GAMIjectors

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

Has anybody here put GAMIjectors on their LYC. TIO-540? If so, how did you
like them?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
> Has anybody here put GAMIjectors on their LYC. TIO-540? If so, how did
> you like them?
>

Try 'em - if you don't like them, GAMI will refund your money in full.

Deakin says that there is something in the Lycoming that just can't be
smoothed out (the balance?). The Lycoming fuel distribution setup is pretty
good to begin with, but given the average QC, you might be pleased.

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Matt Barrow" wrote:

> The Lycoming fuel distribution setup is pretty good to begin with, but given
> the average QC, you might be pleased.

It's too uneven in mine to run LOP.

GAMI says the lean test data needed for TCMs is not needed for LYCs. The
injectors need not be matched to particular cylinders; they just send you a
set that are already flow-matched and you put 'em in.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matt Barrow" wrote:
>
>> The Lycoming fuel distribution setup is pretty good to begin with, but
>> given the average QC, you might be pleased.
>
> It's too uneven in mine to run LOP.
>
> GAMI says the lean test data needed for TCMs is not needed for LYCs. The
> injectors need not be matched to particular cylinders; they just send you
> a set that are already flow-matched and you put 'em in.
>

So, give them a try and see. If you don't like them, send them back.

I had a hangar neighbor who put them in his 2002 T182 (after hearing me blab
about them in my ex-Bo) and he was ecstatic about them. He did have some
"subconscious" hesitation about running LOP, but after a few tries he was
hooked.

Just some anecdote, his Lyc was okay to begin with, but he said that with
GAMI's it was "smooth as silk".

Take it with a grain of salt, but like I said, if they don't work, return
them.

Here's hoping!


--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

[Newps]

Matt Barrow wrote:


> I had a hangar neighbor who put them in his 2002 T182 (after hearing me blab
> about them in my ex-Bo) and he was ecstatic about them. He did have some
> "subconscious" hesitation about running LOP, but after a few tries he was
> hooked.


Yep, so did I about running LOP. I don't have GAMI's yet, may not need
them. I run LOP up to 75% and my plane is now in for it's annual. I
put six brand new Milleniums on last Septemner at the annual because I
got them for free. This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
Which I expected because I have a three year warranty on the cylinders.

[Jon Woellhaf]

"Newps" wrote
>...
> This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.

How is that possible?

[Newps]

Jon Woellhaf wrote:
> "Newps" wrote
>
>>...
>>This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
>
>
> How is that possible?



My superior engine management techniques.

[Scott Skylane]

Newps wrote:
>
>
> Jon Woellhaf wrote:
>
>> "Newps" wrote
>>
>>> ...
>>> This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
>>
>>
>>
>> How is that possible?
>
>
>
>
> My superior engine management techniques.
>
>
If you plug the compression tester into the cylinder, but forget to open
the shutoff valve, both gauges read "80".

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

[[email protected][_1_]]

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:16:54 -0600, "Jon Woellhaf"
> wrote:

>"Newps" wrote
>>...
>> This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
>
>How is that possible?
>

real simple with a wet top end and tight valves. a clapped-out R-985
will read 80/80 right up to the point when it reads 0/80 instead.

TC

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Jon Woellhaf" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Newps" wrote
>>...
>> This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
>
> How is that possible?

It's possible by NOT putting wear and stress on the rings, pistons, valves,
valve seats/guides, etc.

One thing about LOP is that not only do you NOT get lead fouling, your
cylinders have less internal pressure (and what pressure you do have is at
an optimal point in the pistons travel (you have a nice, smooth ignition at
the optimal point, not at a point where you put more stress on the
components).

When I traded in my TNIO-550 engined B36, it had 1816 hours since TBO
(recommended TBO is 1700 hrs) and the compressions were all 74-78 except
one cylinder that was 72. That 1800+ hours was all done within the past 4
1/2 years -- one thing that's deadly for engines is just sitting on the
ramp.

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:16:54 -0600, "Jon Woellhaf"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Newps" wrote
>>>...
>>> This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
>>
>>How is that possible?
>>
>
> real simple with a wet top end and tight valves. a clapped-out R-985
> will read 80/80 right up to the point when it reads 0/80 instead.
>

Kinda hard to have a wet top end in a Continental 520/550, isn't it?

[[email protected][_1_]]

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 19:12:45 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:16:54 -0600, "Jon Woellhaf"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Newps" wrote
>>>>...
>>>> This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
>>>
>>>How is that possible?
>>>
>>
>> real simple with a wet top end and tight valves. a clapped-out R-985
>> will read 80/80 right up to the point when it reads 0/80 instead.
>>
>
>Kinda hard to have a wet top end in a Continental 520/550, isn't it?
>

uh, no.

[Newps]

Scott Skylane wrote:

> Newps wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Jon Woellhaf wrote:
>>
>>> "Newps" wrote
>>>
>>>> ...
>>>> This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How is that possible?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My superior engine management techniques.
>>
>>
> If you plug the compression tester into the cylinder, but forget to open
> the shutoff valve, both gauges read "80".


>

Only one would on the ones I've used.

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 19:12:45 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> > wrote:
>
>>
> wrote in message
...
>>> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:16:54 -0600, "Jon Woellhaf"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Newps" wrote
>>>>>...
>>>>> This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
>>>>
>>>>How is that possible?
>>>>
>>>
>>> real simple with a wet top end and tight valves. a clapped-out R-985
>>> will read 80/80 right up to the point when it reads 0/80 instead.
>>>
>>
>>Kinda hard to have a wet top end in a Continental 520/550, isn't it?
>>
>
> uh, no.

Okay...so I'm misunderstanding a wet top end. Still, you inferred the
accusation that Newps was faking his compression levels, so put up or shut
up.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 7, 7:54 pm, wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:16:54 -0600, "Jon Woellhaf"
>
> > wrote:
> >"Newps" wrote
> >>...
> >> This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
>
> >How is that possible?
>
> real simple with a wet top end and tight valves. a clapped-out R-985
> will read 80/80 right up to the point when it reads 0/80 instead.
>
> TC

Never yet have I seen any 80/80 cylinder, and I do this full time.
Most of those gauges are off a little, and if they're not calibrated
they're not accurate. The highest I ever see is 79/80. The ring gaps
alone will ensure some readable leakage. If the gauges are accurate
and they read 80/80, then the orifice inside the tester is too large
and he's not getting enough pressure drop. There are two sizes of
those things, for small and large engines. Your mechanic might be
using the wrong one.

Dan

[Mike Spera]

>>>>...
>>>>This years compression check...every cylinder 80/80.
>>
>>>How is that possible?
>>
>>real simple with a wet top end and tight valves. a clapped-out R-985
>>will read 80/80 right up to the point when it reads 0/80 instead.
>>
>>TC
>
>
> Never yet have I seen any 80/80 cylinder, and I do this full time.
> Most of those gauges are off a little, and if they're not calibrated
> they're not accurate. The highest I ever see is 79/80. The ring gaps
> alone will ensure some readable leakage. If the gauges are accurate
> and they read 80/80, then the orifice inside the tester is too large
> and he's not getting enough pressure drop. There are two sizes of
> those things, for small and large engines. Your mechanic might be
> using the wrong one.
>
> Dan
>
It is not unreasonable to expect the dime store quality gauges used in
these testers to be off 1-2% or more. So, a reading of 80/80 seems quite
possible. The "true" pressures may be a bit different.

I would not get crazy over the small error/difference in one reading.
Trends seem to matter more as a measure of a cylinder's health.
Mike

[Newps]

Matt Barrow wrote:


>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>real simple with a wet top end and tight valves. a clapped-out R-985
>>>>will read 80/80 right up to the point when it reads 0/80 instead.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Kinda hard to have a wet top end in a Continental 520/550, isn't it?
>>>
>>
>>uh, no.
>
>
> Okay...so I'm misunderstanding a wet top end. Still, you inferred the
> accusation that Newps was faking his compression levels, so put up or shut
> up.
>

I'm assuming a wet top end is an engine tested that just got done
flying. My engine was cold, the mechanic towed it over to his side of
the T hangar building that morning so all cylinders were 60 degrees F

[randall g]

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 15:11:55 -0500, "Dan Luke" >
wrote:

>Has anybody here put GAMIjectors on their LYC. TIO-540? If so, how did you
>like them?

I have them on my Lyc IO-360. I am currently on my fourth iteration.
Each time I did a lean test, it was not adequate, so I emailed the
results to GAMI who then sent one to three new injectors to try. My last
test resulted in three cylinders peaking close together with #2 off, so
that was just replaced. I haven't yet checked the lean test with my new
#2 but I really hope it does the trick. This has been a bit frustrating
and has taken almost a year.

Having said that I am happy with the service from GAMI, and I still
believe they are a good idea.




randall g =%^)> PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
http://www.telemark.net/randallg
Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"randall g" wrote:

>>Has anybody here put GAMIjectors on their LYC. TIO-540? If so, how did you
>>like them?
>
> I have them on my Lyc IO-360. I am currently on my fourth iteration.
> Each time I did a lean test, it was not adequate, so I emailed the
> results to GAMI who then sent one to three new injectors to try. My last
> test resulted in three cylinders peaking close together with #2 off, so
> that was just replaced. I haven't yet checked the lean test with my new
> #2 but I really hope it does the trick. This has been a bit frustrating
> and has taken almost a year.

Ouch. I have 50% more cylinders, so it ought to take 18 mos. to get mine
right. ;)

> Having said that I am happy with the service from GAMI, and I still
> believe they are a good idea.

Thanks.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Matt Barrow wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>real simple with a wet top end and tight valves. a clapped-out R-985
>>>>>will read 80/80 right up to the point when it reads 0/80 instead.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Kinda hard to have a wet top end in a Continental 520/550, isn't it?
>>>>
>>>
>>>uh, no.
>>
>>
>> Okay...so I'm misunderstanding a wet top end. Still, you inferred the
>> accusation that Newps was faking his compression levels, so put up or
>> shut up.
>>
>
> I'm assuming a wet top end is an engine tested that just got done flying.
> My engine was cold, the mechanic towed it over to his side of the T hangar
> building that morning so all cylinders were 60 degrees F

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Matt Barrow wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>>Kinda hard to have a wet top end in a Continental 520/550, isn't it?
>>>>
>>>
>>>uh, no.
>>
>>
>> Okay...so I'm misunderstanding a wet top end. Still, you inferred the
>> accusation that Newps was faking his compression levels, so put up or
>> shut up.
>>
>
> I'm assuming a wet top end is an engine tested that just got done flying.
> My engine was cold, the mechanic towed it over to his side of the T hangar
> building that morning so all cylinders were 60 degrees F

I "assume" a wet top end is done for a radial where the oil has flowed to
every part of the engine (NOTE: I'm woeful on mechanic-speak).

IAC, my take, FWIW, is a certain jealousy that your engine, after a few
hundred hours, was reading better than these other folks engines do when
damn near new.

That an engine can run LOP without blowing up, and running many hundreds of
hours that way, and still have good compression and oil analysis is likely
disheartening to many who have to abide by the "Old Fashioned" way of
things, particularly the folks who wouldn't DARE contravene the established
ways of old.

That infidels like you and me and many others have had good results is,
well...distasteful to them! :~)

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"randall g" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 15:11:55 -0500, "Dan Luke" >
> wrote:
>
>>Has anybody here put GAMIjectors on their LYC. TIO-540? If so, how did
>>you
>>like them?
>
> I have them on my Lyc IO-360. I am currently on my fourth iteration.
> Each time I did a lean test, it was not adequate, so I emailed the
> results to GAMI who then sent one to three new injectors to try. My last
> test resulted in three cylinders peaking close together with #2 off, so
> that was just replaced. I haven't yet checked the lean test with my new
> #2 but I really hope it does the trick. This has been a bit frustrating
> and has taken almost a year.
>
> Having said that I am happy with the service from GAMI, and I still
> believe they are a good idea.
>
IIUC, you're going to have a harder go of it (getting it tuned just right)
with a small block engine as compared to a big block, like a 540/550.

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
> "randall g" wrote:
>
>>>Has anybody here put GAMIjectors on their LYC. TIO-540? If so, how did
>>>you
>>>like them?
>>
>> I have them on my Lyc IO-360. I am currently on my fourth iteration.
>> Each time I did a lean test, it was not adequate, so I emailed the
>> results to GAMI who then sent one to three new injectors to try. My last
>> test resulted in three cylinders peaking close together with #2 off, so
>> that was just replaced. I haven't yet checked the lean test with my new
>> #2 but I really hope it does the trick. This has been a bit frustrating
>> and has taken almost a year.
>
> Ouch. I have 50% more cylinders, so it ought to take 18 mos. to get mine
> right. ;)

You're still young.

Sorta.

[Newps]

Matt Barrow wrote:


>
> IAC, my take, FWIW, is a certain jealousy that your engine, after a few
> hundred hours, was reading better than these other folks engines do when
> damn near new.


I would have expected nothing less, it's under warranty.


>
> That an engine can run LOP without blowing up, and running many hundreds of
> hours that way, and still have good compression and oil analysis is likely
> disheartening to many who have to abide by the "Old Fashioned" way of
> things, particularly the folks who wouldn't DARE contravene the established
> ways of old.


Then they must drive old cars too.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 8, 10:52 am, Newps > wrote:
> Matt Barrow wrote:
>
> >>>>real simple with a wet top end and tight valves. a clapped-out R-985
> >>>>will read 80/80 right up to the point when it reads 0/80 instead.
>
> >>>Kinda hard to have a wet top end in a Continental 520/550, isn't it?
>
> >>uh, no.
>
> > Okay...so I'm misunderstanding a wet top end. Still, you inferred the
> > accusation that Newps was faking his compression levels, so put up or shut
> > up.
>
> I'm assuming a wet top end is an engine tested that just got done
> flying. My engine was cold, the mechanic towed it over to his side of
> the T hangar building that morning so all cylinders were 60 degrees F

Some guys will squirt oil into the cylinders to make the rings
seal. It's not a realistic way of testing compression, but can serve
to separate leaking rings from a cracked piston, maybe. Auto mechanics
sometimes use the trick to determine whether the loss is past the
rings or one of the valves or maybe the head gasket. With aircraft
engines, the differential test allows the mechanic to listen to the
crankcase filler for leaking rings, the exhaust for bad exhaust
valves, and the intake for a leaking intake valve. Running soapy water
over the head will find cracks in it. Older Lycs had problems with the
head cracking between the bottom sparkplug hole and the exhaust valve
seat.
Testing the compression with the engine really hot determines
the actual operating condition. The clearances between the piston and
cylinder are at a minimum and the ring gaps are smaller. We always get
worse readings if we do them cold.

Dan

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Sep 8, 10:52 am, Newps > wrote:
>> Matt Barrow wrote:
>>
>> >>>>real simple with a wet top end and tight valves. a clapped-out R-985
>> >>>>will read 80/80 right up to the point when it reads 0/80 instead.
>>
>> >>>Kinda hard to have a wet top end in a Continental 520/550, isn't it?
>>
>> >>uh, no.
>>
>> > Okay...so I'm misunderstanding a wet top end. Still, you inferred the
>> > accusation that Newps was faking his compression levels, so put up or
>> > shut
>> > up.
>>
>> I'm assuming a wet top end is an engine tested that just got done
>> flying. My engine was cold, the mechanic towed it over to his side of
>> the T hangar building that morning so all cylinders were 60 degrees F
>
> Some guys will squirt oil into the cylinders to make the rings
> seal. It's not a realistic way of testing compression, but can serve
> to separate leaking rings from a cracked piston, maybe. Auto mechanics
> sometimes use the trick to determine whether the loss is past the
> rings or one of the valves or maybe the head gasket. With aircraft
> engines, the differential test allows the mechanic to listen to the
> crankcase filler for leaking rings, the exhaust for bad exhaust
> valves, and the intake for a leaking intake valve. Running soapy water
> over the head will find cracks in it. Older Lycs had problems with the
> head cracking between the bottom sparkplug hole and the exhaust valve
> seat.
> Testing the compression with the engine really hot determines
> the actual operating condition. The clearances between the piston and
> cylinder are at a minimum and the ring gaps are smaller. We always get
> worse readings if we do them cold.
>

Thanks, Dan!

If Toecutter had been this through in his response, we might have precluded
that ****ing contest in the other, parallel thread.