Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
>From: "Dave Clark"
>Date: 10/10/03 3:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>"Angels Eight -- Normandy Air War Diary" by David W Clark
>
>Many are surprised to learn that the fierce battle in the skies over the
>Normandy beaches was much like the Battle of Britain -- both in duration,
>about 80 days, and in severity, about 3,000 aircraft shot down. Squadron
>records of German and Allied units in the Normandy Campaign reveal details
>of nearly every aerial encounter that occurred and the pilots who flew them.
>In addition, read about the day-to-day lives of the members of one RAF
>Commonwealth wing operating from French soil as described from squadron
>records and in the words of their pilots' combat reports. This is a book
>filled with factual detail written by one whose brother fought and died in
>the Normandy Air War.
>
>Read all about it and order it from:
>
> http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/14969


Well ok if you say so. But I Never saw a single German plane over Omaha beach
as the invasion took place.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Keith Willshaw]

"Dave Clark" > wrote in message
...
> "Angels Eight -- Normandy Air War Diary" by David W Clark
>
> Many are surprised to learn that the fierce battle in the skies over the
> Normandy beaches was much like the Battle of Britain -- both in duration,
> about 80 days, and in severity, about 3,000 aircraft shot down. Squadron
> records of German and Allied units in the Normandy Campaign reveal details
> of nearly every aerial encounter that occurred and the pilots who flew
them.
> In addition, read about the day-to-day lives of the members of one RAF
> Commonwealth wing operating from French soil as described from squadron
> records and in the words of their pilots' combat reports. This is a book
> filled with factual detail written by one whose brother fought and died in
> the Normandy Air War.
>
> Read all about it and order it from:
>
> http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/14969
>

I can believe it readily enough

Between January 1944 and the end of May the Luftwaffe lost
over 6400 day fighters, 80% of them on the western front and
the Reich

Between June and October losses soared to almost 7500 with
6500 being lost to US and Commonwealth forces.

You may also want to look at

The Luftwaffe, 1933-45: Strategy for Defeat
(Brassey's Commemorative Series, Wwii)
by Williamson Murray


Keith


It was
after all part of the allied strategy to draw the Luftwaffe into Battle
and destroy it

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
>From: "Keith Willshaw"
>Date: 10/10/03 1:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Dave Clark" > wrote in message
...
>> "Angels Eight -- Normandy Air War Diary" by David W Clark
>>
>> Many are surprised to learn that the fierce battle in the skies over the
>> Normandy beaches was much like the Battle of Britain -- both in duration,
>> about 80 days, and in severity, about 3,000 aircraft shot down. Squadron
>> records of German and Allied units in the Normandy Campaign reveal details
>> of nearly every aerial encounter that occurred and the pilots who flew
>them.
>> In addition, read about the day-to-day lives of the members of one RAF
>> Commonwealth wing operating from French soil as described from squadron
>> records and in the words of their pilots' combat reports. This is a book
>> filled with factual detail written by one whose brother fought and died in
>> the Normandy Air War.
>>
>> Read all about it and order it from:
>>
>> http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/14969
>>
>
>I can believe it readily enough
>
>Between January 1944 and the end of May the Luftwaffe lost
>over 6400 day fighters, 80% of them on the western front and
>the Reich
>
>Between June and October losses soared to almost 7500 with
>6500 being lost to US and Commonwealth forces.
>
>You may also want to look at
>
>The Luftwaffe, 1933-45: Strategy for Defeat
>(Brassey's Commemorative Series, Wwii)
>by Williamson Murray
>
>
>Keith
>
>
> It was
>after all part of the allied strategy to draw the Luftwaffe into Battle
>and destroy it
>
>
All over Normandy???? I seriously doubt it. There was barely a German plane
in sight over Normandy.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
>From: "Keith Willshaw"
>Date: 10/10/03 1:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id:

>Many are surprised to learn that the fierce battle in the skies over the
>> Normandy beaches was much like the Battle of Britain -- both in duration,

Not just surprised...SHOCKED ! I was over Normandy and there wasn't a German
plane in sight over Omaha Beach from dawn to dusk. We flew two missions that
day and never saw the Luftwaffe anywhere..

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Keith Willshaw]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
> >From: "Keith Willshaw"
> >Date: 10/10/03 1:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"Dave Clark" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Angels Eight -- Normandy Air War Diary" by David W Clark
> >>
> >> Many are surprised to learn that the fierce battle in the skies over
the
> >> Normandy beaches was much like the Battle of Britain -- both in
duration,
> >> about 80 days, and in severity, about 3,000 aircraft shot down.
Squadron
> >> records of German and Allied units in the Normandy Campaign reveal
details
> >> of nearly every aerial encounter that occurred and the pilots who flew
> >them.
> >> In addition, read about the day-to-day lives of the members of one RAF
> >> Commonwealth wing operating from French soil as described from squadron
> >> records and in the words of their pilots' combat reports. This is a
book
> >> filled with factual detail written by one whose brother fought and died
in
> >> the Normandy Air War.
> >>
> >> Read all about it and order it from:
> >>
> >> http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/14969
> >>
> >
> >I can believe it readily enough
> >
> >Between January 1944 and the end of May the Luftwaffe lost
> >over 6400 day fighters, 80% of them on the western front and
> >the Reich
> >
> >Between June and October losses soared to almost 7500 with
> >6500 being lost to US and Commonwealth forces.
> >
> >You may also want to look at
> >
> >The Luftwaffe, 1933-45: Strategy for Defeat
> >(Brassey's Commemorative Series, Wwii)
> >by Williamson Murray
> >
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> > It was
> >after all part of the allied strategy to draw the Luftwaffe into Battle
> >and destroy it
> >
> >
> All over Normandy???? I seriously doubt it. There was barely a German
plane
> in sight over Normandy.
>

Art the book is about the Normandy campaign which includes
a 3 month period over the entire western european theatre

The reason there were no fighters overhead on D-Day,
and as an infantryman on the beaches my dad was looking
for em, was the air campaign that lead up to the invasion.

A campaign in which you played a part as I recall :)

Keith

[Dave Clark]

"Angels Eight -- Normandy Air War Diary" by David W Clark

Many are surprised to learn that the fierce battle in the skies over the
Normandy beaches was much like the Battle of Britain -- both in duration,
about 80 days, and in severity, about 3,000 aircraft shot down. Squadron
records of German and Allied units in the Normandy Campaign reveal details
of nearly every aerial encounter that occurred and the pilots who flew them.
In addition, read about the day-to-day lives of the members of one RAF
Commonwealth wing operating from French soil as described from squadron
records and in the words of their pilots' combat reports. This is a book
filled with factual detail written by one whose brother fought and died in
the Normandy Air War.

Read all about it and order it from:

http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/14969

[MLenoch]

During this time, British Navy Grumman Hellcats engaged and shot down several
enemy aircraft. These were the only recorded Hellcat victories in the ETO.
These engagements occurred somewhere south of the Normandy operational areas.
VL

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
>From: "Keith Willshaw"
>Date: 10/10/03 2:17 PM Pacific

>Art the book is about the Normandy campaign which includes
>a 3 month period over the entire western european theatre


That is what I don't understand. We were awarded little pins called battle
stars to pin on out theatre (ETO) ribbons. We had battle stars for D-Day, The
Po Valley, TheCentral Appennines,Central Europe, and the Bulge. I never heard
of battles going on on all over europe being lumped together and all called
Normandy. If that were the case we would have gotten one star for Normandy and
saved all that other scrap metal. Right?



>A campaign in which you played a part as I recall :)
>
>Keith

Yeah. I sort of remember that one. (:->)

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Keith Willshaw]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
> >From: "Keith Willshaw"
> >Date: 10/10/03 2:17 PM Pacific
>
> >Art the book is about the Normandy campaign which includes
> >a 3 month period over the entire western european theatre
>
>
> That is what I don't understand. We were awarded little pins called battle
> stars to pin on out theatre (ETO) ribbons. We had battle stars for D-Day,
The
> Po Valley, TheCentral Appennines,Central Europe, and the Bulge. I never
heard
> of battles going on on all over europe being lumped together and all
called
> Normandy. If that were the case we would have gotten one star for Normandy
and
> saved all that other scrap metal. Right?
>

Thats pretty much what happened in the British and Commonwealth
forces , in fact they went further, my father went ashore on D-Day
and slogged his way up through Belgium and Holland ending up
around Hamburg for which he got the France and Germany Star
to add to his Italy and African Stars and Dunqerque medal

Keith

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
>From: "Keith Willshaw"
>Date: 10/11/03 4:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>> >Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
>> >From: "Keith Willshaw"
>> >Date: 10/10/03 2:17 PM Pacific
>>
>> >Art the book is about the Normandy campaign which includes
>> >a 3 month period over the entire western european theatre
>>
>>
>> That is what I don't understand. We were awarded little pins called battle
>> stars to pin on out theatre (ETO) ribbons. We had battle stars for D-Day,
>The
>> Po Valley, TheCentral Appennines,Central Europe, and the Bulge. I never
>heard
>> of battles going on on all over europe being lumped together and all
>called
>> Normandy. If that were the case we would have gotten one star for Normandy
>and
>> saved all that other scrap metal. Right?
>>
>
>Thats pretty much what happened in the British and Commonwealth
>forces , in fact they went further, my father went ashore on D-Day
>and slogged his way up through Belgium and Holland ending up
>around Hamburg for which he got the France and Germany Star
>to add to his Italy and African Stars and Dunqerque medal
>
>Keith
>
>

Interesting to hear how the Brits did it. Thanks. Is your dad still around. If
so give him my best. Where was he in Belgium? I was up in Florennes surrounded
by Brits. Maybe we met there.Who knows? (grin)

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Keith Willshaw]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary

>
> Interesting to hear how the Brits did it. Thanks. Is your dad still
around. If
> so give him my best.

No he passed away in 1982

> Where was he in Belgium? I was up in Florennes surrounded
> by Brits. Maybe we met there.Who knows? (grin)
>

He was in that region , they took Brussels on the break
out from Normandy before joing the drive towards Antwerp
and then Arnhem.

During the Battle of the Bulge his unit was moved to the Dinant
area where along with American forces they blocked the German
path to the Meuse.

On the 23rd of December they captured a jeep load of Germans
dressed as Americans driving a captured jeep. They apparently
didnt realise this section of the front was held by Briitish troops.

Keith

[Kimmo Mikkonen]

>Not just surprised...SHOCKED ! I was over Normandy and there wasn't a
German
>plane in sight over Omaha Beach from dawn to dusk. We flew two missions
that
>day and never saw the Luftwaffe anywhere..

I seem to recall that there was Luftwaffe going TO Normandy beaches, but
most of them never reaching it, and the numbers were, well to put it mildly
insufficient. And It was propably in allied interests too to have enough
Fighters outside landing zones to keep them away. mr.Hitler didn't really
believe such a place was the actual landing site, just a minor decoy :)

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
>From: "Keith Willshaw"
>Date: 10/11/03 6:52 AM Pacifi

>He was in that region , they took Brussels on the break
>out from Normandy before joing the drive towards Antwerp
>and then Arnhem.

I was one of the bombardirs that took out the bridge at Arnhem a few weeks
aftere the battle since the Germans were using it to reinforce an island in the
river.

>During the Battle of the Bulge his unit was moved to the Dinant
>area where along with American forces they blocked the German
>path to the Meuse.

I know Dinant well and spent a good deal of time there. Was your dad with XXX
th corps? Those guys were all over that area and I knew many of them..

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Keith Willshaw]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
> >From: "Keith Willshaw"
> >Date: 10/11/03 6:52 AM Pacifi
>
> >He was in that region , they took Brussels on the break
> >out from Normandy before joing the drive towards Antwerp
> >and then Arnhem.
>
> I was one of the bombardirs that took out the bridge at Arnhem a few weeks
> aftere the battle since the Germans were using it to reinforce an island
in the
> river.
>
> >During the Battle of the Bulge his unit was moved to the Dinant
> >area where along with American forces they blocked the German
> >path to the Meuse.
>
> I know Dinant well and spent a good deal of time there. Was your dad with
XXX
> th corps? Those guys were all over that area and I knew many of them..
>
>

Yes he was with the 6th Batallion Green Howards

Keith

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
>From: "Keith Willshaw"
>Date: 10/11/03 1:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>> >Subject: Re: Angels Eight - Normandy Air War Diary
>> >From: "Keith Willshaw"
>> >Date: 10/11/03 6:52 AM Pacifi
>>
>> >He was in that region , they took Brussels on the break
>> >out from Normandy before joing the drive towards Antwerp
>> >and then Arnhem.
>>
>> I was one of the bombardirs that took out the bridge at Arnhem a few weeks
>> aftere the battle since the Germans were using it to reinforce an island
>in the
>> river.
>>
>> >During the Battle of the Bulge his unit was moved to the Dinant
>> >area where along with American forces they blocked the German
>> >path to the Meuse.
>>
>> I know Dinant well and spent a good deal of time there. Was your dad with
>XXX
>> th corps? Those guys were all over that area and I knew many of them..
>>
>>
>
>Yes he was with the 6th Batallion Green Howards
>
>Keith
>
>
..
Who knows, we might have had a beer together in Dinant. Good old XXXth Corps.
They covered the Meuse in that area like a tent. (grin)

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer