duty plus several seasons on Dodge with
little to do beside swim gave "Rabbit" and I the idea to swim out to the USS
Gompers when it moored far out in the bay. Hint: Diego Garcia, 15 women,
3,200 men; USS Gompers, lots of women, who cares how many men, IT HAD LOTS OF
WOMEN. It looked like at least a half-mile swim, but we had many swims beyond
that distance without any problems. Out there, we could encounter and get
towed by large sea turtles or see any of thousands of reef fish, including 400
pound Jewfish and other giants in the emerald waters, above miles of coral
diversity. Sharks? We probably did see a few, but until this stupid ass
stunt, nothing memorable.

Rabbit and I made it to the Gompers without effort and quickly shouted up a
conversation with the predominately female members of the crew gathered above
us on deck. We talked with them for a few minutes and Rabbit asked if he could
come aboard - with a lot of smirks and smiles, the Gompers' gals told us the
boarding ladder was on the other side of the ship. That was either a 250 yard
swim around the waterline, or a brief free dive under the hull of the
deep-drafted repair ship. Being young, dumb, and, well, you know, Rabbit and
I immediately went under, as the young uniformed lasses above us departed to
see if we made it to the other side of their boat.

Hector was the bogieman on Diego Garcia, used to scare children into their
beds. Newcomers to the base signed in at a duty office - above the desk was an
8x10 in a simple Navy-issue frame, depicting a view over the side of a warship,
of its motor whaleboat alongside it in Diego Garcia's harbor. Clearly visible
beside the whaleboat is a hammerhead ever inch as long as the 20' boat.

At about the keel line of the Gompers, the pressure of our free dive was giving
me some good sparks in the corners of my eyes. Rabbit was off to my right and
ahead of me, which certainly didn't feel right - I should have been a mile
ahead of that little *******. Below us, the shadows of coralheads rose up,
safely deep beneath the massive ship blocking our passage.

I ran into Rabbit. Swimming up, expecting air shortly, bam - Rabbit, in my
way, and not swimming, but pointing.

It was just beyond "rational" view. In the area of disbelief at the edge of
vision, Rabbit was pointing at something I just didn't want to comprehend. It
was moving - a fish, its just a big fish. My lungs started screaming, but my
heart died in my chest. Its a big... hammerheaded... thing. Grotesquely large
- the lagoon was home to many in the 10-14 range and this ... thing.. was built
to an entirely different scale. I think time slowed down to a crawl for the few
seconds it took for that... thing.. to pass out of view, around the bow of the
ship. I watched it go until the bulk of the ship blocked us, then swam with
all my might to get out of that ocean and as far away from that... thing... as
I could possibly get.

..5 seconds after I broke out of the water, like a trout going up a river, I was
sprinting to the top of the boarding ladder, in front of a very surprised OOD,
and Rabbit, the little *******, who had somehow beaten me again. We stood with
water sheeting off of us, momentarily at a loss for words. "Bb-b-bb-ig....
ssh--shh--... I mean, request permission to come aboard, sir?" I don't know
what the hell we'd have done if he said no. My heart took about an hour to get
settled down and by then, liberty launches were running and Rabbit and I were
spared the embarrassment of pleading for a ride home on humanitarian grounds.
The prospect of swimming ashore from the Gompers was less appealing than you
might imagine.

Freakin' sharks. Why does it always have to be freakin' sharks?

Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

[Dav1936531]

>From: (Gordon)
>
>
><snip>
>Freakin' sharks. Why does it always have to be freakin' sharks?
>Gordon

Hey, good story. You guys are lucky that thing didn't catch you in the open
water between the shore and the ship.....cause, um, those hammerheads, as I am
sure you are aware, are one of the 14 or so shark species known to have
attacked humans. And one that big.....well, it wouldn't just bite off a leg or
something.

Yikes. Just being in the open water with that thing must've been pretty creepy.
Dave

[Peter Twydell]

In article >, PosterBoy
> writes
>
>"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
>> >From: Peter Twydell
>> >
>>
>> >>Dav1936531 wrote:
>> >>He'd have been feeding the sharks at the bottom of the channel faster
>then a
>> speeding bullet. :)
>>
>> >Only if he were plankton; AFAIK the only sharks there are the Basking
>> >kind.
>>
>> Yeah, I wondered when I wrote that if there were any man-eaters in the
>> channel.......one never hears about any attacks there, as opposed to, say
>Oz,
>> where surfers chewed up quite regularly by the nasty shark varieties they
>have.
>> Dave
>
> Among the interesting information tidbits at Sue and Jeri Drake's web page
>(http://www.sue-jeri.demon.co.uk/ams.htm)
>is a chart DOMESTIC SHARK SPECIES AREA/LOCATION ACTUAL GUIDE which lists
>these sharks and shark-types available in the Channnel to those with an
>adequate supply of lime juice:
>
>Mako Shark S/W English Channel
>Hammerhead Shark S/W English Channel
>Porbeagle Shark English Channel, South and West Wales, Western Isles and
>Scrabster
>Blunt Nose Six Gill Shark S/W Cornwall
>Thresher Shark English Channel, Luce Bay
>Blue Shark English Channel, S/W Wales, North Devon
>AND:
>Tope, Monkfish, Spurdog, Common Smooth Hound, Starry Smooth Hound, Lesser
>Spotted Dogfish, Greater Spotted Dogfish, Blackmouth Dogfish.
>
>Cheers.
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks for the info. Most of those are harmless-ish, aren't they?
Predominantly at the SW end of the Channel, where the water is warmer
than the narrow bit at Dover.

Scary item in The Times this morning: a Great White has been seen off
the coast of Devon.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,2,00.html and search for
"shark".
Although, strictly speaking, it's not the English Channel, it's close
enough!
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

[Simon Robbins]

"David McArthur" > wrote in message
> I wonder if there's a military application for this Eg. Special Ops
> teams being dropped up to 30 miles from their tgt???

What, and carrying a 200 lb equipment backpack too? Doubt it. Still,
probably wont stop them nicking the idea for the next Bond film.

Si

[Simon Robbins]

"Gordon" > wrote in message
...
> Not one of those Channel sharks listed would last five minutes in the
Indian
> Ocean.
> They'd be useful as bait, however. :)
>

A couple of years ago some shark expert allegedly spotted a Great White off
of Padstow, North Cornwall. I'm tempted to suspect it was more likely a
large Mako, being a smaller cousin of the GW in the same crescent-fin
family, but I defer to the expert... No White has ever been landed from
the British coast though.

However, there have been Mako attacks off the British coast in the past, but
they're rare. The only one I can recall was a couple of divers at The
Mannacles near Falmouth in Cornwall. Threshers and Hammerheads have also
been found in the waters, but I'm not aware of any attacks. You're more
likely to choke on a turd than get eaten by sharks in British waters!

Si

[Peter Twydell]

In article >, Errol Cavit
> writes
>
>"Peter Twydell" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >, Tuollaf43
>> > writes
>> (robert arndt) wrote in message
>news:<9b35beb1.0307312212.2f94
>> >...
>> >>
>http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,00.h
>tm
>> >l
>> >>
>> >> Rob
>> >
>> >Why does everyone have to use the English channel as a bench mark? Why
>> >not the gulf of tonkin (or whatever).
>>
>> Because it's the ultimate test of foreignness: English v. French.
>>
>> It's also a big psychological barrier. The Romans/Angles, Saxons,
>> Jutes/Normans managed to invade or just get across it and the North Sea,
>> but no-one's crossed it successfully with evil intent since 1066.
>> (Except the Aussies coming for the Ashes, of course.)
>
>Bzzzt wrong. While that might be a often repeated 'fact', there's a list in
>msg id >
>
>
Note the word "successfully" in my post. The point was also made in the
message to which you referred.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
"Simon Robbins" > wrote:

> "David McArthur" > wrote in message
> > I wonder if there's a military application for this Eg. Special Ops
> > teams being dropped up to 30 miles from their tgt???
>
> What, and carrying a 200 lb equipment backpack too? Doubt it. Still,
> probably wont stop them nicking the idea for the next Bond film.

Um... they already "nicked" it for the last one...

<http://www.kineticaerospace.com/>

--


Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Mark and Kim Smith]

All right, I was quoting Woody, then. Buzz just made everything sound better.

http://www.bunchobikes.com

Gordon wrote:

> nonononooo, Buzz Lightyear says its "falling with style". Don't any of you
> have little kids?! :)
>
> v/r
> Gordon
> <====(A+C====>
> USN SAR Aircrew
>
> "Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
> "Nothing but my forehead, sir."

[Errol Cavit]

"Peter Twydell" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Errol Cavit
> > writes
> >
> >"Peter Twydell" > wrote in message
> ...
<snip>
> >>
> >> Because it's the ultimate test of foreignness: English v. French.
> >>
> >> It's also a big psychological barrier. The Romans/Angles, Saxons,
> >> Jutes/Normans managed to invade or just get across it and the North
Sea,
> >> but no-one's crossed it successfully with evil intent since 1066.
> >> (Except the Aussies coming for the Ashes, of course.)
> >
> >Bzzzt wrong. While that might be a often repeated 'fact', there's a list
in
> >msg id >
> >
> >
> Note the word "successfully" in my post. The point was also made in the
> message to which you referred.


"I think that
makes the point that invading England was relatively easy. Taking
control once you'd landed was somewhat more difficult."

That's a literal statement, not understatement for effect. The channel
wasn't what caused those invasions (or rather some of them) to fail.
Successful landing was followed by defeat (or success) on land (supply lines
not being required to cross the water after transport for much of history.)


--
Errol Cavit | to email, my middle initial is G | von Sanders (8/8/15):
"What can be done to save the situation?" Kemal: "We must place all the
commands under one commander." "Is there no alternative?" "No. No
alternative. You must place all the forces under my command." "But surely
there are too many." "Too few" replied Kemal and hung up.

[Gordon]

>You guys are lucky that thing didn't catch you in the open
>water between the shore and the ship....

affirmative.

>
>Yikes. Just being in the open water with that thing must've been pretty
>creepy.

Put it this way - I just plain *never* look forward to Shark Week on tv...

v/r
Gordon

[David Lesher]

(Gordon) writes:

>>
>>I wonder if there's a military application for this Eg. Special Ops
>>teams being dropped up to 30 miles from their tgt???

>no comment, for the last decade. :)


Looks warmer than what a friend used to use. But I have to wonder about the
radar profile.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Dav1936531]

>From: (ArtKramr)
>
>
>I spent about10 years scuba diving. One day I was talking to an old
professional diver and I said to him, " In all my years of diving I never saw
a shark". He answered, " Mabe you never saw sharks, but sharks have seen
you". Now that's creepy.
>Arthur Kramer

As long as they're just looking, it's OK. It's that tasting business that'll
start all the trouble.
Dave

[Richard Brooks]

Dav1936531 wrote:
>> From: (robert arndt)
>> >
>>
>> http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6841794%5E401,0
>> 0.html Rob
>
> I saw video of this guy flying his rig on ABC news. Jumped from
> somewhere around 30K using oxygen and a specially heated suit.
>
> Since we were discussing glide ratios earlier, I fail to believe he
> would have made it that far if his wing set-up was made of lead. He'd
> have been feeding the sharks at the bottom of the channel faster then
> a speeding bullet. :)


Nah, all the channel traffic killed them off thousands of years ago! ;-)



Richard.

[Mary Shafer]

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:31:39 +0100, Peter Twydell
> wrote:

> It's also a big psychological barrier. The Romans/Angles, Saxons,
> Jutes/Normans managed to invade or just get across it and the North Sea,
> but no-one's crossed it successfully with evil intent since 1066.
> (Except the Aussies coming for the Ashes, of course.)

The Royal Netherlands Marines (Korps Mariniers) managed to cross the
Channel, run up the Thames, and do a little invading and sacking in
1666.

The Royal Netherlands Marines were established on 10 Dec 1665 during
the Dutch Wars (which caused the British to form the Royal Marines on
28 Oct 1664) so they hit the ground running.

The oldest marine corps in the world was established on 26 Feb 1537,
by the way.

Mary

[Keith Willshaw]

"Mary Shafer" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:31:39 +0100, Peter Twydell
> > wrote:
>
> > It's also a big psychological barrier. The Romans/Angles, Saxons,
> > Jutes/Normans managed to invade or just get across it and the North Sea,
> > but no-one's crossed it successfully with evil intent since 1066.
> > (Except the Aussies coming for the Ashes, of course.)
>
> The Royal Netherlands Marines (Korps Mariniers) managed to cross the
> Channel, run up the Thames, and do a little invading and sacking in
> 1666.
>
> The Royal Netherlands Marines were established on 10 Dec 1665 during
> the Dutch Wars (which caused the British to form the Royal Marines on
> 28 Oct 1664) so they hit the ground running.
>
> The oldest marine corps in the world was established on 26 Feb 1537,
> by the way.
>

I kinda doubt that , I seem to recall the Phoenicians were pretty
good at that type of warfare a couple of millenia earlier and the
Athenians did a fair number of amphib operations too.

Keith

[Mary Shafer]

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:19:37 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"
> wrote:

>
> "Mary Shafer" > wrote in message
> ...

> > The oldest marine corps in the world was established on 26 Feb 1537,
> > by the way.

> I kinda doubt that , I seem to recall the Phoenicians were pretty
> good at that type of warfare a couple of millenia earlier and the
> Athenians did a fair number of amphib operations too.

Where are they now? Were they formally constituted? What date?
It takes more than amphibious operations to make a marine corps.

