B-70 Paint scheme

[TWINMAKER]

Here is a good "what if" question. If the B-70 had gone into widespread SAC
use in the 60s and beyond, what is the best guess as to how it would have been
painted for operational use? Black like the SR, white like the two XB models,
gray, etc? I doubt it would have had the SAC cammo scheme, since it would not
have done any low level flying.

W. Woodruff

[scrumpy]

(TWINMAKER) wrote in message >...
> Here is a good "what if" question. If the B-70 had gone into widespread SAC
> use in the 60s and beyond, what is the best guess as to how it would have been
> painted for operational use? Black like the SR, white like the two XB models,
> gray, etc? I doubt it would have had the SAC cammo scheme, since it would not
> have done any low level flying.
>
> W. Woodruff

If it had gone into service with it's original design mission of a
mach3 high altitude strategic bomber, then it would've still been
painted white. The reason why is that the white paint it used was a
special type called "Anti-flash white". To protect it from the thermal
pulse of a detonating B53 TN bomb(it was 9MT). You see, the USAFT
learned the high pacific atmospheric tests that such protection was
needed. In one test ,a B-36 had it airframe heated by over 3000
degrees fahrenheit, resulting in structural damage to it's tailplane.
In another test a B-52B (52-00013 I think-BUFFDRIVER would know more
about this) also thermally induced damaged to both it's airframe and
systems.

[B2431]

>
>The TBC (Toss Bomb Computer) settings for the weapon, airspeed,
>altitude, etc. included calculation for safe separation from the
>blast. When the aircraft were painted in camo for the SEA war, the
>entire nuclear delivery manual had to be re-calculated, because the
>dark paint absorbed the flash much more than the reflective bare
>metal. Greater safe separation distance was required.
>
>Frankly that scared the hell out of me. Hard to realize the whole
>business was calculated to such close tolerances.
>
>
> Ed Rasimus

How much more distance did you need with the camo paint scheme?

I remember watching F-4s heave practice bombs in Spain simulating nukes. I
assume the nukes simulated, this was in the late 70s, were a bit smaller that 1
MT, but even so the F-4 seemed to not be very far away at time of detonation.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[Scott Ferrin]

>You're right. It wasn't just the strategic aircraft either. When I
>entered training for the F-105, the airplanes were still polished bare
>metal. The nuclear weapon of choice was the B-28 or B-43, each of them
>rated at 1 MT. Deliveries were usually programmed for some sort of low
>altitude low-angle toss with a wing-over escape maneuver to run away
>at about 135 degrees from original run-in heading.
>
>The TBC (Toss Bomb Computer) settings for the weapon, airspeed,
>altitude, etc. included calculation for safe separation from the
>blast. When the aircraft were painted in camo for the SEA war, the
>entire nuclear delivery manual had to be re-calculated, because the
>dark paint absorbed the flash much more than the reflective bare
>metal. Greater safe separation distance was required.
>
>Frankly that scared the hell out of me. Hard to realize the whole
>business was calculated to such close tolerances.
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (ret)
> ***"When Thunder Rolled:
> *** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
> *** from Smithsonian Books
> ISBN: 1588341038



Seems like the RAF "V" bombers were all white and so was the B-1A.

[av8r]

Hi Scott

The RAF V-Bomber Force's high-level role changed in 1965 to a low level
one. The Valiants, Victors and Vulcans were subsequently camouflaged
from that point on. I was stationed at Goose Bay, Labrador when the
transition took place. You've never seen anything prettier than a
Vulcan flying at tree top-level. Especially when you are on a hill
looking down on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers...Chris

[Smartace11]

Always wondered what a camo B-58 might look like.

>The Valiants, Victors and Vulcans were subsequently camouflaged
>from that point on. I was stationed at Goose Bay, Labrador when the
>transition took place. You've never seen anything prettier than a
>Vulcan flying at tree top-level. Especially when you are on a hill
>looking down on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Cheers...Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Ed Rasimus]

(Smartace11) wrote:

>Always wondered what a camo B-58 might look like.
>
>>The Valiants, Victors and Vulcans were subsequently camouflaged
>>from that point on. I was stationed at Goose Bay, Labrador when the
>>transition took place. You've never seen anything prettier than a
>>Vulcan flying at tree top-level. Especially when you are on a hill
>>looking down on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>Cheers...Chris

Like a fast moving forest.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

[Gary Watson]

Tha Canadian CF104s that were tasked to the Nuclear Strike role in Germany
in the 1960s were bare aluminum except for the wings which were white.Teh
cockpit had a special aluminized /retractible canopy shield and the pilot
wore a gold-visored helmet.

Ed, I am curious about the Bomb Toss computer in your a/c. We had a simple
dual timer setup in the CF104. One clock was started at the run-in fix (or
whatever it was called) and when it annunciated, the pilot performed the
pitch-up/toss maneuver. At the appropriate time in this manuver the second
timer went to zero and released the bomb.
Seemed like a very simple (read cheap) system and I know the guys were often
putting the 2,000 lb cement shaped charge within 100 mtrs of the dead centre
on the range in Sardinia. Close enough with a nuke IMHO.Depending on the
mission profile, the clocks were set to the appropriate number of seconds.


Gary Watson ex RCAF


"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> (Smartace11) wrote:
>
> >Always wondered what a camo B-58 might look like.
> >
> >>The Valiants, Victors and Vulcans were subsequently camouflaged
> >>from that point on. I was stationed at Goose Bay, Labrador when the
> >>transition took place. You've never seen anything prettier than a
> >>Vulcan flying at tree top-level. Especially when you are on a hill
> >>looking down on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >>
> >>Cheers...Chris
>
> Like a fast moving forest.
>
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (ret)
> ***"When Thunder Rolled:
> *** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
> *** from Smithsonian Books
> ISBN: 1588341038

[Les Matheson]

Your Toss bombing computer sounds just like the one in the backseat of the
F-4 (it was built by my father while he was at GE). Quite interesting to
fly with something my dad built.

It worked well, so long as you had all the points plotted correctly and flew
the planned airspeeds, altitudes and the pull was done to the proper g-load
and onset rate.

I have also done toss bombing using only the hack clock in the back seat,
and gotten comparable scores. When you have to salvage a check ride you can
think of lots of tricks.

--
Les
F-4C(WW),D,E,G(WW)/AC-130A/MC-130E EWO (ret)


"Gary Watson" <cf104@ihate spam.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:dGw5b.591$J6.146@pd7tw3no...
> Tha Canadian CF104s that were tasked to the Nuclear Strike role in Germany
> in the 1960s were bare aluminum except for the wings which were white.Teh
> cockpit had a special aluminized /retractible canopy shield and the pilot
> wore a gold-visored helmet.
>
> Ed, I am curious about the Bomb Toss computer in your a/c. We had a simple
> dual timer setup in the CF104. One clock was started at the run-in fix (or
> whatever it was called) and when it annunciated, the pilot performed the
> pitch-up/toss maneuver. At the appropriate time in this manuver the second
> timer went to zero and released the bomb.
> Seemed like a very simple (read cheap) system and I know the guys were
often
> putting the 2,000 lb cement shaped charge within 100 mtrs of the dead
centre
> on the range in Sardinia. Close enough with a nuke IMHO.Depending on the
> mission profile, the clocks were set to the appropriate number of seconds.
>
>
> Gary Watson ex RCAF
>
>
> "Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
> ...
> > (Smartace11) wrote:
> >
> > >Always wondered what a camo B-58 might look like.
> > >
> > >>The Valiants, Victors and Vulcans were subsequently camouflaged
> > >>from that point on. I was stationed at Goose Bay, Labrador when the
> > >>transition took place. You've never seen anything prettier than a
> > >>Vulcan flying at tree top-level. Especially when you are on a hill
> > >>looking down on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >>
> > >>Cheers...Chris
> >
> > Like a fast moving forest.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ed Rasimus
> > Fighter Pilot (ret)
> > ***"When Thunder Rolled:
> > *** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
> > *** from Smithsonian Books
> > ISBN: 1588341038
>
>

[Ron]

>
>You're right. It wasn't just the strategic aircraft either. When I
>entered training for the F-105, the airplanes were still polished bare
>metal. The nuclear weapon of choice was the B-28 or B-43, each of them
>rated at 1 MT. Deliveries were usually programmed for some sort of low
>altitude low-angle toss with a wing-over escape maneuver to run away
>at about 135 degrees from original run-in heading.
>

One of my friends showed me a video of him in an F-16 dropping one of those
Special shapes, from an F-16 at Tonapah. Did a 40 degree loft, got the bomb
within 20 m.




Ron
Tucson AZ
C-421 air ambulance

[Ron]

>I remember watching F-4s heave practice bombs in Spain simulating nukes. I
>assume the nukes simulated, this was in the late 70s, were a bit smaller that
>1
>MT, but even so the F-4 seemed to not be very far away at time of detonation.
>

But just think how it would have been for one of those Navy Skyraiders, lofting
a nuke..


Ron
Tucson AZ
C-421 air ambulance

[Matt Wiser]

"Darrell" > wrote:
>Ron wrote:
>>> I remember watching F-4s heave practice bombs
>in Spain simulating
>>> nukes. I assume the nukes simulated, this
>was in the late 70s, were
>>> a bit smaller that 1
>>> MT, but even so the F-4 seemed to not be
>very far away at time of
>>> detonation.
>>>
>>
>> But just think how it would have been for
>one of those Navy
>> Skyraiders, lofting a nuke..
>>
>>
>> Ron
>> Tucson AZ
>> C-421 air ambulance
>
>I was Aircraft Commander in the B-47 shortly
>after they stopped "tossing"
>them since the wings were about to break off.
> When I flew the B-47 in
>1959-61, for a high altitude free fall release
>we had to do a combat
>breakaway maneuver after release to escape
>weapon effects. Later we began
>doing a "long look" which involved climbing
>from approach (treetop) level to
>about 15,000', simulating releasing the nuke
>which had a parachute on it,
>then diving down to low altitude again to escape.
> The chute was planned to
>give us time to escape the blast.
>
>Later on, they developed better chutes and we
>could then do a "short look"
>which involved climbing from treetop to around
>4,000', release, descend to
>treetop to get the hell out of there.
>
>In 1961-66 I was AC in the B-52H (brand new
>then) and we soon used the
>"laydown" technique, which involved releasing
>the weapon(s) at approach
>altitude. Multiple chutes would open and the
>weapon had a frangible nose
>cone to absorb ground impact. Then it would
>tick away to allow us to get
>clear before it detonated. (simulated only,
>of course).
>
>I went to the B-58 Hustler in late 66-70 and
>our primary delivery technique
>continued to be the "laydown" maneuver.
>
>--
>
>Darrell R. Schmidt

>B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
>
>
>
I can understand B-58s going in low with the SA-2 threat, but what about
in the early 1960s, when a SAM wasn't considered a threat? High alt dash
release?

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