Re: What are Those Black Helicopters?

[John C. Baker]

In article >,
"John A. Weeks III" > wrote:

> > Finally, if they are not military, then what agency operates them
> > under what authority?
> >
> > <snip>
>
> ... it is very unlikely that what your parents saw was anything but
> a ANG exercise. These kind of things happen all the time.

If not for the Cobra reportedly seen, I might also hazzard a guess that
it could be DEA, which has some Black Hawks in its stock.

[Kevin Brooks]

"John A. Weeks III" > wrote in message >...
> In article >, Betsy
> Chiffon > wrote:
>
> > My parents back in Sioux City say that a few weeks ago their farm was
> > overflown by some sort of low flying, fast moving object that shook
> > the property and disturbed the cattle.
> >
> > Naturally, alarm & curiosity got the better of my dad and he went out
> > to see what all the trouble was. What he saw scared the living
> > daylights out of him.
> >
> > Coming in low and fast were a group of black helicopters. Two of them
> > continued on following the unseen object that had passed earlier, but
> > two others circled the farm and shined bright lights down on our
> > property. Not just ordinary white lights but red and green ones too.
> > They loitered for several minutes before heading off into the
> > distance.
>
> More than likely, this was a Army National Guard exercise. The
> unseen craft was likely a troop carrier or MC variant of the
> C-130. They likely were practicing inserting a small recon team.
> The Blackhawks were there to support the perimiter, and the Cobra
> for any additional firepower that might be needed. It might have
> been that the team jumped from the lead aircraft, and was going
> to be picked up by the Blackhawks.

No more Cobras in ARNG service, IIRC.

>
> The colored lights were to give back-ground lighting for the
> pick-up zone. They don't use white light because it is too
> easy to see, and it ruins the night vision of everyone involved.
> Green lights up the area for the night vision equipped people,
> while red is good background light for those who do not have
> night vision equipment, but still must see in the dark.

Huh? Never saw green/red lights used from a helo during night LZ
operations (usually IR chemlights or strobes are the preferred
method). I believe the only red/green lights on such aircraft would be
collision lights.

>
> > My dad was shaken and called the local police but was told that no
> > reports of unusual activity had been called in.
> >
> > My dad was furious. Having served in the US Army he said that the
> > helicopters appeared to be military. Probably 3 unmarked Blackhawks
> > escorted by one unmarked Cobra.
> >
> > He called around for 3 days then gave up. He was told there were no
> > military activities on the night in question.
>
> If this was homeland security related, you likely would not be
> able to find out anything about it. Even routine ANG operations
> are normally not discussed. It is, however, a bit unusual that
> they were operating outside of thier normal range areas. Perhaps
> they contacted the landowers in advance to get permission.

Au contaire. When operating in civil territory, the military has
learned the hard way that forewarning is generally advisable (even the
SFOD Delta types now do this, since SOCOM was a bit taken aback when
locals got very upset during the periodic urban assault operations
they were conducting in various cities--plenty of press on it at the
time). Every time we ever conducted operations in civil areas we were
quite careful to try and publicize ahead of time--even such mundane
activity as a dismounted tactical roadmarch through a rather rural
area of my homestate garnered some frenzied activity by certain locals
who were afraid we might be on the search for their "cash crop"...

>
> > What unit is this? Why are their helicopters not marked? Are they
> > based in Iowa?
>
> This was most likely an Army National Guard unit, most likely
> based in your home state. As far as I know, every state has
> at least a few Blackhawks assigned to their ANG units. Check
> around at local airports, and look for a building that has a
> sign that says "Aviation Support Facility". That is normally
> what the ANG chopper bases are called.
>
> These birds almost certainly had national insignia on them. The
> chopper itself is black, and the paint on the insignia is light
> grey. It is hard to see even in the daylight, let along at
> night and at a distance.

Only the USMC is still operating the Cobra here in the states, IIRC
(though I do recall that one or two might have been handed over to the
USFS for fire observation duties?).

Brooks

<snip>

[John A. Weeks III]

In article >, Kevin
Brooks > wrote:

> Only the USMC is still operating the Cobra here in the states, IIRC
> (though I do recall that one or two might have been handed over to the
> USFS for fire observation duties?).

