Does China have a plan?

[T3]

Given the USA's dependence on space based assets for communication, control
as well as surveillance and targeting not to mention what else we are not
aware of (black ops), it would seem that the Chinese have robust projects to
deny the USA space at a time of its choosing. Recent reports indicate they
(Chicoms) are hiding a major part their defense spending, it would appear
they have plan. Is it Taiwan or maybe "something" larger?


T3


http://www.space.com/news/china_dod_030801.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/chinadefense000306.html

[Jim Yanik]

"T3" > wrote in
m:

> Given the USA's dependence on space based assets for communication,
> control as well as surveillance and targeting not to mention what else
> we are not aware of (black ops), it would seem that the Chinese have
> robust projects to deny the USA space at a time of its choosing.
> Recent reports indicate they (Chicoms) are hiding a major part their
> defense spending, it would appear they have plan. Is it Taiwan or
> maybe "something" larger?
>
>
>
> T3
>
>
> http://www.space.com/news/china_dod_030801.html
> http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/chinadefense000306.html
>
>
>
>

Well,we know they want Taiwan,the Spratleys and Paracels,and might want a
nice oil source like Indonesia or the Phillipines.Not to mention a nice
security buffer against foreign interference with their plans. They may
have learned a bit from the Japanese expansion of the Pacific.

--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

[T3]

"Jim Yanik" > wrote in message
.. .
> "T3" > wrote in
> m:
>
> > Given the USA's dependence on space based assets for communication,
> > control as well as surveillance and targeting not to mention what else
> > we are not aware of (black ops), it would seem that the Chinese have
> > robust projects to deny the USA space at a time of its choosing.
> > Recent reports indicate they (Chicoms) are hiding a major part their
> > defense spending, it would appear they have plan. Is it Taiwan or
> > maybe "something" larger?
> >
> >
> >
> > T3
> >
> >
> > http://www.space.com/news/china_dod_030801.html
> > http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/chinadefense000306.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Well,we know they want Taiwan,the Spratleys and Paracels,and might want a
> nice oil source like Indonesia or the Phillipines.Not to mention a nice
> security buffer against foreign interference with their plans. They may
> have learned a bit from the Japanese expansion of the Pacific.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik,NRA member
> remove null to contact me


Exactly, that's what scares me!! I have yet to see a counter from the west.
T3

[The CO]

"Roger Dupontel" > wrote in message
...
> Well, they do have a P.L.A.N.
>
> Ok, lame joke.

Not really, as navies go, it's pretty lame....;^)

The CO

[Peter Kemp]

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 02:44:22 GMT, "T3" > wrote:

>
>"Jim Yanik" > wrote in message
.. .
>> "T3" > wrote in
>> m:
>>
>> > Given the USA's dependence on space based assets for communication,
>> > control as well as surveillance and targeting not to mention what else
>> > we are not aware of (black ops), it would seem that the Chinese have
>> > robust projects to deny the USA space at a time of its choosing.
>> > Recent reports indicate they (Chicoms) are hiding a major part their
>> > defense spending, it would appear they have plan. Is it Taiwan or
>> > maybe "something" larger?
>> >
>> > http://www.space.com/news/china_dod_030801.html
>> > http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/chinadefense000306.html
>>
>> Well,we know they want Taiwan,the Spratleys and Paracels,and might want a
>> nice oil source like Indonesia or the Phillipines.Not to mention a nice
>> security buffer against foreign interference with their plans. They may
>> have learned a bit from the Japanese expansion of the Pacific.
>
>Exactly, that's what scares me!! I have yet to see a counter from the west.

A counter to what? The PLAN isn't suddenly going to emerge as a blue
water navy carrying out the kind of ops you proposed without a decade
of warning (at least) - you can't hide a large warship program from
satellites, and you certainly can't hide amphibious ops.

Do they have a plan? Almost certainly. Do we need to panic now?
absolutely not. Currently they can't seriously challenge the USN -
hell the RN could take on the PLAN on and have a good chance of a win
if it was more than 200nm from land to eliminate a few thousand of
their short range fighters.

