Air Force Uniform Envy

[Thomas Schoene]

The Air Force just can't stop monkeying with its uniforms, can it. Last
time, they wanted to look more like the Navy (or maybe the airlines).

This time, it looks like the Air Force has a severe case of uniform envy
over the Marine Corps' new utilities. So they've gone and gotten their own
custom cammies, too. They even have the of-so-modern Air Force logo
embedded in the pattern, just like the EGA in the marine utilities. Except
the Air Force cammies come in fashionable blue, green, and grey, just the
thing for blending in with the wild blue yonder (or maybe with the concrete
on the flight line).

http://www.af.mil/stories/story.asp?storyID=123005370

I like the comment about needing "a uniform that fulfills our unique air and
space missions". What, does it double as a space suit or something?

For a real sign as to how much this is driven by the Marines, look at the
soft cap that staff sergeant is wearing about half way down the page. Does
that shape look a bit familiar?

http://www.af.mil/search/media_all.asp?storyID=123005370

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[william cogswell]

Well concidering that the US Air Force is the youngest service :), it goes a
long way to explaining the fact that they erratic when it comes to their
uniforms. tho for the life of me i can't figure out why they need cammo who
are they trying to hid from the pilots?


cry havoc and let slip the hamsters of war


"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message
> The Air Force just can't stop monkeying with its uniforms, can it. Last
> time, they wanted to look more like the Navy (or maybe the airlines).
>
> This time, it looks like the Air Force has a severe case of uniform envy
> over the Marine Corps' new utilities. So they've gone and gotten their
own
> custom cammies, too. They even have the of-so-modern Air Force logo
> embedded in the pattern, just like the EGA in the marine utilities.
Except
> the Air Force cammies come in fashionable blue, green, and grey, just the
> thing for blending in with the wild blue yonder (or maybe with the
concrete
> on the flight line).
> http://www.af.mil/stories/story.asp?storyID=123005370
> I like the comment about needing "a uniform that fulfills our unique air
and
> space missions". What, does it double as a space suit or something?
>
> For a real sign as to how much this is driven by the Marines, look at the
> soft cap that staff sergeant is wearing about half way down the page.
Does
> that shape look a bit familiar?

[[email protected]]

>"william cogswell" > wrote:

>Well concidering that the US Air Force is the youngest service :), it goes a
>long way to explaining the fact that they erratic when it comes to their
>uniforms. tho for the life of me i can't figure out why they need cammo who
>are they trying to hid from the pilots?

Hilarious!

-Mike Marron

[S. Sampson]

"william cogswell" > wrote
>
> Well concidering that the US Air Force is the youngest service :), it goes a
> long way to explaining the fact that they erratic when it comes to their
> uniforms. tho for the life of me i can't figure out why they need cammo who
> are they trying to hid from the pilots?

I think Idi Amin had a uniform like that. Africans and Orientals really like
uniforms like this. You see them in Singapore, for example...

[Yeff]

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:57:09 GMT, Thomas Schoene wrote:

> For a real sign as to how much this is driven by the Marines, look at the
> soft cap that staff sergeant is wearing about half way down the page. Does
> that shape look a bit familiar?

I'm hoping that since these uniforms are still beta they'll come to their
senses over the cover. Develop one that's totally unique or keep it the
same as they've been using (which'll be quickly replaced by morale caps in
squadron usage), but don't try to copy the Marines. That cover is uniquely
Marine and should be left alone.

-Jeff B. (wondering about blue jungles)
yeff at erols dot com

[Thomas Schoene]

"Yeff" > wrote in message

> On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:57:09 GMT, Thomas Schoene wrote:
>
> > For a real sign as to how much this is driven by the Marines, look
> > at the soft cap that staff sergeant is wearing about half way down
> > the page. Does that shape look a bit familiar?
>
> I'm hoping that since these uniforms are still beta they'll come to
> their senses over the cover. Develop one that's totally unique or
> keep it the same as they've been using (which'll be quickly replaced
> by morale caps in squadron usage), but don't try to copy the Marines.
> That cover is uniquely Marine and should be left alone.

The only folks I know of other than Marines who can get away with wearing
that cover are SeaBees (respect born out of frequent cooperation) and SEALs
(are you going to tell them they can't?)

OTOH, the security police beret actually looks decent with this uniform.

Speaking of which -- any bets on how long the Beret lasts in the Army now
that Shinseki is gone? I give it three months.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[Pete]

"Thomas Schoene" > wrote

> They even have the of-so-modern Air Force logo
> embedded in the pattern, just like the EGA in the marine utilities.

That is just a standard name tape. Over the other pocket is the last name.
Been that way forever.

Pete

[B2431]

>> They even have the of-so-modern Air Force logo
>> embedded in the pattern, just like the EGA in the marine utilities.
>
>That is just a standard name tape. Over the other pocket is the last name.
>Been that way forever.
>
>Pete
>
>
Check the other link, there's a logo.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[davidG35]

One of the things I think is funny is that in the 80's the AF went to BDU's
to save $ since they didn't want to pay the price for the old green
fatigues, now with our significantly smaller AF I can well imagine the cost
for the uniforms, just feel sorry as hell for the AF guys attached to army
units since that uniform will be sniper bait extraordinaire. Just keep the
old BDUs let the marines play by themselves and let the troops have their
colorful squadron moral caps you took away in the 80s.
GMAN

[Michael Williamson]

davidG35 wrote:

> One of the things I think is funny is that in the 80's the AF went to BDU's
> to save $ since they didn't want to pay the price for the old green
> fatigues, now with our significantly smaller AF I can well imagine the cost
> for the uniforms, just feel sorry as hell for the AF guys attached to army
> units since that uniform will be sniper bait extraordinaire.


According to the article I read today, the Air Force expects the
uniforms to save money, at least for the troops using it. The new
material is (supposedly, anyway) more durable than the material used
in the current BDU and doesn't require starching or special laundering/
ironing. I thought that this was sort of ironic myself, as the BDU
label says that it shouldn't be starched (or ironed, IIRC, but I don't
have any handy to check). They also said that there were some
suggestions that the camouflage MIGHT actually be more effective than
the BDU pattern, but didn't specify the conditions under which that
might be true.

Mike

[Sunny]

"Michael Williamson" > wrote in
message ...

Could not resist :-) (when I see statements like) :-

" Recalling the "tiger-stripe" camouflage pattern used during the Vietnam
War, but with the distinctive Air Force logo embedded into a color scheme
that preliminary testing indicates may provide better camouflage."

Is the AF going to serve in some blue jungle somewhere?

[Luca Morandini]

Sunny wrote:
> "Michael Williamson" > wrote in
> message ...
>
> Could not resist :-) (when I see statements like) :-
>
> " Recalling the "tiger-stripe" camouflage pattern used during the Vietnam
> War, but with the distinctive Air Force logo embedded into a color scheme
> that preliminary testing indicates may provide better camouflage."
>
> Is the AF going to serve in some blue jungle somewhere?
>

at the Pristina airport, back in 2001, I noticed the cute blue-pattern,
tiger-like camouflage used by Indian soldiers (similar to the new USAF
one, I suppose).

I wondered about the purpose of this strange BDU, and my answer was: to
blend in the urban environment (I thought grey-pattern would have been
better though).

Could this explanation apply to airmen as well ?

Regards,

------------------------------------------
Luca Morandini
GIS Consultant

http://space.virgilio.it/kumora/index.html
------------------------------------------

[Thomas Schoene]

"Pete" > wrote in message

> "Thomas Schoene" > wrote
>
> > They even have the of-so-modern Air Force logo
> > embedded in the pattern, just like the EGA in the marine utilities.
>
> That is just a standard name tape. Over the other pocket is the last
> name. Been that way forever.

No, take a look at this picture.

http://www.af.mil/search/media.asp?mediaID=6889&mediaType=1

There's a tiny little logo, maybe a half inch across, worked into the actual
camo pattern. The Marines did the same thing with their new uniform, hiding
the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor in the spots of the pattern. It's there mainly
to ensure that no other services can use the same uniforms.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[Leadfoot]

"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message
k.net...
> The Air Force just can't stop monkeying with its uniforms, can it. Last
> time, they wanted to look more like the Navy (or maybe the airlines).
>
> This time, it looks like the Air Force has a severe case of uniform envy
> over the Marine Corps' new utilities. So they've gone and gotten their
own
> custom cammies, too. They even have the of-so-modern Air Force logo
> embedded in the pattern, just like the EGA in the marine utilities.
Except
> the Air Force cammies come in fashionable blue, green, and grey, just the
> thing for blending in with the wild blue yonder (or maybe with the
concrete
> on the flight line).
>
> http://www.af.mil/stories/story.asp?storyID=123005370
>
> I like the comment about needing "a uniform that fulfills our unique air
and
> space missions". What, does it double as a space suit or something?
>
> For a real sign as to how much this is driven by the Marines, look at the
> soft cap that staff sergeant is wearing about half way down the page.
Does
> that shape look a bit familiar?
>
> http://www.af.mil/search/media_all.asp?storyID=123005370
>
> --
> Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
> "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
> special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

When did they stop urine testing? ;-)



>
>

[Ragnar]

"EndX" > wrote in message
...
> That is one nasty looking uniform! looks like something out of GI Joe, and
> her beret looks silly, but that's besides the point. What's then gen on
> laundering the uniforms? Did they have to be professionally washed
> previously? Why? What's wrong with chucking BDUs in the washing machine
and
> using spray starch if need be?

