air conditioning- nice, required, or silly?

[[email protected]]

Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
flying in Northeast.


Thanks for your opinion.

Andy

[john smith]

wrote:
> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
> to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
> flying in Northeast.

How much horsepower are you willing to sacrifice to stay cool on a hot
day when your piston engine is lacking 100% of its rated performance?

[The Visitor]

I have it and it is fantastic to have. It does weigh 70 pounds in the
Seneca. But it spits snow and makes the ride very very nice. Off for
take off and landing(incase of overshoot), single engine operation and I
think the book said expect a 2% power loss, but I don't notice any
really. I have never really regretted having it. Full fuel I can still
put in 750 pounds. The water drain for it is in out the tail cone and
often people mistake it for a fuel leak on the ramp. I suppose it would
be possible because the janitrol heater is in the tail also. But they
don't know that, they just see a puddle and are a bit alarmed.

I would have it again.

If you don't really need the usefull load, go for it!

John

wrote:
> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
> to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
> flying in Northeast.
>
>
> Thanks for your opinion.
>
> Andy
>

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
> to have?

VERY nice to have, especially if you use your aircraft for business.

> Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
> flying in Northeast.

For the northeast, definitely. 80% of our travel is in the mid-west, from
the Dakota's all the way to central Texas.

Our A/C unit is right at 40 lbs and is certified for operation in all phases
of flight. It puts out 23,000BTU of cooling and with a sun shade, drops the
cabin from over 100F to 75 in about 10 minutes. With Aux power, we can have
it on without the engine running, while we configure the nav systems.

Also, it has climate control, so the cabin is 75F when it's 105 outside, and
it will hold that all the way to altitude where it may be sub-zero.

Get it...enjoy it; you won't regret it.
--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

[John Kunkel]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
> to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
> flying in Northeast.

I had A/C in my Piper Arrow II and loved it. All of my flying buddies ragged
me for being a "pussy" but each of them changed their minds when noting how
nice it is to taxi in comfort after a heat soak in the sun (instead of
holding a door open against the prop blast) or a summer inversion layer
where it's hotter at 4500 feet than on the 90°F ground temps.

I've heard all the arguments, added weight, reduced horsepower, etc but you
have to know your mission, the weight/performance penalties aren't for
everyone.

[Mark Hansen]

On 07/07/07 08:11, john smith wrote:
> wrote:
>> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
>> to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
>> flying in Northeast.
>
> How much horsepower are you willing to sacrifice to stay cool on a hot
> day when your piston engine is lacking 100% of its rated performance?

If you're lacking 100%, doesn't that leave you with none?

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
john smith > wrote:

> How much horsepower are you willing to sacrifice to stay cool on a hot
> day when your piston engine is lacking 100% of its rated performance?

Normally, the AC is off during take-off and landing. So, the loss of horsepower
is usually not an issue.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Bob Noel]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
> to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
> flying in Northeast.

depends on the airplane. In my cherokee 140, it was 70 pounds of
useless weight. Originally, my 140 was a Texas airplane, so the AC
was much more useful. But in the northeast, if it's hot enough that
the AC is really really nice, then it's too hot for decent take-off
performance for my 140.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Mike Noel]

In the PA28-180 airplanes the air conditioner is famous for reducing the
useful load and helping to throw the alternator belt. I live in Arizona and
find a $20 vent scoop and a trailed open door to be good enough for my
comfort zone.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

It is not work that kills men; it is worry. Worry is rust upon the blade.
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
> to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
> flying in Northeast.
>
>
> Thanks for your opinion.
>
> Andy
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
> to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
> flying in Northeast.

Never had it, never missed it.

Unlike a car, you've got a built-in fan up front, with doors and
windows that open. And, of course, you're only on the ground long
enough to taxi out to the runway. Within minutes, you'll be up where
it's nice and cool.

I guess if Atlas (our Piper 235) had it, I'd probably use it (he's got
useful load to burn) -- but I wouldn't bother installing it. And if
I had a plane that was "payload-challenged" I'd probably remove it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[B A R R Y]

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 07:48:54 -0700, wrote:

>Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
>to have? Silly accessory?

I'd like it if I had it.

