Short list wanted - popular 4-seat single engine land

[Tuno]

New to powered flight. It's a jungle out there.

Seeking the short list of the most popular 4-seat single engine
aircraft made in the last ~20 years. What are the best options?

(Used, fixed gear.)

::tuno

[Vaughn Simon]

"Tuno" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Seeking the short list of the most popular 4-seat single engine
> aircraft made in the last ~20 years. What are the best options?

Define your typical mission.

Vaughn

[Tuno]

Transportation for family of four. Mostly VFR but some IFR. Rarely
more than 1000 miles one-way. Southwest USA.

[Howard Nelson]

"Tuno" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Transportation for family of four. Mostly VFR but some IFR. Rarely
> more than 1000 miles one-way. Southwest USA.
>

Easy choice

C182 or C182T

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_182

Aspirated C182 will limit your IFR in the West since MEA's are occasionally
over 12,000 and regardless of what might be published as a service ceiling
climb performance of a C182 fully loaded above 12,000 seems anemic. Any ice
collection is just plain frighting.

If your budget and skills allow then the ideal SEL fixed gear aircraft is my
all time favorite the C208. :)

Howard
C182P

[tony roberts]

To answer your question specifically -
The most popular is the Cessna 172.
But you may want to move up -
In any case the answer are all Cessna,
unless you want to debate the comparitively recently introduced Cirrus
line. But then you open up a whole new ball of wax!!!

Tony
C-GICE



--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

In article . com>,
Tuno > wrote:

> New to powered flight. It's a jungle out there.
>
> Seeking the short list of the most popular 4-seat single engine
> aircraft made in the last ~20 years. What are the best options?
>
> (Used, fixed gear.)
>
> ::tuno

[Thomas Borchert]

Tuno,

> Seeking the short list of the most popular 4-seat single engine
> aircraft made in the last ~20 years. What are the best options?
>

Since when does "popular" equal "best"?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Tuno,

Turbocharging is of interested to you, since the SW US is hot and high.
Do you want to go into dirtstrips, too? Short strips? How much does
speed (and thus travel time) matter? Why only fixed gear?

My ranking would be:

Cirrus SR 22 and SR20.
Socata TB-10 Tobago.
Diamond DA-40.
Grumman Tiger.
Piper PA-28 Archer.
For dirtstrips, the C182(T) is hard to beat, but the others will work
on most, if you know what you are doing.

Have a look at the Aviation Consumer USed Aircraft guide.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Vaughn Simon]

"tony roberts" > wrote in message
...
> To answer your question specifically -
> The most popular is the Cessna 172.

The OP's "family of four" may today contain two small children, but at best
the 172 would be a temporary answer.

Vaughn

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Borchert ]
> Posted At: Saturday, July 21, 2007 6:21 AM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
> Conversation: Short list wanted - popular 4-seat single engine land
> Subject: Re: Short list wanted - popular 4-seat single engine land
>
> Tuno,
....
> Since when does "popular" equal "best"?
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

I wondered when someone would point that out Thomas. Like "popularity
contests" the world over - rarely is the chosen contestant the best for
the role.

Vaughn has already pointed out step number one -> define your mission

What Tuno listed...
1000 miles or less
Family of 4
- How big are the kids now?
- How long before you have to move up in size?
IFR capabilities
- Does this mean glass panel or steam gauges to
you?
Southwest states

What still needs to be defined...
What are the short or soft field requirements?
Really, how much load do you plan on carrying?
Any odd sized baggage requirements like skis?
High MEAs mean turbo and oxygen may be required
High wing or low wing (kids looking out the windows?)
What is the price range to purchase and to operate?
How many hours per year?
Are you going to take on a partner or two?
- Partners putting hours on the bird is a good thing
- it dilutes fixed costs
- it keeps the bird from sitting long times
alone
- it lowers buy-in costs
- Partnership can also be a bad thing with the wrong
partner(s)
What do other flyers in the family think?
- they don't have to be pilots; they may be passengers
- but only if they want to go in the bird.


I've been through this pretty much over the past year and have been
seriously looking for the past 4 or 5 months. I've definitely chosen a
bird for my needs and desires and not popularity. Once I find the Navion
I want, I'll have good short and soft field capability, good endurance
with up to 100 gal. of fuel, nice large panel for future needs, nice
roomy interior, good weight carrying capabilities, reasonable service
ceiling for the Eastern half of the US and Canada, reasonable speed, and
lots of engine options when its time for overhaul. Of course, these damn
things are all older than me and good ones are hard to find in my price
range.

Good luck on your search, and don't let popularity make your decision
for you. No matter what you end up with if it isn't something that meets
your needs and makes you happy, you will not use it much no matter how
popular it is.

Kindest regards,
Jim Carter

Politicians fear most an armed, educated electorate.

[Dave[_16_]]

Maule,

Good capable aircraft in both tricycle and tail wheel versions.

[Tuno]

> Since when does "popular" equal "best"?

Since never. But they are related. The "best" may not be resellable or
maintainable if it is not also popular.

[Tuno]

As a glider driver I'm most intrigued by the Cirrus SR22 and Diamond
DA40. Glass slippers are cool.

No interest in dirt strips, but it will probably be necessary at some
point!

-tuno

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Tuno > said:
>As a glider driver I'm most intrigued by the Cirrus SR22 and Diamond
>DA40. Glass slippers are cool.

Don't know about the Cirrus, but the DA-40 has a useful load that sucks
compared to a Piper Archer or Dakota.

Again, you need to define your needs, and find a plane to meet it, rather
than saying "that plane looks cool".

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
"But you've got to hand it to IBM, they know how to design hardware. The
servers all had handles to pick them up and throw them out of the
window...." --Juergen Nieveler in the Monastery

[Vaughn Simon]

"Dave" > wrote in message
. net...
> Maule,
>
> Good capable aircraft in both tricycle and tail wheel versions.

...and it can tow a glider.

Vaughn

[Tuno]

Have been Mauled in my glider many times :)

[Jay Honeck]

> Don't know about the Cirrus, but the DA-40 has a useful load that sucks
> compared to a Piper Archer or Dakota.

EVERYTHING has a crappy useful load compared to a Dakota. Well,
except a Cherokee Six -- same plane with a longer body. (Or a Cessna
206, which does the same thing but with a WAY bigger engine.)

We've got the Pathfinder, Tuno, which is what the Dakota evolved
from. We also have four people in our family, and the Pathfinder is
one of the few planes that can carry an honest four adults, with 150
pounds of luggage AND full fuel.

1460 pounds is a wonderful thing when you're talking useful load.
And 84 gallons means that you don't have to stop for fuel as often.
We've flown ours in the desert Southwest, without difficulties. With
235 horsepower, density altitudes aren't quite as critical.

My suggestion: Go to Oshkosh in the next 7 days. You'll be able to
check out every make and model of GA aircraft that has ever been
made. Talking and reading about them simply can't compare to kicking
the tires and touching the wings.

We leave in 90 minutes....

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jul 20, 5:29 pm, "Howard Nelson" > wrote:
> "Tuno" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > Transportation for family of four. Mostly VFR but some IFR. Rarely
> > more than 1000 miles one-way. Southwest USA.
>
> Easy choice
>
> C182 or C182T

God, why? Unless he's also hauling granite why would me want to burn
that much fuel to go slow? Sure, an 18 wheeler can haul everything you
need but not everyone needs to haul that much. As you putt around at
130 knots in the C-182 some guy is going to zip by you on the same
fuel doing 200 knots in a Mooney.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jul 22, 5:45 am, Jay Honeck > wrote:

> We've got the Pathfinder, Tuno, which is what the Dakota evolved
> from. We also have four people in our family, and the Pathfinder is
> one of the few planes that can carry an honest four adults, with 150
> pounds of luggage AND full fuel.

What does "full fuel" mean? In my plane full fuel is about 7 hours of
flight, is that useful?

-Robert

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> the Pathfinder is
> one of the few planes that can carry an honest four adults, with 150
> pounds of luggage AND full fuel.
>

IOW, the tanks are too small.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Matt Whiting]

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> Jay,
>
>> the Pathfinder is
>> one of the few planes that can carry an honest four adults, with 150
>> pounds of luggage AND full fuel.
>>
>
> IOW, the tanks are too small.
>

As is the fuselage.

Matt

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jul 25, 12:31 am, Thomas Borchert >
wrote:
> Jay,
>
> > the Pathfinder is
> > one of the few planes that can carry an honest four adults, with 150
> > pounds of luggage AND full fuel.
>
> IOW, the tanks are too small.

My friend has a plane that can carry full fuel with luggage and all
seats full of adult men. Its called a Yak and it carries about 2 hours
of fuel.

-Robert

[Thomas Borchert]

Robert,

> it carries about 2 hours
> of fuel.
>

With two hours of fuel in the tanks, most common 4-seaters can carry
four adult men and luggage. Which is what I was trying to get at.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Margy Natalie]

Jim Carter wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Thomas Borchert ]
>>Posted At: Saturday, July 21, 2007 6:21 AM
>>Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
>>Conversation: Short list wanted - popular 4-seat single engine land
>>Subject: Re: Short list wanted - popular 4-seat single engine land
>>
>>Tuno,
>
> ...
>
>>Since when does "popular" equal "best"?
>>
>>--
>>Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>
>
> I wondered when someone would point that out Thomas. Like "popularity
> contests" the world over - rarely is the chosen contestant the best for
> the role.
>
> Vaughn has already pointed out step number one -> define your mission
>
> What Tuno listed...
> 1000 miles or less
> Family of 4
> - How big are the kids now?
> - How long before you have to move up in size?
> IFR capabilities
> - Does this mean glass panel or steam gauges to
> you?
> Southwest states
>
> What still needs to be defined...
> What are the short or soft field requirements?
> Really, how much load do you plan on carrying?
> Any odd sized baggage requirements like skis?
> High MEAs mean turbo and oxygen may be required
> High wing or low wing (kids looking out the windows?)
> What is the price range to purchase and to operate?
> How many hours per year?
> Are you going to take on a partner or two?
> - Partners putting hours on the bird is a good thing
> - it dilutes fixed costs
> - it keeps the bird from sitting long times
> alone
> - it lowers buy-in costs
> - Partnership can also be a bad thing with the wrong
> partner(s)
> What do other flyers in the family think?
> - they don't have to be pilots; they may be passengers
> - but only if they want to go in the bird.
>
>
> I've been through this pretty much over the past year and have been
> seriously looking for the past 4 or 5 months. I've definitely chosen a
> bird for my needs and desires and not popularity. Once I find the Navion
> I want, I'll have good short and soft field capability, good endurance
> with up to 100 gal. of fuel, nice large panel for future needs, nice
> roomy interior, good weight carrying capabilities, reasonable service
> ceiling for the Eastern half of the US and Canada, reasonable speed, and
> lots of engine options when its time for overhaul. Of course, these damn
> things are all older than me and good ones are hard to find in my price
> range.
>
> Good luck on your search, and don't let popularity make your decision
> for you. No matter what you end up with if it isn't something that meets
> your needs and makes you happy, you will not use it much no matter how
> popular it is.
>
> Kindest regards,
> Jim Carter
>
> Politicians fear most an armed, educated electorate.
>
>
You can't go wrong with a good Navion :-). Decide if you want to spend
your money now or later and then make your choices. If you find one
with an upgraded engine (IO 520 or IO 550) it will cost significantly
more than one with the E series (205 or 225), but the work will have
been done for you. If you get a 205 or 225 plan on upgrading when the
engine quits or needs overhauling. We had a GO-435 that we bought for
$35,000 and it lasted for a number of years before going boom. We spent
a lot (didn't care to keep track) on the new engine, interior, paint,
panel, etc., but that much work didn't really HAVE to get done. It's a
great plane.

Margy

[Ray Andraka]

Margy Natalie wrote:

> You can't go wrong with a good Navion :-). Decide if you want to spend
> your money now or later and then make your choices. If you find one
> with an upgraded engine (IO 520 or IO 550) it will cost significantly
> more than one with the E series (205 or 225), but the work will have
> been done for you. If you get a 205 or 225 plan on upgrading when the
> engine quits or needs overhauling. We had a GO-435 that we bought for
> $35,000 and it lasted for a number of years before going boom. We spent
> a lot (didn't care to keep track) on the new engine, interior, paint,
> panel, etc., but that much work didn't really HAVE to get done. It's a
> great plane.
>
> Margy

And yours is a pretty one too! It was great finally meeting you in real
life!

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Ray Andraka" wrote>


> Margy Natalie wrote:
>
>> You can't go wrong with a good Navion :-). Decide if you want to spend
>> your money now or later and then make your choices. If you find one with
>> an upgraded engine (IO 520 or IO 550) it will cost significantly more than
>> one with the E series (205 or 225), but the work will have been done for
>> you. If you get a 205 or 225 plan on upgrading when the engine quits or
>> needs overhauling. We had a GO-435 that we bought for $35,000 and it
>> lasted for a number of years before going boom. We spent a lot (didn't
>> care to keep track) on the new engine, interior, paint, panel, etc., but
>> that much work didn't really HAVE to get done. It's a great plane.
>>
>> Margy
>
> And yours is a pretty one too! It was great finally meeting you in real
> life!

Same here, both of you.

Hey, Margy: what about that name for 181GS you promised?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Margy Natalie]

>
>
> Same here, both of you.
>
> Hey, Margy: what about that name for 181GS you promised?
>

You'll have to describe her personal attibutes a bit more so I get to
know her. Better yet, fly up for a visit and I can meet her myself :-).

Margy