Alloys for certified parts?

[[email protected]]

I have run across someone who insists that
6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".

He claims that there are no certified parts made
from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?

--

FF

[Dave[_16_]]

wrote:
> I have run across someone who insists that
> 6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>
> He claims that there are no certified parts made
> from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
> certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>
> --
>
> FF
>
That is a pretty broad statement.

Parts are made from any materials that the manufacturer
desires/specifies. Wood, aluminum, brass, glass and anything in between.
That includes 6061 of all tempers.

Dave

[[email protected]]

On Jul 31, 4:03 am, Dave > wrote:
> wrote:
> > I have run across someone who insists that
> > 6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>
> > He claims that there are no certified parts made
> > from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
> > certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>
....
>
> That is a pretty broad statement.
>
> Parts are made from any materials that the manufacturer
> desires/specifies. Wood, aluminum, brass, glass and anything in between.
> That includes 6061 of all tempers.
>

That is kinda what I thought. I'd like to find some specific examples
of certified aircraft parts made from 6061. I took a gander at
Aircraft
Spruce's online catalog, but the search function isn't set up for
that.

I'm thinking that certified metal props will probably be 6061 too.

--

FF

[Gig 601XL Builder]

wrote:
> I have run across someone who insists that
> 6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>
> He claims that there are no certified parts made
> from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
> certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>
> FF

The LSA certified Zeniths are 6061-T6.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 31, 2:30 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
wrote:
> wrote:
> > I have run across someone who insists that
> > 6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>
> > He claims that there are no certified parts made
> > from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
> > certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>
> > FF
>
> The LSA certified Zeniths are 6061-T6.

Aha!.

I see that Aircraft Manufacturing & Development Co. (AMD)
sells FAA certified SLSA Zodiacs.

--

FF

[Gig 601XL Builder]

wrote:
> On Jul 31, 2:30 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> I have run across someone who insists that
>>> 6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>>
>>> He claims that there are no certified parts made
>>> from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
>>> certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>>
>>> FF
>>
>> The LSA certified Zeniths are 6061-T6.
>
> Aha!.
>
> I see that Aircraft Manufacturing & Development Co. (AMD)
> sells FAA certified SLSA Zodiacs.
>
> FF

Glad I could help. I have plenty of scrap 6061-T6 that you can have to tell
him to stick it up his A$$. ;)

[Phil]

I worked for one of the major A/C manufactures and they used 6061 for
several welded assemblies including the nosewheel fork , they formed the
parts cold and we pre-heated and welded the assemblies and they were sent
out for heat treat to bring the parts back to the T6 condition or about 35 K
Tensel , I can't ever remember seeing a piece of alum. or steel that said
aircraft on it , a Mil. spec no. might be stenciled on sheet , most
structural alum. used in A/C construction is 2024-T3 . Phil L.
> wrote in message
ps.com...
>I have run across someone who insists that
> 6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>
> He claims that there are no certified parts made
> from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
> certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>
> --
>
> FF
>

[John Kimmel]

wrote:
> On Jul 31, 4:03 am, Dave > wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>>I have run across someone who insists that
>>>6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>>
>>>He claims that there are no certified parts made
>>>from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
>>>certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>>
> ...
>
>>That is a pretty broad statement.
>>
>>Parts are made from any materials that the manufacturer
>>desires/specifies. Wood, aluminum, brass, glass and anything in between.
>>That includes 6061 of all tempers.
>>
>
>
> That is kinda what I thought. I'd like to find some specific examples
> of certified aircraft parts made from 6061. I took a gander at
> Aircraft
> Spruce's online catalog, but the search function isn't set up for
> that.
>
> I'm thinking that certified metal props will probably be 6061 too.
>
> --
>
> FF
>
>
>
Main rotor blade and tail rotor blade spars and skins for Sikorsky S-61
and CH-53 are 6061-T6

--
John Kimmel


I think it will be quiet around here now. So long.

[Vaughn Simon]

> wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Jul 31, 2:30 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net>
> wrote:
> I see that Aircraft Manufacturing & Development Co. (AMD)
> sells FAA certified SLSA Zodiacs.

