The Pressure is the thing.

[The Visitor[_2_]]

So I have a friend going out to Red Deer Alberta to so some industial
air flow measurements of a sort. In his calculations he must enter the
atmospheric pressure. I thought, no problem, just get it from the metar
for Red Deer.

Red Deer is 3000 odd feet asl. If they are reporting 29.92 is the actual
pressure some three inches lower? But that is corrected for temperature.
Perhaps just use the pressure at the end, I think it is in Hectopascals
but is also corrected to Sea Level. What is the actual station pressure
he should use?

John

[The Visitor[_2_]]

Opps, meant to put this in the piloting group. Oh well, same crowd. Sorry.

The Visitor wrote:

> So I have a friend going out to Red Deer Alberta to so some industial
> air flow measurements of a sort. In his calculations he must enter the
> atmospheric pressure. I thought, no problem, just get it from the metar
> for Red Deer.
>
> Red Deer is 3000 odd feet asl. If they are reporting 29.92 is the actual
> pressure some three inches lower? But that is corrected for temperature.
> Perhaps just use the pressure at the end, I think it is in Hectopascals
> but is also corrected to Sea Level. What is the actual station pressure
> he should use?
>
> John
>

[Denny]

On Sep 12, 6:20 pm, The Visitor > wrote:
> Opps, meant to put this in the piloting group. Oh well, same crowd. Sorry.
>
>
>
> The Visitor wrote:
> > So I have a friend going out to Red Deer Alberta to so some industial
> > air flow measurements of a sort. In his calculations he must enter the
> > atmospheric pressure. I thought, no problem, just get it from the metar
> > for Red Deer.
>
> > Red Deer is 3000 odd feet asl. If they are reporting 29.92 is the actual
> > pressure some three inches lower? But that is corrected for temperature.
> > Perhaps just use the pressure at the end, I think it is in Hectopascals
> > but is also corrected to Sea Level. What is the actual station pressure
> > he should use?
>
> > John- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The volume of replies is stunning... I suspect the gang smells a
troll...
However I am full of the milk of human kindness this AM... So,here is
the answer:

Kindly purchase any version of the private pilots exam preparation
book or CD, such as that from the Kings, et. al. and all your
questions will be answered...

denny

[The Visitor[_2_]]

No, not trolling.

My friend is convinced that the altimeter setting, which is corrected to
sea level (?) would be incorrect to use. Also incorrect would be the Sea
Level Pressure listed at the end of a Metar as it is also corrected to
sea level. (Surface analysis maps also.) He needs the absolute station
pressure not corrected to anything. I told him to use that but he feels
he should be taking off three odd inches to come up with the actual
pressure. I told him that lapse rate is an average used in an air mass,
not at the bottom of an air mass along the ground. valid say if he
climbed a 1000 foot tower. But I say anytime you have a station pressure
of 26 to 27 inches you will be in a real hurricane. He says, sure, but
that is at sea level. And sure we all know at different elevations, the
air is thinner. Pilots are not equipped to get through this I guess as
he has found atpl pilots (me too) give him different answers.

I am now thinking he is right, but wrong to use the one inch per
thousand feet assumption as the atmosphere is rarely standard and it is
really just for altimeter callibrations. Yet this has some strange
implications for the barometer on my wall.

He has a ton of measuring equipment and I don't know why he doesn't just
get a guage for this to.

I was hoping for a met-whiz who actually knew what is done to the raw
data ("corrected to sea level")

Any how thanks for trying.

John



Denny wrote:
> On Sep 12, 6:20 pm, The Visitor > wrote:
>
>>Opps, meant to put this in the piloting group. Oh well, same crowd. Sorry.
>>
>>
>>
>>The Visitor wrote:
>>
>>>So I have a friend going out to Red Deer Alberta to so some industial
>>>air flow measurements of a sort. In his calculations he must enter the
>>>atmospheric pressure. I thought, no problem, just get it from the metar
>>>for Red Deer.
>>
>>>Red Deer is 3000 odd feet asl. If they are reporting 29.92 is the actual
>>>pressure some three inches lower? But that is corrected for temperature.
>>>Perhaps just use the pressure at the end, I think it is in Hectopascals
>>>but is also corrected to Sea Level. What is the actual station pressure
>>>he should use?
>>
>>>John- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> The volume of replies is stunning... I suspect the gang smells a
> troll...
> However I am full of the milk of human kindness this AM... So,here is
> the answer:
>
> Kindly purchase any version of the private pilots exam preparation
> book or CD, such as that from the Kings, et. al. and all your
> questions will be answered...
>
> denny
>

[nrp]

