the worst part of the year ...

[Kevin Clarke]

Fellow R.A.O folks,

I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
wks last year...

thanks,
KC

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Kevin Clarke > wrote:

> How long does your annual take?

A few days. The quickest was 24 hours. The longest annual
is not something I want to think about...

This is for a cherokee 140.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Peter Clark]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:56:47 GMT, Kevin Clarke >
wrote:

>Fellow R.A.O folks,
>
>I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
>am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
>wks last year...

Only once went longer than 1 week and that was due to the gear attach
crack SB from Piper which needed parts..

[Mike Spera]

Kevin Clarke wrote:

> Fellow R.A.O folks,
>
> I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
> am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
> wks last year...
>
> thanks,
> KC
It depends on the complexity of the plane, but the inspection itself
takes from a couple of hours (fixed gear single) to a couple of days
(multi-engine turbine with hot section inspections).

What likely is taking all the time is the REPAIR of all the things wrong
with it, combined with "your place in line". Generally, FBOs have more
than one bird to work on. If you have the lowest priority, it can take a
REAL long time. Flight school planes, commercial birds, big ticket
owners, and buddies can push you to the "back of the hangar" for quite
some time. You might ask how much "express" service might cost.

Good Luck,
Mike

[Kevin Clarke]

Mike Spera wrote:
> Kevin Clarke wrote:
>
>> Fellow R.A.O folks,
>>
>> I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is
>> because I am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual
>> take? It was 5 wks last year...
>>
>> thanks,
>> KC
> It depends on the complexity of the plane, but the inspection itself
> takes from a couple of hours (fixed gear single) to a couple of days
> (multi-engine turbine with hot section inspections).
>
> What likely is taking all the time is the REPAIR of all the things
> wrong with it, combined with "your place in line". Generally, FBOs
> have more than one bird to work on. If you have the lowest priority,
> it can take a REAL long time. Flight school planes, commercial birds,
> big ticket owners, and buddies can push you to the "back of the
> hangar" for quite some time. You might ask how much "express" service
> might cost.
>
> Good Luck,
> Mike
yeah, I should have mentioned it is a '73 PA28-180. There is nothing
wrong with it. It flies like a champ. Last year it needed a new magneto
so it took a wee bit longer. The shop services only these sorts of
planes. Other stuff could go in there, but turbine or jets or even multi
are rare. It is other planes. Usually 6 or so at a time. It just takes
forever.

KC

[Peter R.]

On 6/14/2007 5:56:49 PM, Kevin Clarke wrote:

> I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
> am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
> wks last year...

Do you do that thirteen month thing (bring it in on the last week of the 12th
month and have it signed off on the first week of the new month) or are you
fixed to June annuals?

I ask because if you are fixed at June, you ought to consider switching the
annual month to January or February.


--
Peter

[Kevin Clarke]

Peter R. wrote:
> On 6/14/2007 5:56:49 PM, Kevin Clarke wrote:
>
>
>> I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
>> am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
>> wks last year...
>>
>
> Do you do that thirteen month thing (bring it in on the last week of the 12th
> month and have it signed off on the first week of the new month) or are you
> fixed to June annuals?
>
> I ask because if you are fixed at June, you ought to consider switching the
> annual month to January or February.
>
>

choice 1. We drag it out for 13 mos. Last year's annual went in April 1
and we got it back May 5th. This year I brought it in on May 30th, still
counting. I'm not sure if it would help at this particular shop. The
previous partners in this plane have always complained about long
annuals. I think it is a function of the shop and not so much the time
of year.

KC

[Rip]

Kevin Clarke wrote:
> Peter R. wrote:
>
>> On 6/14/2007 5:56:49 PM, Kevin Clarke wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
>>> am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
>>> wks last year...
>>>
>>
>>
>> Do you do that thirteen month thing (bring it in on the last week of
>> the 12th
>> month and have it signed off on the first week of the new month) or
>> are you
>> fixed to June annuals?
>>
>> I ask because if you are fixed at June, you ought to consider
>> switching the
>> annual month to January or February.
>>
>>
>
>
> choice 1. We drag it out for 13 mos. Last year's annual went in April 1
> and we got it back May 5th. This year I brought it in on May 30th, still
> counting. I'm not sure if it would help at this particular shop. The
> previous partners in this plane have always complained about long
> annuals. I think it is a function of the shop and not so much the time
> of year.
>
> KC
Kevin, change shops. I work on one aircraft at a time, first scheduled,
first served. A PA28 shouldn't take more than 4 days unless there is
something that requires repair or parts. For that, add another 2 days.

