Basic Stupid Newbie Questions...

[John Penta]

[Note by author: This post edited before post to keep on-topic.
Editing very basic. Apologies if some stuff doesn't make sense....)

Hiya. I'm a newbie here. Please don't hurt me.:-)

Anyhow, was wondering if anyone here could help me with a tiny set
of questions I've had for a long, long time. Basic stuff, but never
found the answers for.

OK, to explain. In the rest of my life, I help run a small PBEM
with a modern-day geopolitical theme. So, I keep having a need for
some pretty esoteric data. Like this.

Namely, I need the following. Since I'm on my last ropes, I figured
I'd ask here. I've looked through Google Groups and looked for
websites on Google and Yahoo. Nogo.:-(

I Combat Systems Costs

I need costs (per unit, "sticker price" if you will) for the following
combat systems (in current USD). Before you ask: I've looked on
Google. I've looked on Yahoo. I've been looking for the past 3 years.
Most stuff I can make up (for rifles, radios, etc)...However, for
bigger ticket items, I have no frame of reference.

So...in a BIG list (so as to keep from spamming looking multiple
times...)

Kfir C2
Kfir C7
Mirage III
Mirage V
Mirage 2000
F16C (Let's say block 52, for argument's sake)
F/A 18
F/B 22
F/A 35
F15C
F15E
MiG-29
MiG-31
MiG-35(?)
AH-64D
AH-1
Mi-24
Ka-50
Su-27
Rafale
Eurofighter
Phalcon
A-50 Mainstay
E-3
E-2C


II Unit sizes

OK, this sounds really stupid. But, y'know, I've looked. NOBODY I
know (30 different people thusfar have looked) can find it. Again,
looked at Google, etc.

I need the most BASIC info....Unit sizes.

I'll detail what I need here:

How many A/C (and how many people) per Flight? Per Squadron (and
how many flights per Sqn), Wing (how many people per wing? A/C per
wing? Sqns per wing?) and...up.

3. Foreign equivalents

If you know, please. The same data for non-US forces (Commonwealth
countries, FSU-trained, or anybody else) would be very, very
appreciated.
-----

OK, please don't flame me for asking such newbie questions. I feel
unworthy even for asking them.

But...Thanks in Advance.

[phil hunt]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:21:52 -0400, John Penta > wrote:
>I Combat Systems Costs
>
>I need costs (per unit, "sticker price" if you will) for the following
>combat systems (in current USD). Before you ask: I've looked on
>Google. I've looked on Yahoo. I've been looking for the past 3 years.
>Most stuff I can make up (for rifles, radios, etc)...However, for
>bigger ticket items, I have no frame of reference.

You asked this question before, a few weeks ago. You got some
useful URLs, from me and other people. Why are you asking again?

--
A: top posting

Q: what's the most annoying thing about Usenet?

[John Penta]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:13:33 +0100, (phil hunt)
wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:21:52 -0400, John Penta > wrote:
>>I Combat Systems Costs
>>
>>I need costs (per unit, "sticker price" if you will) for the following
>>combat systems (in current USD). Before you ask: I've looked on
>>Google. I've looked on Yahoo. I've been looking for the past 3 years.
>>Most stuff I can make up (for rifles, radios, etc)...However, for
>>bigger ticket items, I have no frame of reference.
>
>You asked this question before, a few weeks ago. You got some
>useful URLs, from me and other people. Why are you asking again?

Because there was a lot I couldn't find, so I figured that if I
checked another NG, it would bring up more.

My apologies.:-(

[John Penta]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:43:56 +0200, DAN > wrote:

>John Penta wrote:
>
>>I need costs (per unit, "sticker price" if you will) for the following
>>combat systems (in current USD).
>
>>Kfir C2
>>Kfir C7
>>Mirage III
>>Mirage V
>
>Those have been out of production for decades.
>
>there is no point in trying to express in the same current currency a mirage 3
>which was produced in the early 60s and a Rafale being produced now.
>
>Besides,...
>the most recent sale of a Mirage III was for USD 1.00, and is being delivered
>right now. From Argentina back to the IDF-AF museum at Hatzerim. Good machine,
>too: 12 confirmed kills.
>
>Tells you something about current market price?
>LOL.

I thought I heard soemthing about Israel selling Brazil (or perhaps
India) C10 models of the Kfir...?

Now, re unit sizes:

I don't even know where to LOOK, that's the problem. I figured
militaries all templated this stuff, at least based upon unit
role/mission. Google, yahoo, etc. are useless because they simply
overload me with information, and it's difficult to impossible to find
the useful bits.

John

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

DAN wrote:
> Really? I entered into google: " "kfir c-10" brazil " and on the 1st page I
> had the following link,
> www.estadao.com.br/agestado/noticias/2002/ago/15/116.htm which contains the
> following tidbit. I don't speak brazilian or portugese, but US$ must mean the
> same thing over there. For milhoes and bilhao, try guessing millions and
> billion... "a FAB vai alugar, por US$ 91 milhões, 12 aviões Kfir C-10
> israelenses para substituir os Mirage a curto prazo.
> Para o longo prazo, o projeto FX-BR prevê a compra de compra de 12 a 24 caças
> supersônicos. O valor da licitação varia entre US$ 700 milhões e US$ 1
> bilhão, e há cinco grupos na disputa."

Fishbowl's translation from Portueguese to English says:
"the BAF goes to rent, for USS 91 million, 12 Israeli airplanes Kfir C-10 to
substitute the short-term Mirage. For the long stated period, the Fx-br project
foresees the purchase of purchase of 12 the 24 supersonic huntings. The value of
the licitation varies between USS 700 million and USS 1 billion, and has five
groups in the dispute."
I think we can figure it out. :)


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

[John Penta]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:11:37 +0200, DAN > wrote:

>John Penta wrote:
>
>>I thought I heard soemthing about Israel selling Brazil (or perhaps
>>India) C10 models of the Kfir...?
>
>>Now, re unit sizes:
>>
>>I don't even know where to LOOK, that's the problem. I figured
>>militaries all templated this stuff, at least based upon unit
>>role/mission. Google, yahoo, etc. are useless because they simply
>>overload me with information, and it's difficult to impossible to find
>>the useful bits.
>
>Really? I entered into google: " "kfir c-10" brazil " and on the 1st page I had
>the following link, www.estadao.com.br/agestado/noticias/2002/ago/15/116.htm
>which contains the following tidbit. I don't speak brazilian or portugese, but
>US$ must mean the same thing over there. For milhoes and bilhao, try guessing
>millions and billion...
[snippage]

You misunderstand my post. I was referring to an inability to find
info re unit sizes, not the Kfir.

John