Not true. The Minnesota National Guard, 3rd Battalion, 147th
Aviation Regiment, based at the St Paul airport, has 24 AH-1F
Cobras in their inventory. They fly regularly. They do have
plans to covert to the Apache, as the US Army plans to phase
out the Cobra by the end of 2004.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

[Daryl Hunt]

"Betsy Chiffon" > wrote in message
om...
> My parents back in Sioux City say that a few weeks ago their farm was
> overflown by some sort of low flying, fast moving object that shook
> the property and disturbed the cattle.
>
> Naturally, alarm & curiosity got the better of my dad and he went out
> to see what all the trouble was. What he saw scared the living
> daylights out of him.
>
> Coming in low and fast were a group of black helicopters. Two of them
> continued on following the unseen object that had passed earlier, but
> two others circled the farm and shined bright lights down on our
> property. Not just ordinary white lights but red and green ones too.
> They loitered for several minutes before heading off into the
> distance.
>
> My dad was shaken and called the local police but was told that no
> reports of unusual activity had been called in.
>
> My dad was furious. Having served in the US Army he said that the
> helicopters appeared to be military. Probably 3 unmarked Blackhawks
> escorted by one unmarked Cobra.
>
> He called around for 3 days then gave up. He was told there were no
> military activities on the night in question.
>
> What unit is this? Why are their helicopters not marked? Are they
> based in Iowa?
>
> Finally, if they are not military, then what agency operates them
> under what authority?
>
> Neighbors say they are operated by a joint US/Foreign Command tasked
> with fighting UFOs. But I don't believe that stuff. They were US
> helicopters and I don't think we allow foreign miltary people to fly
> our stuff. Right?
>
> I thought maybe you guys would know something more.
>
> Betsy

It was Aliens in search of Intellegent Life. They fly around and won't land
until they find it. They have many, many crashes:)

[Kevin Brooks]

"John A. Weeks III" > wrote in message >...
> In article >, Kevin
> Brooks > wrote:
>
> > Only the USMC is still operating the Cobra here in the states, IIRC
> > (though I do recall that one or two might have been handed over to the
> > USFS for fire observation duties?).
>
> Not true. The Minnesota National Guard, 3rd Battalion, 147th
> Aviation Regiment, based at the St Paul airport, has 24 AH-1F
> Cobras in their inventory. They fly regularly. They do have
> plans to covert to the Apache, as the US Army plans to phase
> out the Cobra by the end of 2004.

Still flying? Last I heard the ARNG was able to extend the Cobras'
lifetime, but not this far out:

"Develop a timeline for the retirement and divestment of AH-1 Cobras
and UH-1 Hueys, with divestment of the Cobras no later than 2001 and
the Hueys no later than 2004."

That was the tasking from the CSA back in Dec 2000
(www.ngaus.org/newsroom/cobradelay12400.asp ).

Brooks


>
> -john-

[patrick savoie]

According to the Canadian Dept of National Defense ... 89 Canadian pilots on
exchange in the US Forces, flying most types. ... comparable 87 US pilots
flying in Canadian Air Force

Right now there are 1 American, 1 French & 1 Netherland pilot on the base
where I work .. a CF-18 base.

I assume many other NATO & non-NATO pilots are exchange with each other's
Air Force.


Pat


"TJ" > a écrit dans le message de
...
>
> "Betsy Chiffon"
> <snipped for brevity>
> >They were US helicopters and I don't think we allow foreign miltary
people
> to fly
> > our stuff. Right?
> >
> > I thought maybe you guys would know something more.
> >
> > Betsy
>
> That would be news to all those foreign military aircrew who have
completed
> exchange tours with US units! For example RAF pilots flying the F-117. One
> Sqn Ldr flying the F-117 in combat over Yugoslavia in 1999. RAF pilots
> flying U-2s. Taiwanese pilots flying loaned U-2s, not to mention all the
> other foreign nationals trained under a CIA programme to fly the U-2.
>
> TJ
>
>