Had it in one rental, wish I had it in the owned plane. I live in CT
and my usual trips are New England, the Cape and Islands, NY, NJ, and
PA, with the occasion trip to FL and TX.

It's GREAT on a long ground hold or taxiing at large airports.

You can always turn it off. <G>

[john smith]

Followup question for those of you who have one installed:
What are the associated maintenance and repair costs for the A/C and its
related components?

The Turbo-arrow IV I fly had A/C originally installed, but it was
removed more than 10 years ago.)

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
john smith > wrote:

> Followup question for those of you who have one installed:
> What are the associated maintenance and repair costs for the A/C and its
> related components?

I had one on my cherokee 140 (until I removed it). It was in-op (no freon)
and I didn't have a problem with the alternator belts breaking, so the
associated maintenance and repair costs were zero.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Thomas Borchert]

I think the power/useful load/cost trade-off doesn't make sense for
most situations, including NOrtheeastern summers and single-engine
pistons. Also, many of the planes that offer AC as an option can be and
are flown high, so heat isn't an issue for long anyway. But, as always,
it's a question of what your mission is.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

B,

> You can always turn it off. <G>
>

which doesn't reduce weight much, though.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[B A R R Y]

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:23:57 +0200, Thomas Borchert
> wrote:

>B,
>
>> You can always turn it off. <G>
>>
>
>which doesn't reduce weight much, though.

True.

[Mike Spera]

> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
> to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
> flying in Northeast.
>
>
> Thanks for your opinion.
>
> Andy
>
As others have stated, you cannot use if for takeoff. So, you use it on
the ground and then turn it on again in the climb. 4 minutes into the
climb, you are usually into cooler air anyway and shut it off.

Google A/C and see the persistent problems with these units.

They are R-12 systems in most planes. If you think it is expensive to
get a car charged with R-12, wait till you see what it will cost to get
an A&P to do it - if you can find one. Likely you will have to talk an
auto tech into bringing his equipment out to the airport for the A&P to
watch him charge the system. Then, you get to pay 2 folks for one
operation. R-134? Many techs will not do a conversion because they can
screw up some systems irreparably. Even though many have converted
Pipers, the local auto tech has no experience and likely will not want
to "experiment" with a very expensive airplane.

The hoses are now 20-30+ years old. They leaked like crazy when new and
have not gotten any better with age. If an auto tech charges the plane,
they will likely give you the speech about how they are required to
investigate why the system needed a charge and fix it. Or, they may
refuse to charge it at all UNTIL the leak is found and fixed.

As others have said, they rob you of 70 odd pounds in the Pipers. For a
140 that is 10% of its useful load and precludes any thoughts of a third
person.

The alternator belts and pulleys are the biggest pain. After 1000 hours,
the pulleys wear due to the high tension required on the skinny
alternator belt. Once worn, you can throw belts in as little as 2 hours.
Ironically, the compressor belt usually never breaks. Which would you
choose to go South unpredictably?

We removed ours and got back 43 pounds. We left the drop door and
condenser in because of the hassle of removing it. The cost to "convert"
back to stock can be staggering and the parts are NOT easy to identify
and find.

Opinions vary, but in many Midwest/Northern parts of the country, it is
not worth the hassle.

Good Luck,
Mike

[Matt Whiting]

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> I think the power/useful load/cost trade-off doesn't make sense for
> most situations, including NOrtheeastern summers and single-engine
> pistons. Also, many of the planes that offer AC as an option can be and
> are flown high, so heat isn't an issue for long anyway. But, as always,
> it's a question of what your mission is.

The problem is that many northeast airports are very busy and have long
taxi times. I've spent 30 minutes on the taxiway at Philly, Washington
National (pre 9/11 obviously), and Boston. On a 95 F day, this is
extremely unpleasant, even with the windows open (one nice 182 advantage).


Matt

[B A R R Y]

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 13:10:44 GMT, Matt Whiting >
wrote:
>
>The problem is that many northeast airports are very busy and have long
>taxi times. I've spent 30 minutes on the taxiway at Philly, Washington
>National (pre 9/11 obviously), and Boston. On a 95 F day, this is
>extremely unpleasant, even with the windows open (one nice 182 advantage).

Philly, Wash, Boston? No need to go there!

I've spent 30 minutes on the ground at Martha's Vineyard, New Bedford,
and Danbury.