[Dave Kearton]

"Peter Kemp" > wrote in message
...
| On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 02:44:22 GMT, "T3" > wrote:
|
| >
||
| Do they have a plan? Almost certainly. Do we need to panic now?
| absolutely not. Currently they can't seriously challenge the USN -
| hell the RN could take on the PLAN on and have a good chance of a win
| if it was more than 200nm from land to eliminate a few thousand of
| their short range fighters.
|


You could even do it inshore if the fleet was protected by EP-3s on CAP



Cheers

Dave Kearton

[john_au]

"Dave Kearton" > wrote in message >...
> "Peter Kemp" > wrote in message
> ...
> | On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 02:44:22 GMT, "T3" > wrote:
> |
> | >
> ||
> | Do they have a plan? Almost certainly. Do we need to panic now?
> | absolutely not. Currently they can't seriously challenge the USN -
> | hell the RN could take on the PLAN on and have a good chance of a win
> | if it was more than 200nm from land to eliminate a few thousand of
> | their short range fighters.
> |
>
>
> You could even do it inshore if the fleet was protected by EP-3s on CAP
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Dave Kearton
This topic should be merged with other topic on China's new DDG
PLAN certainly cannot be understand i doubt RN can hold up against
PLAN near chinese mainland considering the amount of missile boats
and minelayers they have.
But that said PLAN can do very little other be defensive force but
they spending a lot of money to rectify that. They are building 3 new
destroyers order 2 sovremenny for $1.4 billion dollars and 8 Kilo
submarines for 2.4 billion. So definetly throwing a lot of money at
improving their navy. Also there is massive rivalry going on in E Asia
between India, china, S korea and Japan, while current Japan has the
best navy in asia only time will tell which country will come out a
ahead in the near future.

[T3]

"john_au" > wrote in message
om...
> "Dave Kearton" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Peter Kemp" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > | On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 02:44:22 GMT, "T3" > wrote:
> > |
> > | >
> > ||
> > | Do they have a plan? Almost certainly. Do we need to panic now?
> > | absolutely not. Currently they can't seriously challenge the USN -
> > | hell the RN could take on the PLAN on and have a good chance of a win
> > | if it was more than 200nm from land to eliminate a few thousand of
> > | their short range fighters.
> > |
> >
> > snipped and apoligies:)



I'm sorry, but I beg to disagree, from the brief look at
http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp it appears that the Chinese are
using their new found capitalistic ways to finance a major modernization of
their military from top to bottom. Clearly they are in the midst of a
upgrade/modernization not seen before, thanks to Israel and Russia(Clinton
too) it looks like they will be able to skip a generation in the level of
sophistication. Taiwan should take notice as well as Japan, Australia, India
and the USA. It would appear they want to be a force to be "dealt" with, not
only in SE Asia either. Taiwan has not responded on the offered Kidd class
ships(I think) nor the submarines that were approved by the USA sometime
ago, one must wonder why...Is there more here than "meets the eye" or what?
I don't know for sure but from what I've read it sure looks like the Chicoms
are arming themselves with extremely sophisticated and coordinated weapons
for some reason, hmmm. I wonder....

T3

[tim gueguen]

"T3" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "john_au" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Dave Kearton" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > "Peter Kemp" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > | On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 02:44:22 GMT, "T3" > wrote:
> > > |
> > > | >
> > > ||
> > > | Do they have a plan? Almost certainly. Do we need to panic now?
> > > | absolutely not. Currently they can't seriously challenge the USN -
> > > | hell the RN could take on the PLAN on and have a good chance of a
win
> > > | if it was more than 200nm from land to eliminate a few thousand of
> > > | their short range fighters.
> > > |
> > >
> > > snipped and apoligies:)
>
>
>
> I'm sorry, but I beg to disagree, from the brief look at
> http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp it appears that the Chinese are
> using their new found capitalistic ways to finance a major modernization
of
> their military from top to bottom. Clearly they are in the midst of a
> upgrade/modernization not seen before, thanks to Israel and Russia(Clinton
> too) it looks like they will be able to skip a generation in the level of
> sophistication.

Which should only put them 2 generations back in certain areas instead of
four.

>Taiwan should take notice as well as Japan, Australia, India
> and the USA. It would appear they want to be a force to be "dealt" with,
not
> only in SE Asia either. Taiwan has not responded on the offered Kidd class
> ships(I think) nor the submarines that were approved by the USA sometime
> ago, one must wonder why...Is there more here than "meets the eye" or
what?
> I don't know for sure but from what I've read it sure looks like the
Chicoms
> are arming themselves with extremely sophisticated and coordinated weapons
> for some reason,

Yes, so they'll actually have some vague claim to having anywhere near a
modern navy.

tim gueguen 101867

[Peter Skelton]

On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 15:39:23 GMT, "tim gueguen"
> wrote:

>
>"T3" > wrote in message
om...
>>
>> "john_au" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > "Dave Kearton" > wrote in message
>> >...
>> > > "Peter Kemp" > wrote in message
>> > > ...
>> > > | On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 02:44:22 GMT, "T3" > wrote:
>> > > |
>> > > | >
>> > > ||
>> > > | Do they have a plan? Almost certainly. Do we need to panic now?
>> > > | absolutely not. Currently they can't seriously challenge the USN -
>> > > | hell the RN could take on the PLAN on and have a good chance of a
>win
>> > > | if it was more than 200nm from land to eliminate a few thousand of
>> > > | their short range fighters.
>> > > |
>> > >
>> > > snipped and apoligies:)
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I beg to disagree, from the brief look at
>> http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp it appears that the Chinese are
>> using their new found capitalistic ways to finance a major modernization
>of
>> their military from top to bottom. Clearly they are in the midst of a
>> upgrade/modernization not seen before, thanks to Israel and Russia(Clinton
>> too) it looks like they will be able to skip a generation in the level of
>> sophistication.
>
>Which should only put them 2 generations back in certain areas instead of
>four.
>
>>Taiwan should take notice as well as Japan, Australia, India
>> and the USA. It would appear they want to be a force to be "dealt" with,
>not
>> only in SE Asia either. Taiwan has not responded on the offered Kidd class
>> ships(I think) nor the submarines that were approved by the USA sometime
>> ago, one must wonder why...Is there more here than "meets the eye" or
>what?
>> I don't know for sure but from what I've read it sure looks like the
>Chicoms
>> are arming themselves with extremely sophisticated and coordinated weapons
>> for some reason,
>
>Yes, so they'll actually have some vague claim to having anywhere near a
>modern navy.

Meanwhile the development effort will draw the essential
investment capital from their economy, wrecking them as
thoroughly as Japan was wrecked in the twenties and thirties. I
wonder whether they'll collapse like the Soviets or have to be
dragged down like the Japanese? It is something to worry about.
____

Peter Skelton

[T3]

"Peter Skelton" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 15:39:23 GMT, "tim gueguen"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"T3" > wrote in message
> om...
> >>
> >> "john_au" > wrote in message
> >> om...
> >> > "Dave Kearton" > wrote in message
> >> >...
> >> > > "Peter Kemp" > wrote in message
> >> > > ...
> >> > > | On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 02:44:22 GMT, "T3" > wrote:
> >> > > |
> >> > > | >
> >> > > ||
> >> > > | Do they have a plan? Almost certainly. Do we need to panic now?
> >> > > | absolutely not. Currently they can't seriously challenge the
USN -
> >> > > | hell the RN could take on the PLAN on and have a good chance of a
> >win
> >> > > | if it was more than 200nm from land to eliminate a few thousand
of
> >> > > | their short range fighters.
> >> > > |
> >> > >
> >> > > snipped and apoligies:)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm sorry, but I beg to disagree, from the brief look at
> >> http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp it appears that the Chinese are
> >> using their new found capitalistic ways to finance a major
modernization
> >of
> >> their military from top to bottom. Clearly they are in the midst of a
> >> upgrade/modernization not seen before, thanks to Israel and
Russia(Clinton
> >> too) it looks like they will be able to skip a generation in the level
of
> >> sophistication.
> >
> >Which should only put them 2 generations back in certain areas instead of
> >four.
> >
> >>Taiwan should take notice as well as Japan, Australia, India
> >> and the USA. It would appear they want to be a force to be "dealt"
with,
> >not
> >> only in SE Asia either. Taiwan has not responded on the offered Kidd
class
> >> ships(I think) nor the submarines that were approved by the USA
sometime
> >> ago, one must wonder why...Is there more here than "meets the eye" or
> >what?
> >> I don't know for sure but from what I've read it sure looks like the
> >Chicoms
> >> are arming themselves with extremely sophisticated and coordinated
weapons
> >> for some reason,
> >
> >Yes, so they'll actually have some vague claim to having anywhere near a
> >modern navy.
>
> Meanwhile the development effort will draw the essential
> investment capital from their economy, wrecking them as
> thoroughly as Japan was wrecked in the twenties and thirties. I
> wonder whether they'll collapse like the Soviets or have to be
> dragged down like the Japanese? It is something to worry about.
> ____
>
> Peter Skelton
>

Very much so, a further downturn in the economy could really have a
"chilling" effect on the whole region. And make a grab for Taiwan that much
more tempting...

T3