Joint German-Israeli airforce excersie (Israeli airforce beats German pilots)

[Quant]

This is the first Joint airforce excersie between Isael and Germany
and it shows how close to each other the two countries are.

Israeli pilots beat the Germans by more than 100 hits in dogfights
excersie (I don't know what exactly the excersie was simulating).


According ot Janes:
http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/idr/idr010529_1_n.shtml

Few years ago, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater
recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The
Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried
Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's
source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis
prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.


--

< http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1064202589502


Sep. 22, 2003
Israeli airforce beats German pilots in 'dogfight' exercise
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in
"dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two
countries, an Israeli military official said Monday.

The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does
not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than
100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In
the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar
margins, the officials added.

Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing
its own locally made systems into the aircraft.

The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of
Sardinia in Italy.

Germany is considered one of Israel's closest defense allies.
Recently, Germany sold _ for a symbolic fee _ three advanced "Dolphin"
submarines to Israel.

Israel's air force has held exercises with the United States and
Turkey recently.

[Adam Helberg]

"Quant" > wrote in message
om...
> This is the first Joint airforce excersie between Isael and Germany
> and it shows how close to each other the two countries are.
>
> Israeli pilots beat the Germans by more than 100 hits in dogfights
> excersie (I don't know what exactly the excersie was simulating).
>
>
> According ot Janes:
> http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/idr/idr010529_1_n.shtml
>
> Few years ago, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater
> recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The
> Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried
> Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's
> source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis
> prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.
>
>
> --
>
> <
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1064202589502
>
>
> Sep. 22, 2003
> Israeli airforce beats German pilots in 'dogfight' exercise
> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in
> "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two
> countries, an Israeli military official said Monday.
>
> The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does
> not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than
> 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In
> the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar
> margins, the officials added.
>
> Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing
> its own locally made systems into the aircraft.
>
> The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of
> Sardinia in Italy.
>
> Germany is considered one of Israel's closest defense allies.
> Recently, Germany sold _ for a symbolic fee _ three advanced "Dolphin"
> submarines to Israel.
>
> Israel's air force has held exercises with the United States and
> Turkey recently.

Excellent news.

[Bernhard]

Adam Helberg wrote:
> "Quant" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>>This is the first Joint airforce excersie between Isael and Germany
>>and it shows how close to each other the two countries are.
>>
>>Israeli pilots beat the Germans by more than 100 hits in dogfights
>>excersie (I don't know what exactly the excersie was simulating).
>>
>>
>>According ot Janes:
>>http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/idr/idr010529_1_n.shtml
>>
>>Few years ago, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater
>>recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The
>>Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried
>>Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's
>>source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis
>>prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>><
>
> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1064202589502
>
>>
>>Sep. 22, 2003
>>Israeli airforce beats German pilots in 'dogfight' exercise
>>By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>>
>>Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in
>>"dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two
>>countries, an Israeli military official said Monday.
>>
>>The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does
>>not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than
>>100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In
>>the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar
>>margins, the officials added.
>>
>>Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing
>>its own locally made systems into the aircraft.
>>
>>The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of
>>Sardinia in Italy.
>>
>>Germany is considered one of Israel's closest defense allies.
>>Recently, Germany sold _ for a symbolic fee _ three advanced "Dolphin"
>>submarines to Israel.
>>
>>Israel's air force has held exercises with the United States and
>>Turkey recently.
>
>
> Excellent news.
>
>
to whom? no money, no training = german air force.

[The Enlightenment]

Bernhard > wrote in message >...
> Adam Helberg wrote:
> > "Quant" > wrote in message
> > om...
> >
> >
> > Excellent news.
> >
> >
> to whom? no money, no training = german air force.

Given the very high productivity of the German industry and workforce
it would be interesting to see where the idiots that are now running
the Germany are blowing the nations money on.

[robert arndt]

(Quant) wrote in message >...
> This is the first Joint airforce excersie between Isael and Germany
> and it shows how close to each other the two countries are.
>
> Israeli pilots beat the Germans by more than 100 hits in dogfights
> excersie (I don't know what exactly the excersie was simulating).
>
>
> According ot Janes:
> http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/idr/idr010529_1_n.shtml
>
> Few years ago, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater
> recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The
> Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried
> Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's
> source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis
> prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.
>
>
> --
>
> < http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1064202589502
>
>
> Sep. 22, 2003
> Israeli airforce beats German pilots in 'dogfight' exercise
> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in
> "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two
> countries, an Israeli military official said Monday.
>
> The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does
> not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than
> 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In
> the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar
> margins, the officials added.
>
> Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing
> its own locally made systems into the aircraft.
>
> The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of
> Sardinia in Italy.
>
> Germany is considered one of Israel's closest defense allies.
> Recently, Germany sold _ for a symbolic fee _ three advanced "Dolphin"
> submarines to Israel.
>
> Israel's air force has held exercises with the United States and
> Turkey recently.

Not surprising as Israeli-German military cooperation has flourished
since the late 1990s. The Israelis helped with avionics/electronic
packages for the Tornado and Germany has sold Israel sophisticated
chemical detection gear, 3 Dolphin class subs with modified torpedo
tubes to launch cruise missiles, and critical powerpack/transmission
package for the Merkava 4 MBT... among other things.
BTW, talks are in the works for the IAF to train in the US along with
the Germans at Holloman AFB, NM.

Rob

p.s. As far as the dogfight exercise goes, it is no big deal. German
pilots flying MiG-29s in the '90s routinely beat USN and USMC aircraft
in joint exercises. Any real test of abilities would come in actual
warfare and the German record historically is excellent.

[MCN]

In a duel F-15 against F-4 II it isn't that big surprise, but it is well
known that the IAF is superior to every AF when it comes to dogfights in
jets.



Best,



MCN

"Quant" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
om...
> This is the first Joint airforce excersie between Isael and Germany
> and it shows how close to each other the two countries are.
>
> Israeli pilots beat the Germans by more than 100 hits in dogfights
> excersie (I don't know what exactly the excersie was simulating).
>
>
> According ot Janes:
> http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/idr/idr010529_1_n.shtml
>
> Few years ago, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater
> recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The
> Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried
> Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's
> source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis
> prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.
>
>
> --
>
> <
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1064202589502
>
>
> Sep. 22, 2003
> Israeli airforce beats German pilots in 'dogfight' exercise
> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in
> "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two
> countries, an Israeli military official said Monday.
>
> The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does
> not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than
> 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In
> the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar
> margins, the officials added.
>
> Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing
> its own locally made systems into the aircraft.
>
> The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of
> Sardinia in Italy.
>
> Germany is considered one of Israel's closest defense allies.
> Recently, Germany sold _ for a symbolic fee _ three advanced "Dolphin"
> submarines to Israel.
>
> Israel's air force has held exercises with the United States and
> Turkey recently.

[Tilly]

phil hunt wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:57:51 -0700, Hobo > wrote:
>> In article >,
>> (Quant) wrote:
>>
>>> Recently, Germany sold _ for a symbolic fee _ three advanced
>>> "Dolphin" submarines to Israel.
>>
>> The Germans gave Israel 3 subs for free and then refused to sell the
>> same design to Taiwan at market price.
>
> How bizarre.


Due to pressure from China no doubt.



Tilly

--

[robert arndt]

"MCN" > wrote in message >...
> In a duel F-15 against F-4 II it isn't that big surprise, but it is well
> known that the IAF is superior to every AF when it comes to dogfights in
> jets.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> MCN

Not necessarily. If the Germans had used the now retired MiG-29s using
the IRST the Israelis might have lost. And, what of the new
Eurofighter coming into use?

Rob
>
> "Quant" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> om...
> > This is the first Joint airforce excersie between Isael and Germany
> > and it shows how close to each other the two countries are.
> >
> > Israeli pilots beat the Germans by more than 100 hits in dogfights
> > excersie (I don't know what exactly the excersie was simulating).
> >
> >
> > According ot Janes:
> > http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/idr/idr010529_1_n.shtml
> >
> > Few years ago, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater
> > recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The
> > Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried
> > Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's
> > source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis
> > prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > <
> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1064202589502
> >
> >
> > Sep. 22, 2003
> > Israeli airforce beats German pilots in 'dogfight' exercise
> > By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
> >
> > Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in
> > "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two
> > countries, an Israeli military official said Monday.
> >
> > The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does
> > not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than
> > 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In
> > the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar
> > margins, the officials added.
> >
> > Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing
> > its own locally made systems into the aircraft.
> >
> > The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of
> > Sardinia in Italy.
> >
> > Germany is considered one of Israel's closest defense allies.
> > Recently, Germany sold _ for a symbolic fee _ three advanced "Dolphin"
> > submarines to Israel.
> >
> > Israel's air force has held exercises with the United States and
> > Turkey recently.

[MCN]

The MiG-29 will be given to Poland (I will miss them) and the EF 2000 might
need some additional time until it becomes a real fighter, but then it might
become more interessting.

Best,

MCN


"robert arndt" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
om...
> "MCN" > wrote in message
>...
> > In a duel F-15 against F-4 II it isn't that big surprise, but it is well
> > known that the IAF is superior to every AF when it comes to dogfights in
> > jets.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> >
> > MCN
>
> Not necessarily. If the Germans had used the now retired MiG-29s using
> the IRST the Israelis might have lost. And, what of the new
> Eurofighter coming into use?
>
> Rob
> >
> > "Quant" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > om...
> > > This is the first Joint airforce excersie between Isael and Germany
> > > and it shows how close to each other the two countries are.
> > >
> > > Israeli pilots beat the Germans by more than 100 hits in dogfights
> > > excersie (I don't know what exactly the excersie was simulating).
> > >
> > >
> > > According ot Janes:
> > > http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/idr/idr010529_1_n.shtml
> > >
> > > Few years ago, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater
> > > recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The
> > > Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried
> > > Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's
> > > source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis
> > > prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > <
> >
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1064202589502
> > >
> > >
> > > Sep. 22, 2003
> > > Israeli airforce beats German pilots in 'dogfight' exercise
> > > By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
> > >
> > > Israeli air force pilots handily beat their German counterparts in
> > > "dogfights" in the first ever air force exercise between the two
> > > countries, an Israeli military official said Monday.
> > >
> > > The Israeli F-15 pilots, aided by special technology that Israel does
> > > not share or sell to other countries, beat the Germans by more than
> > > 100 "hits," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. In
> > > the past, Israel has beaten American air force pilots by similar
> > > margins, the officials added.
> > >
> > > Israel purchases U.S. warplanes without battle technology, installing
> > > its own locally made systems into the aircraft.
> > >
> > > The exercise was conducted over the past two weeks in the skies of
> > > Sardinia in Italy.
> > >
> > > Germany is considered one of Israel's closest defense allies.
> > > Recently, Germany sold _ for a symbolic fee _ three advanced "Dolphin"
> > > submarines to Israel.
> > >
> > > Israel's air force has held exercises with the United States and
> > > Turkey recently.