BDUs aren't "supposed" to be sent to the cleaners. They were designed to be
washed, dried, and then worn. The problem is that the Air Force doesn't
have a clue and thinks BDUs are supposed to have creases.

[George Shirley]

Michael Williamson wrote:

>
>
> davidG35 wrote:
>
>> One of the things I think is funny is that in the 80's the AF went to
>> BDU's
>> to save $ since they didn't want to pay the price for the old green
>> fatigues, now with our significantly smaller AF I can well imagine the
>> cost
>> for the uniforms, just feel sorry as hell for the AF guys attached to
>> army
>> units since that uniform will be sniper bait extraordinaire.
>
>
>
> According to the article I read today, the Air Force expects the
> uniforms to save money, at least for the troops using it. The new
> material is (supposedly, anyway) more durable than the material used
> in the current BDU and doesn't require starching or special laundering/
> ironing. I thought that this was sort of ironic myself, as the BDU
> label says that it shouldn't be starched (or ironed, IIRC, but I don't
> have any handy to check). They also said that there were some
> suggestions that the camouflage MIGHT actually be more effective than
> the BDU pattern, but didn't specify the conditions under which that
> might be true.
>
> Mike
>

Falling out of a blue sky with white streaky clouds?

If they had made them white they would have looked more like Nixon's
"Palace Guards."

George

[George Shirley]

Thomas Schoene wrote:

> "Pete" > wrote in message
>
>
>>"Thomas Schoene" > wrote
>>
>>
>>> They even have the of-so-modern Air Force logo
>>>embedded in the pattern, just like the EGA in the marine utilities.
>>
>>That is just a standard name tape. Over the other pocket is the last
>>name. Been that way forever.
>
>
> No, take a look at this picture.
>
> http://www.af.mil/search/media.asp?mediaID=6889&mediaType=1
>
> There's a tiny little logo, maybe a half inch across, worked into the actual
> camo pattern. The Marines did the same thing with their new uniform, hiding
> the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor in the spots of the pattern. It's there mainly
> to ensure that no other services can use the same uniforms.
>
> --
> Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
> "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
> special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)
>
>
Damn, I was expecting the Gucchi logo, how trite.

George, enjoying this thread

[av8r]

Hi

I remember seeing Lebanese militia members wearing gaudy looking
three-tone blue BDU's. They stood out like a sore thumb.

Cheers...Chris

[B2431]

>BDUs aren't "supposed" to be sent to the cleaners. They were designed to be
>washed, dried, and then worn. The problem is that the Air Force doesn't
>have a clue and thinks BDUs are supposed to have creases.
>
I was in spec ops and was in one of the first units in theAir Force to get
BDUs. We were told not to starch and press BDUs because it killed the Nomex™
and to not have the pockets sewn shut. Doing such would make the uniform
"unservicable."

Then again, in the 1970s permanant press fatigues were prohibited on the
flightline because they were static electricity risks. A few years later the
cotton fatigues were gone and all you could wear were permanent press.

I guess logic loses out to fashion every time. How long before the new uniform
has to be tailor fitted?

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[Michael]

"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message >...
> The Air Force just can't stop monkeying with its uniforms, can it. Last
> time, they wanted to look more like the Navy (or maybe the airlines).
>
> This time, it looks like the Air Force has a severe case of uniform envy
> over the Marine Corps' new utilities. So they've gone and gotten their own
> custom cammies, too. They even have the of-so-modern Air Force logo
> embedded in the pattern,

Someone other than me hates that new logo? The AF needs to go back
the old one from the 50s!

>just like the EGA in the marine utilities. Except
>the Air Force cammies come in fashionable blue, green, and grey, just
the
>thing for blending in with the wild blue yonder (or maybe with the
concrete
>on the flight line).

That is without a doubt the dumbest, most ugly uni I've ever seen.

~Michael

[Howard Berkowitz]

In article >, "EndX"
> wrote:

> >
> > http://www.af.mil/stories/story.asp?storyID=123005370
>
> That is one nasty looking uniform! looks like something out of GI Joe,
> and
> her beret looks silly, but that's besides the point. What's then gen on
> laundering the uniforms? Did they have to be professionally washed
> previously? Why? What's wrong with chucking BDUs in the washing machine
> and
> using spray starch if need be?
>
> just curious
>
> BMFull
>
>

Note she's in SSO. Perhaps this is the new color scheme for SCIFs.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Air Force Uniform Envy
>From: Howard Berkowitz
>Date: 8/8/03 12:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In article >, "EndX"
> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > http://www.af.mil/stories/story.asp?storyID=123005370
>>
>> That is one nasty looking uniform! looks like something out of GI Joe,
>> and
>> her beret looks silly, but that's besides the point. What's then gen on
>> laundering the uniforms? Did they have to be professionally washed
>> previously? Why? What's wrong with chucking BDUs in the washing machine
>> and
>> using spray starch if need be?
>>
>> just curious
>>
>> BMFull
>>
>>
>
>Note she's in SSO. Perhaps this is the new color scheme for SCIFs.
>


Real soldiers wear OD's. girls wear blue.


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[S. Sampson]

"Michael" > wrote
>
> Someone other than me hates that new logo? The AF needs to go back
> the old one from the 50s!

Sure, Sure... Who gives a **** what they had in the 50's.

> That is without a doubt the dumbest, most ugly uni I've ever seen.

Looks good on blacks, orientals, and hispanics--the backbone of the
modern air force. The fact that it doesn't look that good on white people,
should be no reason to throw it out.

[Joe Osman]

davidG35 wrote:
> One of the things I think is funny is that in the 80's the AF went to BDU's
> to save $ since they didn't want to pay the price for the old green
> fatigues, now with our significantly smaller AF I can well imagine the cost
> for the uniforms, just feel sorry as hell for the AF guys attached to army
> units since that uniform will be sniper bait extraordinaire. Just keep the
> old BDUs let the marines play by themselves and let the troops have their
> colorful squadron moral caps you took away in the 80s.
> GMAN
>
>

I've worked as a civilian for the Air Force since 1987, and the only
time I've seen anyone in the current Army style camouflage cap is when
they transfer in. They quickly start wearing their squadron's baseball cap.

Joe

[Les Matheson]

BDU's weren't and aren't Nomex. The no starch, no iron policy was to
preserve the IR suppression characteristics of the fabric. Starch allowed
the heat to pass through, and the shininess if ironed was reflective.

Les


"B2431" > wrote in message
...
> >BDUs aren't "supposed" to be sent to the cleaners. They were designed to
be
> >washed, dried, and then worn. The problem is that the Air Force doesn't
> >have a clue and thinks BDUs are supposed to have creases.
> >
> I was in spec ops and was in one of the first units in theAir Force to get
> BDUs. We were told not to starch and press BDUs because it killed the
NomexT
> and to not have the pockets sewn shut. Doing such would make the uniform
> "unservicable."
>
> Then again, in the 1970s permanant press fatigues were prohibited on the
> flightline because they were static electricity risks. A few years later
the
> cotton fatigues were gone and all you could wear were permanent press.
>
> I guess logic loses out to fashion every time. How long before the new
uniform
> has to be tailor fitted?
>
> Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Andrew]

So what do the officers wear?

On 9 Aug 2003 08:05:39 -0700, (Kirk Stant)
wrote:

>Anyway, the French have the right idea - their Air Force enlisted
>troops (male and female) in hot climates wear shorts and sleeveless
>mesh shirts. Real short shorts, in the case of the females. Talk
>about our females being jelous, in their baggy BDUs and black
>T-shirts!

[B2431]

>BDU's weren't and aren't Nomex. The no starch, no iron policy was to
>preserve the IR suppression characteristics of the fabric. Starch allowed
>the heat to pass through, and the shininess if ironed was reflective.
>
>Les

We were told the BDUs were Nomex treated and that starch would kill it. There
were several things in writing from the base commander on down about.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[Les Matheson]

Well they lied (not the first time). They were treated to suppress IR, and
that is what the starch defeated, by filling the pores in the fabric with a
shiny hard surface.

Les


"B2431" > wrote in message
...
> >BDU's weren't and aren't Nomex. The no starch, no iron policy was to
> >preserve the IR suppression characteristics of the fabric. Starch
allowed
> >the heat to pass through, and the shininess if ironed was reflective.
> >
> >Les
>
> We were told the BDUs were Nomex treated and that starch would kill it.
There
> were several things in writing from the base commander on down about.
>
> Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[Joey Bishop]

"Les Matheson" > wrote
>
> Well they lied (not the first time). They were treated to suppress IR, and
> that is what the starch defeated, by filling the pores in the fabric with a
> shiny hard surface.