On Sep 13, 9:01 am, The Visitor > wrote:
> No, not trolling.
>
> My friend is convinced that the altimeter setting, which is corrected to
> sea level (?) would be incorrect to use. Also incorrect would be the Sea
> Level Pressure listed at the end of a Metar as it is also corrected to
> sea level. (Surface analysis maps also.) He needs the absolute station
> pressure not corrected to anything. I told him to use that but he feels
> he should be taking off three odd inches to come up with the actual
> pressure. I told him that lapse rate is an average used in an air mass,
> not at the bottom of an air mass along the ground. valid say if he
> climbed a 1000 foot tower. But I say anytime you have a station pressure
> of 26 to 27 inches you will be in a real hurricane. He says, sure, but
> that is at sea level. And sure we all know at different elevations, the
> air is thinner. Pilots are not equipped to get through this I guess as
> he has found atpl pilots (me too) give him different answers.
>
> I am now thinking he is right, but wrong to use the one inch per
> thousand feet assumption as the atmosphere is rarely standard and it is
> really just for altimeter callibrations. Yet this has some strange
> implications for the barometer on my wall.
>
> He has a ton of measuring equipment and I don't know why he doesn't just
> get a guage for this to.
>
> I was hoping for a met-whiz who actually knew what is done to the raw
> data ("corrected to sea level")
>
> Any how thanks for trying.
>
> John
>
> Denny wrote:
> > On Sep 12, 6:20 pm, The Visitor > wrote:
>
> >>Opps, meant to put this in the piloting group. Oh well, same crowd. Sorry.
>
> >>The Visitor wrote:
>
> >>>So I have a friend going out to Red Deer Alberta to so some industial
> >>>air flow measurements of a sort. In his calculations he must enter the
> >>>atmospheric pressure. I thought, no problem, just get it from the metar
> >>>for Red Deer.
>
> >>>Red Deer is 3000 odd feet asl. If they are reporting 29.92 is the actual
> >>>pressure some three inches lower? But that is corrected for temperature.
> >>>Perhaps just use the pressure at the end, I think it is in Hectopascals
> >>>but is also corrected to Sea Level. What is the actual station pressure
> >>>he should use?
>
> >>>John- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>- Show quoted text -
>
> > The volume of replies is stunning... I suspect the gang smells a
> > troll...
> > However I am full of the milk of human kindness this AM... So,here is
> > the answer:
>
> > Kindly purchase any version of the private pilots exam preparation
> > book or CD, such as that from the Kings, et. al. and all your
> > questions will be answered...
>
> > denny

You will have to work with the pressures given in a standard
atmosphere table that you can get from any engineering text. The
altimeter setting only gives the deviation from the standard
pressure. It assumes 29.92 inches at the standard pressure.
Deviations are proportional (I think).

[Al G[_1_]]

"The Visitor" > wrote in message
...
> No, not trolling.
>
> My friend is convinced that the altimeter setting, which is corrected to
> sea level (?) would be incorrect to use. Also incorrect would be the Sea
> Level Pressure listed at the end of a Metar as it is also corrected to sea
> level. (Surface analysis maps also.) He needs the absolute station
> pressure not corrected to anything. I told him to use that but he feels he
> should be taking off three odd inches to come up with the actual pressure.
> I told him that lapse rate is an average used in an air mass, not at the
> bottom of an air mass along the ground. valid say if he climbed a 1000
> foot tower. But I say anytime you have a station pressure of 26 to 27
> inches you will be in a real hurricane. He says, sure, but that is at sea
> level. And sure we all know at different elevations, the air is thinner.
> Pilots are not equipped to get through this I guess as he has found atpl
> pilots (me too) give him different answers.
>
> I am now thinking he is right, but wrong to use the one inch per thousand
> feet assumption as the atmosphere is rarely standard and it is really just
> for altimeter callibrations. Yet this has some strange implications for
> the barometer on my wall.
>
> He has a ton of measuring equipment and I don't know why he doesn't just
> get a guage for this to.
>
> I was hoping for a met-whiz who actually knew what is done to the raw data
> ("corrected to sea level")
>
> Any how thanks for trying.
>
> John
>
>
>
> Denny wrote:
>> On Sep 12, 6:20 pm, The Visitor > wrote:
>>
>>>Opps, meant to put this in the piloting group. Oh well, same crowd.
>>>Sorry.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The Visitor wrote:
>>>
>>>>So I have a friend going out to Red Deer Alberta to so some industial
>>>>air flow measurements of a sort. In his calculations he must enter the
>>>>atmospheric pressure. I thought, no problem, just get it from the metar
>>>>for Red Deer.
>>>
>>>>Red Deer is 3000 odd feet asl. If they are reporting 29.92 is the actual
>>>>pressure some three inches lower? But that is corrected for temperature.
>>>>Perhaps just use the pressure at the end, I think it is in Hectopascals
>>>>but is also corrected to Sea Level. What is the actual station pressure
>>>>he should use?
>>>
>>>>John- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>
>> The volume of replies is stunning... I suspect the gang smells a
>> troll...
>> However I am full of the milk of human kindness this AM... So,here is
>> the answer:
>>
>> Kindly purchase any version of the private pilots exam preparation
>> book or CD, such as that from the Kings, et. al. and all your
>> questions will be answered...
>>
>> denny
>>
>

Walk out to any aircraft with a constant speed prop. Read the Manifold
Pressure Gauge without starting the engine. At your altitude, normally
around 27".

Al G

[Mike Noel]

Do those MP gauges ever get calibrated? If not then the readings will
probably not be very accurate.
--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

A frog in a well does not know the great sea.
"Al G" > wrote in message
...
>
> "The Visitor" > wrote in message
> ...
>> No, not trolling.
>>
>> My friend is convinced that the altimeter setting, which is corrected to
>> sea level (?) would be incorrect to use. Also incorrect would be the Sea
>> Level Pressure listed at the end of a Metar as it is also corrected to
>> sea level. (Surface analysis maps also.) He needs the absolute station
>> pressure not corrected to anything. I told him to use that but he feels
>> he should be taking off three odd inches to come up with the actual
>> pressure. I told him that lapse rate is an average used in an air mass,
>> not at the bottom of an air mass along the ground. valid say if he
>> climbed a 1000 foot tower. But I say anytime you have a station pressure
>> of 26 to 27 inches you will be in a real hurricane. He says, sure, but
>> that is at sea level. And sure we all know at different elevations, the
>> air is thinner. Pilots are not equipped to get through this I guess as he
>> has found atpl pilots (me too) give him different answers.
>>
>> I am now thinking he is right, but wrong to use the one inch per thousand
>> feet assumption as the atmosphere is rarely standard and it is really
>> just for altimeter callibrations. Yet this has some strange implications
>> for the barometer on my wall.
>>
>> He has a ton of measuring equipment and I don't know why he doesn't just
>> get a guage for this to.
>>
>> I was hoping for a met-whiz who actually knew what is done to the raw
>> data ("corrected to sea level")
>>
>> Any how thanks for trying.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> Denny wrote:
>>> On Sep 12, 6:20 pm, The Visitor > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Opps, meant to put this in the piloting group. Oh well, same crowd.
>>>>Sorry.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Visitor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>So I have a friend going out to Red Deer Alberta to so some industial
>>>>>air flow measurements of a sort. In his calculations he must enter the
>>>>>atmospheric pressure. I thought, no problem, just get it from the
>>>>>metar
>>>>>for Red Deer.
>>>>
>>>>>Red Deer is 3000 odd feet asl. If they are reporting 29.92 is the
>>>>>actual
>>>>>pressure some three inches lower? But that is corrected for
>>>>>temperature.
>>>>>Perhaps just use the pressure at the end, I think it is in Hectopascals
>>>>>but is also corrected to Sea Level. What is the actual station pressure
>>>>>he should use?
>>>>
>>>>>John- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>
>>> The volume of replies is stunning... I suspect the gang smells a
>>> troll...
>>> However I am full of the milk of human kindness this AM... So,here is
>>> the answer:
>>>
>>> Kindly purchase any version of the private pilots exam preparation
>>> book or CD, such as that from the Kings, et. al. and all your
>>> questions will be answered...
>>>
>>> denny
>>>
>>
>
> Walk out to any aircraft with a constant speed prop. Read the Manifold
> Pressure Gauge without starting the engine. At your altitude, normally
> around 27".
>
> Al G
>
>

[The Visitor[_2_]]

I'm not there now, but that is very interesting.
Man this was tricky.

John

Al G wrote:

Walk out to any aircraft with a constant speed prop. Read the Manifold
> Pressure Gauge without starting the engine. At your altitude, normally
> around 27".
>
> Al G

[[email protected]]

On Sep 12, 4:18 pm, The Visitor > wrote:
> So I have a friend going out to Red Deer Alberta to so some industial
> air flow measurements of a sort. In his calculations he must enter the
> atmospheric pressure. I thought, no problem, just get it from the metar
> for Red Deer.
>
> Red Deer is 3000 odd feet asl. If they are reporting 29.92 is the actual
> pressure some three inches lower? But that is corrected for temperature.
> Perhaps just use the pressure at the end, I think it is in Hectopascals
> but is also corrected to Sea Level. What is the actual station pressure
> he should use?
>
> John

Red deer is at 2968'.

Your friend could take a good barometer to Vancouver or some
other coastal city, calibrate it to a known barometer at a weather
office or flight service station there, then take it to Red Deer and
read actual barometric pressure. When I moved here to Alberta from BC
I had to recalibrate my barometer to correct it to what the sea level
pressure would be at this location.
Or he could go visit the guys in the FSS at Red Deer; they
might be able to give him an actual pressure off their instruments.
Their barometers are calibrated to SLP but they might have an actual-
pressure instrument there, too. I've been in their tower (at the
terminal building) but haven't taken note of what they have.

Dan