[150flivver]

On Jul 8, 6:41 am, Mike Spera > wrote:
> They are R-12 systems in most planes...R-134? Many techs will not do a conversion because they can
> screw up some systems irreparably. Even though many have converted
> Pipers, the local auto tech has no experience and likely will not want
> to "experiment" with a very expensive airplane...
> Mike

I can't imagine that converting an R-12 system to R-134 wouldn't
require an STC.

[[email protected]]

Yeah the TO delays are a problem-trapped in a swealtering cockpit is
no fun.

Thanks for all the opinions.

Andy

[Mike Spera]

150flivver wrote:
> On Jul 8, 6:41 am, Mike Spera > wrote:
>
>>They are R-12 systems in most planes...R-134? Many techs will not do a conversion because they can
>>screw up some systems irreparably. Even though many have converted
>>Pipers, the local auto tech has no experience and likely will not want
>>to "experiment" with a very expensive airplane...
>
> > Mike
>
> I can't imagine that converting an R-12 system to R-134 wouldn't
> require an STC.
>
I was not heading in that direction. My thought was that some R-12
systems contained some funky oil that turned to glue when R-134 oil hit
it. Hence, some auto guys will not do a "conversion" and risk getting
into a huge beef if the system gets all gummed up.

I would imagine that those same auto wrenches would also balk at going
to the local airport to "try out" converting a Piper from 12 to 134.

I would never suggest that a conversion would require and STC. But, some
FAA critter might.

Good Luck,
Mike

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 13:10:44 GMT, Matt Whiting >
> wrote:
>>
>>The problem is that many northeast airports are very busy and have long
>>taxi times. I've spent 30 minutes on the taxiway at Philly, Washington
>>National (pre 9/11 obviously), and Boston. On a 95 F day, this is
>>extremely unpleasant, even with the windows open (one nice 182 advantage).
>
> Philly, Wash, Boston? No need to go there!
>
> I've spent 30 minutes on the ground at Martha's Vineyard, New Bedford,
> and Danbury.

Try 20 minutes waiting on the ground in Altus, OK :~(

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Yeah the TO delays are a problem-trapped in a swealtering cockpit is
> no fun.
>
> Thanks for all the opinions.

What kind of airplane are you looking to put A/C in? (Cher 260?)

New, or retro-fit?

Even if you need it, your equipment _might_ not be able to handle it.

[Matt Whiting]

B A R R Y wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 13:10:44 GMT, Matt Whiting >
> wrote:
>> The problem is that many northeast airports are very busy and have long
>> taxi times. I've spent 30 minutes on the taxiway at Philly, Washington
>> National (pre 9/11 obviously), and Boston. On a 95 F day, this is
>> extremely unpleasant, even with the windows open (one nice 182 advantage).
>
> Philly, Wash, Boston? No need to go there!
>
> I've spent 30 minutes on the ground at Martha's Vineyard, New Bedford,
> and Danbury.

Probably waiting on a slot from ZBW! :-)

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Matt Barrow wrote:
> "B A R R Y" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 13:10:44 GMT, Matt Whiting >
>> wrote:
>>> The problem is that many northeast airports are very busy and have long
>>> taxi times. I've spent 30 minutes on the taxiway at Philly, Washington
>>> National (pre 9/11 obviously), and Boston. On a 95 F day, this is
>>> extremely unpleasant, even with the windows open (one nice 182 advantage).
>> Philly, Wash, Boston? No need to go there!
>>
>> I've spent 30 minutes on the ground at Martha's Vineyard, New Bedford,
>> and Danbury.
>
> Try 20 minutes waiting on the ground in Altus, OK :~(
>
>

I'm sure that is no fun. The worst I had was about 20 minutes at
Detroit several years ago in the midst of one of their worst heat waves
ever. It was 102 according to the radio station, but on the ramp my OAT
was nearly pegged. And it was humid to boot. It wasn't even all that
cool at 7,000 on the way home! I'd have given up a lot of useful load
for AC that day...

Matt

[[email protected]]

> What kind of airplane are you looking to put A/C in? (Cher 260?)



Looking for a 'new' plane and figuring options (C310 with Keith AC,
baron, saratoga, others)

Dale

[The Visitor]

What would be good to hear is how the A/C peroforms in different
aircraft. My seneca, very good. Baron, I heard good things about. I can
ask a friend about his saratoga. If the usefull load is still acceptable
to you, go for it. And if you need work on it, and can't find a shop,
let me know, I'll give you a pointer. Man is it nice.

John

wrote:
>>What kind of airplane are you looking to put A/C in? (Cher 260?)
>
>
>
>
> Looking for a 'new' plane and figuring options (C310 with Keith AC,
> baron, saratoga, others)
>
> Dale
>

[The Visitor]

I don't know if it is an stc thing, but there are conversions available.
It has always been far cheaper to stick with r12 in my seneca. I seem
to remembe being told is was about 6k to convert.

John




150flivver wrote:

> On Jul 8, 6:41 am, Mike Spera > wrote:
>
>>They are R-12 systems in most planes...R-134? Many techs will not do a conversion because they can
>>screw up some systems irreparably. Even though many have converted
>>Pipers, the local auto tech has no experience and likely will not want
>>to "experiment" with a very expensive airplane...
>
> > Mike
>
> I can't imagine that converting an R-12 system to R-134 wouldn't
> require an STC.
>

[Viperdoc[_3_]]

How much does aftermarket AC cost? The best price I've seen for a Baron was
around $25,000 installed!


"The Visitor" > wrote in message
...
>I don't know if it is an stc thing, but there are conversions available. It
>has always been far cheaper to stick with r12 in my seneca. I seem to
>remembe being told is was about 6k to convert.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> 150flivver wrote:
>
>> On Jul 8, 6:41 am, Mike Spera > wrote:
>>
>>>They are R-12 systems in most planes...R-134? Many techs will not do a
>>>conversion because they can
>>>screw up some systems irreparably. Even though many have converted
>>>Pipers, the local auto tech has no experience and likely will not want
>>>to "experiment" with a very expensive airplane...
>>
>> > Mike
>>
>> I can't imagine that converting an R-12 system to R-134 wouldn't
>> require an STC.
>>
>

[The Visitor]

Viperdoc wrote:
> How much does aftermarket AC cost? The best price I've seen for a Baron was
> around $25,000 installed!

You had better want it bad for 25k!

I have not heard of any aftermarket prices.
Mine was factory.
And if I were to buy again, I would pay 25k extra for the option.

John

[Dave[_16_]]

The Visitor wrote:
>
>
> Viperdoc wrote:
>> How much does aftermarket AC cost? The best price I've seen for a
>> Baron was around $25,000 installed!
>
> You had better want it bad for 25k!
>
> I have not heard of any aftermarket prices.
> Mine was factory.
> And if I were to buy again, I would pay 25k extra for the option.
>
> John
>
Has anybody talked about the electric seat coolers here yet?
It can be a good option to keeping cooler during those hot days.

Dave

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Dave wrote:
> The Visitor wrote:
>>
>>
>> Viperdoc wrote:
>>> How much does aftermarket AC cost? The best price I've seen for a
>>> Baron was around $25,000 installed!
>>
>> You had better want it bad for 25k!
>>
>> I have not heard of any aftermarket prices.
>> Mine was factory.
>> And if I were to buy again, I would pay 25k extra for the option.
>>
>> John
>>
> Has anybody talked about the electric seat coolers here yet?
> It can be a good option to keeping cooler during those hot days.
>
> Dave

Got a link? I've never heard of them.

[Rob]

On Jul 7, 7:48 am, wrote:
> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
> to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
> flying in Northeast.
>
> Thanks for your opinion.
>
> Andy

There are no built-in A/C options available for my Grumman AA5B, but
I've been thinking about trying something like this:

http://www.sportys.com/press/displaypress.cfm?id=325

Anybody get one of these yet? I'm out of Phoenix. It's hot here.
Really. hot.

-R

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Rob wrote:
> On Jul 7, 7:48 am, wrote:
>> Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
>> to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
>> flying in Northeast.
>>
>> Thanks for your opinion.
>>
>> Andy
>
> There are no built-in A/C options available for my Grumman AA5B, but
> I've been thinking about trying something like this:
>
> http://www.sportys.com/press/displaypress.cfm?id=325
>
> Anybody get one of these yet? I'm out of Phoenix. It's hot here.
> Really. hot.
>
> -R


I can't give up 50 lbs.

Powered by cigarette lighter plug and pulls approximately 5 amps. Available
in 12 and 24 volt models. Weighs approximately 10 lbs. empty and around 50
lbs.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jul 7, 8:11 am, john smith > wrote:
> wrote:
> > Anybody have any experience with air conditioning in their plane-Nice
> > to have? Silly accessory? Don't leave home without it? 80% Summer
> > flying in Northeast.
>
> How much horsepower are you willing to sacrifice to stay cool on a hot
> day when your piston engine is lacking 100% of its rated performance?

The AC is really only used on the ground to cool the plane when its
been sitting in the 110F sun. One airbourne the AC serves not purpose.

-Robert

[The Visitor]

That looks really neat.
If you can make your ice real real cold.
If I didn't have air, I would at least try it.
Hopefully somebody with some experience with it, will speak up.






Rob wrote:

> There are no built-in A/C options available for my Grumman AA5B, but
> I've been thinking about trying something like this:
>
> http://www.sportys.com/press/displaypress.cfm?id=325
>
> Anybody get one of these yet? I'm out of Phoenix. It's hot here.
> Really. hot.
>
> -R
>

[David Lesher]

"Robert M. Gary" > writes:


>The AC is really only used on the ground to cool the plane when its
>been sitting in the 110F sun. One airbourne the AC serves not purpose.


I have this picture in my head. At the end of the taxiway; there's a open
carport type shade struture. You pull under it & a cold-air hose drops
down, just like at a drive-in movie. You open the door and fish it in. A
large PA speaker has the tower freq so you don't even need the avionics
running to know when to restart....



--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Blueskies]

"The Visitor" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Viperdoc wrote:
>> How much does aftermarket AC cost? The best price I've seen for a Baron was around $25,000 installed!
>
> You had better want it bad for 25k!
>
> I have not heard of any aftermarket prices.
> Mine was factory.
> And if I were to buy again, I would pay 25k extra for the option.
>
> John
>

That is how much the 172 costs...

[Thomas Borchert]

Rob,

> but
> I've been thinking about trying something like this:
>
> http://www.sportys.com/press/displaypress.cfm?id=325
>

Aviation Consumer had a review on these in one of the recent issues.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> Rob,
>
>> but
>> I've been thinking about trying something like this:
>>
>> http://www.sportys.com/press/displaypress.cfm?id=325
>>
>
> Aviation Consumer had a review on these in one of the recent issues.

I showed the AC article on the AC to my wife and the thought it was a great
idea until I explained how many fewer shoes she would be able to take on
vacation if we had that in the plane.

[Dave[_16_]]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> Dave wrote:
>> The Visitor wrote:
>>>
>>> Viperdoc wrote:
>>>> How much does aftermarket AC cost? The best price I've seen for a
>>>> Baron was around $25,000 installed!
>>> You had better want it bad for 25k!
>>>
>>> I have not heard of any aftermarket prices.
>>> Mine was factory.
>>> And if I were to buy again, I would pay 25k extra for the option.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>> Has anybody talked about the electric seat coolers here yet?
>> It can be a good option to keeping cooler during those hot days.
>>
>> Dave
>
> Got a link? I've never heard of them.
>
>

http://www.activeforever.com/ps-1641-2-cool-or-heat-seat-cushion.aspx
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/smarthome-seat-cooler-blessed-summertime-relief-190908.php

[Peter Clark]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:14:35 GMT, Dave > wrote:

>Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>> Dave wrote:
>>> The Visitor wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Viperdoc wrote:
>>>>> How much does aftermarket AC cost? The best price I've seen for a
>>>>> Baron was around $25,000 installed!
>>>> You had better want it bad for 25k!
>>>>
>>>> I have not heard of any aftermarket prices.
>>>> Mine was factory.
>>>> And if I were to buy again, I would pay 25k extra for the option.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>> Has anybody talked about the electric seat coolers here yet?
>>> It can be a good option to keeping cooler during those hot days.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> Got a link? I've never heard of them.
>>
>>
>
>http://www.activeforever.com/ps-1641-2-cool-or-heat-seat-cushion.aspx
>http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/smarthome-seat-cooler-blessed-summertime-relief-190908.php

Am I right in the math that the first one only draws 3 amps (30 watts
divided by 12 volts)?

[Vaughn Simon]

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
> Looking at the various cars I have owned and how the aircon on them
> worked (or, more frequently, didn't work) I don't think there is much
> chance of aircon on GA being reliable. Most GA stuff is the cheap and
> old (1950s) end of the motor vehicle parts market. The only car I have
> ever owned with a reliable aircon is a Toyota/Lexus Soarer (US SC300
> is the equivalent) on which everything is built like a tank. The
> refrigerant tends to leak out within a year, the compressors get
> cracks and leak... One car, a Toyota Celica, which I owned for 15
> years, had its aircon working for maybe 1 year out of the 15. And
> Toyotas are the best of the lot normally. I've never had anything go
> wrong on a Toyota, except the aircon.

Here in Florida (where virtually all cars have AC) it is a general rule of
thumb that the AC will cost as much to maintain as the entire rest of the car.
It is well worth it!

The real heat of the summer is not yet here, but I went up yesterday for
some pattern work. I sweated so much that I was still damp an hour later. AC
in a light airplane would be really nice.

Vaughn

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Dave" > wrote in message
et...
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>> Dave wrote:
>>> The Visitor wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Viperdoc wrote:
>>>>> How much does aftermarket AC cost? The best price I've seen for a
>>>>> Baron was around $25,000 installed!
>>>> You had better want it bad for 25k!
>>>>
>>>> I have not heard of any aftermarket prices.
>>>> Mine was factory.
>>>> And if I were to buy again, I would pay 25k extra for the option.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>> Has anybody talked about the electric seat coolers here yet?
>>> It can be a good option to keeping cooler during those hot days.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> Got a link? I've never heard of them.
>
> http://www.activeforever.com/ps-1641-2-cool-or-heat-seat-cushion.aspx
> http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/smarthome-seat-cooler-blessed-summertime-relief-190908.php
>

Wouldn't that result in a woman being "frigid"?

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Looking at the various cars I have owned and how the aircon on them
>> worked (or, more frequently, didn't work) I don't think there is much
>> chance of aircon on GA being reliable. Most GA stuff is the cheap and
>> old (1950s) end of the motor vehicle parts market. The only car I have
>> ever owned with a reliable aircon is a Toyota/Lexus Soarer (US SC300
>> is the equivalent) on which everything is built like a tank. The
>> refrigerant tends to leak out within a year, the compressors get
>> cracks and leak... One car, a Toyota Celica, which I owned for 15
>> years, had its aircon working for maybe 1 year out of the 15. And
>> Toyotas are the best of the lot normally. I've never had anything go
>> wrong on a Toyota, except the aircon.
>
> Here in Florida (where virtually all cars have AC) it is a general
> rule of thumb that the AC will cost as much to maintain as the entire rest
> of the car. It is well worth it!

Odd! I've had cars with A/C for the past 30 years and never had any A/C
maintenance other than recharging them. Even that last time was several
years ago.

>
> The real heat of the summer is not yet here, but I went up yesterday
> for some pattern work. I sweated so much that I was still damp an hour
> later. AC in a light airplane would be really nice.

Sure is!!!

I got my first airborne A/C this past Febriary; let's see if it holds up as
well as the automotive ones have.

Matt B.

--
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become
dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest
authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
-- Omar Ahmad, Chairman Emeritus, Council on American-Islamic Relations
(CAIR).

[Marco Leon]

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
>
> Looking at the various cars I have owned and how the aircon on them
> worked (or, more frequently, didn't work) I don't think there is much
> chance of aircon on GA being reliable. Most GA stuff is the cheap and
> old (1950s) end of the motor vehicle parts market.

[snip]

"Aircon?" Are Filipino?

:)

Marco

[cwby-flyer]

On Jul 9, 3:26 pm, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>
> The AC is really only used on the ground to cool the plane when its
> been sitting in the 110F sun. One airbourne the AC serves not purpose.
>
> -Robert

Not sure where you're at, but around here GA is stuck at or below 3500
due the DFW Class B - and in the summertime we need to be at 8000 or
better to escape the heat.

Mike