We were told to wash and wear. They had name tapes and stripes. Then
the non-ops pukes started making them into fag-suits with patches all over
the pockets. It was no longer a battle-dress, and the next logical step was
making it mandatory that they be starched. So it goes...

Not a big deal for me, I wore a zoom-bag 99.9% of the time, except I had
to have two sets in my mobility gear, and then we added the desert stuff
which also was turned into a fag-suit by a bunch of deployed queers.

The air force is all about queers now, and very rarely do you see a real
man or woman in uniform since the end of the 20th Century...

The new one is just a blue fag-suit, for the same queers, and they'll have
squadron patches and typewriter wings on it before Christmas.

[Sunny]

Sort of sums it up pretty nicely :-)

"Joey Bishop" > wrote in message news:oYgZa.307349
> We were told to wash and wear. They had name tapes and stripes. Then
> the non-ops pukes started making them into fag-suits with patches all over
> the pockets. It was no longer a battle-dress, and the next logical step
was
> making it mandatory that they be starched. So it goes...
>
> Not a big deal for me, I wore a zoom-bag 99.9% of the time, except I had
> to have two sets in my mobility gear, and then we added the desert stuff
> which also was turned into a fag-suit by a bunch of deployed queers.
>
> The air force is all about queers now, and very rarely do you see a real
> man or woman in uniform since the end of the 20th Century...
>
> The new one is just a blue fag-suit, for the same queers, and they'll have
> squadron patches and typewriter wings on it before Christmas.

[Tank Fixer]

In article >,
says...
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 23:12:10 GMT, Joe Osman wrote:
>
> > I've worked as a civilian for the Air Force since 1987, and the only
> > time I've seen anyone in the current Army style camouflage cap is when
> > they transfer in. They quickly start wearing their squadron's baseball cap.
>
> I was in a mobile SIGINT unit for my last assignment. Not only weren't we
> allowed to where morale caps, we weren't even allowed to wear squadron or
> command patches on our uniforms.
>

Yeah, but you guys were those secret squirrel dudes...

I bet you still wore teh secret decoder ring though...


--
--
Remember, Friendly fire, Isn't :

[William Hughes]

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 02:43:03 GMT, in rec.aviation.military Tank Fixer
> wrote:

> Rough TDY for the USAF, no cable in the hotel....

What's a hotel?

(ex-USAF E-6, AFSC 30770)

[B2431]

>The air force is all about queers now, and very rarely do you see a real
>man or woman in uniform since the end of the 20th Century...
>
>The new one is just a blue fag-suit, for the same queers, and they'll have
>squadron patches and typewriter wings on it before Christmas.

So that's why you joined?

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[Joey Bishop]

"B2431" > wrote
> >
> >The air force is all about queers now, and very rarely do you see a real
> >man or woman in uniform since the end of the 20th Century...
> >
> >The new one is just a blue fag-suit, for the same queers, and they'll have
> >squadron patches and typewriter wings on it before Christmas.
>
> So that's why you joined?

No fluffy... Retired in the 20th.

[George Shirley]

B2431 wrote:

>>BDU's weren't and aren't Nomex. The no starch, no iron policy was to
>>preserve the IR suppression characteristics of the fabric. Starch allowed
>>the heat to pass through, and the shininess if ironed was reflective.
>>
>>Les
>
>
> We were told the BDUs were Nomex treated and that starch would kill it. There
> were several things in writing from the base commander on down about.
>
> Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Nomex is not a treatment, it is a fabric made and sold by Dupont for at
least thirty years. It is flash resistant, not fire proof, and is hot in
the summer and cold in the winter but good for up to about 900F in a
flash fire IIRC. Got some in the closet as the refineries around here
require it for entry to operating units.

George

[B2431]

>
>"B2431" > wrote
>> >
>> >The air force is all about queers now, and very rarely do you see a real
>> >man or woman in uniform since the end of the 20th Century...
>> >
>> >The new one is just a blue fag-suit, for the same queers, and they'll have
>> >squadron patches and typewriter wings on it before Christmas.
>>
>> So that's why you joined?
>
>No fluffy... Retired in the 20th.
>
Then why are you so bitter you need to insult people who are doing precisely as
you did? The men and women in the service are just as good as the ones you and
I knew.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired