430W doubling in cost?

[bdl]

Anybody heard this from another avionics shop, or is this just a
Cincinnati Avionics thing?

" Schedule your WAAS upgrade now!
Save $1495.00"

"Effective September 1st the WAAS Upgrade price will increase from
$1500.00 to $2995.00, therefore schedule your WAAS upgrade by August
31st to be completed before May 31, 2008 and save $1495.00."


We have a 430, but not the WAAS upgrade. We were tabling the issue of
upgrading, since we don't fly enough approaches to justify the
additional cost.

I can't find anything on the Garmin site about increase in cost.

Brian
N9093K

[Al G[_2_]]

"bdl" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Anybody heard this from another avionics shop, or is this just a
> Cincinnati Avionics thing?
>
> " Schedule your WAAS upgrade now!
> Save $1495.00"
>
> "Effective September 1st the WAAS Upgrade price will increase from
> $1500.00 to $2995.00, therefore schedule your WAAS upgrade by August
> 31st to be completed before May 31, 2008 and save $1495.00."
>
>
> We have a 430, but not the WAAS upgrade. We were tabling the issue of
> upgrading, since we don't fly enough approaches to justify the
> additional cost.
>
> I can't find anything on the Garmin site about increase in cost.
>
> Brian
> N9093K
>

I haven't seen it on the Garmin site, but this is correct. You have to
schedule it before 9/1/07, but the work can wait until sometime in 2008.
(March maybe?)

Al G

[Gig 601XL Builder]

bdl wrote:
> Anybody heard this from another avionics shop, or is this just a
> Cincinnati Avionics thing?
>
> " Schedule your WAAS upgrade now!
> Save $1495.00"
>
> "Effective September 1st the WAAS Upgrade price will increase from
> $1500.00 to $2995.00, therefore schedule your WAAS upgrade by August
> 31st to be completed before May 31, 2008 and save $1495.00."
>
>
> We have a 430, but not the WAAS upgrade. We were tabling the issue of
> upgrading, since we don't fly enough approaches to justify the
> additional cost.
>
> I can't find anything on the Garmin site about increase in cost.
>
> Brian
> N9093K

It doesn't surprise me. They have been saying from before they started doing
the upgrades that the cost would be at $1500 only for a limited time.
Announcing that it will be double a year from now should push through a
pretty good amount of cash into their bank account over the next year.

I'm actually a little surprised they've kept the lower rate this long.

[John T.[_2_]]

Remember that there are likely additional charges to the $1495. A new
antenna to receive the WAAS and possibly a new RF antenna cable with
lower loss will need to be installed.

Having said that, we debated the choices in my partnership and went
ahead with it. Beyond the approach capabilities, the advantages we used
to rationalize it were:

Much new hardware inside (for whatever that is worth)
Addition of a decent terrain warning map
Much faster updates to track (maybe 5 Hz)

This last one might be of use in IMC with gyro problems.

-John T.

bdl wrote:
> Anybody heard this from another avionics shop, or is this just a
> Cincinnati Avionics thing?
>
> " Schedule your WAAS upgrade now!
> Save $1495.00"
>
> "Effective September 1st the WAAS Upgrade price will increase from
> $1500.00 to $2995.00, therefore schedule your WAAS upgrade by August
> 31st to be completed before May 31, 2008 and save $1495.00."
>
>
> We have a 430, but not the WAAS upgrade. We were tabling the issue of
> upgrading, since we don't fly enough approaches to justify the
> additional cost.
>
> I can't find anything on the Garmin site about increase in cost.
>
> Brian
> N9093K
>

[Peter R.]

On 8/3/2007 2:01:49 PM, "John T." wrote:

> Remember that there are likely additional charges to the $1495. A new
> antenna to receive the WAAS and possibly a new RF antenna cable with
> lower loss will need to be installed.

And, for some of us, the additional requirement of an annunciator switch also
adds to the cost. I was quoted $800 for the switch, and another $500 for the
labor to install it. So far I have been on the fence regarding the upgrade
due the additional cost, but if it is going to jump by that much...

--
Peter

[Peter Clark]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 15:53:43 -0000, bdl >
wrote:

>Anybody heard this from another avionics shop, or is this just a
>Cincinnati Avionics thing?
>
>" Schedule your WAAS upgrade now!
> Save $1495.00"
>
>"Effective September 1st the WAAS Upgrade price will increase from
>$1500.00 to $2995.00, therefore schedule your WAAS upgrade by August
>31st to be completed before May 31, 2008 and save $1495.00."
>
>
>We have a 430, but not the WAAS upgrade. We were tabling the issue of
>upgrading, since we don't fly enough approaches to justify the
>additional cost.

Garmin announced this via a dealer bulletin a while back.

[Peter Clark]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:01:47 -0400, "John T."
> wrote:

>Remember that there are likely additional charges to the $1495. A new
>antenna to receive the WAAS and possibly a new RF antenna cable with
>lower loss will need to be installed.

The new antenna comes in the $1500 kit. If you have a real old
aircraft you may need new coax. I did a dual-430 seminole for less
than $4k all-in.

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"John T." > writes:

> Remember that there are likely additional charges to the $1495. A
> new antenna to receive the WAAS and possibly a new RF antenna cable
> with lower loss will need to be installed.

Indeed. My local avionics shop estimated more like $4000 for the
whole deal.

> Much new hardware inside (for whatever that is worth)
> Addition of a decent terrain warning map

(That was already available for about 1 AMU as a separate upgrade for
430/530's.)

> Much faster updates to track (maybe 5 Hz)
> This last one might be of use in IMC with gyro problems.

Dunno. Digital numbers won't be readable at 5 changes per second.
Analog outputs are basically just CDI/VDI's, whose super-rapid updates
may help only during the tail end of an approach.

- FChE

[Viperdoc]

I traded in my non WAAS 530 for a new 530W, and installed a new 430 W as
well for around $11,000, including the new antennas and cabling, along with
the installation and annunciator.

The upgrade for a 430 may not be as valuable as for a 530, since the screen
is so much smaller, and there is less information available. Flying an
approach with a single unit, it would not be practical to switch from the
map page to the terrain page and back. The situational awareness from the
530 is far superior.

However, flying the GPS approaches when coupled to an autopilot are a dream-
smooth, and with no hunting like on an ILS. This would be the case with
either unit.

From the SA perspective alone, upgrading the 430 may not be cost effective,
especially with a single unit installation.

[Peter R.]

On 8/3/2007 5:59:34 PM, "Peter R." wrote:

> So far I have been on the fence regarding the upgrade
> due the additional cost, but if it is going to jump by that much...

Okay, after mulling it over for the last few weeks I went ahead and scheduled
my GNS430 to be upgraded at the end of the month. There are enough LPV
approaches here in the Northeast US to justify it, and having a glideslope
capability on non-precision approaches will be much nicer than the
dive-and-drive method.

The doubling of the upgrade price by Garmin served its purpose.

--
Peter

[Viperdoc]

Just did an RNAV/GPS approach today, and this again confirms the decision to
go with the WAAS upgrade.

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Viperdoc" wrote:

> Just did an RNAV/GPS approach today, and this again confirms the decision to
> go with the WAAS upgrade.

Rumor has it that the WAAS upgrade for the pre-2007 G1000s will cost ~$15,000,
plus labor.

I'd like to have it, but if the rumor is true, I doubt I'll take the plunge.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Andrew Gideon[_2_]]

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:38:54 -0500, Viperdoc wrote:

> Just did an RNAV/GPS approach today, and this again confirms the decision
> to go with the WAAS upgrade.

Several members of my club (not a majority, but...) have expressed a
disinterest in WAAS. Admittedly, some of these are not IFR fliers. But
I'm at something of a loss to "sell" this upgrade.

What was it about flying the approach that confirmed your decision? The
vertical guidance? Something else?

- Andrew

[Peter R.]

On 8/15/2007 10:50:44 AM, Andrew Gideon wrote:

> Several members of my club (not a majority, but...) have expressed a
> disinterest in WAAS. Admittedly, some of these are not IFR fliers. But
> I'm at something of a loss to "sell" this upgrade.

To a casual IFR pilot (one who uses it to fly to a $100 hamburger airport) or
a VFR pilot, I don't necessarily see the value in the upgrade.

For those of us who fly hard IFR in areas of the US where hard IFR is
possible without thunderstorms or heavy ice, the upgrade and the cost thereof
is much more justifiable. In my case, I fly for Angel Flight Northeast to all
kinds of airports when I am not commuting with my aircraft weekly for
business, so having the glideslope feature for either an LPV approach or even
a non-precision GPS approach adds an unquantifiable level of safety to the
flight.

--
Peter

[Peter Clark]

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 06:54:43 -0500, "Dan Luke"
> wrote:

>
>"Viperdoc" wrote:
>
>> Just did an RNAV/GPS approach today, and this again confirms the decision to
>> go with the WAAS upgrade.
>
>Rumor has it that the WAAS upgrade for the pre-2007 G1000s will cost ~$15,000,
>plus labor.
>
>I'd like to have it, but if the rumor is true, I doubt I'll take the plunge.

That rumored price is also rumored not to include the likely $5k-$7k
core credit for the GIAs, making it $8k-$10k. $4k/box would almost
the same as the 430/530 upgrade after the promotion period. I don't
have a parts manual handy, but I think the comdat's that are already
installed are the same comdats as the WAAS birds, so the labor is
likely to be something like 1hr to swap the boxes and maybe 1.5 to
install the WAAS version of the new system software. Even if they're
not, it only takes .5 hours to swap one of those antenni out and RTV
around the edge. The upgrade should be a 1/2 day affair, if even.

It'll be interesting to see what's going on with the upgrade, but I
doubt they're putting much attention towards it with the AHARS issue.
Course, that's not neccessarily Cessna's labor to spin fixing, so
maybe they will get the SB out on time.

[Andrew Gideon]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 20:16:54 -0400, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:


> Indeed. My local avionics shop estimated more like $4000 for the whole
> deal.

I was just quoted an expected maximum of $2500 (including the $1500 to
Garmin) per radio from my local shop.

[...]
>> Addition of a
>> decent terrain warning map

That same shop told me that terrain is *not* a part of the W upgrade,
though still remains an available add-on.

>> Much faster updates to track (maybe 5 Hz) This last one might be of use
>> in IMC with gyro problems.
>
> Dunno. Digital numbers won't be readable at 5 changes per second.
> Analog outputs are basically just CDI/VDI's, whose super-rapid updates
> may help only during the tail end of an approach.

I think, if one is using track as a replacement for a failed DG for
example, that 5 updates a second would be quite manageable. A second
is a long time, in that sense. Say "Mississippi", for example, while
tapping your finger five times. Once you get the rhythm, it's not tough.
But I've not tried actually reading a display like this.

Also, consider that if you're spinning so fast that the ones digit is
illegible, you can still see the direction of your spin with the tens
digit. That's enough to slow the turn so as to render the ones digit
usable again (plus provide for some other benefits {8^).

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:09:25 -0400, Andrew Gideon wrote:

> That same shop told me that terrain is *not* a part of the W upgrade,
> though still remains an available add-on.

I contacted Garmin on their technical support line, and was told that
terrain *is* a part of the upgrade.

- Andrew

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

Terrain is part of the upgrade. However, with a single unit installation,
the terrain feature is not as useful. If, for example, you're flying an
approach, you wouldn't want to be switching back and forth between the nav
page and the terrain page. (It will give an aural alert if set up)

It may be of more benefit if you fly in mountainous terrain at night, etc.
Then, the primary page might be the terrain page, rather than the nav page.

I am fortunate to have a 530/430, and use the main nav page on the 530, with
terrain or traffic displayed on the 430. This give an added measure of
situational awareness.

[Andrew Gideon]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:11:33 -0500, Viperdoc wrote:

> (It will give an aural alert if set up)

I'd thought that the 430 lacked the ability to alert via audio, and that
that was why it couldn't be TAWS certified. No? That would be a nice
added feature.

- Andrew

[Grumman 46U]

Andrew--

I had my 430 upgraded to a 430-W a month ago. On a short flight from
HYI (San Marcos, TX) to T82 (Fredericksburg) last Sunday, I
intentionally flew toward a tower (1,149'AGL) that lies almost
directly in that flight path. Sure enough, there was an aural warning
from the GPS, and the tower showed clearly on the screen.

Michael


On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:57:52 -0400, Andrew Gideon >
wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:11:33 -0500, Viperdoc wrote:
>
>> (It will give an aural alert if set up)
>
>I'd thought that the 430 lacked the ability to alert via audio, and that
>that was why it couldn't be TAWS certified. No? That would be a nice
>added feature.
>
> - Andrew