Rip

[Dave[_1_]]

Warrior, 151, 1976.

We pay VERY close attention to the aircraft, and fix whatever is
needed as we go along. We never "wait" until the annual inspection.

......so we are seldom (so far) suprised at the annual.

We "owner assist"..

We removed all seats, carpets, panels, access plates on Wednesday, AME
inspected on Thursday, replaced brake pads on left main at our
request.

We screwed the plane back together on Thursday evening, signed off
Friday AM..

ready to go.........

Dave


On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:56:47 GMT, Kevin Clarke >
wrote:

>Fellow R.A.O folks,
>
>I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
>am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
>wks last year...
>
>thanks,
>KC

[Dave[_5_]]

Late Spring/early Summer is definitely a bad time to have your plane
laid up. Ideally, an Annual should be only a few days. However, if
something has to be pulled and sent off for repair it can stretch into
months. Years ago now, but an AD required that my prop blades be shot
peened for stress relief. Only two places in the world did that - one
in Canada, and the other in Germany. It took awhile...
Depending on the weather where you live, late fall is a good choice.
My last was in November/December. Fortunately, the weather cooperated.

David Johnson

[Blanche]

Bob Noel > wrote:
> Kevin Clarke > wrote:
>
>> How long does your annual take?
>
>A few days. The quickest was 24 hours. The longest annual
>is not something I want to think about...
>
>This is for a cherokee 140.

Ah, remember. There's an annual inspection. *Then* there's all
the work you want done, and all the work needed to fix the
things that the inspection found.

An inspection shouldn't take more than a few days, depending on
how busy the IA is. All the other work, well, that's another
story entirely.....

[Bob Noel]

In article >, Blanche >
wrote:

> >A few days. The quickest was 24 hours. The longest annual
> >is not something I want to think about...
> >
> >This is for a cherokee 140.
>
> Ah, remember. There's an annual inspection. *Then* there's all
> the work you want done, and all the work needed to fix the
> things that the inspection found.
>
> An inspection shouldn't take more than a few days, depending on
> how busy the IA is. All the other work, well, that's another
> story entirely.....

In my example above, the 24 hour annual included inspection, normal service,
and the replacement of a cracked muffler shroud (including shipping). Brought
it in at 5pm on Friday. Taxi'd it back to my hangar by 5pm Saturday.

My worst case was 9 months for a (*@&#$ IA to just do the inspection. That was
my only annual inspection that was not owner-assisted.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:56:47 GMT, Kevin Clarke >
wrote:

>Fellow R.A.O folks,
>
>I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
>am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
>wks last year...

1 to 2 days on a high performance, complex, retract, and they are
thourough.

One year they had to replace the starboard exhaust system, both
silencers, AND the nose gear strut. That took about a week.

>
>thanks,
>KC

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:20:47 -0400, "Peter R." >
wrote:

>On 6/14/2007 5:56:49 PM, Kevin Clarke wrote:
>
>> I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
>> am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
>> wks last year...
>
>Do you do that thirteen month thing (bring it in on the last week of the 12th
>month and have it signed off on the first week of the new month) or are you
>fixed to June annuals?

Aren't they supposed to list the "start date" for the annual, not when
they finish. Seems like there was a big ruckus over this a while back.
>
>I ask because if you are fixed at June, you ought to consider switching the
>annual month to January or February.

[Peter R.]

On 6/17/2007 12:44:21 PM, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:

> Aren't they supposed to list the "start date" for the annual, not when
> they finish. Seems like there was a big ruckus over this a while back.

That wouldn't make sense, especially for those one or two month annuals.

--
Peter

[Paul kgyy]

Mine usually takes a week for the inspection report, then anywhere
from another week to (this year) 2 months for the repairs. I brought
it in Jan 12 and picked it up April 1. The bill was proportionate to
the time it took, too.

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:42:42 -0400, "Peter R." >
wrote:

>On 6/17/2007 12:44:21 PM, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:
>
>> Aren't they supposed to list the "start date" for the annual, not when
>> they finish. Seems like there was a big ruckus over this a while back.
>
>That wouldn't make sense, especially for those one or two month annuals.

Those two month and longer annuals were the reasoning they used. They
wanted the date from the oldest work, not the most recent. IOW, if a
lot of engine work were done on day one and two months later it was
signed off they wanted to date to go back to the engine work, or first
work done in the annual. Rephrashed, they didn't want an annual where
the oldest work would be more than a year old at the next annual.

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Kevin Clarke wrote:
>Fellow R.A.O folks,
>
>I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
>am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
>wks last year...
>
Mine just went in for annual today. They're also installing a new ELT at
the same time. I expect the whole process (inspection, repairs) will be
finished by friday. I take my plane to a well-equipped, well-staffed shop
and it usually ends up costing quite a bit, but I do get my plane back fairly
quickly. A couple of years ago I had a trip coming up, and they were able to
get my plane back to me in a day and a half (one IA and 3 A&Ps working on it
at the same time).. I suppose it helps that the same shop has been doing all
of my maintenance for the past 17 yrs. :-)

Generally, anything that looks like it might fail within the next year gets
fixed. This usually results in a big labor bill because of all the time
consuming little jobs that have to be done. The bright side is that I rarely
have to take my plane into the shop for repairs until the next annual.
Right now I know two owners who have passed the 7 week mark on their annuals
and associated repairs. They're paying substantially less by using a one-
man outfit, but they're also competing with numerous other owners for that
guy's time. It's worth the extra money for me not to have my plane down for
two months.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:01:21 -0400, "Roger (K8RI)"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:42:42 -0400, "Peter R." >
>wrote:
>
>>On 6/17/2007 12:44:21 PM, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:
>>
>>> Aren't they supposed to list the "start date" for the annual, not when
>>> they finish. Seems like there was a big ruckus over this a while back.
>>
>>That wouldn't make sense, especially for those one or two month annuals.
>
>Those two month and longer annuals were the reasoning they used. They
>wanted the date from the oldest work, not the most recent. IOW, if a
>lot of engine work were done on day one and two months later it was
>signed off they wanted to date to go back to the engine work, or first
>work done in the annual. Rephrashed, they didn't want an annual where
>the oldest work would be more than a year old at the next annual.

I did some up-to-date "checking" and it turns out to be one of those
"IT all depends" on who you draw from the FAA and if you are a
mechanic. Several mechanics in the area were told (a while back) in
no uncertain terms they were to use the start date, BUT if it turns
out to be one of those long annuals AND it's their butt on the line
where they put their signature AND the annual is after all, *just* an
inspection all they'd have to do is look over the earlier stuff and
sign off which makes the conclusion of those inspectors a bit strange.
Officially where the pilot/owner is concerned the only thing the FAA
*normally* has to go by is the date of the mechanics sign off.

As to the length of the annual, there is no real excuse for the
inspection to take more than a day or two. There was a Cherokee 6 on
the field that had some major structural work (position light on top
of the tail hit the over head when being pushed back into a hangar,
folding the empennage) and that only took a couple of weeks part time.
A similar project on a Cherokee 180 only took a couple of days
including paint.

The only real reasons that I can think of for long annuals are long
delivery items that had to be ordered and poor scheduling/organization
at the FBO's.

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:41:09 -0400, "Roger (K8RI)"
> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:56:47 GMT, Kevin Clarke >
>wrote:
>
>>Fellow R.A.O folks,
>>
>>I hate this time of year, annual time. The reason I hate it is because I
>>am 2 wks in now and counting. How long does your annual take? It was 5
>>wks last year...
>
>1 to 2 days on a high performance, complex, retract, and they are
>thourough.
>
>One year they had to replace the starboard exhaust system, both
>silencers, AND the nose gear strut.

Forgot:
AND one of the bladder tanks had to be sent in for a rebuild.

>That took about a week.

That was my most expensive annual.
Over all I think they've averaged a bit over $1000 including required
repairs with a low of about $480 to a high a bit over $8,000. (nose
gear struts for a Bo are expensive)


>
>>
>>thanks,
>>KC