While I believe you are on the winning side in your argument about aircraft
materials, the Zodiac may not be the best example to prove your point. As an
LSA, tt is certified to an industry standard, not an FAA standard. I recently
checked out in one and it even has a "warning" in the cockpit to that effect.

Vaughn

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote

> While I believe you are on the winning side in your argument about
> aircraft materials, the Zodiac may not be the best example to prove your
> point. As an LSA, tt is certified to an industry standard, not an FAA
> standard. I recently checked out in one and it even has a "warning" in
> the cockpit to that effect.

Yes, BUT don't let that warning read with too much meaning, either.

The warning is there, just as the warning in experimentals. It reads that
this aircraft does not meet the qualifications of FAA certified aircraft, or
something like that. I'm sure most of you remember exactly what that says.

It should be noticed that while it has not been compared directly to the FAA
standards, there are many, many homebuilts that far exceed the FAA
standards. Some of the quality in homebuilts make certified aircraft look
like erector set airplanes, in comparison. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Fred[_3_]]

On Aug 1, 12:17 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
> "Vaughn Simon" > wrote
>
> > ... As an LSA, tt is certified to an industry standard, not an FAA
> > standard. I recently checked out in one and it even has a "warning" in
> > the cockpit to that effect.
>
> Yes, BUT don't let that warning read with too much meaning, either.
> ...
> there are many, many homebuilts that far exceed the FAA
> standards. Some of the quality in homebuilts make certified aircraft look
> like erector set airplanes, in comparison. <g>
>

Of course. As I pointed out to the Bradley Aerospace
(Bradley Aerobat) company rep, 6061 T6 has 95% of
the yield strength of 2024 T3, and better corrosion
resistance so that you can make back some of that
minor weight penalty by using less paint.

He keeps harping on how 6061 is not "aircraft aluminum".
So I asked him which standards organization sets the
standards for "aircraft aluminum". His response to that
was to delete my earlier article comparing 2024 to 6061.

http://groups.msn.com/bradleyaerobat

As far as I can tell, "aircraft aluminum" is marketing hype
used to promote non-aviation products to a naive public.

As such, the term fits right in with Bradley Aerospace's
approach to marketing.

--

FF

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:42:40 -0700, John Kimmel
> wrote:

wrote:
>> On Jul 31, 4:03 am, Dave > wrote:
>>
wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have run across someone who insists that
>>>>6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>>>
>>>>He claims that there are no certified parts made
>>>>from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
>>>>certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>>>
>> ...
>>
>>>That is a pretty broad statement.
>>>
>>>Parts are made from any materials that the manufacturer
>>>desires/specifies. Wood, aluminum, brass, glass and anything in between.
>>>That includes 6061 of all tempers.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That is kinda what I thought. I'd like to find some specific examples
>> of certified aircraft parts made from 6061. I took a gander at
>> Aircraft
>> Spruce's online catalog, but the search function isn't set up for
>> that.
>>
>> I'm thinking that certified metal props will probably be 6061 too.
>>
>> --
>>
>> FF
>>
>>
>>
>Main rotor blade and tail rotor blade spars and skins for Sikorsky S-61
>and CH-53 are 6061-T6

the Fokker friendship was built from 6o61 as are the chris heintz
designs.
metal props are usually 2025.
Stealth Pilot

[Vaughn Simon]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Vaughn Simon" > wrote
>
>> While I believe you are on the winning side in your argument about
>> aircraft materials, the Zodiac may not be the best example to prove your
>> point. As an LSA, tt is certified to an industry standard, not an FAA
>> standard. I recently checked out in one and it even has a "warning" in the
>> cockpit to that effect.
>
> Yes, BUT don't let that warning read with too much meaning, either.

I don't, or I wouldn't have bothered checking out in the plane. My comment was
only to point out that the OP might want to find a more bulletproof example to
prove his point.

Vaughn

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Fred" <> wrote

> As far as I can tell, "aircraft aluminum" is marketing hype
> used to promote non-aviation products to a naive public.
>
> As such, the term fits right in with Bradley Aerospace's
> approach to marketing.

Bingo !
--
Jim in NC

[Dan[_2_]]

Morgans wrote:
> "Fred" <> wrote
>
>> As far as I can tell, "aircraft aluminum" is marketing hype
>> used to promote non-aviation products to a naive public.
>>
>> As such, the term fits right in with Bradley Aerospace's
>> approach to marketing.
>
> Bingo !

Remember "parachute luggage" from the 1970s? "Made from the same
material as Air Force parachutes."

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[[email protected]]

On Aug 1, 8:06 am, Stealth Pilot >
wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:42:40 -0700, John Kimmel
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> wrote:
> >> On Jul 31, 4:03 am, Dave > wrote:
>
> wrote:
>
> >>>>I have run across someone who insists that
> >>>>6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>
> >>>>He claims that there are no certified parts made
> >>>>from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
> >>>>certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>
> >> ...
>
> >>>That is a pretty broad statement.
>
> >>>Parts are made from any materials that the manufacturer
> >>>desires/specifies. Wood, aluminum, brass, glass and anything in between.
> >>>That includes 6061 of all tempers.
>
> >> That is kinda what I thought. I'd like to find some specific examples
> >> of certified aircraft parts made from 6061. I took a gander at
> >> Aircraft
> >> Spruce's online catalog, but the search function isn't set up for
> >> that.
>
> >> I'm thinking that certified metal props will probably be 6061 too.
>
> >> --
>
> >> FF
>
> >Main rotor blade and tail rotor blade spars and skins for Sikorsky S-61
> >and CH-53 are 6061-T6
>
> the Fokker friendship was built from 6o61 as are the chris heintz
> designs.
> metal props are usually 2025.
> Stealth Pilot- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The Cessnas I work on every day have a lot of extruded angle
in them, and I bet much of it is 6061T6. Perhaps the spar caps are
2024T3 extrusions.

Dan

[Bill Chernoff]

>As far as I can tell, "aircraft aluminum" is marketing hype
>used to promote non-aviation products to a naive public

Yep. Like "surgical steel".

[Fred the Red Shirt]

On Aug 2, 1:55 am, wrote:
> On Aug 1, 8:06 am, Stealth Pilot >
> wrote:
>
>
> ...
>
> > >Main rotor blade and tail rotor blade spars and skins for Sikorsky S-61
> > >and CH-53 are 6061-T6
>
> > the Fokker friendship was built from 6o61 as are the chris heintz
> > designs.
> > metal props are usually 2025.
> > Stealth Pilot- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The Cessnas I work on every day have a lot of extruded angle
> in them, and I bet much of it is 6061T6. Perhaps the spar caps are
> 2024T3 extrusions.
>

Any welded aluminum is unlikely to be 2024.

I have heard that DC-3s used 6061.

--

FF

[Maxwell]

> wrote in message
ps.com...
>I have run across someone who insists that
> 6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>
> He claims that there are no certified parts made
> from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
> certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>
> --
>

Seems like the drop tanks on the F-15 were 6061, they were certainly
weldable. Possibly the early Harriers too. Been too many years to recall for
sure. I welded on both of these programs at McDonnell Douglas, back in the
70s.

[J.Kahn]

wrote:
> I have run across someone who insists that
> 6061 T6 is not "aircraft grade aluminum".
>
> He claims that there are no certified parts made
> from 6061. I find that hard to believe. Aren't there
> certified aircraft with welded aluminum frames?
>
> --
>
> FF
>
On the Canadair RJs, the leading edges are 6063. The flappers for the
cabin inflow check valves are 3000 grade, basically aluminum siding
material.

Parts for an aircraft can be made from cast iron if the manufacturer
qualifies the part to whatever spec is applicable. Certified grade
material more relates to QA processes, not the specific alloy.

In avionics, manufacturers have been forced to move away from mil-spec
components like microprocessors, when the manufacturers stopped make
them, to commercial grade surface mount parts. Mil-Spec is now
Mil-Perf, and the parts no longer need to be made a certain way, they
just have to meet performance limits. So companies purchase commercial
grade parts and test them and keep the ones that meet Mil-Perf specs and
they are now certified aircraft parts.

John