If it makes you feel better, change my sentence to "The oldest modern
marine corps...." or "The oldest marine corps still in existence...."

You're just splitting hairs because it's not the Royal Marines.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

[robert arndt]

> > The oldest marine corps in the world was established on 26 Feb 1537,
> > by the way.
> >
>
> I kinda doubt that , I seem to recall the Phoenicians were pretty
> good at that type of warfare a couple of millenia earlier and the
> Athenians did a fair number of amphib operations too.
>
> Keith

Spain was the first country to acquire a marine force when Charles V
created the Campanias Viejas del Mar de Napole in 1537. From Lepante
in 1571 to Cuba in 1898 Spanish marines fought in all battles that
made Spain a great maritime nation.

Rob

[Keith Willshaw]

"robert arndt" > wrote in message
om...
> > > The oldest marine corps in the world was established on 26 Feb 1537,
> > > by the way.
> > >
> >
> > I kinda doubt that , I seem to recall the Phoenicians were pretty
> > good at that type of warfare a couple of millenia earlier and the
> > Athenians did a fair number of amphib operations too.
> >
> > Keith
>
> Spain was the first country to acquire a marine force when Charles V
> created the Campanias Viejas del Mar de Napole in 1537. From Lepante
> in 1571 to Cuba in 1898 Spanish marines fought in all battles that
> made Spain a great maritime nation.
>
> Rob

We know from Herodotus that both the Romans and Phoenicians
had marines. It was at Mylae, west of Messana and south of Lipari
that Hannibal lost to the Romans who had equipped their quinqueremes
with the corvus and packed them full of marines who stormed the
Carthaginian ships.

Keith

[robert arndt]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message >...
> "robert arndt" > wrote in message
> om...
> > > > The oldest marine corps in the world was established on 26 Feb 1537,
> > > > by the way.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I kinda doubt that , I seem to recall the Phoenicians were pretty
> > > good at that type of warfare a couple of millenia earlier and the
> > > Athenians did a fair number of amphib operations too.
> > >
> > > Keith
> >
> > Spain was the first country to acquire a marine force when Charles V
> > created the Campanias Viejas del Mar de Napole in 1537. From Lepante
> > in 1571 to Cuba in 1898 Spanish marines fought in all battles that
> > made Spain a great maritime nation.
> >
> > Rob
>
> We know from Herodotus that both the Romans and Phoenicians
> had marines. It was at Mylae, west of Messana and south of Lipari
> that Hannibal lost to the Romans who had equipped their quinqueremes
> with the corvus and packed them full of marines who stormed the
> Carthaginian ships.
>
> Keith

You are confusing ancient amphibious warfare with the creation of a
DEDICATED MARINE FORCE. The ancients crammed ships full of foot
soldiers and landed them on hostile shores- so what? Riverine warfare
had been going on since 3000 BC but none of the nations/empires
involved created a highly specialized marine force exclusively for
amphibious warfare. That didn't happen until Spain created the first
in 1537 followed by France in 1662 with the "Premiere Compagnie de la
Mer" raised by Cardinal de Richelieu, the chief minister to the King,
followed by Britain in 1664 with the Duke of York and Albany's
"Maritime Regiment of Foot".

Rob

p.s. Pirates and Vikings were also noted for their amphibious
landings, so do you consider them marines as well? Of course not!

[Simon Robbins]

"Chad Irby" > wrote in message
...
> Um... they already "nicked" it for the last one...
>
> <http://www.kineticaerospace.com/>

Oh yeah. Well, just shows how memorable I found that movie!

Si

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
"Simon Robbins" > wrote:

> "Chad Irby" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Um... they already "nicked" it for the last one...
> >
> > <http://www.kineticaerospace.com/>
>
> Oh yeah. Well, just shows how memorable I found that movie!

Halle Berry in a bikini, Halle Berry in a leather suit.

If you didn't find that memorable, then it's no wonder you missed the
rest of it.

--


Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Simon Robbins]

"Chad Irby" > wrote in message
...
> Halle Berry in a bikini, Halle Berry in a leather suit.
>
> If you didn't find that memorable, then it's no wonder you missed the
> rest of it.

Unfortunately, it's all kind of swamped by "Halle Berry crying her eyes out
like a child at the Oscars." Besides, after twenty Bond movies full of
class totty one does kind of merge along with all the others. Now, Jane
Seymour. She's still my favourite..

Si

[Paul J. Adam]

In message >, Simon Robbins
> writes
>Besides, after twenty Bond movies full of
>class totty one does kind of merge along with all the others. Now, Jane
>Seymour. She's still my favourite..

Famke Janssen for me, thanks :)

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBox<at>jrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk