Groom Lake/area 51 Migs from 70s info needed

[Aerophotos]

Anyone got info on what the Red Hats Sqn flying foreign Migs were doing
at Groom lake aka Area 51 in the early-late 70s?

[Erik Plagen]

"Aerophotos" < wrote in message

> Anyone got info on what the Red Hats Sqn flying foreign Migs were doing
> at Groom lake aka Area 51 in the early-late 70s?

North American Aviation had a BBQ of Shrimp to celebrate Paul Hogan's new
Crocodile Dundee movie?

[Ragnar]

"Aerophotos" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone got info on what the Red Hats Sqn flying foreign Migs were doing
> at Groom lake aka Area 51 in the early-late 70s?

Presumably they were flying them.

[Gene Storey]

"Aerophotos" > wrote
>
> Anyone got info on what the Red Hats Sqn flying foreign Migs were doing
> at Groom lake aka Area 51 in the early-late 70s?

Never heard of the Red Hats, but the only Mig aircraft in the early 70's
would have been crap collectors items for defensive/spoofing electronic
sensor design. Now the Mig 23's that came later, *that* was some great
aircraft. I liked the fact how the 23 was built to NATO specs as far as
ground AGE was concerned! The 23's were the first aircraft out of
Groom that operated in a four-ship package, and scared the hell out of
just about everyone on the ranges. I have a picture of two 23's on the
port wing of an RC-135 over St. George, Utah giving us the bird.

[Gordon]

> The 23's were the first aircraft out of
>Groom that operated in a four-ship package, and scared the hell out of
>just about everyone on the ranges. I have a picture of two 23's on the
>port wing of an RC-135 over St. George, Utah giving us the bird.

Post it on Alt.binaries.pictures.military ! We'd love to see it.

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

[Dav1936531]

>From: Aerophotos
>
>
>Anyone got info on what the Red Hats Sqn flying foreign Migs were doing at
Groom lake aka Area 51 in the early-late 70s?

Ummmm, Groom Lake aka Area 51 didn't exist in the 70's. That's the story and
we're sticking to it.
Dave

[Tarver Engineering]

"Aerophotos" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone got info on what the Red Hats Sqn flying foreign Migs were doing
> at Groom lake aka Area 51 in the early-late 70s?

Red hats are GE, you figure it out.

[Aerophotos]

care to explain what my mate was doing flying a USAF aircraft over the
groom lake airspace and range in combat with "mig -21"was then ?

he even told me he has flown directly above groom lake and even done low
fly bys after the air combat training.

he flew extensively against the mig 21 in tactic evaluations.

so you sure area 51 didnt exist in 70s ?, please check your answer cause
your wrong.... according to my mate ....who done a lot of flying in the
USAF in his time and racked up some amazing things in his career...


Dav1936531 wrote:
>
> >From: Aerophotos
> >
> >
> >Anyone got info on what the Red Hats Sqn flying foreign Migs were doing at
> Groom lake aka Area 51 in the early-late 70s?
>
> Ummmm, Groom Lake aka Area 51 didn't exist in the 70's. That's the story and
> we're sticking to it.
> Dave

[C.D. Damron]

"Aerophotos" > wrote in message
...
mig 21 in tactic evaluations.
>
> so you sure area 51 didnt exist in 70s ?, please check your answer cause
> your wrong.... according to my mate ....who done a lot of flying in the
> USAF in his time and racked up some amazing things in his career...


Uhhhhhh, I think you missed something.

[breyfogle]

Area 51 has existed for something like 50 years or so but until the mid 80's
(??) it was so secret that any suggestion of its mere existance was
catagorically denied.

"Aerophotos" > wrote in message
...
> care to explain what my mate was doing flying a USAF aircraft over the
> groom lake airspace and range in combat with "mig -21"was then ?
>
> he even told me he has flown directly above groom lake and even done low
> fly bys after the air combat training.
>
> he flew extensively against the mig 21 in tactic evaluations.
>
> so you sure area 51 didnt exist in 70s ?, please check your answer cause
> your wrong.... according to my mate ....who done a lot of flying in the
> USAF in his time and racked up some amazing things in his career...
>
>
> Dav1936531 wrote:
> >
> > >From: Aerophotos
> > >
> > >
> > >Anyone got info on what the Red Hats Sqn flying foreign Migs were doing
at
> > Groom lake aka Area 51 in the early-late 70s?
> >
> > Ummmm, Groom Lake aka Area 51 didn't exist in the 70's. That's the story
and
> > we're sticking to it.
> > Dave

[B2431]

>From: Aerophotos

>care to explain what my mate was doing flying a USAF aircraft over the
>groom lake airspace and range in combat with "mig -21"was then ?
>
<snip>

>> Ummmm, Groom Lake aka Area 51 didn't exist in the 70's. That's the story
>and
>> we're sticking to it.
>> Dave

I could be wrong but I would venture to say Dave was joking.

Take a look at the charts for that time frame. The area is blank. The
government denied it existed. No one who worked there was allowed to
talk...etc.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[GregD]

Kinda like Brits and the 4th of July, eh?

Greg

"breyfogle" > wrote in message >...

> Area 51 has existed for something like 50 years or so but until the mid 80's
> (??) it was so secret that any suggestion of its mere existance was
> catagorically denied.
>

[Dav1936531]

>From: (B2431)
>

>>>Ummmm, Groom Lake aka Area 51 didn't exist in the 70's. That's the story and
we're sticking to it.
>>>Dave

>>From: Aerophotos
>>care to explain what my mate was doing flying a USAF aircraft over the groom
lake airspace and range in combat with "mig -21"was then ?

>I could be wrong but I would venture to say Dave was joking.
>
>Take a look at the charts for that time frame. The area is blank. The
>government denied it existed. No one who worked there was allowed to
>talk...etc.
>Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

You would be correct.....it was sort of a joke, although, the humor might not
have translated into that other English language (Australian) too well. Should
have pasted on a smilely. :)
Dave

[John S. Shinal]

Aerophotos wrote:

>Anyone got info on what the Red Hats Sqn flying foreign Migs were doing
>at Groom lake aka Area 51 in the early-late 70s?

As far as early 70s, that sounds like the right time for the
Have Drill/Have Doughnut tests with MiG17 and MiG21. I recall that the
Navy staff developing Top Gun's syllabus made use of USAF assets
during that phase. It may have been as early as the end of 1969,
though.



----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[DunxC]

Hi,

For info, in 1969 the USN flew 'Have Drill' missions with a MiG-19 against two
loaned ANG F-86Hs. Guess that puts a date for the start of the programme.

BTW - isn't there an ex-Red Hat MiG-21 in the USAFM?

Duncan

[Tarver Engineering]

"DunxC" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> For info, in 1969 the USN flew 'Have Drill' missions with a MiG-19 against
two
> loaned ANG F-86Hs. Guess that puts a date for the start of the programme.
>
> BTW - isn't there an ex-Red Hat MiG-21 in the USAFM?

Red hats are GE, it is an engine thing.

[breyfogle]

From a Google seach on "Red Hat Squadron"...

The Red Hat Squadron is the name given to the fliers of capture/stolen
Soviet aircraft. The Red Hat Squadron operates out of Area 51. It is
speculated they use Hanger 5 at the Area 51, Groom Lake airbase. Resulting
from the foreign material exploitation program named "Red Hat", the Red Hat
Squadron started in the 1960's and has been attributed to the improved
fighter kill ratios in the Viet Nam, the Persian Gulf and Serbia conflicts.
Soviet aircraft in the Red Hat Squadron include the Mig 17, Mig-19, Mig-21,
Mig-23, Mig-27 and Su-27.

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> "DunxC" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi,
> >
> > For info, in 1969 the USN flew 'Have Drill' missions with a MiG-19
against
> two
> > loaned ANG F-86Hs. Guess that puts a date for the start of the
programme.
> >
> > BTW - isn't there an ex-Red Hat MiG-21 in the USAFM?
>
> Red hats are GE, it is an engine thing.
>
>

[Tarver Engineering]

"breyfogle" > wrote in message
...
> From a Google seach on "Red Hat Squadron"...
>
> The Red Hat Squadron is the name given to the fliers of capture/stolen
> Soviet aircraft. The Red Hat Squadron operates out of Area 51. It is
> speculated they use Hanger 5 at the Area 51, Groom Lake airbase.
Resulting
> from the foreign material exploitation program named "Red Hat", the Red
Hat
> Squadron started in the 1960's and has been attributed to the improved
> fighter kill ratios in the Viet Nam, the Persian Gulf and Serbia
conflicts.
> Soviet aircraft in the Red Hat Squadron include the Mig 17, Mig-19,
Mig-21,
> Mig-23, Mig-27 and Su-27.

We had red hats at north base at Eddies, they are GE and secret (civilians).
What you dug up on google is what some nut wrote to a URL. They once did
quite a bit of traveling, but they are no more.

> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "DunxC" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > For info, in 1969 the USN flew 'Have Drill' missions with a MiG-19
> against
> > two
> > > loaned ANG F-86Hs. Guess that puts a date for the start of the
> programme.
> > >
> > > BTW - isn't there an ex-Red Hat MiG-21 in the USAFM?
> >
> > Red hats are GE, it is an engine thing.
> >
> >
>
>

[Qman]

breyfogle wrote:

> Soviet aircraft in the Red Hat Squadron include the Mig 17, Mig-19, Mig-21,
> Mig-23, Mig-27 and Su-27.

Where did they get Su-27 from?


Qman

[GregD]

"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message >...

> We had red hats at north base at Eddies, they are GE and secret (civilians).
> What you dug up on google is what some nut wrote to a URL.

Well that certainly adds credibility to what some nut (you) wrote to a
newsgroup. I have a red hat at home that has the GE logo on it - does
that make me a secret civilian?

GregD

[Tarver Engineering]

"GregD" > wrote in message
om...
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > We had red hats at north base at Eddies, they are GE and secret
(civilians).
> > What you dug up on google is what some nut wrote to a URL.
>
> Well that certainly adds credibility to what some nut (you) wrote to a
> newsgroup. I have a red hat at home that has the GE logo on it - does
> that make me a secret civilian?

Only if you woked on north Base at Edwards and not for JPL.

[Tank Fixer]

In article >, jan@artecdesign_punkt_ee says...
> breyfogle wrote:
>
> > Soviet aircraft in the Red Hat Squadron include the Mig 17, Mig-19, Mig-21,
> > Mig-23, Mig-27 and Su-27.
>
> Where did they get Su-27 from?
>

www.ebay.com

Seems some russian airbase needed the cash to turn the lights back on.....



--
0763rd Messkit & Gameboy Repair Company
404th Area Support Group (Lemming)

[Daryl Hunt]

"Qman" <jan@artecdesign_punkt_ee> wrote in message
...
> breyfogle wrote:
>
> > Soviet aircraft in the Red Hat Squadron include the Mig 17, Mig-19,
Mig-21,
> > Mig-23, Mig-27 and Su-27.
>
> Where did they get Su-27 from?

The SU-27 was exported as was the Mig-29. They weren't quite up to par with
the old Soviets Version but still a pretty darned good Fighter Platform. I
am unsure what the differences between the Export and the Non Export of the
SU-27.

[Qman]

Daryl Hunt wrote:

>>Where did they get Su-27 from?
>
>
> The SU-27 was exported as was the Mig-29.

Mig-29 is another story, US even bought officially a batch of them from
Moldova some time ago. But when did they get their hands on Su-27?


Qman